Good day folks. Some may have already read that several years ago I had the swing cylinders on my hoe rebuilt. Due to unforeseen isssues, They sat around my shop (ports plugged with caps) for about 3 years. I finally got them back on the hoe, attached new hoses exactly as shown in the manual. Bottom port on each cylinder attaches to rear of cylinder, top port on each get attached to the valve. Now I can only get the swing to work to the left very slowly (direct actuation on the valve, not relying on pedals) and barely moving to the right. I also can't get the boom to extend from the locked position after releasing the lever. The stab cylinders move well, the bucket cylinder moves well, not much from swing and nothing from the boom. Hydraulic oil reservoir is full. Unless somebody has some thoughts, there is one thing I'm not sure of. The manual shows a flow control restriction in the port of the right-hand (sitting in the seat) cylinder rear. There is not one there. I did not keep track of which cylinder went on which side when I removed them. I'm wondering if the restriction might be in the other cylinder and if it were, might this be the cause of the issues? Reason tells me that it wouldn't matter either way, but my reasoning ability has it's moments. Anybody have any ideas? Thanks, Glen
So, I could really use some help here from some experienced hydraulic guys (or gals). As suspected and described above, I did indeed switch the cylinders from the original side they were on. The manual says they are the same, so I looked for the restriction in the other cylinder and it was there. I removed it for testing. So I don't really understand what is happening. It seems like all the functions that go through the boom/dipper/bucket/swing block valve hardly work at all. I can get the swing to slowly work to the left and the right about 20 degrees each way then it stops. The bucket will curl, but won't go the opposite way. The dipper won't move at all and the boom moves about a half-inch when activated and will not go down enough to unlock. I'm very confused. This machine was parked for about 3 years and all the functions of the backhoe were working well. All I did was remove and send out the swing cylinders for rebuild and reinstalled them. I'm very inexperienced with backhoes and backhoe hydraulics. I don't even know what to check. Sure could use some advice or opinions.
Pull the caps off the bottom of the controls take the insides out replace the O rings , clean out the rust . I don't know the names but had a 580 B took them apart and cleaned them up replaced a few O rings and all was well. That was 30 yrs. ago and all I can remember is it wasn't a difficult job.
Are the control levers applying full stroke in both directions to the spools in the valve body ? Same thing with the foot pedals. Sometimes the pins and clevis's get extremely worn and prevent complete travel for the spools.
Is the front loader working normally? Any out of the ordinary noises when trying to work your backhoe? Any hose shaking or jerking when using any functions?
Thank you for your reply. The valves are indeed getting full stroke. The pedals are off the machine for the moment. I'm actuating the swing with a wrench.
Thank you for your reply. The front loader is working normally. Very well actually. No unusual noises or shaking or jerking or pulsing of any hoses.
This is a place to start. Thank you. The valves are all weeping fluid out of the top of the spool. I'm sure ALL the seals need to be replaced in the relief portion as well as the spool portion. I'm going to start the daunting task of compiling a list of all the seals in the block and see if I can find sources for them. I really wanted to at least see all the functions work again before I spent more money on the beast especially since it WAS working when parked. I guess things can deteriorate while sitting enough to cause non-function. Today I was going to pull the relief valve on the input section to see if there are any clogs or other suspicious findings. Again, thanks for the reply.
Glen, do a google search for case 580B power beyond issues and the first site that pops up is from HEF august 5,2019 a thread posted by a feller goes by sudnurge. First guy to answer is alrman, then Coy Lancaster, both pretty good authorities on case machines. Three pages of good reading pertaining to your problem. You can probably try a search here too but the google search put it right out there.
You may have an internal problem with one of those rebuilt swing cylinders. I would be checking them individually for free movement. That would require removing the rod eyes and then connect the hoses so that the cylinders can be operated independently of each other. Someone may have removed the restrictor to increase the speed of the swing due to a leaking piston seal.
I compiled all the part numbers today for all the seals required to rebuild my backhoe valve block. I then went online to the CaseINH part website. Wasn't having a bunch of luck. More searching led me to Messicks. I had better luck there but some of the prices for these small O-rings were ridiculous. They were usually the parts that I needed multiples of. There were also 7 part numbers that were not available with no cross-reference. Also, the Case manual does not indicate O-ring size for the most part, so when I enter in an original Case part number, much of the time the size comes up but the part number has been superseded. The new part number does not usually list the size of the newer number so I'm basically shooting in the dark. I don't actually feel comfortable with placing the order because of uncertainty of what I'll be getting and because the price is astronomical...being over $600 before tax and shipping. I'm hoping that somebody who reads this can point me to an aftermarket source where availability isn't an issue and prices are much more reasonable. Other than that, I guess my only option is to disassemble my valve and measure all the rings myself, which really doesn't sound like something I really would be thrilled to do. Again, any advice/opinions?
