Greetings, I am considering the purchase of a 1990 Cat D4C Series II with SN 1RJ01210, but it is currently running rough and smoking as seen in the video below. The seller bought it from a farm where it was well maintained. Caterpillar recently replaced the brake bands and steering clutches. Not long after, the dozer started having this issue, and they also replaced the injectors and had the fuel pump redone at a reputable diesel shop. Unfortunately, the issue still persists. The seller states that the fuel pump makes good pressure, although I have not verified this myself. The seller recently got married and doesn't have time to fool with it anymore. He was going to pull the head next and check valves. There is no metalic flake in the oil that can be seen, and there is nothing foreign in the crankcase oil or the radiator coolant. It turns right over when started and seems to have good compression, but it just runs rough. This is one of the newer style 3204 DI engines with the fuel pump on the right side. Are there any suggestions on what else could be checked before digging into the head and valves, or does that seem to be the logical next step? I can get a decent deal on this machine and I'm willing to pursue this issue within reason. Thanks in advance! IMG_1012.MOV
I would guess a head gasket blown between 2 cylinders. Crack injector lines I'll bet you will find two cylinders that don't make much difference when lines are cracked
Will do, thanks! Any other likely causes to look for?
Only other thing to check is remove valve cover and make sure rocker shaft isn't broke
Something I noticed when I was out there is that the paint on the head is discolored where you see the left arrow below vs. normal yellow color as seen by where the right arrow is pointing. I assume that excess heat can cause this. With discoloration in this area, could that lend to the theory that it may have a blown head gasket between cylinders? I will be with the machine tomorrow and do some testing with backing off fuel lines to see what difference it makes. I went ahead and ordered a new Cat head gasket too. I should also mention that this machine appears to only have around 4500 hours and the hour meter looks to be original. She might be a relatively low hour machine.
This is where I’ve seen gasket blow and cause a problem like you have I always suspected either had something to do with it
Yeah, that makes sense. I'll definitely let you know what I find once I get the head off. Do you think the disolloration is related somehow?
In your experience with Cat 3204's, what is the likelihood that just a head gasket could be blown vs. other issues, such as a cracked head, that are the root cause of the issue? My current plan is just to go pull the head, do a quick visual check, and reinstall with a new head gasket if I don't see anything obvious wrong with the head. I realize that I wouldn't be able to see a hairline crack in the head, and this may be a gamble. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this approach vs. taking the head to a machine shop for proper inspection. Are these 3204's prone to blowing head gaskets when no other root issues are present? Thanks in advance and happy Thanksgiving!
No blowing head gasket is not common I think you should crack the injection lines first to make sure you have two weak holes side by side also check for broken rocker usually a cracked head will give you compression in radiator
will do, thanks
If you take a torch, you can with the head sideways warm between the valves and often if there is a crack it will be exposed. Don't overheat just warm especially where it is thinnest between the valves. Found quite a few cracks like that. Best to check the cylinders by cracking the fuel lines like " pittsburg cat man " stated. That would be cheap diagnostics and may give a better idea about what is going on inside. Simon C
I did some testing on it and need some guidance, please. The day it was delivered to my property, it fired right up and was blowing the white smoke like in the first video I posted. It died and we couldn't get it restarted, so we towed it onto my property. I assumed it ran out of fuel and have added more fuel to it, but I still can't get it started. I have cracked the fuel lines and she is getting fuel to the top nut on the fuel line. I took off the exhaust manifold so I could see if it was blowing smoke differently from any of the cylinders. It is puffing white smoke out of the two left cylinder exhaust ports, but not the two on the right. Does this help to confirm that perhaps there is a blown head gasket between these two cylinders? Or, is it possible the pencil injectors aren't getting fuel all the way to them? If the later, what is the best way to test this? Thanks in advance!
Crack all 4 lines on top of pump {service assembly) pump hand pump till you get fuel at service assembly crank engine with them still cracked as they start pumping fuel tighten the ones that are pumping fuel on a engine with no problems it will probably start before you get them all tight does the white smoke smell like fuel??
Interestingly, I tried the hand pump yesterday and it wasn't working, so I replaced it with a new oem one today. The new oem hand pump wasn't pushing fuel through cracked lines on top of the fuel pump. Makes me wonder if there could be a restriction somewhere in the fuel system. I have heard of these little dozers getting a lot of residue in the fuel tank. I might try to blow air into the main fuel line coming from the fuel tank tomorrow just to rule out a restriction at the tank or main fuel line coming from tank. I should also mention that the previous owner put aftermarket injectors in this machine when he was trying to figure out this issue. He had no change or improvement after he did so. I do have the original cat injectors.
might be a good idea to shut valve off on bottom of tank remove line crack valve and see if you get any fuel usually if they plug it at the valve
Will do, I plan to spend most of the day tomorrow working on it. I'm kind of halfway tempted to just pull the head tomorrow. Do you think that would be jumping the gun too much?
yes i think it would be better to get it running and see if you have dead holes there is probably a t on top of service assembly that is capped on one end might want to put a gauge on there and see if you have any fuel pressure
Sounds good, I will report back my findings after I work on it tomorrow
Once head is off the troubleshooting ends. Finish all the testing as pittsburg cat man said. Simon C
Roger that. I'm going to spend some time troubleshooting tomorrow and will report the results.
