Looking at a 1998 Cat with 5000 hours on it. No big repairs have been made outside of new track rollers. I have a friend that has same dozer that burned and it has new tracks and sprockets. That I can get for salvage price of dozer. Hoping to get dozer for 49,000 if it checks out with a cat tech. This a good price for a good dozer. Trying to see what price range I need to be in. Thanks
I purchased a 2005 D5G for $45K. Came with a 30 day warranty. UC about 65%, 7000 hours open cab. I hope this helps.
Sounds like a heck of a deal to me, those are good machines but not really comparable to a D-5g.
As I recall the M series machines were high drive. They all were prone to electrical and electronic problems. Most of the time when I looked at them the undercarriage was worn out or there were a pile of codes coming up on the monitor panel. Actual value of the machine requires an inspection and assessment of condition. You can search prices on Machinery Trader for ball park ranges.
Thanks guys for your replies.
I have read where cat had a repair on the center pivot bearing for the blade. Can anyone explain to me how to tell if this repair has been made on this machines. Here is a photo of the area.
Ditto JPV. A D5G is a much smaller/ lower powered machine. Not even close. I've had very good luck with my 2001 D5M. Owned since new. There's a reason why it's hard to find a low hour D5M. They don't break with reasonable care and those who own them tend to hold onto them. Most of the time a dozer that is over 100 hp will outlast a smaller machine by 2:1.
On the center pivot repair I don't know how you can tell if it has been done other then to look at the welds on the spherical bearing to the blade and see if they don't look factory. If you don't have any vertical slop in that joint that is good. They get pretty bad, you will know when it is time but it is not easy to get the big vertical pin out. It pretty much comes out in pieces. I would highly encourage regular greasing of all the blade joints but especially that one, you really don't want to mess with it if possible.
I drove it and couldn’t see any slack in the blade, the machine was tight. Cylinders were leaking a little that pick the blade up. I’m really thinking wanting to buy it but was concerned about the pivot bearing.
It would be hard to tell from the photo. You should look for any traces of chrome plating on the outside surfaces of both pins I think this is the mod you are referring to. According to the article it applied from S/N 3RD00248, approx 30 machines after yours. It's fair to assume that you still have the old-style pins installed.
Well I’m going take him a check Monday. I think it’s the original pins also. This has been the best looking dozer I have looked at. I know nothing about a dozer but I can learn. Wanting to fix up some family land that I own. Haul a little gravel for folks and myself. Build some roads and clean up some old roads. Any advice on what not to do with this dozer? I have an excavator and grease it every 10 hours. Thinking this dozer should be greased the same. Any advice would be appreciated. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/341625314692136/
I would avoid clearing big trees and brush if possible. These machines weren't really designed for that. Sure, you can nock over a 12" pine tree and push on light brush. Much more (18" oak) and you asking for trouble. These machines are more suited to finish grading. I have had good success with mine. Make sure all the maintenance is up to date. Valve train/injector adjustment recommended around 2-3k hours on the 3116. Takes special tools and knowledgeable Cat mechanic.
If there isn't an Operatrion & Maintenance Manual in the pocket behind the seat I would suggest to get one ASAP. You can download a genuine OEM Manual from the Cat interweb for $50. If you want to know how just ask.
Here is a pic of mine that was upgraded a few years back. Looks like yours was also. Kevin
BigbudsR67 really new to dozers, what are you comparing in photos?
Ricky, you can see my center pivot bearing that has been replaced to the new upgrade. The old one was a cone style that just broke apart and you could move the blade . From your pic looks like yours has been upgraded to. I have 5169 hrs on mine. Next new tracks and extended. feel free to reach out to me on any questions. [email protected]
I owned a 2001 D5M LGP. Put 3000 hours on it with zero issues. Cleared a lot of land, took big trees down by angling and tilting the blade to first cut the roots then the tree went down no problem. Finger tip steering worked great. I could probably freeze meat solid with the air conditioning. Great dozer!
