Hi all, got this machine on the auction, 2300 hours, replaced the engine harness because was throwing codes on many sensors, disabled the MSS module, machine came without the key and this one has a chip key. Now is 2 codes on MAF sensor but the engine should start. Working on this 2 weeks already and no luck, just crank and no start, no white smoke. Any help or advice please on this!
You obviously have ET. Any chance of downloading a Product Status Report (in pdf format please) for the complete machine and posting it up.?
Yes, I’ll do this tomorrow
Good morning, here is the report
And it pops up straight away........... You have an E459 Event (actually 34 of them within the last 1 hour of machine "operation" which effectively means key switch ON) which is most likely preventing the engine from starting. There are probably a dozen different things thaty will cause this to happen, but you could start by removing, cleaning the tags/terminals, and refitting every ground cable on the machine. This specially includes the one from the engine block to the machine frame (located right behind the HP fuel pump) and the ones (from memory I think there are two) between the cab and the machine frame. If you want a complete list of what could cause this Event then simply use "E459" as a search term here in the forum and I'm sure it will generate enough leads to keep you going diagnostically for weeks.
The ground from engine block to the frame I cleaned, I replaced the engine harness, i checked the right now the ground pulse to the injectors plug and there is nothing, the ecm not opening the injectors
Until you have done the same to every single ground cable on the machine there is always a lingering doubt that a bad ground can cause an E459. It's the first step in the diagnostic process - not guaranteed to fix the problem but you have to start somewhere. In fact when the E459 first raised its ugly head a number of years back the first communication from the factory was a requirement to go right through the affected machine checking each and every main ground connection. Do you have an electrical schematic.? If not you probably need one to locate all the ground cable connections because some are hidden away or only visible with the cab raised. Note that you have had 34 x E459 Events in 1 hour of "running". Every time you turn on the key it will generate another one. Try it and see. Do a single key ON and then connect ET. I would expect that the E459 will have increased from 34 to 35. As I said above, search for E459 using the forum search function. It'll give you grey hairs. Also attached the troubleshooting procedure for the 523631-2 Event. It may be the case that this is causing your no start issue but I am not confident that it is. I saw your post in the other thread regarding fuel leakage and IMHO 4600psi when cranking should be enough to light the fires but in your case it appears that the electronics don't want to come out to play.
Cleaning the end of the ground cables and power cables is always a good idea, but does not tell you if a small ground or power cable is capable of carrying the current required to operate or start. You will need to voltage drop test a whole pile of cables and connections to see if one has a problem. We are not there, you posted that you changed the main engine harness. Was it visibly damaged or testing determined it needed to be changed. As Nige said every Ground connection needs to be tested with reference to Battery Negative Post, as well as test all the relays and fuses that are Positive Battery Power with reference to Battery Positive Post. This can be done fairly quickly if you understand how to do but must be done with some current flowing or you will have erroneous meter readings that complicate things more. Not sure of your ability or experience. Simon C
I replaced the engine harness because was codes on multiple sensors and the easiest way to fix this was to just replace it, right now i checked the wires at the plug for injectors 4 pins 2 v another 4 nothing when unplugged, plug in all wires 2 v, whiles cranking using a led light tester no pulsing signal to the injectors. Right now I’m thinking that can be injectors drivers inside the ecm are bad and not sending the signal.
Thank you Nige!
Before condemning a computer, best test all the cables as posted including the powers and grounds from the computer. If one of those wires is compromised a new computer will fix nothing.
You could have a bad computer, but I would voltage drop test a pile of things and take note of all that was tested before sending big bucks to any parts supplier. Simon C
Kubota ECMs are not the most reliable thing in the world, but IMHO you have to go through everything else eliminating each and every parameter on the diagnostic journey before finally condemning the ECM. And if you get to that point I would suggest you go back to the start and go through everything once more just to make sure that you didn't miss anything before shelling out for a replacement ECM. YMMV.
Will check once again but 2 weeks of my live I spent in this machine lol
Can you guys tell me please if this is normal to see only injector calibrations for the engine?
Sorry I don't understand. What exactly do you mean.?
I attached the picture
I would say that the "Injector Codes Calibration" is actually what we all commonly refer to as the E-Trim Codes, used when a replacement injector is installed to "Code" it to the ECM. What happens if you click that highlighted menu.? Does it bring up another screen.? You mentioned installing a new engine harness. Was it genuine OEM or aftermarket.?
