Looking to purchase a TR 270 and noticed the hydraulic oil looked dirty(brownish-black). I am comparing it to my 420ct-3 where I can see through the sight glass and oil is clean. Was wanting to know if this could be an ongoing problem or if flushing the system may cure it. It has 1300hrs on it and do not know the maintenance schedule of it. Talked to local Case dealers and they said full tune up and flush around 1000 hrs. Thinking it may have been hooked up to an attachment with dirty hydraulic oil. Seeing if anyone had input on this and of the rest of the machine itself. Thanks
I would be worried about both track hydro drives on the machine. Do a hydro fliud analysis on it ..could be simply what you or saying or it could be a 10 plus grand final replacement....be careful, do your homework before you spend a nickel on it. Should have been totally flushed and refilled by now.....any maintenance records on it ? You can get burned pretty easy if it wasn't cared for properly. 1300 isn't allot of hours if cared for correctly but again scheduled maintenance is mandatory on this units..if they just ran and didn't follow the manufacturers scheduled maintance program, things can get crazy expensive real fast......good luck..
I agree with PA, do a real good look over of the entire machine. I have just short of 1500 hrs. on my '12 TR320 and it's had both drives replaced. Thankfully I only had to pay for one, but that still wasn't much fun. I bought the machine at 750 hrs and it's apparent that the PO didn't do a great job keeping up on maintenance. You can do a search on my TR320 thread on here, but here are a few things to check just off the top of my head. I would pop the plugs on the final drives and check out fluid level and what the gear oil looks like. By the condition of the hydro fluid it doesn't sound like they would have changed the gear oil to cover anything up, so that will tell you a lot. Be sure to flip the cab forward and check for signs of rubbing on the hydro hoses and electrical lines under there. If it's a cab model, check for rubbing on the a/c lines going to the cab and see if the condensate drains are clear. Check the condition of the cabin filter as well. You can also pull the battery cover off and take a look at the oil filter. Drop the belly pan under the engine and make sure they've kept that area cleaned out. There's piping that runs under the oil pan area. Material builds up, rusts the piping and if the material hardens can crack the pan. This happened to one of our fellow members here. The engine has to be pulled to replace it. Last but not least, hook up an attachment and check if the joystick roller is working. That's been a problem on more than one of the '12 machines. It's a +$600 repair if you do it yourself. Removing a handful of bolts and an hour of your time could save you thousands.
The list is extensive on common issues on all the alpha series skids, but the newer years addressed most of these issues " tier4B" . Loader arm cracks at the bosses, oil pan cracks, right motor mount bolts break, engine harness rubs through on ac lines causing random faults, fuse block can fill with water, diodes corrode under left side of control towers,numerous joystick wiring harness issues on EH units, engine fans exploding, hydraulic cooler lines blowing off at the filter head, Hydraulic Drive loop hoses rubbing and poping at 500hrs, final drives grenading and i am sure theres a couple of things that i am forgetting. Some of these issues where lack of maintenance and some where just **** poor assembly at the factory. So with that said once all these issues are address the machine are a good little track loader. The oil color i wouldn't be too concerned with originally there had a Blue colored oil and was extremely expensive but is compatible with 10-30 rotella which is a dark brown, so mix the 2 and black is what ya get. And no dealership i have worked at Flushes the system its a simple drain tank and fill which is only 5 gals of the i think 13 gallon system so likely that why yours is black.
I've had most of the issues you listed, or have caught a few of them before they happened on my 2012 TR320. Some of the problems were just plain stupid. Just goes to prove my theory on the machines. They just weren't ready for prime time and Case dumped their poorly designed and assembled trash on the consumer year after year. Could they be good machines?...yes, but they're not. In 6 years they still haven't cleaned up the undercarriage on the new machines around the finals. Mud gets packed in there and you can't even get a hand under the bottom of the sprocket to clean it out. I've learned my lesson. Once I can afford another machine, I'll dump mine and never own anything Case in the future.
You'd really like the undercarriage of my machine, I was in mud all day today, didn't take more than a hose and 2 min per side and it was completely clean. Very rarely I get a Mesquite stuck around the top of the final, but very easy to remove.
You should see the TR270 at the farm. General use plus having a half dozen feed lots with 1200 head of cattle. An archaeologist could do an experiment from what you'd find in that machines undercarriage.
I ran in mud for 30 minutes max yesterday afternoon cleaning up a wet swale after installing culverts. It took over 45 minutes to get it clean enough for transport. But hey, I won't turn this thread into another TR bash fest...I already have one documenting most of the problems I've had with this machine, and Case, and the dealership...
