I need to get this old girl up and running to clear snow so the mail plane can land next week. Last winter I had to use a propane torch and a blow dryer to get it running on the diesel side alone. The ignition and points were bad on the gas side. Oh.....its an International Harvester gas/diesel hybrid engine 4 cyl. I am not a mechanic but I can do "stuff". I got it running and the cannery people used it this summer. Now its zero degrees, wont start....and it looks like someone messed with the throttle linkage. I have spark and fuel (on the gas side) but fuel is running out the over flow tube of the carb. Does anyone have any ideas to help? Please. This machine is an oldie but sure gets the job done for clearing snow in the winter. If I could get her running better I would even try my hand at moving dirt and rocks next summer on the roads. No one here really knows how to do it, but I saw many years ago the way the guy who knew how....did it. And I have watched just about every video on this site. Meanwhile this winter I would like to get more experience moving snow again. We are in the "bush" there is no auto parts store or anything like that, I have to make do with what I have. Would pictures help? Can anybody help? Thanks in advance. :Banghead
Sounds to me that the needle valve is stuck. Take the carb off and clean it thoroughly. if I remember correctly that is an old school updraft carb, simple as Hell. it is possible to start those on diesel if they are warm with some ether and a lot of luck. Its pretty hard to get them to crank fast enough but if the starter's up to it it will go. Clean the carb first though. DO NOT mess with the linkage unless you have a service manual handy or a 200 year old man that knows how those things work.
Can you pull start her?
Thanks, tomorrow when the sun is up. I will have a go at it again. Maybe take some pictures. Yes, the carb is simple enough for even this alaska girl to give it a try. Unfortunately there are no 200 year old men around LOL A pilot who lives in a nearby town will fly over maybe on Monday to give me a hand. He used to grade roads in Gustavus Alaska , a LONG time ago, but used this same kind of grader. If he can fly over here before we get get too much more snow................
Deere500a...Do you mean by hand? I could try what I did last winter and hold my face just right and hope for luck and whatever the heck else might help the diesel to go......with it so cold.....I just would like it to run LOL My swear words could get a really good work out.
If it is a manual transmission with a clutch, turn the power and fuel on, pull it with another machine, pop the clutch.
Oh I wish........ But I dont have anything to pull it with. But thanks for clarifying, and trying to help.
Alaska, the machine your working on runs a international harverster gas over diesel engine, which you already know. If you can get me numbers off the motor, I can probably find out which ag tractor ran the same set up, there is alot more info over on red power for dealing with these than there is here. I do know this, you need to let that motor warm up well and cool down well after you finish using it religiously, they like to crack heads and there are not too many heads left, even down here in the lower 48 where spares are relatively easy to find.
Do you have AC power within reach? If not a generator? If either Joe or I can get over there we can plumb it for a heater to help. Getting it running 1 time should not be to much of a problem but it would be nice to make it reliable in the future. last time I was in your neck of the woods was back in the 70's It would be fun to see how it has changed. We need to work around the weather as we both plow snow here. Weather report is for up to 14" tonight but hopefully it would brake up later this week. "Catch 22" You need this to plow the runway so a plane can land and we need to land there to repair it. I will check with you to find out how things look before we fly over. Dwan
Stumpjumper, I will get numbers tomorrow in the "light" of day. I am pretty sure the head on my baby is the original. I have been here about 35 years and I am pretty sure that part never broke. But I wasn't always interested in the heavy equipment here either. I am going to call the old "beach boss" tomorrow and check with him and also get some hints of things to try..