Stinky, your instructions do not lead me to the thread you are talking about. If you can find it again, would you copy the URL from the address bar at the top of your browser and paste it in a post? Thank you.
I believe the cylinders are fine. There is only one restrictor in the swing circuit and I personally removed it for testing. They do indeed move, just not a bunch. I'm almost positive that the problem is in the valve body, unless there is a separate hydraulic pump for the hoe functions on this machine. If there is, I'm not aware of it. Thanks for the reply.
Sorry for the wild goose chase, microsoft edge, bing search..case 580C power beyond issues. popped up same as before with that format. The main heading was case 580B main relief valve- heavy equipment forums. I'm sure someone "lots more computer smarter" can instruct you how to access that thread here with a quick search, I've never had such luck.
Aw dude just did a search and it worked...Go to the top right of the heading to search, when it pops up enter case 580b main relief valve, click box for search titles only, member enter sudnurge and voila it pops right up. I'm getting lots more computer smarter every day.
Stinky, I misunderstood your instructions the first time. After copying and pasting the heading you posted in to google, I got the thread. Just to help you, if you would have just copied and pasted the address into the message it would look like this: Case 580B Main Relief Valve I have a 580B, circa 1975, and the hydraulic system has become weak. Stabilizers won't lift tractor, but will hold it up if I lift with the boom and extend them. Other functions (dipper, bucket) don't have much power. I suspect the main relief valve, but I don't even know where it is located... HeavyEquipmentForums The text you would have pasted would look like this without the quotes: " HeavyEquipmentForums " Most forums interpret this as a link. In fact, this forum automatically formatted the link text and made it so it would appear in the dark gray box as shown above. Thank you for your efforts, I will read the entire thing!
I read the entire thread. My backhoe seems to be experiencing the exact same issues. I will check the main relief valve. Unfortunately, the man in this thread had to replace the hydraulic pump after confirming pressure output with a gauge set. Looks like I will have to buy a gauge set. I'll need one anyway to adjust the relief on the backhoe valves anyway. I'll post more when I know more...
Review alrman's pictures and check out the power beyond fitting o-rings circled in green, the parts that Coy pointed out as well, hence my suggestion for power beyond issues. You read the thread but you missed the message. If the loader functions well don't mess with the relief settings until you check out the power beyond o-rings. You don't necessarily need to buy a guage set, you can get a 3000 lb. guage from ebay and a 3/8 hydraulic line and fittings from any hyd. shop/tractor supply or napa etc...I think you can tap into the left inside of the loader control valve from inside the cab like on a 580C to test pressure.
Well, I was looking at what I think is the power beyond fitting in the manual and on the machine. I also reviewed another thread on here where somebody was rebuilding a 580C valve block back in 2022. He actually posted a picture of the power beyond fitting and I think now I know what I was looking at. Is it the fitting that the main backhoe hydraulic supply hose attaches to? If so, this looks like it's going to be a bear to get to. I'm not sure how I'll be able to get off the backhoe supply tube to remove the power beyond fitting. And of course, everything is going to be filled with oil and spill everywhere when I crack anything open. That thread you referred me to where I posted the link above, the guy in question replaced the O-ring(s) on the power beyond valve and said it made no difference. That's why I was going to buy the gauge set because when replacing those O-rings doesn't work, I'll have to check the pump pressure. I have to look in the manual to see how and where to do this. I've never done anything like this before. I'm not a virgin to hydraulics. I've rebuilt a few cylinders and replaced some fittings, seals and O-rings. I'm a machinist/tool designer/manufacturing engineer by trade but until I owned this old how (smiling) I hadn't really dealt with power hydraulics other than power steering on cars. Thanks again for your help. I'll report back when I know something more than I do now.
You can use an oxygen gauge that is used on cutting torch tanks. They are quite inexpensive. Once it is exposed to oil it can never be used on an oxygen tank. A grease gun hose is cheap hose on it for setting relief valves. Most are designed for 10,000 psi.
Well, I removed the relief valve and checked it. Either there is an O-ring with a backup ring, or two O-rings or one O-ring with a groove in it. In any case, the valve was sealing. I had to pull it out of it's bore. Wouldn't go back in properly until I lubed it first. I didn't detect any issues. Still trying to remove the power-beyond connector. The line nut appears to be 1 3/8" or larger. I don't have a wrench that big nor an adjustable that large. I'll be stopping and purchasing a large set up to 2" from Harbor Freight as soon as time permits. In the meantime, I had a leak in the plumbing around the valve stemming from a fitting attached to a valve on the loader connected to a T. Figured while I was in there removing things to get to the power-beyond connector that I'd pull it apart and fix the leak. I'm learning a lot about O-rings because I'm researching replacements for the control valve block. It would seem that the O-ring that is leaking at the loader valve is a size 912 and my local Grainger has them for about $10 plus tax for a pack of 25. Case is calling these by part number 218-5008 as far as I can tell. I'm not sure why Case wouldn't have originally specified these parts by the standard names, unless it's because they didn't want people to know the standard size because they wanted to sell them at inflated prices. Who knows. If I ever get these O-rings cross-referenced and/or get current correct CASE/IH part numbers, I'm going to publish it in a few forums so other's don't have to go through this pain and suffering! Tomorrow, I'll can probably take a few pictures of what I'm doing since I know y'all LOVE pictures! Also, is there a way on this forum to see how many (if ANY) folks are reading these posts?