JNB I agree with some of your complaints on the new alpha design case units but with that said I feel you would be making a mistake by not even looking at the tier4B units which has addressed almost all the issues saw on the previous series. harness route different and more service friendly, completely re-designed track frame that are impressive , loader arm reinforcements, fuse block in different location and better sealing, joysticks harness electrical routed different, hydraulic tubes to replace the drive loop hoses, these are just some of the many changes Case made on the tier4b units and so far have been a really good machine. But case is also great at designing a new series machine and for the 1st couple of years they are plagued with issues xt's had there share of issue when 1st came out and the later versions where great same with the 400 series the 1st series where plagued with issue and the series 3 400 where a awesome machine. But this just is not shared by case and can find the same circumstances is any product you buy. Rule is that you never buy a 1st model of anything weather its case,bobcat,terex, ford,chevy,dodge what have ya. As far as dealer support goes if your using a agriculture dealership to service your construction unit youll never get the support that a dedicatd construction dealership can offer since it shear numbers, ag shops even tho can sell skidsteers don't see enough of them when compared to a construction dealership to be able to offer the support its the same if a farmer brought his combine to a construction shop to be repaired, could we do it..yes but the level of expertise would not be there. If ya get bad service at a construction dealership then it maybe just a poorly trained tech working on it which happens the support sometimes from the factory down to the dealship is also not very helpful most the time. Lets face it Case doesn't make the components just the "box" all the components go in so getting training and support on newer technology is sometimes tough and turn over is high in my field so trying to get a qualified tech and retain him is extremely difficult, especially when dealerships can not can not offer what oil,mining,or union construction company's can and still be profitably. So will end this at least go down and check out the latest units and always do some research there seems to be enough online support here to steer you in the right decision. If you would like to see the impovements I could probably post some pics later on. like I said the track frames are pretty sweet looking.
I for one would be very interested in seeing some pics and the undercarriage.
Bummer would appear that i can not post pics yet is there a min?
Here some pics of the new case undercarriage hopefully they will show up
Looks much better. You know if the rear idler is a single roller, and front is a dual?
Looks like a single front idler still. So they finally cleaned up a few things. I'm betting the loader arms still have to be raised to access the vitals. That's really fun with a blown hydraulic hose in the belly. Still have the wimpy, rattle trap window guards? Plastic window lock pegs? How about the "look like metal" chessy PLASTIC light guards on the front, and equally cheesy PLASTIC rear light enclosures? No thanks. I'll miss the fuel sipping Fiat diesel, but my next machine will be a Kubota or Tak period.
Here's the Kubota undercarriage, after being washed. My friend wants to trade in his cat 277B mtl. I'm trying to talk him into a tak. I wish a dealer was closer to me because that's what I would've gotten. I felt the Kubota would be 2nd best for my application...and it really has exceeded it.
That's my dilemma, or it will be when I make my next purchase. I have two kubota dealers close by. One is 20 min. and the other 40. I rent attachments and excavators from them both and know them both well. Both Tak dealers are a bit over an hour away and both of them mean a trip to "town."
I will likely get the Tak 12V2. The issues I have had with my TR320 have been largely handled by CASE. My total out of pocket has been $700 for a control handle and I am now at 1200 hours. My SV300 which is a 2014 has been nearly flawless to 600 hours. I am really happy with it. Zero handle issues, great power and awesome truck loading characteristics. The material around the lights is metal, the door is heavy duty. They certainly have made improvements in the series, honestly the learning curve should not have been that steep. I would buy the Tak simply for the bigger power and more weight. I don't regret the TR320 purchase, it has been a good machine for me, and more importantly it has made me a lot money.
I like the new company name and logo. I see you have a few things on the website to straighten out, but it looks good.
Let me say that I am not a salemen so could care less if anyone buys a Case,tak ,cat etc i have 20 yrs working as a technician on heavy equipment at the dealership level and am just trying to give a un bias opinion on "in this instance" Case but could also do same for cat,volvo and terex " formally asv" . So with that the front and rear idlers are single , front worklights are now housed in metal, rear still in plastic but a beefy demo door was upgraded to help protect them and the coolers also. There is plans for a larger model coming out soon but dont know any details on it yet....KSSS or anyone else that is considering a Tak you also may want to check out the Terex pt110G forestry, I could also list some of the common issues with these but for the most part are a extremely tough machine and are a ton more comfortable to operate then a rigid frame and have alot of similar features of the taks but i would have to say performance wise the pt110G wins hands down. Imo.
My issue with the ASV is the track system. We are in a high desert environment here, and while the independent suspension is very comfortable and quiet. It simple doesn't last in these types of rocky conditions. They have great engine and hydraulic power but I need the CTL durability.
You guys have posted a lot of interesting info about the Alpha series and I am now thinking of sticking with a 400 series. The front idler mount on the pictures doesn't look as stout as the 400 series but I understand the mud build and the new design looks beneficial. I am an H-pattern junkie and the only other machine I have run with it is a Deere. I would look at other models but do not like the controls. Also the SVL 95-2 are going any where from $80,000 to $95,000 in our area but people say they are beasts. I have a 420ct-3 now and it surprised the hell out of me. I recently bought a hydraulic squeeze chute and the truck driver told me it weighed 5200#. I stabbed it with the forks and that machined picked it right up and put it into place. We have a standing offer on the tr270 now but the guy won't budge. The other thing is that it is a mechanical control and not the E-H. Will we have the some of the same issues as posted before?
