Hello, I recently picked up a Cat Skid Steer 249D. Everything was working fine until it suddenly stopped working. I have power but no crank/ no start. I’m thinking it might be a safety switch. I’ve checked starter and it’s good. I tested the starter and it works perfectly fine. Attached is a picture of the cluster and the lights that I have on while the switch is on. Any help is appreciated. TIA.
If you were sitting in the seat with the lap bar down when you took that photo then either the operator seat pressure switch or the lap bar switch are acting up. Also the single icon below the other three is showing that the work tool lockout is activated. If you would like an electrical schematic to help with your diagnostics please post a Serial Number. By the sounds of it you don't have an Operation & Maintenance Manual. I think Cat Publication SEBU9084 is the correct one but it depends on your S/N. https://www.ebay.com/itm/313726772833
I am having the exact same problem on my 272c , if i lower the arm rest the seat belt light goes out.
That's what should happen Doug. Sounds like a door switch or something else. What exactly is going on? And s/n please.
S/n RED00782 my machine was left running and stalled when I returned to it . When I went to start it yellow exclamation mark blinking and work tool lockout light red, machine shows codes 358-6, 681-6,and 598-6 all solenoids current above normal. I have confirmed continuity from J plugs to solenoids and also checked them all for continuity to ground and it all checks out . Park lock solenoid has 6.5 ohms resistance (I’m not sure what is normal) Other 2 solenoids have 6.9 and 7 ohms resistance , I can start the machine by shorting across starter relay but can not get the work tool lockout to come off.
Attached the troubleshooting procedures for the three Active codes you have. Try running them all and see where it gets you. I'll send you an electrical schematic. Keep an eye on your messages.
Update from OP.......... " i tried unplugging all 3 solenoids one at a time and all 3 gave me the same results of changing to a FMI 05 code . I see this says to replace solenoids. But I have a question. Isn't it odd that all three would fail same time? Also remember this whole problem started when my machine was left idling and stalled on its own ,we also found out the battery was failing a load test ( it was only a few months old) so I charged the battery and it passed a load test and I went ahead and installed a new alternator in the machine thinking maybe it failed and caused the battery to die and potentially stalled the machine? Is there any chance I could be right about alternator failing and potentially damaging solenoids? Thoughts.? " Resistance of solenoid coils was outside spec, but only just - spec is 7.5 +/- 0.4 ohms and they came in at 6.9 & 7.0 ohms. OP has replaced all three solenoids with new and the Diagnostic Codes have not gone away.
Make sure you're cycling the battery isolator (or disconnecting the battery) before checking if the codes are still active. What's the battery voltage on the new battery across the battery posts? Does this change when you hit the start key? The voltage numbers are important. If all that's ok, check the machine ECM is getting the proper powers (key on & constant) and grounds as per your schematic. For that you'll need some spoons on your multimeter. Again the voltage values are important. If that checks out fine, it's time to run some new wires between the machine ECM and those solenoids. Cycle isolator, check for codes. If they're gone, you had a harness issue. If they're not, your ECM is bad.
Will try this then reply . Chrisso
Just had a thought... just before you go to the trouble of running 6 new wires, start by disconnecting a pair of wires from the ECM first (pick one of those troubleshooting procedures Nige posted above) and let 'em dangle. One of those codes must change from a -6 to a -5. If it doesn't, stop there and let us know.
I did that on all the solenoids one at a time and they all changed to a 05 code current below normal when i disconnected the plugs .
Ok great. Doing this just ruled out the solenoid energise circuit to each solenoid. Unfortunately the Cat diagnostic procedures just focus on the energise circuit and don't offer much help from hereon. Also disregard my comments about running wires. I just realised the H807 wire is common on all three of your three faulting solenoid circuits. They all join up creating the return circuit, and lead to pin #4 on the J2 machine ECM plug. Running new wires wouldn't be practical, sorry 'bout that. So, given we have three solenoids faulting and all of them share a common return circuit, one would suspect that return circuit. This is it in it's simplest form... Find and inspect all harnesses in the homemade doodling above. Find CONN 1, CONN 2 & CONN 12. Actual machine locations are in your schematic. Pull apart, look, clean, blow dry, put back together, check for codes. If that doesn't fix it we'll try some other tricks.
I just discovered that I only have 0.9 volts at all three solenoids with key on arm bar down and seat sensor jumped across ? I checked door switch and I have 13.1 volts at plug
Did you investigate the continuity of the common ground wire for all three solenoids as described by Chrisso above.?