Yes, I can see the injectors codes and can change them, just wondering if it’s supposed to be more options, on the machine ecm I can see the parameters and change them for the engine no
Also what I noticed, the prime pump is clicking and have the constant clicking noise, the sound is not changing like when is full, replaced with new pump and same thing.
Are you referring to the electric priming pump attached to the fuel filter.? If so it should run for about 30 seconds and then stop if you turn the key to ON and leave it there. That is a very basic engine ECM and AFAIK there are no customer-settable parameters in it apart from the injector E-Trim Codes.
Yes the transfer pump is new and make a constant clicking noise, I know that the pump should change the sound when the prime is full, just thinking about this, not sure how supposed to be.
Not necessarily. If the key is turned to the ON position without starting the engine the priming pump should run for 30 seconds then turn off. That is what you should be looking for. The only function of that pump is to prime an empty fuel filter after servicing. There is what is known as a "feed pump" inside the HP fuel pump that is responsible for transferring fuel from the filter to the injection pump when the engine is running. See attached. Have you done the simple stuff like checking the fuel lines for blockages.? Does the fuel filter actually fill up with fuel when the priming pump runs.? Question: Have you removed the HP fuel pump at any time while you have had the machine.?
No, I didn’t remove the fuel pump and doesn’t look like it was removed before, my thoughts right now is that the ecm drivers for the injectors fail and not opening the injectors but I don’t know how to test this.
I think you are jumping too far ahead and getting fixated on one particular thing. Let the diagnostics run their course and the cause will become obvious. That's good, because it has to be timed before being removed. Again I ask............. Have you done the simple stuff like checking the fuel lines for blockages.? Does the fuel filter actually fill up with fuel when the priming pump runs.?
I checked the fuel lines, the water separator filter is full and is filling quick, I tried and bypass the water separator also, I removed a line from the rail and when cranking fuel is coming, I removed the return line from rail and fuel is coming also, i checked the wiring, the only thing remaining is the ecm and I don’t have from where to borrow one to test.
I suppose you have already tried spraying a whiff of starting fluid down the intake to see if the engine actually fires.? The idea of dropping somewhere North of $4k on a new ECM based on what right now is a hunch doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
There is no way you have already tested all the grounds to make sure on the computer, that none are above 100MV loss to battery Negative and tested the positives all over the machine for less than 0.3-0.5 Volts loss to battery positive. Because there is nothing coming out of an injector Driver cable at the injector does not prove the computer is gone, it only proves that that particular wire will need to be tested with a 5 amp load while disconected at the computer and disconnected at the injector end. If someone wants you to just buy and apply the new parts then just do it I guess. I wouldn't and don't think Nige would either. There was one post a while back that had the E-459 code that I believe ended up being a battery relay that was faulty. He wanted to get a new computer but found before that. Hope you have dotted all the I's and crossed all the Tees. Simon C
100% agree.
I’m thinking on the ECM because when I got the machine the 30amps big fuse for ECM was blown. 15 days spent on this
A blown fuse = a fried ECM. That's stretching the imagination a bit. I assume that you replaced the fuse and now it is not blowing.?
Yes I replaced the fuse and it’s not blowing now
I’m thinking if the fuse for ecm was blown that can cause some damage on it but on the same time I can see the ecm on ET and all sensors are active no faults except the MAF sensor Whichi I think is bad.
You have the troublshooting procedure for it. Sort that out first would be my suggestion. You have to do that at some point anyway so why not do it now.? It may not cure the no start condition but if you fix the problem and the Code goes away then you know for sure that it is NOT the problem. I suppose there is a possibility that an injector driver circuit inside the Engine ECM is fried but generally if a fuse blows and the problem is not fixed when a replacement fuse is installed it will also blow. YMMV. I currently have lots of money riding on the E459 Event being the root of your problem. Do some research into the Event just on this forum. It is more common than you think.
Just wanted you to know that if you read the Fuel System Opeeration ( KENR9884-23) to the end that Nige posted , the Injector Driver Circuit uses 110 volts to fire the injector. You need a Scope to be able to read that at the high speed it is. Trouble shooting these things can be intense. Hope you do as suggested by Nige. Hope you do get it fixed. Simon C
Thank you guys! Will update once I’ll have something new. Have a good weekend!
Hello everyone, found the problem. Dpf filter clogged. Any suggestions how to solve? New filter or delete?
There are specialist companies who will clean DPFs. Also IIRC Cat sell Reman ones.
What about delete for this engine?
Not legal in your market therefore no support on this forum. Forum owners decision, not mine.