I remember reading that CAT been updating the problematic D-series machines with the new style D3 lift/transfer fuel pump. From the pics I can find online it seems like the main filter housing is part of the lift pump on the new style D3 pumps. Was just at my local dealer and the Saturday parts lady was of no help, they had the old style pump in stock for around $200 but I think I would rather bite the bullet and upgrade now if I can confirm that it’s a simple retrofit, can anyone confirm this? Unfortunately I can’t find where I read about this months ago. New style Old
Don't know of any retrofit kits as such but Cat has upgraded this pump... Old p/n 416-5886 to new p/n 552-5534 pump. Seem to be less issues with the new p/n... the 416-5884 replaceable plastic filter p/n stays the same.
This is what I used as replacement... usually in stock at Napa https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...041bb5fff241197eae88d494b8b08b0d&gclsrc=3p.ds
The fuel transfer pump for the D3 is integral to the head of the fuel filter (left), and to add insult to injury it is not sold separately, only as part of the 525-3457 fuel filter assembly. On the face of it you would have to install the complete filter assembly from a D3 machine and also likely also have to modify the fuel lines (right). To me it seems more trouble than it's worth.
Seems like a good option for sure. Would be nice to find the specs on the cat pump. Well shoot, why do you want to go and make me think twice!? yeah, I feel you may be right. I guess if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, and if the newer part is improved… just roll with it. not to mention that part number lists for $620! Thanks guys.
Ain't this the same pump, sans the head.
According to the parts breakdown of the 525-3457 Filter/Pump Gp from another source the P/N for just the pump is a 512-4031. The only place I can find that P/N listed is in three specific Electrical Schematics, all of them for the D3-series machines. The 228-9129 (which BTW is the P/N for the complete filter/pump Gp, not just the pump) services to 349-1063 and in certain cases (BHL) to 501-4461. Unfortunately none of those numbers lists the P/N for the pump as a separate item. It's possible the pump in the advertisement above might fit the fuel filter assembly on a D3-series machine but I can't find any info anywhere to confirm that.
Just wondering if you went through with this. I have been fighting fuel pump issues for years and was considering doing this upgrade. Seems like the small cat pumps only last a couple of years and now cat wants north of $230 for them. I have replaced them a couple of times now and even $600 would be worth it if it means not getting stuck in the middle of a job. I did find this pump that I am pretty sure is what CAT is rebranding: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=9807 Thoughts? Thanks!
8n reference to one I pasted above (Stanadyne), 99% of the time, that pump is good and the inlet on the filter head assembly is restricted. Complete head disassembly is easy. When apart, run a wire or a high pressure air through the inlet to the outer concentric stem that filter mates to. Then, add a Napa inline screen (3972) in the supply line. Out of the 20+ machines here that use that style pump (12&24v), I've only ever had a 24v unit fail on a Deere 544J.
Thinking out loud I wonder how many of those complete pump/filter assemblies have been changed out in the past when passages in the filter head blocked with contamination was all that was wrong with them.? Hundreds I would think.
So you have retrofitted some of your machines with that one? My concern is that there is a sensor connected to the bottom of the main filter. I wonder what the CAT will do without that connected.
I did have some contamination which you helped me with on another thread here. That reduced my issues 90 percent. The small filter in the lift pump has maybe a 1/16 inch hole which blocks pretty easy. I normally stop the machine when it throws an error, and blow out the filter and start again and it works for a while. I also noticed the lift pump has been working intermittently now, which allows flow still, but also craps out when I seem to be at full power. It made for a frustrating weekend of work at about 50% power.
These 3 fuel assemblies look interesting to me too: https://www.amazon.com/Integral-Fue...sprefix=fuel+pump+filter+lift,aps,174&sr=8-11 https://www.amazon.com/Facet-40285-...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl https://www.amazon.com/Assembly-804...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
The new style has a return line from the engine, with a check assembly in that (the third port). I have no idea how many GPH the either style is, nor why it doesn't have the third connection.
Looks like the air purge is on the fuel filter housing, so, dropping in the new style would be just an in and out connection, but it will definitely require a Napa 3972 inline screen prior to it.
Well, after much research, I ended up ordering: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8744 To me this looks like the pump that CAT rebrands. I am also going to switch away from the CAT Pre fuel filter and I decided to go with this filter: https://amzn.to/3Ymwh5E Seems like if is higher micron and doesn’t suffer from the issues I have with the CAT ones. I will make a video about the process when I do the swap.