Honestly keep your 420-3 you have the 3rd generation which was the updated version with all the fixes case learned from the previous 2 series. I can say that of all cases skids the one I see the least is the series 3 400's. By purchasing the tr270 if it's a tier 4A " easiest way to tell is the rear door is power tan, tier 4b are gray " then yes you could have some of the common issues but will depend on previous owners maintenance and since it's mechanical you won't see Alot of the eletrical issues the EH units had.
I agree with bartelbe, I'd keep the machine that's been working good for you as long as possible. I have a NH tractor that I do driveways with that's ticked over 3200hrs. It was trouble free for the first 2200hrs, and hasn't cost me too much since. For most of those hours the machine was used for a bunch of tasks it was never designed for. It's been a great money maker. bartelbe - Thank you for taking the time to run down the TR's upgrades. If I wasn't so sour on the whole thing I'd be tempted. I do like the breakout on the TR320 and the A/C is nothing short of awesome. If it weren't for the sucky dealership (construction btw) and the $15k I've spent making the machine semi dependable, I'd be tempted to give the new model a try. A lot of things have happened with this machine, but the cab fire during a rainstorm pretty much nixed any brand loyalty that I might have had in the beginning.
I find it interesting also to read about the new Case machine problems. I have a TL150 which is still king in my book. But I am considering upgrading my 75xt with a Case TV280 machine. Looking the new machine over I can see that the bucket linkage on the new machines is inferior to my older machine. I also see that the loader arms must be raised to access the drive area. I have had a hose blow on a job in the belly of my 75 xt. I was able to tilt the cab to fix it. Case had a good thing going with those older machines. Based on the everything. IF you run the 75xt out of fuel you can get to the fuel injector nuts, banjo bolt and the pump fairly easily to get it primed back up with just an adjustable wrench. You can tell there was a designer(s) that worked there that had great forethought for problems the common man would face. I wish I could shake their hands and say good job. I called Case recently and asked to speak to an engineer at the factory. I wanted to ask some questions about the new sv280 vs the 75xt, they told me to call the dealer, no one was available to answer my questions that the dealer has no clue on. That really pissed me off. They should have worked on making the machine better without a complete redesign of things that worked good as it was. Make it stronger and more break proof, like better drive motors and double hydraulic filters before and after the pumps. So far I have not upgraded, I think I am afraid too.. I can tell the new machines are faster and have more torque. They now have turbos, high pressure fuel systems, computers and emissions crap that is more or less impossible to work on your self. Makes me even wonder why I want a new machine. Well I can answer that, I don't mind repairing what I have. I want a cab with a/c to keep the dust off me.
Everyone puts so much importance on dealer support, but I've learned time and time again the only person you can rely on is yourself. I've bought new equipment and used equipment, they all need work. Not sure the new stuff is any better to be honest in my opinion. I can't say I really want to be an equipment salesman, but it really wouldn't be too hard to do a much better job that most of them. Maybe just because i genuinely really like this stuff. People say it from time to time, but CAT really has got it down. Not perfect, but the support, parts, and professionalism is unreal. We have a 35 year old CAT yard machine and you can still get any single thing you need for it in 48 hours or less. Sometimes it's new old stock parts in a dusty bag from the late 70's. Not to say they are the 'best'. (That is the only cat machine we have in a fleet of 8 machines) but it is a really solid company and I know exactly why people choose caterpillar. Jnb, it does appear you got a lemon but you speak about your disappointment about the service from the dealer- what was your expectation when you bought the machine private party? Granted the issues you have had are unwarranted, but any move you make in this biz (especially buying used) lies on you. All you can do is keep moving forward, I understand completely why you wouldn't have another case. I grew up with case equipment and have a soft spot in my heart for them and think they make a good product, but in all honesty I won't be buying an alpha series case until I am absolutely FORCED to. And, for no other reason than the electric over hydraulic controls. No way those are going to still be working well in 10 years. I'll stick with my takeuchi's or a kubota with good old pilots and simplicity. I think it's time for me to start looking for a nice 440ct-3....
My expectations were that the dealer could replace a drivemotor without screwing something else up and then trying to sweep it under the rug. A wire was pinched somewhere causing a short and resulting in a fire which took out the entire main wiring harness. This happened with zero hours on the machine after the repair. Several calls, documentation and online contacts with Case didn't help. When I asked to speak to the regional rep, I was told that they (Case) doesn't operate that way and to contact the dealer. Another dealership's (same company) service manager got wind of it and tried to make it right, but when they picked up the machine a chain broke and slammed through the back of my wife's grandparents motorhome. The service manager apologized and asked us to get an estimate for the repair, then swept that under a rug as well. The fiasco of trying to get the motorhome repaired was insane, both with ASCO and Case. Trying to get it resolved in traditional ways (like talking to actual people) was a complete waste of time. I paid for the repairs to the motorhome and moved on, but my wife didn't. The stay at home mom's persistence in slamming them both on FB (of all places) actually worked. It took months. Since the ordeal, the service managers at both dealerships that screwed up act like I'm a black sheep or something. Maybe they're both embarrassed? Don't know. Screw them and Case. But I'm not bitter or nothin.