Alaska chick just to test turn the gas on and let it overflow then turn the gas off try to start it if that is all that is wrong it should start and run till it emptys the bowl (maybe) if it does adjust the cutoff valve to keep it running ,with some luck it will work long enough to switch it to diesel
Dwan...... yes we have AC with a gas fueled battery charger. We have lots of fun stuff to play with over here, unfortunately most of it very old and not well maintained by the current owners. Their philosophy seems to be to only fix things after they break down and then only jury-rig it. I miss the good old days of XIP and Wards Cove Packing. We were always well supported by WCP for the winter.... now often we buy our own fresh groceries from Super Bear and fix things far better than the summer crew ever does....... AND we do it in the cold and dark ! We only have 2" of snow here and are hoping it kind of stays that way until we have a "runner" We are in a bit of a "snow/rain shadow" from Gustavus. It dumps on the Gustavus side and then mostly skips us until it hits the Chilkats. In spite of everything.........I love it here! Yep the catch 22...... Chuck flew over here a couple of times in his helicopter just to plow the road so he could land his plane!
The early ones had a mag driven off the gearcase, the new ones (LOL) had a normal distributor at any rate your going to need both spark and fuel to get it running on the gas side for warmup......They had a decompession rod for gas startup on the crawlers it was operated from the firewall in the seat but the graders may have been activated standing beside the engine, it will trun over faster once the decompression is active if your in doubt which way the lever goes. I would leave the fuel off until you have this all figured out and only open the gas tank petcock right before your ready to give it a try. Those things liked some choke so play with that while starting......if it does go let it warmup on the gas side then with your diesel fuel petcock open take the decompression off with it's linkage and at that point the gas side should be done it's thing so you can close it's fuel petcock. Guys said to switch them back to gas for cooldown but if you forget the change the decompression system back once it's off you can warp the starting valves.......I would just idle it down for abit on diesel and shut it off that way, should be no problem getting cooling temps there by now.......good luck! Forgot to say I would resist the urge to try and start it directly on diesel, your temps right now are working against you, usually the ones that started on diesel where a wore out engine that really didn't have the compression it was supposed to and those early starters weren't built robust enough for direct starting.......take it easy on the starter if it gets warm give it a break......hopefully the machine wasn't left with summer fuel in it.......
Thank you We have a "newer one" with a distributor, which is good and working. A new rotor is in place. I dont have the right socket to get the plugs out so tomorrow I am going to go figure out what size I need and get one sent out. Narrowing down the problem here a little at a time. I am also going to check that I had the decompression lever in the right place......... I thought I did, but sitting here tonight............... Yes, once it warms up on gas, I switch it over to diesel, turn off the gas and turn off the key......then after working, go back, park, reverse it back to gas to cool down, rinse, repeat.... Right now I almost wish we had the "older" model
I just really appreciate all the hints and help and suggestions everyone has given both here and in PM's. I keep reminding myself....THIS IS FUN!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
I think the size for those plugs is 7/8" bit it could be 15/16", they are an oddball plug now so be careful with them..........I would just throttle it down after your down and shut it off on diesel, it avoids the warped valve issues if you forget to put the compression linkage back to diesel mode or full compression.......... Passing a thin fingernail file through the points should help with spark intensity......... Oh and I'm only 1/4 the age of that 200 yr old expert someone else was referring too.........LOL It's funner when it's not -20 and 2 feet of snow to tramp around in......... Oh and your battery connection should be positive ground......
Well, you probably know about cold I love Alberta, a beautiful province, but man it gets COLD there in the winter. Here we are sticking around -10C so not too bad and the grader is under cover....but my fingers do get cold working on that thing. I am going to take the carb. off tomorrow and bring it to the cabin to look at it in a warm place with good lighting. I think it could stand a good cleaning out. I really think that is where the problem lies. It has always just started right up on gas even to -20C without problem. I love old engines. I can't work on them new-fangled things with computer parts and all that. My Dad did me the best favor as a kid without (well maybe it was on purpose) he always took me out when he worked on things. I knew basic car engine stuff and had to show him I could trouble shoot the engine and change a flat tire before he would let me get my driving license. I appreciate him.
He also taught me that I could do anything I set my mind to, even if I was a girl hence my crazy idea that I could operate a road grader. Oh and by the way...... my pictures did not come out on my camera....it was too dark. i will try on a sunny day (all 2 hours of it).