Just talked to the guy who owned it prior to the guy I purchased from. Said the upgrade was done by him.(Bigbudsr67 you nailed it) Told me he was second owner and when he sold the dozer had 4000 hours. He said up until the time it left him it was serviced regularly. I purchased dozer for 50,000 and hope it give me years of trouble free hours. I am just a landowner so I know I want be rough with it. It’s hard to think something 25 years old is still worth that but from looking on line a lot of 5m’s are selling for 50,000 with a lot more hours. I’m going look for a hard copy operation and maintenance book. Hopefully find one at a reasonable price. Thanks for all the help and I’m sure I will have some questions in the future
Can someone explain what might be causing this leak and how it would be fixed. It looks like a idler but personally I really don’t know. Thanks
You have various options to get hold of an O&M. 1. Call your Cat dealer and ask for a price on SEBU6901. You can see the list price on the illustration below. (They may quote you slightly higher because the price shown below does not include S&H.) 2. Search the usual online marketplaces for used copies of SEBU6901. 3. Buy one online from Cat Publications at https://catpublications.com/ Example for sale online......... https://www.ebay.com/itm/313374116370
It's Section A-A in the illustration. The cover/retainer #31 for the Track Adjuster & Recoil Group. First thing would be to clean around it and check for loose bolts. There is no gasket or seal behind that cover. I suggest to NOT attempt to completely remove the cover without first releasing the track tensioner just to be on the safe side.
That cap is a key for the idler slide ,it keeps the idler from rotating. the oil is from the adjuster housing if you pull the key about a gallon of oil will drain out. There is another one on the inside of the track frame. If it leaks bad enough, you can pull the key buy removing the 6 bolts and clean the puller holes out using 2 bolts in the puller holes. Any kind of sealer will work. You don't have to release the track tensioner. Bob
Bluox so remove the six bolts, you are losing me on cleaning the puller holes out with 2 bolts. Can you elaborate on this process please. Also Nige is saying no gasket or sealer there so what keeps it from leaking? You also recommend I put a sealer on it to keep from leaking. Also where do you add the oil back in? Nige I have no way to look at a cd. I have my phone and iPad so I really need a hard copy. The numbers you posted are correct for a hard copy manual?
Yes they are. The document reference number does not change whatever the format of the manual is. Personally I would call the local dealer branch first and ask for the price. The cap/key #31 is an extremely snug fit in the bore in the track frame. If everything is in good shape it should not leak (they normally don't), that's why no gasket or sealer is listed for that joint. You can use whatever sealant you like if cleaning and then reassembly with the bolts correctly tightened does not fix the leak. My initial suggestion was to basically clean all the dirt off around the cap, put a wrench on the bolts and check if they are tight or not..........
Thanks Nige I really appreciate the help. Also thanks for explaining the cap/key #31 for me. I defiantly understood to clean and check bolt tightness. I am the type of person that has to understand how to do something before I do it. I guess its all about confidence and like I said I have no experience with a dozer. Thats going be the first thing I do is power wash the UC, check that cap/key out and change the oil. Also thinking of dropping the belly pans and cleaning out all the dirt. I will call the dealer in the morning for the price.
Those track frames will crack around those caps so look for that also, I suspect that's what is going on there. We have repaired several of ours. It is a pain because to get a good weld you have to get the oil below the level of the crack and there is no good way to drain it. I have an electric pump for oil, that works pretty good unless it is cold. I have also pulled the track frame off and laid it on its side to weld it because I was taking it off anyway to replace the seal on the pivot shaft and equalizer bar ends. You take the cover with 4 bolts off between the top roller and sprocket to adjust the tracks and to add oil, there is a line that you fill to. I don't remember off the top of my head what they take but I think it is 30 weight.
On your maintenance I would only use Cat filters and I think Nige would agree, as for lube I use Chevron for my 5M. They have it right on the 5 Gallon bucket cat cross reference . The pivot shaft and recoil take 50wt.When you get that maintenance book it will show you the lubes and amounts.
