416C s/n 5yn6433. I replaced all the orings in the resolvers , all the backhoe valve , all in the loader valve. After the machine gets up to temperature the loader gets lazy and will only lift 7 feet high unless you hit another function like the stick crowd. I wonder if the signal line has some sort of issue causing the pump not to stroke.
IMO that's a problem in the resolver network. As you look through the resolver network the problem will most probably lie in the control valve immediately before the lift function. Reference #1 is the primary resolver for each particular circuit, #2 is the secondary resolver. Only the Steering circuit (J) has a single (secondary) resolver which feeds via outlet K to the pump compensator. The circuits are as follows: - A) RH Stabilizer circuit. B) LH Stabilizer circuit. C) Boom circuit. D) Swing circuit. E) Bucket circuit. F) Stick circuit. G) Lift circuit. H) Tilt circuit. J) Steering circuit. K) Feed to pump compensator.
We replaced all the o rings in the resolvers in the rear valve. Are you saying the valve itself needs to be disassembled and inspected. I am aware of one case where the signal line was collapsing. Thanks for the input.
hi, I agree with Nige sounds like a resolver problem. Just curios could you highlight what you resealed on the valve lease
16 A , B , C and all parts labeled 18. I am going to check the signal line.
did you also reseal and check the loader control valve ? it is separate from the rear backhoe valve bank Mark
The guy I took it to replaced every resolver o ring in every function on the backhoe valve and the loader valve. It acts like a resolver issue. You can pull the lever and the loader will raise up so far and it quits. You can pull the lever and hear the pump work but its like its not fully engaging. If you are pulling the loader lever back to lift and engage another function it will lift like it should. Do I need to remove the entire loader valve or could it be possible the relief is weak? The hoe is strong as it ever was.
I got to use the 416 more today. I noticed the boom was getting comparable to the front loader , when bringing the boom up it would just stop. More noticeable after the machine got to operating temp. I know when the machine is working properly it will pick the boom up at idle loaded no problem. I let it set for about and hour and got back on it at first it is a little better but after 10 minutes it slows down again. The tilt on the front and 4n1 work fine , the bucket and dipper seem fine. The outriggers seem lazy as well. I need help on this , its getting aggravating to say the least. I wish I had the proper gauges to check pressures cold and then when it gets hot. One thing I have been using AW32 oil in the hydraulics I have been told numerous times that was ok. If that could be a problem I'll drain it and I can get 10W chevron. One other thing I noticed was the boom control lever seemed to have a vibration of sorts when the boom would stop crowding. Could it be a relief valve has gotten weak?
I think you should be checking cycle times to identify problem areas and pressure check the system. have you checked filters and restrictions to pump inlet? Mark
Does the lift come good if you operate ANY other circuit or ONLY certain other circuits (including steering)?
CMark , it seems that if you actuate any other function including the tilt and 4n1 the lift will come on. As the machine gets hotter towards working temp it all slows down. Mark , I'll get a new filter today and where would I check the pump inlet screen? I'll clean it anyway when I put the new filter on.I hope to solve this problem 1 to be more productive , 2 if anyone else has this issue they will have a reference to go to. I know my mechanic said none of the little orings in the resolvers looked bad but we changed them anyway.
It still sounds like the secondary resolver in the lift valve is the problem. If it were me, I would be replacing the resolver cartridge. Part number 9T8537.
I'll get it ordered , should I change the any other of these in any other valve? Does it just unscrew and go right back in or are there the little steel balls in there as well? I know I had bought that part , I'm beginning to wonder if my guy put it in the lift valve of just did the rear bank. I will look closer tomorrow to see if it has been disassembled. I know I told him to replace all of these due to the fact the entire rear bank was exposed while a new swing frame was installed. The question remains did he do the front valve as well.
