Need advice on 2022 Cat 289D3 S/N JX911140 random hydraulic loss on boom and Auxiliary controls when working under normal load. Seems to happen less if I keep machine at 50% throttle. If I throttle up higher it happens faster. I still have drive control but boom controls essentially go dead. Boom will go down only. No up, no curl. If I idle down, then rotate boom controls they'll usually return to normal operation. On occasion I've had to cycle key off and start back up to resume normal. It's had this problem since I got machine with 1765 hrs on it. Now has 1950 hrs on it. Done full PM all new filters, new fluids. Same problem persists. And problem has occurred just using bucket moving dirt. Also occurred with different attachments, 2 different brand mulchers, grapple, brush cutter... regardless of attachment, problem persists. If I maintain 50% throttle sometimes it won't do it at all, other times it's repetitive and have to turn off Aux Hydraulics, idle down and repeat process... frustrating with productivity. Haven't had Cat service come diagnose yet. And can't take to Cat dealer cause it only happens working machine under load. So wouldn't be able to repeat the issue if I take it to Cat dealer under no load scenario. I'm not getting any fault codes. If I run higher throttle it happens faster. While I would agree it's a joystick issue or seat sensor, it works without issue below 50% throttle for hours and even days. I bump throttle up, almost guaranteed to occur. And hydraulic temp generally stays around 180 degrees entire time whether issue occurs or not.
Your machine has an Advanced Display I take it.? Does it show anything for Logged Codes.?
Yes has diagnostics in the display and no logged codes.
Might it be worth bypassing first the door switch and then the seat switch for the purposes of a test.? Those two switches are in series as part of the implement lockout circuit. The door switch is easy. Look on the floor of the LH side of the cab directly behind the seat. There should be a 6-pin connector (CONN 19) with a single wire jumper harness zip-tied to it. Confirm that you are looking at the correct connector using the wire colours below as a reference. Unplug the two halves of the connector and plug in the jumper. For the seat switch you could temporarily jumper Pins 3 & 4 of CONN 18. If you don't have a heated seat then simply unplug CONN 18 and install the jumper on the machine side of the harness (left side of the illustration below).
Jumpered door and seat switch as instructed, problem still persists, I also noticed if I pull seat jumper out, parking brake light, seat belt light and Hydraulic locked out light come on. None of those come on at the time i lose Hydraulics. There's no indicator lights on, everything appears normal operation but no lift or curl and Auxiliary hydraulics stop if I'm using power rake or mulcher. Again, with no lights that come on. If I have continuous flow on at the time it does it, even shows continous flow still active light. Even though it's lost Hydraulics to the boom. I can always lower boom, and drives still work when this happens.
I would class that as normal if you had the key on when you did it. The Machine ECM is expecting to see input signals from the implement interlock circuit that suddenly disappear if you pull out the jumper with the machine energised. It should have produced one or more Logged Diagnostic Codes related to the door switch. Please can you check and list whatever shows up on the display as Logged, with a photo if possible.
Not getting any Implement, hydraulic or solenoid codes. No active codes. All the logged codes are old and have been in the diagostics since I got the machine.
Could it be this lower solenoid? I tested ohms on both upper solenoid was 8.8 and lower was 4.9. But I also see upper is P/N 449-1636 lower is P/N 362-3212. When I look at parts diagram it shows 2 of the same 362-3212 in that valve block. Maybe someone put the wrong solenoid in the upper position? The 362-3212 solenoid looks noticeably cleaner/newer than the the upper solenoid also.
Lastly, I can also report yesterday using Harley Rake about an hour into using it 50% throttle started losing Hydraulics as explained, would persist now frequently. Today, same Harley rake, problem started within few minutes of using and after reset, idling down, it would happen again in minutes even running less than 50% throttle. Getting more frequent, like it's an implement control valve solenoid failing faster but not throwing any fault code.
I think you're looking in the wrong place. That valve block with the small accumulator on top is for the hydrostatic drive system. There was an earlier version of the valve that used 2 x 362-3212 solenoid valves. You have the later version of the valve that should be fitted with 2 x 449-1636 solenoid valves. In truth either Part Number of solenoid valve will work in that location because both are listed in the Parts Manual. See the attachment. See the illustrations below. This is the implement control valve. The lift section is Ref #3, the one in the centre. The solenoid valves in this location should definitely be 2 x 362-3212. I'm not sure which one is lift and which is lower, but no matter. Try swapping the two solenoids and see what happens. Specification of the 362-3212 is 4.72 ± 0.24 ohms @ 68 DegF.
That's interesting the valve block with accumulator is the drive system. I was having issues with left drive motor i rebuilt. Be curious to change the 362-3212 solenoid with the 449-1636 if it would resolve issue i still have with left drive motor operation. I'll try swapping those 2 solenoids you suggest and see if the problem follows to something else for the current issue of losing Hydraulics.
Again I have no idea which of those solenoids controls which drive motor. If you're having drive motor issues you have nothing to lose by swapping the two solenoids on the hydrostatic system valve block and observe the effect.
I swapped solenoids on Implement control valve, still have same issue losing boom and Aux Hydraulics. Nothing changed with that regard. Any method to test right joystick?
And just to restate, I can idle down, rotate joystick and lift and Aux will come back. But not if I maintain higher RPM. I have to idle it down. Some cases even had to cycle key switch today to regain lift and Aux.
And specifically i swapped #3 ref solenoids above with no change in issue. Drive motor issue has only been in high speed left motor would stop and throw fault code abnormal speed on left motor.
