We've try everything in the book ,I've even used a rag soaked on gas ,nothing ,then I put my hand on the exhaust pipe and instead of blowing while turning the starter it blows and sucks ,and did the same to the intake manifold and does the same thing ,all the valves go up and down so the cam is turning what do you guys thing it could be ? Im all ears and open to any sugestions ,thanks in advance for any help.
Have you cracked the injector lines at the injectors to check for fuel? Any smoke coming out the exhaust while cranking? Engine running fine before this? Phil
Only a guess from minimal information, but it sounds as though your starter polarity has been reversed. Any starter, wiring or battery changeouts or repairs lately? In other words, your engine may be turning backwards it seems to me. If you had a stuck valve or a damaged piston, it could also cause this, but the engine would also try to start on the other cylinders. You would have seen a damaged valve when you inspected the upper works. I guess it's possible that your timing has slipped also, causing the wrong valves to be open at the wrong time, thus causing the sucking at the exhaust. That may be more likely now that I think about it a bit. Good Luck!
Phill we did cracked the injectos and fuel is going thru ,no smoke or any sign of firing ,this is my friends machine and he just purchase this motor ,we dont know the history on the motor,but it looks visualy good.
surfer joe ,you might have something here the starter is new and I remember way back in the '80s I had a boat doing the same thing after we replaced the starter ,first thing tomorrow Im going to check that.
Guys i really thanhk you for your imput ,but keep em coming ,don't be shy of any comments.
If it's not getting fuel, check the fuel pump fuse. My 580 K I had someone hook up the batteries 24 volt and blew the fuses. It died after about 10 minutes of running. I switched it back to 12 volt before it could screw it up, but the machine died and wouldn't start because it blew the fuel pump fuse.
We just got this motor It's not the original motor it is a 3.9 cummins ,the same as the original but it is a used one ,there is fuel going to the injectors but is not firing ,as surfer-joe said it might have a counter rotaring starter ,by the way it's behaving ,since the starter was replace on this motor, hopefully.
2109 Stang, I might be possible... and I say this with considerable doubt... that you have a tight valve adjustment. You should be able to feel a slight bit of free play on the rocker arms... TDC... compression stroke. I'm not certain if a starter will run backwards... or engage properly... or if the injection pump will work in reverse rotation... and you do have some fuel flow. If the engine has had recent work done... the cam/pump timing could be wrong. Sound like a lack of compresion... no smoke... and air flow both ways from intake and exhaust manifolds... valves not seating (tight), or a camshaft timing error. Interesting problem... please keep us posted. OCR
I'm having some trouble with the starter issue too. Yes, the starter motor might run backward, but the Bendix is set up to run in one direction only. Also if it is engaged by solenoid, the solenoid would retract rather than push out if the polarity were reversed. Have you tried a shot of ether? If it will run on ether then you've got a fuel delivery problem. what you describe with the exhaust and intake sounds like a valve timing issue. I'm not familiar with the cam drive in that engine, if it is chain driven it may have jumped time if the chain is sloppy.
If it were mine I would first make sure the injectors were working. I'm not familiar with this engine, but see if you can pull #1 injector out and re-attach the fuel line, then crank to check for spray. While it's out, turn the engine over by hand and feel the piston coming up with a straw. At TDC check the valves for that cylinder. If one is opening and one is closing at TDC, the overlap is usually exactly at this point(within a few degrees). If the valves remain closed, turn the engine over another revolution, then check. This is a quick check I use for cam timing, I don't think it's your problem, depending on where your used engine came from I guess. Do you have a way to do a compression test? That is a great way to check your used engine. Applying air pressure to a cylinder is a good way to find out why your compression is low. Phil.Here is a link I use: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2
Was this engine complete? Did you set the valves or install the fuel pump? The timing on the engine is gear driven so chains don't enter the picture. Also, like Steve and OCR said, the starter may run in reverse but the bendixs would freespool so it wouldn't turn the engine over. I put a new head on our 580K last summer and had the fuel pump rebuilt while I was at it. It took a while to get the fuel primed again. If the engine was complete when you got it and wasn't tore down I would have to think its fuel. Especially if you have no smoke. Our machine had the same thing as far as air flowing both ways through the exhaust and intake while cranking over slowly. OCR might be onto something with the valves set to tight or out of sequence. If it was a running take out this shouldn't be the case though. Did you remove the fuel lines from the injectors and crank it over until you had good fuel spray out of all injectoin lines? If not I'd try this first.
A starter doesn't care what the polarity is , it will always turn the same direction. Opposite rotation starters have to be built that way. Did it ever start after the starter was changed? It should be easy to tell if the engine is turning backwards but it seems like such a long shot. About the only backwards starter that might be in a warehouse would be for marine applications.
Lashlander ,we just got this engine complete ,my friend did change the injection punp ,might be out of timing , we did prime the injectors ,the valves could be out of adjustment too, but it is a long weekend and everybody is out either fishing or just enjoying their time ,thats why we are trying our selfs with the good help of evryone here "a compiment to Steve and every member of the site" ,this site is wonderful ,so much information can be obtain here so fast with real life experience and respect that makes me proud to brag to my firends about it ,again thank you so much ,Im about to go with the family on the boat, so I'll try all your advices tomorrow ,but nontheless keep the info coming .
Komatsu 150 ,We've never heard the engine running ,I had a boat with twin engines and a starter went bad on one so I'd replaced it ,thats when I find out about counter rotating engines ,I almost went crazy until someone notice gas spiting out of the carburator ,so we told the part store guy and he gave us the right starter ,and brooooommmm fishing we went ,that was a good leaning experience .Oh by the way we turn the motor again and is turning on the right direction,
Hope you had fun on the boat. When I took my pump off and sent it in I locked it in time when I removed it. When the fuel pump shop sent it back they locked it in time after they rebuilt it. Unless this was done you may need to have this done. Do you have a manual to help you out?
There you go... 180 degrees off... injecting fuel with an open valve... or maybe some where around BDC of what should have been the power stroke... no smoke. Note: I'm not sure about what stroke, or where pump would inject fuel if 180 deg. off... might be wrong on the 180 deg. too. Injecting fuel with an open valve might explain the odd air flow in your intake and exhaust manifolds... or you could have one or more burned valves. If pump is off 180 deg., it's an easy fix... shouldn't have to even remove pump... but I'll need to consult a book. But right now you're fishing, and I need to do some farming... BTW... just in case... TDC= top dead center. BDC= bottom dead center. OCR
Used engine? Could of been sitting out in the weather, maybe??? Have you ruled out stuck valve(s)?
backwards looking at the crank pully from the front of the machine it should be turning clockwise while cranking. bet thats your problem
We are having a similar problem with a 580K. My machine will start first thing in the morning but if I shut the machine off then I have open the water/fuel separator valve and let some fuel out, then it will start right up. Anyone with suggestions?