At idle all i hear is engine noise. With the engine rpm @ 1500 the hydraulics are loud/whining at rest or during operation, at max rpm hydraulics quiet down significantly. Bucket controls seem to jump at any rpm while all other controls are smooth. Replaced hydraulic filter with no change, pump coupler seems good with no play. Any ideas? Backhoe was used very little for the last 20 years until I purchased it from a cemetery. Thanks for your assistance.
Any possibility a stabilizer or boom or dipper rod or valve is stuck up or anything else, causing continuous flow that self centers with higher RPM? When you shut off, is there pressure when removing cap? What kind of filter did you put on and how did the old one look? Have you checked at 1500 RPM, if any cylinders are getting hot? Does this unit still have the anti-rollback rod and self leveling solenoid and do they work? Is this with the boom locked?
Thanks for the reply, see my answers above. I don’t want to run the machine and blow something up. The shuttle solenoid was unhooked when I bought the hoe, I believe because the floor switch was stuck in the neutral position. Which I fixed and hooked the solenoid back up so I can now shift gears while moving. I don’t believe this would cause the noisey hydraulics as when I have the transmission in neutral or in gear i can shift between forward and reverse with no change in the noise.
Not sure on the 480E but my 580 SE and most other backhoes I have worked on have a constant pressure on the hydraulic systems to keep the pump fed under return oil. Is it just a dipstick or a screw on sealed dipstick? Is the boom in travel lock and could you have a cylinder bypassing and creating continuous flow, check for heat in the cylinders. Is the hydraulic noise the same as when you hit the pressure relief valve? When you say bucket controls are jumpy, we talking loader or backhoe?
I will be at my cabin where the backhoe is located this weekend maybe I can take a video of the noise.
Pretty sure shuttle system is similar to 580C and has nothing to do with hydraulics. What did hydraulic fluid look like when you changed filter? If full of moisture after sitting for 20 years, something could be rusted and sticking, Agree maybe some function may be stuck affecting other functions, heat checking could help diagnosis. Check and lube the crap out of all the linkages and make sure they're all returning to center.
Yes shuttle is separate and I have serviced all fluids except for the hydraulics. Hydraulic fluid looks clean. Hoe was used about 100 hrs in the last 20 years if I recall (i have full records since new up at the cabin), so yes something could be bound up from sitting. It’s in really good shape with just over 3000 hrs on it. All controls move freely and appear to return to center. There is a hydraulic screen that can be serviced but you need a special case tool to get to it, according to the service manual that came with the hoe.
So you do have manuals, good deal, you're miles ahead of most other guys with a "new to me" machine. Keep posting with results, lots of guys here with vast amount of knowledge, you'll get 'er figured out.
Thanks for your advice. I have a few things to check next time I fire it up, it's been very wet in upstate NY so far this spring.
Be aware, if certain seals were leaking, you could have water in the hydraulic oil and would look good from the top but in 20 years, there could be rust in certain areas. Just went through this in a skid that hadn’t run in 10 years.
It’s been run monthly just not much for the last 20 years, only used when digging a grave at the cemetery. Changing the hydraulic fluid is on the list to do eventually.
No time to run the hoe this weekend, but further research indicates it could be a failing coupler between the engine crank and hydraulic pump? When I get a chance I will remove the front grille and inspect the coupler for play.
Also check the suction hose on pump for condition and loose clamps.
Planning to run the backhoe tomorrow. While checking fluids and greasing this evening the hydraulic tank seemed to have "pressure" when I removed the dipstick... the machine has been sitting for almost a month, not sure if these means anything or not? I'll try to take a video tomorrow of it running and the hydraulic noise to see if it seems normal or something to further investigate.
suction hose and clamps look intact
Watch unnamed | Streamable Watch "unnamed" on Streamable. streamable.com video of hydraulic noise. Tach is just revving the engine in neutral with no digging. Sound is the same when operating the controls, backhoe bucket doesnt operate as smoothly when curling as the other controls do. “almost” acts as if there is air in the line for the bucket at times. Backhoe digs with power and will pull the machine with any of the controls when off the ground. Maybe the noise is normal? It’s been a while since I ran a 1980s vintage case backhoe. Operated the machine for 3 hours with no issues other than the noise.
Check out all of your clamps on your metal lines. Sounds like there is a line vibrating under machine. Line may be rubbing on frame somewhere.
Odd noise, have you put a gauge yet on the hydraulics. Almost sounds like your filter is in bypass. By chance, is the pump out of center and can you verify if the noise is coming from the pump. Get underneath by the pump and have someone do that range of RPM again. While under there check for movement from the front motor mount.
I'll take a look.