By "rotate the joystick" you simply mean jiggle it around in a circle.? That's sounding a lot like a dodgy position sensor in the joystick base. There should be a parameter in the Diagnostic menu of the Advanced Display where you can see the duty cycle signal from the joystick position sensors. If not you can always measure them if you have a multimeter capable of measuring duty cycle. EDIT: "Status Parameters" menu. Monitor the duty cycle of the joystick X-Axis position sensor when the impement system acts up. This would need monitoring of the drive motor speed signals LH & RH while the machine is working. Again IIRC (not an expert on it by any means) there is a way to do that within the AD. If you overhauled the left drive motor is there any chance that metallic particle(s) has got stuck to the nose end of the sensor.? Pull the sensor out and take a lkook would be the first suggestion.
Moving joystick right to left, that's how I know Hydraulics come back to resume operation. And yes, I've watched advance display and it shows right joystick movement parameters and appear to work normal.
Have you monitored the Parameters in the AD while operating the machine and noted anything out of the ordinary when the implement hydraulic lift function disappears.? Can I ask why you had to rebuild the LH drive motor.? My mind is diving off at a tangent and if it's what I think it is then the motor issue may be somewhat related to the implement problems.
I bought from Cat Dealer in MS with it noted issue with left drive motor. Service techs at that dealer said needed new left drive motor when i picked it up. Problem with left motor primarily occurred in high speed only it would abruptly stop. Research suggested it was a cracked swash plate. I rebuilt motor and sure enough it was a cracked swash plate. After rebuild last month, it drives smoother and better but high speed if I stop and reverse left motor will hang up and not move. If I switch to low speed it's fine. Before it would abruptly stop even while contB GGO LHLinuing forward in high speed. Now it only hangs up if I stop in high speed and try to resume.
It was a Cat rental on a solar farm from new in 2022 till I bought it from the dealer that rented it in Dec 2024.
No repair history records when I picked up from dealer. Just typical maintenance intervals. I bought with 1765 hrs on it.
Was there much damage in the way of missing metal on the swash plate apart from the crack.? I'm just wondeirng if any particles from the failure could have made it to the swashplate control piston of the implement pump causing it to hang up every once in a while. I assume that you replaced the hydraulic filter at some point. Did you happen to cut the old one apart and check it for particles.?
Only the piston foot worn a bit. And no, unfortunately I didn't cut filter open to inspect.
That's only one piston. What about the other eight.? I bet that one on its own could have generated enough particles to spread throughout the system. The chances of one or more of them landing in the pump are pretty good I'd say. It's the unfortunate consequence of having the hydrostatic drive, cooling fan, and implement systems all sharing the same oil. Cross-contamination is always a real possibility.
Yes all pistons are worn like that.
So you're suggesting Implement pump is shot?
No. The implement pump is a variable displacement pump just like the drive motor but in reverse. The pump swash plate angle is controlled by a single piston from the load sensing side of the implement system. If that piston has been contaminated by particles from the drive motor failure it could be sticking in the bore every so often and causing the implement pump not to upstroke. There are probably also a dozen other possibilities of components in the implement hydraulic system that could be affected, and intermittently fail to function, as a result of contamination.
Just wanted to mention that in Post #8 in the above picture of the solenoid in your hand, on the far right side of solenoid there is a piece of o-ring missing. Zoomed in shows it. Maybe you already fixed. Simon C
Also worth pointing out that those O-Rings in the photos appear to be very flat which is usually a sign that they are also hard and no longer pliable. Can I also see a couple of particles on the screen on one photo.? If they are then that could be regarded as typical of what might flying around the rest of the system.
It's just the picture or spec of debris. O-rings were in perfect condition. I inspected and cleaned before reinstalling. I'm guessing time to take it to Cat... cause productivity is zero currently. I need this resolved. Lost 2 days troubleshooting so far. Thanks for all your suggestions.
I suspect that you have a contamination-related issue from the failed drive motor. If true it could turn out to be extremely expensive to fix. Fingers crossed for you.
That’s disappointing to hear. It seems pretty unreasonable that a failed drive motor — which is a fairly common failure item — would contaminate the entire hydraulic system and effectively cause a total system failure that costs more to repair than the machine is worth.
I should also add that I rebuilt the drive motor myself rather than replacing it with a reman unit like most people (including Cat) recommend. When I tore it down, the failure was a cracked swash plate. That’s likely a more common failure than people realize, but most people never see the root cause since the typical approach is to pull the motor and replace it rather than open it up and inspect what actually failed.
When all the drive & implement components share the same oil it is incumbent on the repairer to ensure that a full system cleaning is performed after any failure that generates a large quantity of particles. By your own admission you didn’t even cut the filter for a look. It would be interesting to see the results of an oil analysis of the hydraulic oil along with a particle count and an ISO Cleanliness Code. The dealer probably knew what they were doing when the machine was put up for sale with less than 1800 hours on it.
Update on diagnoses. I took the machine into the shop. They were never able to repeat the problem as I feared would be the case at the shop. However, they discovered 2 speed cooling fan wasn't coming on. Initially they thought solenoid was bad. They hooked computer to it to run diagnostics on solenoid and discovered 2 speed cooling fan was disabled in the ECM. For some unknown reason Cat had disabled it. It was advised the problem i was reporting would be a safety feature when set temp reached if coming fan unable to turn on, it would disable Aux Hydraulics. Now after them running machine cooling fan coming on as it should. I'm picking up machine tomorrow to put it to work this week. We shall see if that was the cause of the issue.