Is that inline filter diesel compatible? I've had issues with the cellulose type inline filters when used in a suction scenario, on diesels.
That is a great question . It's hard to get a straight answer out of anyone on the internet. Some people say "If it works for Gas, then it will work for Diesel". I have been trying to find a decent pre filter, but almost all the reviews say these plastic ones break. So who knows. What kind of problems have you seen? I have now installed the new pump and fuel filter and the new pump is so much quieter than the Original Cat pump. However, I was running it today and I got the same Fuel Leakage error I was getting before, so this didn't fix my problem either.
The inline screen is compatible with diesel, it's only trying to keep out the big debris. A gasoline filter will not work for long, because it is too fine. To filter diesel, you need a more square feet of filter media in a bigger package than a lawn mower filter.
Save yourself the time & trouble. Don't bother with a filter obviously designed for gasoline............... As Delmer points out above the purpose of the screen is to remove the diesel equivalent of "children, small dogs, & tree branches", not to fine filter the fuel. It's worth remarking at this point that it helps if clean fuel is put in the tank right from the get-go. In years gone by Cat tank caps had the wording "Buy Clean Fuel. Keep it clean". They should never have discontinued them IMHO.
That is interesting. I wonder if it is causing my fuel leak error that the Cat is throwing. Unfortunately I did have a fuel contamination issue a couple years ago when my truck fueling tank lid was not put back correctly causing hay and debris to get into the tank. I have flushed that tank and added screens inside the tank and to my cat tank. I have tried to flush my cat tank several times, used biocides, but I still occasionally suck up some larger debris, so I still need something in front of the priming pump. I wish I could get my cat tank out, but that is a major project that won’t happen till the engine has to come out, which I hope never happens .
The "something in front of the priming pump" has been discussed many times on here. Throw that filter away and install a Napa 3972 inline SCREEN. You can search "3972" on here for more sagas over debris from poor fueling practices.
Need to correct what I said here in post #2. The OP was correct (and a few others in other threads), there is a Cat update that upgrades a D/D2 series transfer pump to the D3 style mentioned in this thread. You'll need to ask her next time to look up a "Special Instruction" on that pump, and ask her to order you all the parts in the parts list of that procedure that relate to your serial number. That shouldn't be too hard. Once all the parts are in front of you it takes less then an hour to swap everything over. Only three hoses to worry about. Note the new pump has the inlet/outlet ports reversed. Some machines get a new (smaller) coolant recovery tank to make it work, others don't, important you give the correct s/n. This is the older style filter's air bleed valve as mentioned in heymccall's post above, it's on the dirty side of the filter and relies on the little separate filter attached to the lift pump to catch the mentioned "children, small dogs, & tree branches" that would otherwise block this orifice... The D3 pumps have air bleed orifice on the clean side. Before: After: Note this upgrade does away with the little filter attached to the old transfer pump. I thought that was silly, so I added in a little 100 micron 1G-7206 in-line filter to at least stop the tree branches. Same one fitted to all the other Cat skid steers and mini-HEXs. A nappa 3972 I'm sure would do the same thing. Thought it was worth sharing.
The document in question is publication reference M104468. It covers all machines in the list below.
I guess old is new. I swear I've seen that style of pump on the old B series skid steers.
There's also a service magazine that makes this adaptable to many other CTL/MTL/SSL machines including D2's and early D3's fitted with the older style pump/filter. One thing I didn't mention is there's a bolt hole that needs to be drilled in the machine frame. When comparing both coolant tanks you'll see what I mean. Just having the 3 bolts holding that coolant tank is enough IMHO. Find an appropriate drill bit, drive the bolt in with an impact gun. No thread taping required.
Correction: It is actually M0104468. The Service Magazine referred to by Chrisso above is M0134365.
You have, and C's too... .
The fuel pump went out on my cat 299d2 around 1200 hours. I purchased thiis one on Ebay. The electric plug did not match up, however I just rewired it. The fuel filter that came with the pump, as shown also did not fit the pump. So i installed the Frame inline fuel filter as shown in the post above. It works fine, and I figured if the cat pump went out within 1200 hrs, then I can't buy much worse than the cat brand.