How could I tell if the filter is in bypass? The filter was just replaced. Have not measure the hydraulics. What type of gauge would I need and where would I put it on the system? I can take a look underneath, I don't have anyone up here with my to run the machine though.
My 580 SE has a filter light on the dash, that actually still works. Why don’t you use the throttle stick to bring the RPMS into the suspect area and safely go underneath and also check every available surface for excessive heat build up. That may indicate where the problem lies. I‘m thinking pump, oil cooler lines, all cylinders and supply and return from filter along with filter housing.
Filter light does work, tested the sensor and wiring so no light on dash means filter is not in bypass?
Just climbed under the backhoe with the rpms at 1500, this hydraulic block seems to be making the noise and vibrating… is there anything I can take apart and clean/check? I think it’s the flow control valve according to the manual? Thanks a ton for your help figuring this out.
power steering lines at the cylinders wee loose, tightened and no change in the noise. Removed the main pressure relief valve and it is clean as can be. Removed main flow control valve and is also clean as can be. Hydraulic dipstick shows full, when I extend all hydraulic cylinders there is nothing on the dipstick. I realize the cylinders use oil from the reservoir but is this normal even though you check the fluid with all cylinders retracted correct? Also there was pressure/vacuum when I removed the dipstick after shutting of the engine with the loader extended in the air. I then lowered the loader to the ground with the engine still off… when I removed the hydraulic dipstick there was pressure like a gunshot air escaping. This can’t be right…. It there a hydraulic tank vent or relief that could be clogged?
Depending on your year, some tanks had a breather on them but I have only heard of them. Generally there is positive pressure on the hydraulics, to help feed the pump. Wat your describing does not seem right. If there is that much pressure returning to the tank from just lowering the front bucket, that sounds wrong. On mine, I can do the same thing, and you can hear the fluid rushing back to the tank but not with any power. Do you have th manual for the machine? I am very familiar with hydraulic flow controllers and have no idea why you would have one on a backhoe.
I have the full manual. The hydraulic schematic shows the breather on the tank as well as the flow control valve, could not located the breather without taking off any panels. I did take the dipstick out of the tank and started the machine effectively venting the tank… same noise at 1500 rpm. The flow control valve is plumbed from the supply side of the pump, then a line to the hydraulic block for the bucket, and two lines for the power steering. I did not follow how it is plumbed to the backhoe controls. Also the pump pulls from the bottom of the hydraulic tank and the filter housing is on the return to the tank after all hydraulic circuits entering the tank about 8” from the bottom. What I did notice is the dipstick is “stepped” with 2 90 tabs so you have to spin the dipstick to remove, are those tabs for checking fluid “cold vs hot”? The manual says nothing about what they are there for. If it was low on fluid I would think the controls would be jumpy though. It’s very odd as the backhoe works perfectly just that noise with any rpm off of idle. At idle the backhoe controls work without that noise. It’ll be 2 weeks before I get a chance to look at it again at the cabin.
The hydraulic tank on a 480E should always have positive pressure under normal operation, if you remove the cap when running or after running and there is no pressure in the tank you have a problem. It's pressurized to keep a constant feed of oil to the pump and keep contaminates out. Be sure to always snug the cap down to make it seal. The two metal tabs that you have to turn 90* each way when removing the dipstick are a safety. Otherwise someone may quickly unscrew the dipstick and have it blow out in their face due to the pressure in the tank. There is a pretty big OK range on the dipstick to cover temperature and such. With the machine cold, buckets down, outriggers up, it should be somewhere in the middle of the hatch marks. There is A LOT of oil in the tank below where the dipstick reaches, with all cylinders extended it may not read on the stick, but there are still many gallons in the tank. You said you have a shop manual, do you have an owners manual? All of this is covered in the owners manual, not the shop manual. Is there anyone near by with heavy equipment experience? Sometimes having a second set of ears listen to it can be helpful. What you are hearing 'could' be normal, it can be hard to diagnose sound like that over the internet.
Thank you for the information, very helpful as far as the tank pressure. I do have both the service manual and owners manual. Can I ask how the tank builds pressure during operation? Cabin is very rural and nobody really around, I could ask one of the local farmers I guess. The noise is ear piercing to where you have to wear ear plugs if running the machine for a couple hours straight. I am going to attempt to access the pump, but that involves removing the heavy counterweight on the front of the machine and I don’t know how I would remove/install that safely. Next time I’m up there I could do another video of a walk around at 1500 rpm and exercise the controls to see if that helps diagnose.