OK, now we are getting somewhere! I cracked the fuel line coming into the filter housing and fuel was just dripping there, so I knew it wasn't getting enough fuel from the tank. I blew air into this line and heard it bubble back into the tank. Then fuel started flowing normally from the fuel line into the filter housing. From there, I bled all of the fuel lines and got her started. She runs just like before. She is blowing white smoke and running rough. With the exhaust manifold off I could see that the white smoke was only coming from cylinders 1 & 2. Cylinders 3 & 4 were blowing no smoke. I also cracked the fuel lines on 1 & 2 and it made no difference in how it ran. But, when I cracked 3 o4 4 she wanted to die. Please see link below to the video and pictures that show the exhaust ports. In this picture, it can be seen that ports 3 & 4 are dry and ports 1 & 2 are wet. The liquid smells like unburned diesel. Please share your thoughts on these findings. Video clip here: IMG_1092.MOV
Pull top of valve cover make sure rocker shaft isn’t broken if it’s still good I would say head needs to come off one other thing there is a rubber seal with a hose clamp you should replace it too. When you have the head off
I finally got video to quit spooling rockers seem good time to pull head
OK, I'll try to get the head off one day this week and report back. I ordered that rubber seal and all new gaskets. I should have everything I need. FYI, I did sit in it for a while and watched the rockers. They seem good.
Well, Pittsburgh Cat Man, it looks like I owe you a beer. I pulled the head today, and just as you said, the head gasket was blown between cylinders 1 & 2. See pictures below. I got the head to the bench and got it cleaned up pretty good. The head, cylinder walls, and pistons all look to be in great shape. I am going to try to put it back on tomorrow and will report back with the results.
watch buffing the injectors not a good idea
Roger that, I did my best to avoid them.
3M bristle discs are better to use than the roloc discs as they tend to wear less steel out off of the heads surface. You don't want to wear any out but the bristle discs are safer. Hours on the unit should determine if the injectors need to be looked at. Simon C
yes sir, I did most by hand and then used white roloc very sparingly. I learned that they had recently put new Cat injectors in. It was still having the issue running rough, so the guy I bought it from put some aftermarket injectors in it to try to rule that out. The issue persisted because, as we know now, it was a blown head gasket. So... I have a very new set of Cat injectors I plan to put back in it. I left the aftermarket ones in there for now, but will swap them out soon.
That is good information, and better with OEM injectors if at all possible. Have seen too many cheap injectors take out cylinder walls or tops of pistons. Simon C
Nice that the former owner helped you to find the problem and bought the aftermarket injectors. Most would say sorry, sold as is.
I'm happy to report that I got the head put back on today and got her running. She runs really great. No blowby or smoke, and purrs like a kitten at low idle. BIG thanks to the folks who helped guide me. Your feedback was instrumental and greatly appreciated! Video of 3204 running at low idle here: IMG_1130.MOV Pictures from assembly:
Sounds good by the way I like the chrome stack
For those who may stumble across this thread later on, I'm posting pictures of the special instructions pages that were included with the new Cat head gasket (7W-2059). Be advised that this is an improved design over previous versions. There is also a new bolt tightening procedure outlined in the instructions. Thankfully, my engine had the newer version bolts, and I was able to use the higher torque value.
Thanks! I'll post a follow up video once I get everything put back together and the chrome shined up a bit!
I remember that
Being from 1990 I would guess any respectable mechanics/shops would know of the upgraded bolts and torque specs. Good to know for anybody with an older machine needing engine work.
It's refreshing to see an older machine brought back to life with simple methodical detective work without having to employ ET and deal with all the electronic crap. Well done gentlemen!
Here is a pic of the old gal all put back together and shined up a little bit. Thanks again to all who assisted! I'll post a video soon. She is running like a top. No smoke at all.
Glad to hear that it's working fine for you. I see the Fabco sticker on it. They are the Cat dealer in Wisconsin. Now they are called Fabick Cat as that is the family that is the Cat dealer in several states, they just called themselves Fabco in a few states, Wi for sure. FWD
Looks good a long time ago we had a customer who had chrome stacks on all his machines always made them easy to find in the yard
A chrome stack on my TD9-H
Odd carrier roller placement on the TD15.
I have a brochure for a 1975 TD15-C that shows the carrier rollers just like my picture. FWD
Very good shape and straight Impressive for a machine with sweeps
Not sure if the one closest to the sprocket is really needed. Maybe it helps the track come on and off the sprocket smoothly if the track is a little loose?? It's just different but maybe it's better.