Anyone have auy idea why my 2006 D5G stalls out and then wont restart until I give it a shot of starting fluid. When I turn the key on the prime pump runs for a long time before it shuts off, but the engine still wont start. It starts and runs great until it takes a spell to stall. I have changed out the fuel shut off solenoid and the prime pump, Cat recommended that due to a service bulletin, 500.00 later same problem. I have blown out all the fuel lines, cleaned the tank out but still having trouble. Anyone have any ideas what might be going on????
Have you checked the fuel tank breather? If it is blocked the engine will run until it is too hard for it to suck any more fuel and then it will stall.
Yes, it seems to be working. Do you know anything about how the electrical system is designed, a guy at Cat mentioned something about a timer.
Anyone know where the fuel pressure regulator is? I am starting to think that the priming pump is free flowing back to the tank, maybe the regulator is stuck or not working, anyone had this issue before, or know anything about this? I would really appreciate any help or advise. Thanks in advance..
The fuel line between the tank and lift pump seem to block easy.Most times unscrew tap and poke a bit wire in to clear.Priming pumps play up a bit valves stick etc. Cheers
Thanks for the advise wild8r, I'll try that tomorrow. The injection pump is somthing I am dont like to mess with, I dont know enough about it, probaly just enough to get myself in trouble and cost me a bundle. A good friend of mine that is an X Cat mechanic is coming over in the morning to check it out, he thinks the fuel pressure regulator may be stuck open, which is located on the injection pump according to him. I'll keep you posted on the quest to find the culprit.
Did you change the little fuel filter that is contained in the injector pump itself? The part number is 237-5398. It's number 2 in the picture. This parts diagram is from a D5G sn WGB.
I once had a 2006 D4G that would idle right down, no power and smoke. I took it to Cat and they did an update to the fuel filter housing. After that it worked fine until it was getting low on fuel and did the same thing. I took the lines off, blew into them, put the lines on and it worked fine. Must have been something floating in the tank. I always kept the tank above half full of fuel after that.
No luck today finding the culprit, my buddy came over and the only thing that he thought might be causing a problem was the fuel filter/water seperator combo that is under the housing of the electric primming pump. The filter showed on the directions for installation not to pre-fill the filter, so I didnt. The filter never filled up on it's own, it only got about 1/4 the way full after approx 20 hours of running. We decided to fill it up and see what happens, I dont see how it could hurt anything, I have always pre-filled any filters I change out, except air filters, LOL. I did look at that little filter on the injection pump under the fuel shut off solenoid but I couldnt get it to come out of its hole. In fear of tearing it up or getting pieces of it trapped inside the inj. pump or a injector I decided to give up on that. The fuel appears to circulate very good back into the tank with the primming pump running and the engine off, but it still seams like to me that it runs a long time before it will shut off. Not sure if thats by design or thats a clue to my problem. The update that D3DaveC is talking about has already been done when I changed mine. The Cat dealer said that they had a service bulletin out on that, but i couldnt tell any difference after I changed it to the updated version. Maybe with presistance and some luck we might figure out whats going on. Thanks for everyones help. I will keep you updated on the status.
Would anyone have a schematic of the electrical system on this D5G SN WGB?
Dave, try parking your dozer facing up hill, leave for an hour then try to start. If it doesn't start tow it around facing down hill and let it sit then try to start. If it starts facing down hill, the problem is the lip seal on the fuel pump shaft drawing air. If you have this problem machine will work good on level or down hill and lose power working up hill. Best solution is new injection pump. Later Bob
Thanks Bob, Sorry I havent replied sonner, I have been away from my PC for awhile doing a little traveling. I'll give that a try. Thanks, D5GDevo
Hey buddy I have a friend that owns a d5g I think it's a 06 as well and his turned out being a crack in the common rail that delivers the fuel to the injectors it took them 6 months to find it because it was so random just thought I'd throw it out there.. Hope ya figure it out man... Thanks,Jason
Dave, just remembered a easier way that worked for me. Park dozer facing slightly down hill and raise the front above level. If it doesn't want to start you can just lift the blade and be facing down hill to try again. Later Bob
Hey Bod/Ont, I tried that today and thats exactly what it did. You are a genius!!!! I called my Cat dealer today about a new injection pump and its going to be around 3,000.oo OUCH!!! I wonder if i can just have the seal replaced by a injector pump shop or may be get mine rebuilt. The pump seams to be fine except for the seal. Anybody had experience with this??
Dave, all Cat seems to have is new, no repaair or exch??? I was just going to suggest that to you if you have a good fuel shop. You need to get the dealer to print you the R&I and Timing instructions when you are there buying your gaskets, get pages first before you pay for parts. The electric pump fills the injection pump housing and a pump inside charges the high pressure part of the pump. When you are going up hill the seal is dry and air gets sucked into the fuel and the high pressure section doesn't get a clean charge, just foam. Later Bob
The Cat dealer did say that they could get a re-man pump, but they didnt have any in stock and no new ones in stock , they would be on back order and we know what that means......Wait for it....I think i am going to call a diesel injection service in Louisville, KY in the morning and see what they say or I could just stay on flat ground and I wouldnt have no problems.