I took the risk and cut those tabs off on my dipstick, as trying to get it in to check the tank level was very hard to get those tabs to line up was frustrating. I also sanded my dipstick a bit and painted it flat black, to help me see the level, as in sunlight, I could never see it. Sounds like your breather is plugged. On m machine, I just raise the loader up, set the support and take off the 2 top bolts on the grill and a couple on each side. Take the air breather off and with the side panels off just lift up and slide to the front. You can turn it around the muffler a bit. The top panel on the front, just lifts up and pulls away.
Tank builds pressure through heat in the fluid, as the oil expands it pressurizes the system. I just watched the video you posted, I can't tell how loud it is but the sound itself doesn't sound that odd. Could just be a weird harmonic/vibration at a certain rpm, I would also keep checking for loose things under/in the machine, sheet metal vibrating, etc. You could have something mechanical/hydraulic wrong or it may all be fine, again, hard to tell over the internet. The 3.9 Cummins are not very smooth in those middle rpms, that's just the nature of 4 cylinder. My 1845C, 480E and 450C (all same 3.9 Cummins) have very definite vibration just above idle, by about 2/3 throttle it smooths out completely. If it were me and I couldn't find anything definite wrong, I would: 1. Change fluid and filter on the hydraulics 2. Run and work the machine, keep and eye on hydraulic temperature and for signs of oil aeration 3. After a few days work cut the hyd filter open and see if there's any thing it in. 4. If all is well just run it and don't worry about it.
Great advice and my experience is from a different model, there is similar gear noise from the front mounted hydraulic pump. Another difference is the tank level, there is no bayonet fitting dipstick, instead on the right hand side chassis tower [between the lift cylinder shaft and main pivot for the front hoist] a "sight eye" glass window (#7) shows the oil level, either in air [low] or full with no air visible.
so when the machine was cold, I started it up and raised the loader with the dipstick removed. I then turned the engine off, screwed the dipstick back into place and dropped the loader to the ground. There was enough pressure in the hydraulic tank that it sounded like a gunshot when I unscrewed the dipstick i’d estimate at least 20psi letting loose out the cap. Can’t be normal right with a cold machine?
No, that is not normal. Something is plugged up.
Check items #5-8 in this diagram: EQUIPMENT HYDRAULIC SYSTEM, RESERVOIR TO LOADER CONTROL VALVE | CASE Construction | MyCNH US Store Find schematics, manuals, specifications and diagrams for EQUIPMENT HYDRAULIC SYSTEM, RESERVOIR TO LOADER CONTROL VALVE. Find genuine OEM parts for your needs. www.mycnhstore.com
Will do, heading up this weekend to the cabin. I believe those items are under the bolted hood panel as I didn't see anything like that with the side panels removed.
Yes, they are on the inboard side of the tank.
removed both relief valves, neither are working properly. No airflow out of the outlet or into the inlet relief valves. Also the filter is clogged on the inlet relieve valve. Going to order new parts and go from there. Also how do you grease the pump coupler? It had a zerk in the diagram but I have no idea how to access it without removing the front counter weight which is 700lbs.
Time to buy or borrow a transmission jack to handle the counterweight. It is the only safe thing to do it with. Do not use plain ole gun grease. A moly grease is what Case specifies.
Huh I was able to get in there from the side panel on my 580 SE with a 12” extender on one of my grease guns.
yes i've been using moly on every fitting
can't even see the coupler from any angle on my 480e, counterweight seems to be in the way which doesn't make since if they wanted the operator to easily service the grease fitting on the coupler
D94060 relief valve outlet - not available R15538 relief valve inlet - substitute to 361776A1 $155 D63543 filter - $68 Is there an updated part for D94060 or equivalent replacement? 361776A1 appears to combine the relieve valve and filter into one part for $155, is this correct? Thanks for your assistance.
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/03239381?srsltid=AfmBOopYjFNDpnAsQvArbQA-5kWqzYroSBpBXlHaqxxiQrYZYbD8DK6BGZ8 relief valve outlet replacement? Whoops, we couldn't find that. 361776A1 replacement? Looks identical to the $155 case part for $50 from grainger.
Ordered these, will see what happens both are cross-referenced grainger parts to the case part numbers My Products LDI INDUSTRIES Vent Plug: 20 micron Filter, Steel, 3/8", PTF, Relief or Filler Design Item # 1U577 Qty Web Price$16.61 / each Availability Expected to arrive Thu. Jun 11 - Fri. Jun 12 . LDI INDUSTRIES Pressure/Vacuum Breather: 3/8", PTF, Air Exchange (PRV200 Series) Design, Steel Item # 1U585 Qty Web Price$50.57 / each Availability Expected to arrive Thu. Jun 11 - Fri. Jun 12 .