Your thread has had over 300 views since you started it. Not 300 people. There is no way to determine how many out of that 300 are different people.
Here is a picture of the main power beyond tube going to the backhoe, shown disconnected from the 90deg. fitting coming out of the power beyond connector. Pretty oily and dirty but once I got the proper size wrench ($70 wrench set from Harbor Freight, sizes 1 3/8 - 2" by 1/8" increments) the fittings came off fairly easily. They are all soaking in diesel fuel waiting to be cleaned before reassembly. Are nitrile O-rings suitable for use in a backhoe hydraulic system? I have a cheap nitrile set with the correct sizes but I'm thinking Buna-N would probably be better suited? If so, I have to drive in to Montgomery (Alabama) to get the correct ones from Grainger. The power beyond fitting O-rings are not rock hard, but the one on the end seems to be rather flat and compressed. It didn't have much pressure on it when I pulled it out. After all the trouble I went to getting it out, I'll certainly replace it before reassembly. I'd be a bit disappointed if this were the only thing I was doing because I don't think replacing the O-rings is going to make any difference. There WAS a significant leak from the T-fitting connecting the valves, or I should say from the flat-face fitting that the T was attached to. I'll replace that O-ring while I'm in there and hopefully fix that leak. Also, there were quite a few NPT fittings that I had to disconnect to get to the power beyond connector. They were assembled without any teflon tape or any sealant. Should I use either when reassembling these components?
Don't cheap out on those o-rings, just get them OEM. before you get all bat$hit crazy ordering after market o-rings order a $15 hydraulic guage from ebay and test your system.We know you're not a hydraulic expert, but I wasn't either before completely rebuilding my hydraulic system on 580C because I cheaped out on a hydraulic pump that failed after a couple of months and had me chasing my tail diagnosing the issue. If you can lift the machine off the ground with the front bucket and the stabilizers with good pressure then your pump may be good. Need to test the system pressure which is covered in this forum extensively. Don' see any mention of whether you've actually changed your hydraulic filter before embarking into the rest of this crap.As to the teflon question those are o-ring sealed and teflon may breakoff and screw something else up.I am by no means a Case or hydrauilc expert but thats my opinion. Test your pump pressure first after you replace the power beyond o-rings since you've already got it apart. P.S. not bustin' your balls on this issue just trying to offer some advice. Stinky. Edit, as to the NPT fittings you can use teflon just make sure there is no intrusion into the system.
No issues Stinky. I hadn't intended to jump off into anything without thorough thought and contemplation. I don't know if you caught that I'm an engineer. I don't do anything without thinking about it thoroughly. As far as the gauge is concerned, I have an extra Oxygen gauge that I have considered using as you instructed, it's just that I'm going to have to buy the hardware to adapt the gauge and the port. The grease gun hose you recommended has 1/8-27 NPT ends. The gauge is funky because it attaches to an oxygen cylinder. May not be the best choice. I'll find something and make it work. As far as O-rings go, I'm not going to use the nitrile type that I have. I've placed a small order at Grainger for the few I need to put back the power beyond fittings. I've learned a bunch about O-rings in the last week. The few I'm getting from Grainger are Buna N, a standard in the industry. As far as OEM rings go, there are a few that I will need to get OEM. They are high-dollar. With what I've learned over the last week concerning O-rings on this Case, Much of what I will be getting will also be aftermarket Buna N material. It doesn't scare me at all. Also, not all of the fittings I had to remove from the loader valve to be able to have access to the power beyond...not all are O-ring sealed. As a person with a machinist background I know what an NPT thread looks like. I've machined literally thousands in to components, mostly in process pump cases. I have a T that has NPT threads on all sides. I seriously doubt I can get them back in exactly the same alignment as they were originally installed and ensure they don't leak unless I use some type of sealant. I wish this thread were getting more views so somebody could tell me exactly what kind would be best to use. Thanks again for your reply.