Follow JPV's suggestion and look for cracks around the bore where the cap/key fits into the track frame before thinking about changing the oil. Try removing the 4-bolt cover just above and behind #31. This is where the track tensioner is located. If you can suck some oil out from that hole using a hose you can lower the level enough so that no oil drains out when the cap is removed. That oil is generally clean and does not degrade too much, so if you wanted to re-use it all it needs is to take appropriate precautions when sucking it out. Especially true if you find a crack when the cap is removed. Personally I have confidence in Donaldson filters in addition to OEM. Fleetguard I would definitely not recommend based on experience. Other brands apart from those two - dunno. Lubricants - anything branded from a major oil company that meets the relevant Cat spec for the compartment. This means nothing where the words "universal, tractor, or farm" appear anywhere either in the name of the product or of the store selling it. Often Cat dealers do promotions on Cat oil & filters that makes them very competitive price-wise with other sources. I would always suggest to check dealer prices first to use as a comparison with other sources when buying oil & filters.
Very nice machine! It is interesting that it has sweeps and screens, but no winch. You have excellent advice above about not using it to horse out big things like stumps or big rocks. It appears you have an excavator for that. They are truly a production finish grade dozer. I worked on the Air Force base nearby with one back when they were new, and after a little practice you can lay down some really fine grade in second with fine materials. It would be a shame to rattle it all out trying to do big horsing like rocks and stumps. If you do find yourself in big rock, it might pay to try and find the ripper assembly for it. This benefits in two ways, it'll save the dozer blade and you a bunch of beating, and this model in particular really likes the extra weight on the back end when doing finish work. I had a chance to work one with and one without. The one without tended to do a little more diving in finish gravel.
Thanks for the comments and advice. I’m hoping not to find any cracks but definitely understand that could be going on. If I do find cracks I can pull oil out to have those cracks welded up. We had some big storms move thru Arkansas today so delivery got postponed till tomorrow. Was on the phone with cat dealership getting price of book when power to house went out. We have Wi-Fi phone so when Wi-Fi goes the phones do also. Got power back on about 30 minutes ago. Definitely have no plans to tackle any big trees, big stumps or big rocks. I’m needing it to maintain old roads and clear light brush. I also would like to dig a pond with it and excavator.
If you look at the key cap there are 2 threaded holes in it, clean the threads out and use 2 bolts to back the cap out. You don't have to pull it all the way out just enough to put some sealer in there, if it is leaking. there is usually a o-ring on it but sealer will work. The recoil housing is filled with 30 wt. oil. Bob
I put a Vail 5 pocket parallel ripper on mine. Wouldn't want to be without it. The weight distribution is perfect and if you dig a pond it will save you more $ than what you'll ever have in it!
Thanks for the advice guys. Received dozer late last night. Well pump went out and I spent most of the day dealing with it. Got to run the dozer for a few minutes before my extended family starting showing up to celebrate Easter. We start on Good Friday. Anyway like I mentioned previous I’m very new to dozers. It’s going take time learning the pedals on floor. Seemed like the big one on left increased rpm when I pushed it. Little pedal on right decreases rpm’s when pushed. My machine doesn’t have the finger tip controls on left. It has two levers for tracks and has 1,2,3 for forward and reverse gears. Is it ok to move shifter to 3 while moving? Should I push in on deceleration pedal to shift gears. Really need to locate manual for operating and maintenance. Thanks Ricky
the right pedal is the decelerator. you can upshift on the go, be careful with downshifting as that can bang things pretty hard. Always come to a complete stop before changing direction.
Ok raining here but I drove dozer from pit to my shop where I’m going to power wash it. My deceleration pedal has a black rubber tarp strap to bring it back up. I’m thinking there is probably a spring that should be there can someone verify that? Also my diesel cap is missing the black vent which I can’t seem to find by itself. I see the caps for sale with vent but not vent itself. Am I going have to go thru cat dealership to get these parts? Nige I ordered my Operating and Maintenance book.
yes on the spring and yes on the fuel cap, get both from Cat unless you find them somewhere else.