I did test continuity to all three solenoids from j plug to solenoids and all were good , I also checked for continuity to ground and none failed . I did not find conn12 yet
Ground at the ECM end of the harness, or to machine frame ground.?
Machine frame ground
Sorry that's not correct. Pin 4 on connector J2 of the ECM is marked as a dedicated solenoid return for wire H807 Yellow. That is the how the return for the circuits for those three solenoids is completed, and what the ECM checks for (in addition to the power side of the circuit) when setting Diagnostic Codes. It has nothing to do with grounding to the machine frame. Try this. 1. Locate CONN 1 & CONN 2 on the machine and disconnect both of them. (You do not have to worry about CONN 12 just yet because it connects to an accessory you do not have). 2. Disconnect connector J2 at the ECM. 3. Disconnect the 2-pin connectors at all three solenoids. 4. Check for continuity as follows. All wires will be Yellow: - a) Wire H807-P19 between the Implement shutoff solenoid and Pin 33 on the half of CONN 2 that contains the male pins. b) Wire H807-C33 between Pin 33 on the female (socket) half of CONN 2 and Pin 4 of ECM connector J2. c) Wire H807-E12 between the Park Brake solenoid and Pin 38 on the male half of CONN 1. d) Wire H807-C34 between Pin 38 on the female (socket) half of CONN 1 and Pin 4 of ECM connector J2. e) Wire H807-E56 between the 2-Speed solenoid and Pin 36 on the male half of CONN 1. f) Wire H807-C33 between Pin 36 on the female (socket) side of CONN 1 and Pin 4 of ECM connector J2. Report your results.
Everything you asked me to check all has continuity
Grab hold of the H807 Yellow wire where it goes into the J2 connector and do a "pull test". Gently pull the wire as though you are trying to remove it from the connector housing. It shouldn't move. Once you have confirmed whether it moves or not push it inwards as far as it will go. Is the interior of the J2 connector (where the sockets are) clean and free from signs of damp or corrosion.? Also carefully inspect the socket of J2 Pin 4 and check if it is split, bulged, or damaged in any other way.
Ok will do , I need to check schematic for conn12 location .
That was going to be the next step. CONN 12 on your machine should have nothing connected to it but it’s worth inspecting the condition of it to make sure it’s not somehow providing a path for current to ground.
Found conn12 , 6 pin plug with 5 wires in it capped off. I tested yellow wire and I have continuity to pin 4 on J2 also have continuity to plug on implement shut off solenoid plug . But no continuity to other 2 solenoid plugs
That's what would be expected. Wire H807 to CONN 12 connects to the same Pin 33 in CONN 2 as H807 at the Implement Shutoff solenoid. There is a splice shown in the harness. With connector J2 disconnected and both CONN 1 & CONN 2 connected you should have continuity in Wire H807 between CONN 12 Pin 3 and the same wire H807 in the 2-pin connectors for both the 2-Speed and Park brake solenoids. See Chrisso's abbreviated diagram in Post #12.
Yes your correct Nige , I have continuity to all now
That's everything I can think of to check. I'd welcome Chrisso's opinion but I think your ECM has gone AWOL. I can't think of anything else it can be.
What about the fact that I’m not getting anymore than 0.9 volts at my solenoids ?
Because they should each be de-energized until the engine is running and the switch for the park brake, implement lockout, or 2-speed is activated. Are you measuring that voltage between the power wire and frame ground or to H807 back to the ECM.?
H807 back to ECM
I'd like to rule out that .9 volts at your solenoid isn't a short to power. I know you've checked continuity but we heading down an ECM replacement path, so the checks are worth it. We also need to rule out the newly installed solenoids haven't been fried. Pick the easiest solenoid to access, just worry about that one from now on. Remove solenoid, check resistance again, make sure it's close to spec as mentioned on the previous page (post #7 I think). If it is, continue on... Use a pin-out tool and remove that H807 wire at #4 of the J2 ECM plug completely, let it dangle. Use a new wire and run it directly to #2 of the solenoid we're concentrating on. The wire in position #1 on that solenoid is verified as working correctly, so leave that exactly where it is. Cycle isolator, key on, don't do anything else. The two other solenoids will go -5 current below normal since they're open circuit now. The solenoid you chose to concentrate on should have zero codes active. If it still has a -6 current above normal you have an ECM failure. Let us know what you find.
In case you are wondering what a pin-out tool is - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132394225527 They are on sale in all the popular online marketplaces. Using the tool means that wires don’t have to be cut.
Ok thanks Nige and Chrisso, I have to go away to work for a few days , I will do this and report with my results when I get back .Doug