My JD 319D will not crank fast enough to start (less than 180 RPM). I replaced the starter (burned out the old one), battery, and checked the wires for voltage at the starter. Everything seems fine. The manual says it could be from engine load due to hydraulics. Is there a solenoid or something that opens during cranking to reduce the drag on the engine? Is there an easy way to determine if this is the correct diagnosis such as remove the hydraulic filter and put a bucket underneath just to see if it starts? Any help appreciated.
Serial number? Do you have pressure gauges?
I have a fuel pressure gauge kit. I can get whatever I need to diagnose. Thanks.
The "D" series can be difficult at best to troubleshoot hard start issues. They have had a bunch of issues with starting. Is this an issue that has recently cropped up? What engine oil do you use? You will need a 1000 psi gauge to plug into the test fitting at the hydraulic filter. You will also need to test fuel pressure to insure that the fuel supply is good. What pressure fuel gauge do you have? Do you have an infrared temp gun?
Yes, this is a new issue. I have never had any trouble starting in warm weather. The engine oil is Rotella 15w-40. The fuel pressure test kit is from Harbor Freight. I can get a 1000 psi gauge and infrared temp gun if needed. The machine has been disabled for a couple of months in an area where I cannot get it on a trailer to transport. I do not think it is a fuel issue. The machine definitely cranks much slower than before and also drains the battery much faster with any long crank time.
It is highly recommended to use 0W-40 synthetic in those engines. But if you have not had an issue before in cold weather, then stick to what you are using. When you get a gauge, there is a test fitting at the hydraulic filter head. See what pressure you are reading there when cranking.
I will definitely change to 0W-40 next time. Do you know the what size thread for the test port? i plan on 3000 psi buying a gauge from Northern Tool. I have the manual but it only refers to the specific Deere tool.
Buy a diagnostic quick coupler to attach to the coupler on the filter. This is what I use with a whip hose: https://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-Equipment-Coupler-Female-Thread/dp/B0978NMQ3N/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?crid=1MOI1TNCJOP3G&keywords=parker+diagnostic+quick+coupler&qid=1660296201&sprefix=parker+diagnostic+quick+coupler,aps,329&sr=8-12-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFNSjJOSVZXSTJSQlUmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAyMzI0MTAxTjlGWkFYWFlMVzA4JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA2NzU4MTYzNTlKMUlPQ0dTM0ZEJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ== Or this directly to a gauge or with a whip hose: https://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-E...04-ba65-0416a534d2fc&pd_rd_i=B08BHYSSR6&psc=1
Thanks. I ordered a gauge and quick coupler. I will update once I get a reading.
Finally got my gauge and coupler. I got a reading of 300 psi. Thanks
A) exhaust smoke when cranking? II) defective starting motor c) poor battery capacity or charge state? Is starter of known brand? Is battery high enough CCA? Does it have a preheat function? How many hours on machine?
300 psi means the cold start bypass valve is functioning correctly. I don't think parasitic load is your issue. You replaced a starter and a battery. Did you actually perform a voltage drop check on the positive and negative cables? You could have an internally corroded cable or a bad ground. You could eliminate parasitic load by acquiring fittings and couplers to plug into your auxiliary quick couplers. Crank and see if there is pressure there.
There is smoke when cranking. Replaced the starter motor with Bosch starter. Brant new battery, fully charged with correct CCA It has a preheat function but ambient temperature is hot enough it is not necessary it has about 1500 hours.
I tested voltage at the starter but not a voltage drop test. What is the best way to perform the test? I cleaned and checked all the connection so if it is a bad ground it would have to be in the wire. How would I use the couplers to check the aux hydraulics? I have a root rake with grapples that I could connect. I could also use the hose just to create a loop for the aux hydraulics. Thank you for the info and recommendations.
If you connect the root rake to the couplers, crank the engine and see if anything moves. For the positive cable, positive lead of the meter to the positive battery post, negative lead of your meter to the starter battery post. Crank the engine. You should not have more than 0.1 volt per foot of cable. For the negative, negative lead of the meter to the negative post, positive lead of the meter to the starter frame. Crank engine. Same spec, 0.1 volt per foot of cable.