Permatex #80633 is one of the best pipe sealants for NPT hydraulic fittings. IMHO. I never have seen an oxygen gauge attached to cylinder. The ones I am familiar with screw into the regulator and have regular ole pipe threads. Grease gun hoses have regular ole 1/8 pipe threads. I never had a problem plumbing an oxygen gauge into backhoe lines in all the years I have worked on them. I have used them for compressed air. I would never ever use teflon tape on hydraulic line fittings. Spools in valves don't take kindly to something even as small as tiny piece teflon tape.
So here is the status update for today: I replaced the O-rings on the Power Beyond fitting and all the other fittings that I removed to get to the Power Beyond fitting. After reassembly, I got rid of a significant leak from the T-fitting that connects to the return tank. During the time the machine was down, I also rebuilt both stabilizer cylinders. They work really well now and don't leak. The problem with the non-working swing, boom and dipper still remains. Also, the bucket curl only works one way, that is curl toward the dipper as if you were loading the bucket. I am not sure how to proceed. I'm thinking that the hydraulic pump is good since the front end loader will pick the front of the machine off the ground as well as the stabilizer cylinders picking up the rear end. I am thinking there is a blockage in the backhoe valve body. I'm sure there is a way to troubleshoot and diagnose this, I just don't know what the procedure is. If somebody does, sharing would be appreciated.
Doing some more troubleshooting, I find something that I think shouldn't be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when a hydraulic valve is in the center position (neutral), this should block all flow to the cylinder, correct? So with the machine running, valves in neutral, I loosen up the line on one end of the boom cylinder and the oil is coming out under pressure. I also loosened the end of the top line of each cylinder at the top line connection and oil flows there as well. I'm thinking that all the seals on all the valves are shot (or missing) and this is allowing oil to flow to both sides of the piston on each of the boom, swing, dipper and bucket cylinders causing them to remain stationary... Does this sound like a plausible situation for my non-actuation issue? All of the spools are moderately leaking out of the seal on the top. Chime in if you think this could be happening. Other than that, let me know what else I need to check. Going to measure the output pressure of the pump shortly... Also, today while investigating things, I find out that the original 580B valve block and stabilizer valve have been swapped out to a 580C. I don't know if this makes parts any easier to come by but I ordered a parts manual for a 580C so I can see what I can find when this comes in. Good thing I didn't order parts for a 580B valve body!
I've pulled a no of those apart on different backhoes other than cleaning them up all I've ever replaced were the O rings .
It is not unusual for a spool to leak and cause problems similar to yours. This is a link to the 580C CNH parts manual ----> Parts Manual This is a link to the 580B online manual, ---> 580B Parts manual
Just as a note on online CASE parts being so outrageous... I saw four-dollar parts with seventeen-dollar shipping, and then I went to the source and found the prices and shipping to be realistic. " https://construction.sonsraymachinery.com/parts-service/case-parts-store/ "
On my Cat hoe which is open center, when the hoses are off for the backhoe functions oil will shoot out full force but not under pressure when I start the engine. I had all the hoses removed because I had to repair the swing pivot. The stabilizers were still hooked up. When I started the engine to lift a stabilizer so I could move the machine there was a big stream of oil gushing out. I think the valves are designed to have internal leakage/bypass. Hooked back up there's no problems with any functions.
In another thread I mentioned that the valve bank in my 580B is actually one of the valves that was used on the 580C. I had to order a manual for a 580C so I could cross-reference O-rings and get them ordered. Well, over the last two weeks I removed the valve bank out of the machine and proceeded to disassemble, clean and paint the sections. Today I reassembled and installed the valve and to my surprise, it worked! Also no leaks! Glad to have this job done. Pardon my fingertip in the photo below...
It's important the through studs are torqued properly. Good job on the repair. What size of bucket is that and what is on the side, some kind of wear plate or something? Nobody could weld such precision dots on like that.
You can see through the bucket on the other side. Never seen a screen sided bucket before but could be handy for mud work.
I did indeed torque the through bolts. I didn't have a torque spec but I torque them to 40 ft lb. It was tough to get there because the bolt wants to twist. That bucket has perforations on the side. Looks like a drilled plate was welded on the side or maybe it came that way I don't really know. It's 24 in.
Kind of odd. The bucket looks bigger in the pic.
The torque specs are usually in section 1051 of the service manuals. Don't look for the specific rods that hold the control valve together. Look for the size and grade of the bolt that you are tightening in the spec pages .
I've seen torque specs. for some sectional valves but don't know if they are the same as standard bolt torque?? I think the bolts on some valves are a special type (stress proof maybe). What is probably most important is they are all evenly torqued the same, ie/ you don't tighten the 1st one all the way and then do the others the same. You want to evenly pull the sections together like bolting on a cylinder head. I'd guess you're good if there's no leaks and everything operates smoothly.
I measured the bucket today. It is 34" not 24" as I initially stated. Good eye!