We call it the Siberian high, Montana calls it the Alberta clipper, seems everyone blames the last place to have it.......LOL If fuel is pouring out the needle must be stuck open or theres some debris in there, you might get lucky just pulling the drain plug on the float bowl and let some fuel flush it out........thats why I suggested just be ready to turn it over after you open the petcock, those things are fairly forgiving for fuel within reason if you have good spark and everything is timed properly, you could probably only partially open the petcock and limit the carbs fuel supply that way if it's flooding badly...... Hey it's only 70 years young, lots of life left in it....... Your dad's raising sounds like KOO in northern Manitoba........not many kids are so fortunate learning life skills these days
Another problem that sometimes arises with these old IHC engines is the switch in the manifold. Periodically you will need to take it out and clean it. If you loose spark that is a good place to look first. if it is not hooked up, it should be as it saves the points and plugs while in the deisel cycle. Have fun taking that carb off. There are two nuts on the backside that are a real problem if one of the hexes gets striped. Also, On the gas cycle, the engine speed is set to run at around 900 RPM constant if memory serves me correctly. There is no way to trottle the engine up and down on the gas cycle. I ain't 200 years old yet, but I'm getting there. Dandy Dave!
If you are going to take the carburator off, take it apart and soak overnight in mineral spirits, and then toss it in an ultrasonic cleaner with more mineral spirits. Just be sure to use the ultrasonic cleaner out side. Reassemble and replace, all the gunk, varnish and rust will be cleaned out and it should work like a champ. (or an Austin Western). Keep warm, Rick
Instead of mineral sprits, use Laquer Thinner. It works ten times better. And yes, The plugs are special long reach type. Dandy Dave!
Thanks Rick.....unfortunately there is no ultrasonic cleaner here except my toothbrush. Keeping warm....it is warming up and might mix some rain in with our snow......ACK!!!!! I need to get the road plowed before it does that!
Dandy Dave, thanks for the info. I do have laquer Thinner!
Update on my baby...... The carburator is off and apart and soaking in the cleaner. Everything looks good, I haven't been able to get the float valve out yet. I think I am fighting 70 years of inertia. The spark plugs are 15/16". And Dandy Dave was right the 2 bolts on the back of the carb. were a #$%^@!*(%!! to get off. LOL OH!!!! one more thing, inside the carb. there is what looks like a washer on a bolt sticking up into the manifold. Is that an adjustment of some kind? There is a screw slot on it. I am not going to mess with it because I don't know what it is or what it does. Today was a blue sky and sunshine day 28F and not a bad day to be working outside.
I knew you would have fun with those two nuts. :cussing Something that may help, The closest I could come to for a parts breakdown is on the Case IH site. http://partstore.caseih.com/us/ Choose parts books from the list that is on the Case IH site. Type, "Farmall M" in the parts books and a list of 4 will come up. Choose MD. This engine is like the TD6. Scroll down the list until you find, "065 Carburetor, Diesel carburator Model F8.... You will come up with a list of parts and an exploded view that may help you understand what the parts are and how they go back together. Some stuff is still available though some of the aftermarket vendors like "Steiner tractor." I think your engine is most likely like a 4 cylinder TD9. Unfortunetly Case IH does not list the WD-9 farm tractor on their website. Dandy Dave!
