Hello All. I am new here. And thank you all for your responses in advance! I have spent the better part of the day today trying to figure out if my Backhoe has a revised Gland Nut as I was told must have happened at some time in the past by a rep at Broken Tractor where I ordered a seal kit for the bucket cylinder on my back hoe bucket. A few of the seals in the kit fit the gland nut but others needed didn't fit or were not in the kit #85804743. I am trying to figure out if I have the "new" Gland nut and they sent me the old seal kit or vice versa. The kit includes a hard plastic ring a little over 1 inch wide that goes inside the Gland Nut that helps protect from metal to metal wear. That particular piece that is in the Gland nut is about 3/4 inch wide. I bought the Backhoe about 4 years ago and have not rebuilt a hydraulic cylinder before. I am just trying to get this first one behind me. If anyone could help me with this I would be greatly appreciative. I am also wondering, did they just revise the Gland nut on the bucket cylinder or did they also revise the boom and dipper Gland nuts too.? Thanks again guys.
Welcome to HEF, Scott ! I can't help you, but there are members here that will tell you all you want to know. Photos help immensely.
Thanks for the response Tinkerer. I am attaching a few pics of the Gland I took off the cylinder. I also noticed that the face of the Gland Nut (the part that has the pipe wrench bite marks) on the bucket cylinder looks different from the face of the Gland Nuts on the dipper and boom cylinders (they just appear to be smooth, painted and with no groove running center of the face edge).
Hey Scott! Welcome. I'm a relatively new owner as well. the guys here helped me through my first cylinder rebuild on my bucket as well. Fortunately I had no issues with fitment. I did need to get help removing the bolt in the rod end though I needed a BIG compressor. This is the one I replaced: Not sure if this is the same bucket gland nut as yours, but if it is, I took a crap-load of images if you need to compare. Mine is a '97. The serial number on my hoe is 031003413 if that helps. I'm not that knowledgeable, but as Tink said, there are some really smart guys here who will help you out.
Rumblecloud, First off, Thanks so much for the pics! Your Gland Nut is for sure not the same as mine. And I am guessing that you still have the old style Gland Cap. That wide plastic spacer is on the other end of your Nut from mine. Also the outer lip that is so eat up with pipe wrench bites (lol) is just like the ones on my Dipper and Boom cylinders. It is kind of funny that you would be one of the first that would reply to my thread. Your thread about your working on your hydraulic cylinder popped up when I was browsing trying to figure out what was going on with my issue. I read through most of your thread and came to this site because of you. Thanks for responding and thanks for bringing me here. I suspect I will be coming here often. Just wondering, is that ring on the outside of the Gland Nut a single ring or a flat ring and a round ring together in the groove? While I am pretty sure I am right on my Gland Nut being a revised one I am hoping that someone with a lot of experience will tell me if I am right or not and if I am right am hopeful they might be able to let me know if there is somewhere I can get the seal kit aftermarket. I am not looking forward to paying almost 500 dollars to Ford for less than an ounce of rubber. Once again, Thanks so much for your response and pictures. You are a big help. Also I am not sure what year mine is but my Unit Serial # is 031017664. I hope to figure out what year mine is too.
Well...WOW. Thank you. I got my seal kit from Reliable Aftermarket Part s . I realize that until you figure out if yours is revised, that this won't be much help, but they may be able provide some info. Here are some more images: New seal kit: Old seals: (Randy or just RC is good). Take care and again, thank you for the kind words. Following.
The hard plastic ring inside the gland is called a wear band. You should be able to measure your gland and rod and source a wear band based upon those dimensions (depth and length of cut in the gland, O.D. of rod). The size difference you mention between your wear band and the one you purchased should be enough to inform a parts guy which seal kit you have, if your gland has OEM dimensions. If your wear band is not OEM, then someone bored your gland for a wear band and sourced one based upon the dimensions they cut in your gland. We always bored and updated glands without wear bands to extend the life of cylinder rods but we stuck to CAT specs when doing so. Hopefully your gland is still Ford New Holland spec as well.
Thanks for your response Check. I just got off the phone after a 20 minute session with a local Ford/New Holland dealer. What I have found out so far is Ford has in the past years designed and made 2 revisions of the 555e backhoe bucket cylinder Gland Nut. And at this point he is supposed to send me a document he is looking at hoping I can look at the expanded parts view and tell which parts kit will work. He told me that his capabilities do not include my giving him actual size measurements to figure out which Gland I have. I guess it would be asking to much for Ford/New Holland to stamp numbers like 1, 2, and 3 on the Gland for each revision they make. I am pretty sure from what this guy at ford told me he is not even able to research actual measurements in order to figure out which Gland I have. I told him that the wear band in my Gland is about 3/4 inch and the one in the kit I got is a little over 1 inch. I also told him I could give him the dimensions of the outer wiper sear and he told me it would not help him as he has not specifics on the individual seals.