The black vent is part of the cap unfortunately. Cat P/N 7X-7700 for the complete assembly. They're available all over the place for about $25. Have a look up behind the pedals, or remove the 4-screw cover in between the brake & decelerator pedals. There should be a spring there that returns the declerator pedal. You'll probably find it in 2 pieces.
I only see one spring and it’s still intack. The only time I see that big spring move is when I push throttle all the way up and it moves a little. I am hoping there is another spring that holds the deceleration pedal up. Mine will not stay.
If you disconnect the linkage from the decel pedal to the engine does the pedal come back on its own then.? If it does then the linkage is probably in need of lubrication somewhere.
Nige I sent you a PM
Also key 31 has a bolt broke off the bottom. The bolt broke flush with the cap so I’m thinking when I drain the oil down I can remove the other five bolts and rotate the cap off the broken bolt. Once off should be able to remove bolt.
Ricky,I note you asked about using 3rd gear in your tractor. Don’t. It’s highly unnecessary and will simply wreck your tracks and cause the machine to run hotter. It’s better left in 1st and 2nd. All my tractors are blanked off for 3rd
The only time I run third is when walking from place to place and run half throttle or so, less racket and same ground speed as second.
I've seen third gear used a lot in scraper operations.
I use third last weekend with that D4C, but the ground was absolutely a cushion. We're talking like driving on couch cushions but not sinking in either it was lovely. @John C. Yes I've used third scraper pushes. The key is good ground and keeping it baby butt smooth.
Yes John, I’ve used 3rd on scraper pushing when I was young too.Never my own tractors though
I rarely ever used 3rd gear. Never in reverse. I was told many years ago that track wear was huge when running in 3rd gear reverse. It seems to me that if the drive sprocket is pushing the chain it would accelerate the wear as opposed to pulling it.
It's not so much that. The way the chain is constructed, with a LH/RH link plus a bush pressed together as a solid unit, there is much more rotational movement between the bush and the sprocket tooth when the track is running in reverse. Far less than in forward. That's the major wear driver of running in reverse, at least where external bush wear is concerned.
Thanks for that Nige ! It makes perfect sense. I learned something new today !
As always, there's a Youtube video. The interesting part is a couple of mnutes from 2:10 onwards. One thing I don't think he mentioned as a wear driver, although I may have missed it, is speed.
At what point is it worth the effort and wear to turn the dozer around and drive forwards back to begin a new push? With an excavator it isn't hard to generally travel forwards, but a dozer usually has to back up nearly as much as run forward. Turning around at each end will result in steering clutch wear and lateral wear on the tracks, Is the chain and sprocket wear considered more harmful or costly than the wear from turning around? Also turning takes more time. I am relatively new to dozers and am therefore still trying to work out what the best practices are, balancing wear with productivity and such.
Regular use of reverse in a dozing application does increase wear compared to travel in forward, but is quantifiable only over a long period of time. The big issue becomes a problem when traveling longer distances in reverse. I've witnessed plenty of operators backing down long hills with the blade low and the machine in third gear. Third gear reverse used to be generally faster than third gear forward so plenty of operators would travel those distances in reverse. Lots of scraper work that involved poor management encouraged dozer operators to push for too long and then use third gear reverse to "catch up" to the next scraper in line. What I have also witnessed from plenty of third gear reverse operation is impact failures in the bushings and links. The big thing to remember is that third gear does have its uses but along with that use is an additional cost. Your car can usually go 100 miles and hour. How much life do you think you use up in doing that continually?
Yes John,I agree with too much long loading,then the long reverse. It’s all well and nice loading a scraper by a nice skim like you would a towed scraper etc,but I allways liked a roughish cut so the scrapers could bury the bowl abit and gulp a short load in.Plenty of time to start longer skims during the evening when tidying up for the day
There are times when I’ve thought that too,but I’ve yet to be convinced it would be of any use other than cleaning a rough haul road up?