The valve comes as an assembly with the ball inside. You say you bought one? There is one in each valve section so if they were replaced you would have bought 8 or 9 of them, and you would know about it because the last time I bought them they were 60 something dollars apiece. Now I'm typing this, I'm having a moment of self doubt that that one is the secondary resolver. It may actually be item 16 in post #4. I don't have access to SIS right now. Can someone confirm which is the primary and which is the secondary?
hi Cmark item 16 is the secondary resolver. there have been some changes to the resolver network on the machines. some of the resolvers in the primary and secondary circuits now have orifices in them. you have to be very careful that you replace them with the correct one. There was a service mag put out that detailed all the changes which included separating the loader section from the hoe section and included additional resolvers,pump changes and orifice addition's. if yours has been updated ordering resolvers from your serial number range may cause a problem. the media number for this upgrade is REHS0973 I have included a tutorial on how to properly check the resolver net work for your serial number but not for the upgrade version View attachment TROUBLESHOOTING THE RESOLVER NETWORK ON C SERIES BACKHOE LOADERS.pdf Mark
I am certain my machine has not had the updates. I have had it since it had 1000 hrs on it which was 2001. Tomorrow I will post some pics so possibly you guys could point out which resolvers need replacing. Is it as simple as unscrewing the old one and installing the new one? This machine is at 5000hr mark it runs well and after repairs its tight. It used to be very responsive. I use to could pick a manhole base up at low idle with the front loader , you can forget that now. I hate to bash the machine or even consider a new one over a few hundred dollars in parts. I thank you all again and will get pics up tomorrow so hopefully we can resolve the issue no pun intended.
First of all I would start with confirming exactly what was replaced and where. If the loader valve hasn't been looked at, replace the O rings on its resolvers. The ones you indicated were changed in the backhoe valves in post #5 are the correct ones. If you still have a problem after confirming that this has been done you really need to check the working pressure with a gauge to properly diagnose which resolver is faulty. Going off your description of the problem (ie. ONLY the loader is slow) I would still go for the secondary resolver but would prefer to confirm that none of the other circuits have a problem which isn't apparent when operating it. The resolvers aren't cheap and I hate fixing machines by shooting them with the parts gun.
Assuming all the seals are new/good, would it not be relatively easy to swap a couple resolvers to try and pinpoint the problem area?
Primary resolvers are easy to get at and can be swapped. The secondary resolvers on the loader valve bank usually means the valve has to be moved to gain access Mark
In practice I think from memory that the secondary resolvers in the loader valve are hard to get to, and to access the primary resolvers you may need to remove some hoses and maybe the nipples from the valve. But in theory, yes, that's an option.
I plan to look under the machine tomorrow morning to see if I can find evidence that all these resolvers were replaces such as fresh wrench marks etc. My gut at this time is telling me that after reading the last few posts the job was not done in a proper manner. I give the repair shop a 3000$ deposit up front and they didn't ask for it.
1st pic , back of the hoe valve , I think he removed the Allen head screws and put o rings on those across the entire bank. 2 nd pic setting under the hoe facing rearward , this is the stick and bucket side , they have good power and speed. 3rd pic , setting under hoe facing rearward , swing and boom side , both functions are lazy , actuating another function helps. 4th pic , stick bucket side works fine. 5th pic loader valve , tilt and 4n1 work fine , loader is very lazy after up to running temp loader is almost no response. Hope these help and again I appreciate your time.
1st picture is where the 2ndary resolves are at, they also have a check ball That will fall out if you are not carefull. It could be that he changed the orings but that the check ball fell out causing it to still malfunction. You are going to have to check all the resolves to make sure the job was done correctly.
Still having trouble with this , I hope to talk to my guy and see what was changed and what was not. This is getting old.
you need to follow test procedure in pdf on post #15. its getting old because you haven't pinned down the exact fault. I'll repeat you need to test not guess Mark
I agree , the thing is I told my guy to put all the resolvers in it and he said he did. I'm not sure the primary resolvers were changed either. At this point and time I can say I've spent enough to put us on a damn good holiday. Never the less I need this fixed. Thank you for your input. And please advise as you see fit.
I do have a question , the allen head on the rear of the valve bodies are the secondary resolvers , I posted pics to sort out where the primary resolvers are. Can you point these out on my pics ? Damndest thing ever for me. The loader works well when first starting , after 30 to 45 minutes it gets weak. I just hate the fact a few dollars in parts are causing me this grief.
You can't see the primary resolvers in any of your pics. They are an allen head screw recessed in a counterbore in the bottom of the valve. I think the spool end cap partly covers them and you may have to remove it to allow the resolver to come out.