Installed the check valves, hydraulics are smoother now, noise is still there however. Next item to check is the screen on the power shuttle. I changed the shuttle fluid when I got the hoe but I didn't know about the sump screen that is supposed to be serviced every 100 hours according to the owners manual. I doubt it's ever been cleaned at least according to the records that came with the machine. Pan gasket is on order and I'm going to try to save the brand new fluid I just put in and reuse it.
.... every 100 hrs is not viable...... The engine requires oil & filter change every 250hrs. Transmission oils & filters / screens would be every 1000hrs. Draining the shuttle oil & cleaning the screen twice to every engine oil service is just a print or reading mistake. Sorry, I just felt this needed some clarification.
Crap, if it’s 100 hours, it’s either a misprint or I’m way behind!
I'll check next time I'm up at the cabin, 1000 hrs seems more reasonable, maybe a misprint or I read it too fast. I doubt the screen has ever been serviced according to the records I've got. I wonder how often that screen causes issue due to being clogged.
I’m sure a few hundred people have bought the kits and tourqe converter to rebuild a Case shuttle, only to open it up and find everything okay except the screen is clogged. If you watch this decent video on rebuilding the shuttle, it shows the screen but unfortunately they don’t man up and explain that was the only problem with it. They keep rebuilding a shuttle and replacing parts that are still good.
Pan and screen complely clean, so either the shuttle was rebuilt at some point or has been very well maintained. Owners manual says screen cleaning every 1000 hrs.
Found hydraulic pump coupler grease fitting, also changed out hydraulic tank with new fluid approx 10 gallons worth. Old fluid looks a little dark but no sign of water contamination from what came out of the bottom of the tank.
Did you take the counterweight, to get to the pump coupler zerk fitting?
No. I was able to find it by squeezing in between the radiator and engine accessories. Looked dry so gave it a good amount of grease.
I hope it was molybdenum grease not plain ole lithium grease. Case has recommended it for hydraulic pump couplings for along time.
Yes I use moly on all the fittings on the backhoe.
Belt tensioner seems a little weak so that will be the next item to be replaced.
Ran the hoe for 2.5 hrs today at the cabin. Hydraulic noise is still there. Seems to be slightly quieter when using the steering wheel? I know the power steering is run off of the hydraulics. Maybe a noisy pump from sitting. I guess I'll just run it until if fails (hopefully not too deep in the woods lol)
Where would be a good place to put a pressure gauge to monitor the hydraulics?
There should be a quick attach coupler on the inlet side of loader control valve. You can put pressure gauge there to check pressure. Now there is a flow control valve attached to frame underneath the machine. Here is a pic of the valve. Do you have a service manual? If you do you can find out how to adjust steering pressure in that valve. Oh BTW you can look up parts at www.mycnhstore.come
This is now ridiculous. I set the rpm at 1500 and began to push pull on everything under the hoe without a change in the noise. Decided to push on the exhaust stack and with a bit of force the noise goes away! Just normal hydraulic/engine noise. Shut the engine off, took apart the muffler and stack... nothing loose inside or any of the clamps. Put the stack back on and pushed as I did when the engine was running. I can see the entire engine block move ever so slightly (not a lot of play)....could this indicate a misaligned pump? The hydraulic coupler looked like it hadn't been greased in forever until I greased it a few days back.
Check your motor mount isolators.
There is minimal visual movement I guess, nothing that could be measured.
The front motor mounts on the 580’s were notorious for failing, due to oils and other stuff all around the motor mounts. Pretty inexpensive,if I remember correctly.
You won't see much, if any visual movement when the rubber bushing is worn out. The front one is usually completely gone when the vibration gets noticeable.
Thanks I will try to find them and place an order assuming 4 mounts total?
Not familiar wit a 480E. But most have 1 in the front and 2 in the back. I don't have access to a 480 parts book but it will show where they are. Back ones will likely be on the transmission or shuttle.
installed new mounts, hydraulic sound is now the same regardless of engine rpm or load. Now when engaging the shuttle in F or R in 1st gear there is an audible whine from under the floor, gears 2 through 4 the whine goes away or when disconnecting the shuttle via loader button or floor switch when in 1st gear. For now unless on a significant hill I'll keep it in 2nd gear or higher.
Stupid question here but I gotta ask have you checked gear oil level in transaxle?
All fluids were changed and are properly filled
Had to ask. Check input shaft in transaxle to see if there is any movement up and down or side to side.
without removing the driveshaft there was no movement when pulling/pushing on the yolk at the transaxle
Well there goes my theory I was thinking the noise might be a bearing going bad.
Classic suction starvation. Pull the tank strainer and check for a collapsed suction hose. Bucket jump is likely air or a sticky spool. Sitting 20 years dries out seals.
Thanks for the reply, but the issue was resolved by replacing both of the hydraulic tank relief fittings