Oh Dandy Dave!!!!! :notworthy if you were here I would give you a HUG!!!!!!!!! I have been searching, trying to find info on my engine. You, in one short paragraph, gave me more than I have found in weeks! I signed up for red power forums and am waiting to be approved before I can post my questions. I did learn that this engine came out of a tractor to replace the original engine in the grader because someone shot up the original. ???? Yes, I have many questions about that also. Was it the army guys that used to be here, who shot it? But meanwhile, back at the ran.......er homestead......... I have made arrangements for a float plane to come pick me up this weekend for my trip to town....just in case I don't get this thing going by then. 2 hours of daylight, cold and 50 million other things to do don't make for a great environment for working on my "hobby" On the bright side, once I get her running, I can ask my grading questions........:slomo
Another good Website that us 200 year old Krusty mechanics hang out on is Yesterdays Tractors. http://www.ytmag.com/ Go to the Farmall discussion forum. Auston Western used a lot of IH power plants back in the day. The problem with finding much of anything on IH Industrial equipment is that IHC sold their Industrial line to Dresser, and that was bought up by Kamatsu, who has abandoned pretty much anything vintage in the IHC line. I have a neighbors WWII vintage Austin Western in my yard, but it has a Hercules gas engine instead of the IHC Diesel. It is a 4 wheel drive model. I'm the designated wrench and operator as everyone else runs from it. :roll Most young uns don't have the gumption to grab the bull by the horns and make it happen. Dandy Dave!
Is this a sindle rear wheel grader or a tandem? Single rear wheel will probably be a tractor ag engine replacement, tandem will be a UD14(A), still a 4 cylinder gas/diesel.......I should have most manuals at home to scan id needed......
:canada *Debbie singing, Oh Cananda* Its a tandem. I will pay you!!!!!!! It would be incredible to have a manual instead of guessing at everything. Although, guessing and trying is a good teacher. As I stated not much works on this dear old machine. If I could tell some of the summer cannery machinists exactly what I want, maybe they could do some of the work. i.e. hydraulic lines, control cables. One guy does really beautiful welding jobs. A lot of them are from south of the border and have a hard time with a woman doing stuff like this.....they had a hard time when I fixed my washing machine.....looked at me and kept asking "you? fixing it?" For me, fixing things is FUN. All ready I am dreaming of next spring when I have a go at the roads here and put the crowns back on them and get rid of the "berm"s on the sides that the stu....er.....unknowing people have done and just ruined them. They have just scraped and scraped and the pot holes just reappear after the first rain. They didn't use to be this way. I think I can fix them.
I will have all the engine stuff for you for sure.....the only grader manuals I have are for Adams.......Austin Western were advanced in certain aspects or leaders, think all their machines were 4wd......can't recall which was first in hydraulics......the carb info you got should be accurate as IH used this same setup for many engines.........but I will check
I printed out the exploded view of the carb that Dandy Dave referred me to and it looks like the one I have.... so I am good for a bit.
I'm sorry I can't help with getting your grader going but you guys talking about this gas/diesel engine setup has piqued my curiousity. I'm sorry I get a feeling I am overlooking something incredibly simple or missed something in the thread but the way it was sounding was like it was one engine, that somehow ran on gas and diesel. I have never seen something like that, but I know there is lots I haven't seen so could someone explain this to me cause it sounds pretty cool.
The old IH diesels were one engine. they cranked up on gas, w/ spark plugs and a carburetor, then you switched them over to diesel.
Basically they had a third valve in the combustion chamber, these valves were opened to lower the diesels comp ratio to start on gas, once the engine had warmed a bit they were closed and through linkages activated the injection pump to run on diesel......where in the GWN are you......if you search youtube for IH there will be some startup and switchover on older machines......they ended this design around 1960.....
Thank you, I'm gonna have to check some vids of these. I am in Alberta as well. Bout an hour from Edmonton. Thanks to mitch as well.
They are pretty cool engines if you ask me. Even if I don't have mine started yet. I had to go to town for a few days but I am back ready to get my baby running.:bouncegri:bouncegri
pretty cool engine, I have never seen one but I used to run a sand pit and the diesel was started by a 350 cheverolet running first then ingage the diesel with no compression untill turning over then ingage compression on deisel and kill gas engine, that thing had so much power it would sink the stinger and about turn over the platform.
Yeeeeehaw!!!!!!! maybe its the power thing I like about diesels.
NoCrap heres a vid of the engine startup......couple of his details are off but overall pretty good....... Alaskachick might be of interest to you.......? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UNdjbsMwI4
The grader lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The carburetor is back on and its a runner!!!!! Many thanks to all who helped me. Now I can start asking grading questions.