You could take the gland to a shop that specializes in repairing hydraulic cylinders. They could tell you exactly what you need. It is quite normal to get more parts in a repair kit than you can use. The kits are packaged to fit variations of different cylinders. There are members on here that have had to modify their glands in a lathe to be able to use revised rebuild kits
Scott, Personally, I would not buy the updated gland, and I did, but for my lift cylinder. I think you will be able to find the correct seals. From what I hear, when NH took over Ford, they changed cylinder vendors. The updated glad makes the old work with the new, from what I have read. Anyhow, there is nothing wrong with the old gland. The update only made it easier for NH at the owners expense. The gold plated gland I purchased was for the lift cylinder. I am not sure if all the updated glands are the same, however, in my case the updated is easily identifiable by the band around it. See pic below for comparison. If I were you, I would call a good seal kit provider and talk to them. CEA_Services is one I have called in the past. I also understand that if you send Hercules your old seals, they will assemble a kit (I would call first). I have attached a svc bulletin below.
Based on the information Swetz supplied and the pics you posted above it looks like you already have the updated gland. Should make ordering a kit that works easier for you. I have fought the update as much or more than anyone and have been able to seal the stabilizers and crowd so far. In both instances I had to reuse the black rod bearing because the kits I found with seals that would work had a bearing that was too wide. I also had to jump through some hoops on the wiper seals. On my stabilizers I machined the gland to make the supplied wiper seal fit. On my crown cylinder I was able to match a wiper by size. I haven't had to reseal my bucket cylinder yet. I did have my boom cylinder leaking for a while and chased down a "discontinued" kit for it then it stopped leaking so I don't know if that kit is going to work or not.
Tinkerer and Swetz. Thanks so much for your responses. I think I actually have no idea if my gland is updated or original. I know that it looks like the one on the left with the red arrow Swetz. The boom and dipper gland nuts look like the one on the right that has factory paint. But, while trying to find out what Gland it is I made contact with a company that rebuilds cylinders it is a company called Phelps Equipment Group in Shawnee Oklahoma and it used to be a New Holland dealer. The owner advised me that he will take the cylinder down strip the piston and Gland, take measurements for every seal and that he buys all his seals from a distributor who will send the seals needed, not a kit. He said the seals usually cost no more than $90.00 per cylinder and he charges $140.00 and hour. He said he has very seldom ever run over an hour and a half most the time spending just over an hour. So I figured, $250 to $300, what the hell I'll try it. I have the boom and bucket cylinders in my pickup and am taking them to them in the morning. I am going to see if he will get a second set of seals for each cylinder and sell them to me. I doubt he will go for it but it's worth a try. I plan to repair all 3 cylinders in the next week or so. And next summer I plan to drain and dig out a stock pond making it about 12 to 15 feet deep and about twice the footprint. Will be a good workout. Will be interesting to see how they work out. Thanks again for your help guys!
Let us know how you make out.
I would take it to a hydraulic shop, have them measure the seals and then order the Hercules seals through them. That’s what I did with my 555e crowd cylinder as I had the same issue as you did with having mix matched seal kit numbers. I bought 3 or 4 different kits. Some pieces worked, some didn’t. I spent less than $200 and it was over and done with.
Swetz, Will do. I will give it a couple months give an update after I dig up about a dozen big stumps and then I plan to do it again next summer after I have deepened and enlarged that old silted in stock pond. Cosmaar1, yes Sir that is what I am doing this morning. I am taking the Bucket and Boom cylinders to a shop that's going to rebuild them for me. Thanks for the responses everyone. I am sure glad that I came to this place. Seems like a lot of good guys in here! I am sure that I will be bugging you guys for your knowledge in the future. I have always been somewhat mechanically inclined but never worked on heavy equipment until 4 years ago when I bought this backhoe, Thanks again Guys! Ya'll have a great day.
We will help if we can. Good amount of NH owners here.
You made the right decision, Scott. Keep us posted on your pond project ---- with photos !
This is somewhat my story as well. Have worked on cars, mowers, etc., but never this stuff. Best thing I can say is research, use this forum, and study the manuals. I’ve had my machine since September 2019 and I feel like I’ve touched most parts on it and can perform some repairs in my sleep.
