I have a 1964 530 CK gas backhoe that doesn't seem to have a lot of power in the transmission. It runs fine and digs great, but if you are pushing something or going up a hill, it slows down. The motor isn't bogging down, just that the transmission is loosing power. It seems like it's getting enough fluid. I have checked the fluid levels and they seem fine. After researching today, here a post I found in another forum on a 580 having the same problem: I then used the bucket and stabilizers to jack the entire tractor as high as it would go off the ground to make it easier to work on. Armed with a 1" open/box end wrench and two plastic 5 gallon pails, I noticed one drain plug just behind the engine itself, in the bell housing area. I figured that this was the one so I undid it and let the oil fall into one of the empty pails. About all I got out was 2 to 3 quarts. That surprised me but since the tractor was on a pretty good angle to the rear, I figured that I had to open the next drain plug about a foot back from the first one. More oil came out but once it quit, the bucket was perhaps 1/3rd full at best. That really had me scratching my head because I expected more than 5 gallons. So back under I went again and found a third drain under the differential. This time I used the other empty pail. Good thing I did because the contents came real close to filling my bucket. It was immediately obvious that the greyish crap that came from the last drain hole was totally different in viscosity to the oil from the first two drains. So, off I went to my local Case/New Holland dealer five minutes down the road. After considerable discussion with the Service Manager and the Parts Manager, it was decided to use the Case HyTran fluid everywhere since this was an old 580B and if a leak developed internally, no contamination would result. I dropped the tractor down to the ground and took it for a spin. What a difference. Put it into fourth and had no problem taking off at road speed. Put it into first gear and waded into a pile of topsoil dumped last year. Pushed right through that pile with no problem. This is what I thinking of doing next. Draining all the fluids and replacing the filter for the torque converter, but I can't find the filter. I should be in front of the radiadator, but it's not there. My two questions: 1. Does this sound like a good plan? 2. Where else would the torque converter filter be located? Thanks for your help in advance. Matt
Hi Matt, I don't know about Cases, but I just worked on a Massey that had the Torque Converter filter right in front of the steering colum, you had to remove a small cover to get to it. I am probably wrong but you might check there anyway. How are the brakes on this tractor? On a tractor I worked on, the brakes were dragging and slowing everything down. If the brakes start to grab on with almost no pedal play, that could be part of your problem. Hope this helps, Jim
Hi Guy, Someone else came up with a Case that was missing the filter in front of the radiator. I think that I'll get to go Tuesday to pick up some used parts from a 580B. When I saw it two weeks ago it had the filter on it. If you need me to pick it up for you and send it to you I will. That is, of course, that the guy still has it and that you pay the costs. Packratc in Tennessee.
Packratc, Thanks for the offer to get the filter for me, but I don't have any thing there to put the filter. No housing or lines. The only thing I have in front of the radiator is the hydraulic pump. Ihjim, I don't see it in front of the steering column, but thanks for the suggestion. This is the great thing about these forums, people helping people. Thanks again. Matt
After rereading the operating manual tonight, I think I have found out why I can't find the torque converter filter. My Backhoe doesn't have a torque converter. I had been reading about reading pressure gauges for the torque converter and found in the operator manual that my backhoe would have the gauge if it had torque converter. Also, I have replaced the brakes, so that's not the problem. So, If the torque converter isn't the problem what could be causing this problem? Matt
As far as I know, if you don't have a fluid drive, it's a clutch. So you must have a clutch pedal. Do you? When I used to work on cars, if we had a manual trans car with low power, it was check the exhaust back pressure, pull the airfilter, check fuel pressure and volume. We also checked the ignition timing and advance, cam timing, compression, cylinder balance. We usually found it with all those checks. Do the easy one's first, then the ones that take more effort.