Can someone tell me what is going on here at the rear of machine? If you picture the rear as a clock look at 4 o’clock. If you look on the square rail running at an angle there looks to be a plug and at the end it says lube. Any idea what’s going on here.
It’s where you plumb a gauge into to check lube pressure.
Ok thanks, I’m guessing we are talking transmission pressure?
Correct.
One of the nice things about high drive Cats is the access/test points for checking pressure for the transmission is very accessible and it’s very easy to pull the transmission (torque converter is a whole different story).
Transmission lube oil pressure about 20 psi high idle.
Also looking to change my transmission fluid and filter. Looking at my book it gives lubricant viscosities for Ambient Temperatures. The two I’m looking at are SAE 30 min. 32 max 94 degrees. SAE 50 min 50 max 122. Here in Arkansas we get to 100 but I don’t know i would be using this open cab dozer at 100 degrees. So it looks like my pick is between 30 and 50 weight. Looking more like 50 to me. Have anybody had any experience with NAPA 50 weight or should I stick with CAT. Going change the transmission oil out next week. Probably not talking but 150.00 difference for total purchase but definitely don’t want to go cheap if it’s going to wear parts faster
SAE30 would work just fine for your ambient temperatures. If you say your temps get to around 100 max it will cope with that. The numbers in the manual are not carved in stone. You don't necessarily have to use Cat-branded oils. However have you asked the local dealer if they have any offers on right now for oil & filters.? It often makes them as cheap as the competition. Are you going to change the transmission filter and clean the magnetic suction screen at the same time.?
Yes sir going do it myself
It looks like in my Dozer I can use Cat TDTO or T0-4, T0-4m. Am I correct that TDTO has replaced the other two and gives better protection? From what I can read TDTO is just an all around better oil than T0-4 or to-4m
TDTO is the name of Cat's own brand oil. TDTO = "Transmission & Drive Train Oil" TO-4 is the Caterpillar specification which any other brand of straight grade (SAE30, SAE50, etc) oil must meet to be suitable for use as an alternative to Cat TDTO. TO-4M is the specification a multigrade powertrain oil must meet to be an alternative to Cat TDTO-TMS which is the multigrade version of TDTO.
Thanks Nige that clears it up for me.
I got the transmission oil changed and luckily I was expecting the safety valve to be stuck open. When I pulled the plug the oil came gushing out. Here is a photo of what’s inside. Can someone tell me how much of this valve is left? It looks like I will need to find something to put in notches to back it our. Going install a new one before I put oil in. Thanks Ricky got oil change, transmission and flushing radiator to change over to cat red coolant
if it was mine I'd just put the plug back in. Those ecology drain valves are not the most reliable thing in the world anyway. You could do more damage to the drain plug thread by attempting to remove what's in your photo and in doing so land yourself with a much bigger problem.
I'm not sure there is enough thread between the piece and where the plug would have to go to allow a pipe plug to seal up.
They make a socket to remove the ecology drains. Fully agree. They are, in my opinion, one of the most aggravating things to deal with during service as well.
IMHO there is nothing "ecological" about them anyway......... We used to junk them at the first opportunity.
Well the dozer is at the Cat dealer getting the de accelerator pedal fixed. The guy before me had packed the area in track frame that held 50 weight oil with grease and we could see left seal was out. That all led to a new pinion shaft and left frame being milled some other repairs but can’t remember . All bearing being replaced and bushings. Of course no since in crying over spilt milk but man it would have paid to been a little patient and had this machine checked out. my advice to anybody buying anything like a dozer, excavator or dump truck. If the buyer can’t provide you with detailed maintenance records keep looking. My bill will come in around 14,000 plus. This is my on personal machine and probably a heirloom. Lol
there’s nothing more expensive than an affordable dozer
Aka "How to make a small fortune. Start with a large one and buy a piece of Yellow Iron."