Just an update guys. I still haven't gotten this maintenance done. The company I took the cylinders to has 2 of them done and said they will likely have the last one done next week. They say they have had problems getting the correct seals for the rebuilds. Now I am going to have to get measurements, either drive over an hour to a bearing and seal company here neat Tulsa or use a internet company to get the grease seals for the pins holding the cylinders as the company told me the grease seals they received are not the correct size. I am guessing it's probably going to be at least 2 more weeks before I can get her going again. But that's OK, it is Bow season here and I most likely won't be doing any serious backhoe work till I have harvested some meat for my freezer. Most likely be January before I start digging up those stumps. Will let you know when I get it up and running again.
Good luck with it. This is why I mixed and matched and resealed my cylinders myself. If a person was depending on a backhoe for a living a New Holland should be the last machine he would consider.
If #14 is the seal you are needing, you can get them separately from NH. Additionally, in the second pic, NH has put the specs for the seal. I would think you could find them for a fraction of the NH price on the internet.
Don't get me wrong, I am very pleased with the capabilities of my backhoe, it is so strong but, I agree with you totally. If I was running a business I would have no use for a New Holland. The company doing my rebuild is actually a New Holland Dealer and they are having problems getting the needed parts for the rebuilds. I am not by any means talking bad about the guys rebuilding my cylinders, this is a Corporate New Holland issue.
Swetz, Now that is very interesting. The guy I am dealing with told me the only way to get those grease seals was to buy the complete seal kit for 400 plus. But your right I need 6 of the 83931289 as well as the same type seals for the other 2 cylinders. I need 4 of the 85801025 and 4 of the 9824067. If you don't mind my asking where was you able to get the information showing the specs on the grease seals? I could really use the specs for the other two seals I need. Thanks
Thanks for leading me in the right direction Swetz! I figured out how to get the specs.
Awesome! Glad I could help!
As someone said earlier, send your seals to Hercules & they will match them up. And send you email for the rest of your life too. Joe H
Some people might argue with me, but I wouldn’t hold up putting my cylinder back on for those. Unless you are running hundreds of hours a month or in dirty, muddy conditions, you will be replacing the machine before the seals in those. Splash a little extra grease in the zerk and see ya later. Again, my 2 C.
Also, your problem there was that you went to a NH dealer. They are only going to replace it with NH parts, not aftermarket. I went to a CAT backed shop, but they were open enough that they weren’t required to use CAT parts on non-CAT parts. So that’s where the Hercules brand came from.
Sorry I haven't responded earlier, didn't realize there have been new posts. Joe, if the old seals were anywhere near intact I could do that. Unfortunately, the seals have been there so long that all the rubber on every seal just fell apart during the removal of the cylinders. The metal case of the seals only give me the OD and Width. Believe it or not I am still waiting for the call to come pick up the cylinders. 2 of them are done but they still haven't gotten the dipper cylinder done. I am not sure right now exactly how I am going to respond if I don't get that call this week but I am not happy with the delay. Cosmaar, I am thinking seriously about not replacing all the seals if I have problems getting the seals from a bearing and seal company in a timely manner. I know that I do want to at least replace the 4 grease seals on the bucket cylinder because those seals will be so close to the dirt and mud. But just might take your advice on the rest of them. Hopefully I will update you guys that I at least have the cylinders back later this week. Thanks for your responses and hope ya'll have a good week.
Reason why you might have a delay is because they can’t get the seals. Checking on the Hercules website for a few I needed they were back ordered for over a month. Might be good just to give them a call and see what is going on. Never hurts to ask.
Well Guys, good news finally! They never did get the grease seals, I tried a couple different bearing and seal places and they couldn't help me. I finally contacted Messicks. They were pricey and 4 of the seals they sent didn't fit. But they had all the others right. The seals for the frame that connects to the boom/travel lock didn't fit but I decided what the hell I'll just be sure to hit that one pin with grease more often. Finally got the cylinders 4 days ago (Tuesday) and the grease seals arrived yesterday so today I got to play mechanic! It feels good to have her running again. In the morning I'll grease up the pins and run her for a few minutes to make sure there are no leaks. Then after my dear season is over it's time to dig up tree stumps! Thanks for all the answers and help guys. It is nice to have somewhere to go and get help. Ya'll have a great Weekend!
Glad you are back up and running!!
Now get out there and get that thing DIRTY! Sometimes I wonder if any of you guys use these machines or just clean them?
That's funny! I only spend time cleaning my hoe when she blows a hose...LOL
Waste of time. That just gives the paint more protection!
Well, Guys. I finally decided to dig up some stumps and everything went well till I started smelling diesel. The hydraulics are great but now its time for me to beg for knowledge again in a new thread. 1 1/2 hours work and down again! Hope to see you guys on the new thread.