Matt, How many forward and reverse gears do you have? Does it have any hi or low ranges that you can shift? Jim
I do have a clutch pedal, it seems to release out of gear fine when you push down on it. It has 4 gears and a starter gear with a shuttle shift. It does have a hi/low range. The previous owner had it bungee corded towards the front of the tractor. I haven't messed with it much, but it does move. Matt
If your tractor had a friction type clutch and you were slowing down on hills without the engine bogging, then the clutch disc would be fried by now. You'd be able to smell it burning. You still could have a torque converter, and your "clutch" pedal could be a declutching pedal. I'm not sure how a declutching pedal works, but it probably diverts the torque converters pressure so that when you push the pedal, your tractor stops. Handy for front end loader work. I maybe completely wrong here, someone else can chime in. Jim
I recently traded my forklift for a Case 530 backhoe like yours. It also has a problem with the torque converter drive, in that it doesn't disengage the drivetrain so I can shift into gear. The dash gauge shows the pressure is in the green when the "clutch" is out, and it drops when the "clutch" is depressed, but it just grinds when I try to engage the gears. Any ideas where to look? Sorry to hijack this thread, but I can't post a new thread, and the problem is similar.
All this talk of a torque converter AND a clutch pedal had me wondering.....Turns out it was something used 60 years ago; http://www.allpar.com/mopar/fluidrive.html . Looks like Case was still using it in the '60s.....the Allpar article mentioned some advantages/disadvantages to it, but given how it's obsolete and not used anymore, I don't see many advantages; just extra parts to fail.
Is it possible to drive these without the clutch if you started it in gear and didn't shift gears?
Not a problem, you should be able to post a new thread now. You needed 3 replies before you can start one. You may be able to with the shuttle shift, but mine wouldn't be able to. It's sometimes hard to get into forward with the clutch can't imagine doing it without the clutch.
Thanks, I was able to post a new thread. I reread your post, and I'm a little confused about the behavior you are seeing. If I understand it correctly, you are saying that under load (going uphill, etc.) the engine speed remains constant, but the tractor slows down. Is that correct? How about starting under a load, does it take longer than usual to get moving? If your clutch is slipping you should see those symptoms. I don't have much experience with tractors, but I have been working on cars for about 30 years, so I have encountered my share of clutch problems. The bottom line is that if you have a conventional clutch (no torque converter), the only place where it could be slipping is in the clutch. I have also read about (in the pursuit of my own problems) an optional hand clutch, which is apparently operated by a lever under the fuel tank where my shuttle shift is. Hope it helps.
It does slip when taking off with a load. We are just stumped that we can't smell the clutch slipping. This is why I thought it was a fluid problem. My Father in law told me last night he may have figured it out. He said that when he changed the brakes because they won't hold, the brakes had lining but were so hard they wouldn't stop the backhoe. He says that may be the same thing with the clutch, the lining is so hard that it so hard it's slipping, but we can't smell it. It' almost like metal and metal. Thanks for everyone's help. I think we are going to need to change the clutch. Anyone know the best place to buy a clutch? Matt
Here's an update on my 530. We pulled the clutch out and it was completely wore out. There was very little pad left in the 4 button clutch and it seems like the pressure plate was worn out too. There was no torque converter behind the clutch. Looks like we are going to rebuild the engine and change the clutch while we have the tractor torn apart. I will keep ya'll posted. Thanks for all the replies. Matt
I need some help, we are rebuilding the engine right now (it's a G159) and my Father-in-law pulled the crank out without marking the timing. He says there is alway a timing mark on the cam to crank shaft, but I can't find one on the cam shaft gear. There is a circle stamped into the gear on the crank. We are also looking for torque specs on the head bolts and main and rod bearings bolts. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Matt
Matt, If you go to tractordata.com and go to the page for the 530ck, follow the link at the bottom of the page for Mike's 530CK data, and you should be able to find what you need there. Scratch that, I just checked, and couldn't find the info you were asking for. I'll see if I can find it.
Bmorey, Thanks so much for all the information. I was able to find the timing mark. They were not marked well, but with your picture I found them. I knew someone would be able to help me. Thanks again for all your help. I'm sure I will have another question or two. Matt
Make certain you have #1 piston on compression stroke when you line up those dots. If you don't pay heed to this, you could easily line up the dots with crankshaft 180 degrees off.
I just wanted to give an update on the rebuild. The backhoe is back together and everything is working well. The clutch fixed the problem of loosing power on hills, the clutch was a standard clutch with no torque converter. Thanks everyone for all your help, I couldn't have done it without everyone's help. Matt