Dave, keep it going and get a reman one if you can. If you have any doubt about getting the timing right let Cat do it and warrenty it. The one I found played out the same, pump backordered and I didn't change it so I can't help you with experiance. Later Bob
Thanks to veryone this have been very helpful. May be I can return the favor somtime..
Hey Catman75 where is the common fuel rail located?
Dave, doesn't your pump have a line off to each cyl? Later Bob
I have a d4g that quits on 1/4 tank going up hill every time ,where does it get this air from crankcase?
If you have the same problem it is drawing from the crankcase. But don't buy a pump just yet. Fill your tank full and do as I told Dave. Park machine on a slight downward slope. Push down blade and lift machine so it's in an up slope situation. If machine starts easy at that angle your problem might be something else. If it's hard to or will not start, lift blade untill machine faces down slope. If it will start easy down slope then you likely have this problem. Later Bob
Thanks' i will do that it runs fine on up hill above 1/4 but i will try to start it like you said i have a good pump shop here if needed .
If it starts good up hill with a full tank, I suspect maybe a problem with fuel pickup inside the tank. Cheapest solution is keep the top half full. Later Bob
Yea that is what i been doing but this thread got me thinking .and that takes a lot.
Well keep this in mind as time goes on. The one I learned this from was a machine that had no power working up hill, and it was on a mean slope. It had a problem with a full tank. Watch yours to see if it gives trouble with higher and higher fuel levels. Later Bob
Hey man sorry it took me so long to get back to you been busy wich is a good thing with winter comin on.Anyway the fuel rail is what supplies the injectors maybe bob can help me with explaining it to you but here we go your fuel rail will be hooked up to each injector instead of the old school way of a line to each injector they now deliver the fuel down a rail wich all the injectors get fed by my buddy's had a hairline crack in it and once the engine got good and hot it would start missing bad and if it sat for a day or two was extremely hard to start and smoked terribly for a few minutes until I guess it burned off the excess fuel..sorry I can't be more precise I'm sure bob will jump in and help me out I'm not a mechanic by no means but I did help his mechanic tear it down and was there when they finally found the crack.replaced the rail and she runs good as new I haven't heard about anymore his may have been a isolated incident hope I helped ya some.. Jason
Jason, there are so many different series of machines and serial# breaks it's hard to keep track of what you have. From way up north here it's a bit hard to see but I suspect Dave's engine is a Mitsubishi and has a distributor pump with lines to the injectors. Your friend's is likely a Perkins with a High pressure rail. Those High Pressure rail pumps need timing to the engine like the regular pump. They have one of the speed sensors in them, the one that knows when to fire the injectors. Later Bob
Well it started fine up hill but it was not full i will fill the tank and try again tomorrow.
No need to Shopguy. You have a different problem. If it started good today putting more fuel in the tank will not help. If you have a level/protractor handy. Suspect you might to check grades. Keep it handy and check the grade you are going up when it gives trouble and how much fuel is in the tank. Write the numbers down, fuel in tank 1/2 1/4 1/8 and the angle it runs bad at. Might come up with ideas as to level of fuel at pickup tube. Come on back with what you find. Later Bob
Sounds like it could be the transfer pump. With less than 1/4 tank there is very little head pressure so the transfer pump is needed. Does the primer pump on the side of the injection pump work?
Thanks Bob i will do that , Lee i didn't even know that one had a hand pump but i will try to pump it up when it quits.BTWit is a HYD prefix
You are right Bob my machine the D5G SN WGB with the Mitsubishi engine has a line from the pump to each injector, no fuel rail. Also this machine doesnt have a hand primming pump either, it uses the electric lift pump back at the tank to prime the system. Also FYI, I drained my fuel tank and cleaned it out looking for pluggage and noticed that inside my tank was nothing more than a pipe coupling welded into the bottom of the tank about a 1/2" higher than the bottom, no pick up tube of any kind in mine.
Just to update everyone on my problem, I have decided to pull my injection pump and send it to a Diesel Injection service shop and have them go through it. I tried the test of raising the front end of the machine up and it wouldnt start, lower it back down level and it would fire right up. So I believe that the problem may be in a seal of the injection pump like what Bob mentioned earlier.
Got the pump delivered to the pump shop Monday morning, just waiting on a phone call now, I hope they find something....
Got my pump back on and everything is working great so far, haven't put it on the job yet but it did pass the test raising the front end up with the blade, so far so good. The only thing that the shop found was that the lip seal on the shaft was slightly cracked but when they tested it with air pressure on the bench they couldn't find and leakage. The service pump did show signs of slight wear but it did have 3000 hrs on it, so they put a rebuild kit in the pump and tested it. The tech at the shop did say that I should have replaced all my rubber hoses because they sometimes will come apart on the inside and cause allot of problems. He also recommended using a fuel treatment with every tank. The rebuild was a little pricey 750.00, but if that fixes my problem then it was money well sent. Better that the price of a new one 3000.00 or 1300.00 with my old pump for core from Cat. Hopefully water under the bridge and I can get back to pushing dirt.... Later all. PS. Bob U know your stuff thanks.
Dave Not sure where you are located, but im am in the dallas area and just had m&d injection rebuild my pump for my d5 and it runs great now was doin the same thing yours is, and the cost was only 1700 so to answer your question yes it can be rebuilt.