I got a reading of .27 volts on the positive and .11 on the negative. I also used jumper cables and attached the positive directly to the pole on the starter and there was no changing in cranking speed. The grapple did not move when cranking so I guess I have eliminated the possible hydraulic issue. Ugh. What to try next? Thanks
Press and hold the menu button until "Service Menu" appears in the screen. Scroll to diagnostics. Scroll to fuel pressure. What is your fuel pressure while cranking? If I have time later when I am at work, I'll PM you some information.
8 PSI. It stumbles like it is trying to start. I tried spraying some diesel in the air intake but didn't seem to make a difference. Thanks again.
Pressure should be adequate to start. You might want to put a clear line in the fuel return circuit back to tank with a vertical loop in it. Crank the engine and see how much air is in the line after it it fills with fuel. Check your PM's.
Thanks for the info. Questions based on possible issues: 1. Low fuel pressure: Is there anything beside diesel that I can spray into the air intake? I've read that starter fluid can damage a diesel? I figure if i can get it started that way, I know it is definitely a fuel issue. 2. Camshaft timing has slipped: Could camshaft timing causes the engine to turn over slower? How can I determine if it has slipped? I have no active codes. 3. Low engine compression: Low engine compression should increase cranking speed I would think. 4. Faulty EUP: Should start if I spray fuel in air intake. Thanks for all the help.
1. It may start on ether either, depending on what the issue is. 2. It could, if it is trying to start compression earlier. Special tooling needed to check cam timing. It can be out enough to keep you from starting without throwing codes. 3. Usually 4. Not if it is allowing compression up past the injector seal. Does it huff out the blowby tube while cranking?
I sprayed a little ether into the air intake and it did not effect anything. Is it possible that the cam and/or crank shaft position sensor is causing the issue? I am going to pull them and test with a meter for Ohms. I cannot find what the acceptable range it.
Slow cranking speed does affect the cam sensor readings, but not affect the crank sensor. That is why cranking speed is important. However I have seen plenty of engines start just fine at 180 rpm cranking speed. And I have seen engines with 220 rpm not start. The sensors will not make a difference with ether, so you may have another issue. Still have to rule out some basics. Fuel pressure should be adequate. But try pinching the return line when cranking to see if it will start. Be aware that the fuel return line might pop off the back of the head because of the spring clamp on it. I usually replace that with a worm clamp. If it starts release the pinched hose immediately. Might want an assistant for this. Make sure there is no air in the fuel system. Air intake system good? No obstructions? The sensors are 2500-3500 ohms.
"I sprayed a little ether into the air intake and it did not effect anything." I'd spray a good shot of ether . If it doesn't try to start, knock, or make some smoke my guess is it's something internal.
Doug; Do you happen to have a thread going on the SkidSteer forum for this same problem ?
Issue Resolved: I feel a little stupid that I never thought of this but let me summarize the whole thing. I was out of the machine while it was sitting idling when suddenly it changed how it sounded. I went over and shut it off. When I went back 10 minutes later it turned over much slower but it started. I moved it and shut it off for the day. When I went back it would not start. Symptom was slow cranking with no codes thrown. Thought it was a possible fuel issue or hydraulic load issue Here is what I did: I replaced the battery Burned out a starter and replaced. Replace inline fuel filter and fuel filter water separator. Checked and replace all fuel lines, check valve and low pressure fuel lift pump. (Fuel pressure would build to 7 PSI after long crank.) Tested hydraulic pressure at filter. (passed 300 PSI) Tested battery cables. (passed) Sprayed some staring fluid in the intake. (still not start) Today I clamped the return fuel line and turned over. It made a squealing sound for a couple of seconds and still cranked slow with not start. The squealing sound made me think maybe the alternator or water pump was bad. I touched the pulley on the alternator and it was hot. Took the serpentine belt off and cranked at normal speed at started!!! A bad bearing in the alternator would not allow the engine to crank fast enough to start. I hope this helps someone else. I want to thank all the people who tried to help especially mg2361!!!