I've got an old IH 175 track loader with a 2 cu yd bucket fitted with an International 466 diesel. I need to raise a 50x100 building pad three feet. I was using the track loader and a tandem axle dump truck with a 14' box to dig out for a pond, taking the spoil and spreading it for the pad. Then I got to thinking...would I be better off renting a new/much newer wheel loader with a 3.5cu yd bucket for the pond digging/dump truck loading to make things go faster? The machine rents for $1800/week. I am trying to determine time and fuel savings with the rental to consider how much the rental would actually cost in the end. Thoughts? Could the wheel loader have enough traction to scrape out the pond bowl or should I be considering another machine?
Think you'll find you'll save time on the muck shift, but end up using the 175 to grade off and scrape out the pond. If it was me I'd run what I've got. Unless you're in a massive hurry.
I agree with ih100. I don't know what you soil is like but around here you would be fighting to fill the bucket in virgin ground with a rubber tired machine. Pluse grading with a rubber tire machine sucks.
That's an excellent point. So...the other option is to rent a CAT 973D track loader with double the bucket size (4.2 yards vs 2). The question I guess becomes whether the $4,390/week would be worth it. Operator time runs about $1,000/week. Thoughts?
I am not sure about this. I started out running a cat 988 loader, so I tend to look at jobs through that experience. If you are digging in gravel or sand or dry material, I know I could move a lot more dirt with the rt loader than a track loader. If the ground is soft, wet and unable to easily support the weight of the rt loader a track loader might be better to dig out the pond but better yet would be a LGP dozer to push the pond spoil up into a pile, then it's easy for the rt loader to handle it. Even spreading the fill for the pad would be doable with the loader and you would get the advantage of better initial compaction. Of course the rt loader will load trucks faster than a track loader or even a small to medium excavator under good conditions. Unless this is top secret govt work (family, friends, neighbour, self etc.) and your time is not really of the essence and you want to run what you have to minimize costs go with the track loader. I think you may be on the right path renting a wheel loader if conditions make that viable.
Well in good ground your 973 will output close to three times what the 175 will, but that's a heck of a rental price. The 175 has a much lower ground pressure. Do you know what you're digging into? If it turns soft underfoot and the 973 takes a dive, factor in some recovery costs.
I think I'll stick with the track loader idea, then. It's even got a 4 and 1 bucket on it which should make putting everything into a pile pretty easy. That, in conjunction with the use of my full-size excavator (once I get that operational again - see my other post in the Excavator forum on Koehring filters...) should make easy work of getting the dump truck loaded. Thanks very much for all the advice! It is incredible to be able to find a place to bounce ideas off folks that know.
The rental price is definitely of concern. Adding to the mess is that the 175 is off getting a new motor due to a crank bearing knock likely from lack of maintenance from the prior owner (only had the machine maybe 20 hours and knew it had issues when I got it) - yet another expense, sure, but that cost turnkey equals the cost of the ONE WEEK rental! When it rains, it pours. Sadness.
Many years ago I watched a pond dug with a track dozer(D6?something) and a wheeled loader(96? something) no ROPS on either, dozer broke up the hard pan/cut the basin while the loader moved the spoil pile, dozer leveled and compacted the levee while the loader supplied the material fill. Was a hand in hand joint effort operation, one seemed to know the needs of the other to keep the flow rolling, had the pond built in less than eight hours and gone home. Was 1974.
It's pretty amazing to watch a crew work when they know what they are doing, no doubt. I have hired general laborers to run my equipment. There are pros and cons. They are learning a ton, but things do take more time. Experienced operators command a premium for a reason. :notworthy
I would think that once your excavator is up and running that will help significantly. We dig all of our ponds with a hoe and dozer or track loader. Do the bulk work with the hoe and truck and leave your track loader on the fill. Bring the track loader over occansionally to clean up your cut and to do the final grading. Should be an easy task
What is your time frame for this project? Can it be done when your time permits or do you have a scheduled time to have the pad ready? This will dictate how you need to go about it and more importantly how much money you are willing to put into it. Is this project for hobby or for business? Do you need the pond and building built in order to earn money on them? The answer to these questions will guide you to how you need to tackle the project.
I see a major flaw in the thinking of renting any machine for this project. You only have one dump truck. If you are renting another "loading unit" it will be waiting for the truck to return for more material. What will that machine do, to justify the rental expense, while waiting for the truck. When you consider the higher efficiency of a newer, larger rental machine (assuming you have a competent operator-more on that later) I doubt it will be generating a benefit that, justifies the cost, while the truck is not there to be loaded. One could get more trucks (also an added expense) but would one bury (overload, outpace, etc) the 175 at the fill? One could come up with many ways to be more efficient but it is a slippery slope when one puts machines/methods that require a higher capital outlay in the hands of lesser skilled operators.