I want to swap all the filters and fluids possible on my '75 580BCK. What am I looking at for fluid amounts? Number of filters? What about fluid and filter types...Case only or are there options. Short of going into the Case dealer and asking for every filter and fluids to fill the machine what are my alternatives? Sometimes it's better to ask someone who's "been there done that"
from Wix's website using wix part numbers Air Filter 42222 580B w/G188 Engine Hydraulic 51760 580B w/G188 Engine Oil Filter 5145253 580B w/G188 Engine Power Steering 51653 580B w/G188 Engine Primary Fuel Filter 33381 580B w/G188 Engine Secondary Fuel Filter 33380 580B w/G188 Engine Transmission Filter 51518 580B w/G188 Engine
As for fluids right now i am running 15W-40 in the engine. Hy-trans in the transmission and final drive. plain old power steering fluid in the power steering, and hydraulic oil in the hydraulics. Visit your local walmart and get a cart. They have all the fluids you need. As for fluid levels everything has a dipstick or a fill line. so that is easy also.
Yasmar, is your B direct drive or does it have a torque converter? I use #80-90 gear oil in my B's transmission/ diff compartment and a transmission type hydraulic oil in the shuttle compartment. Phil
Phil, The oil i drained out of the final drive was too thin to be a 80-90 weight oil. I don't know what is best to use, I was going to use hytran.
Mine has the torque converter (I think Forward/Reverse lever on column. Jeeps are really more my thing...I'm really new to this heavy equipment. I'm having an issue with the machine moving forward or back after working it which would lead me to suspect the power shuttle. I'm going to drain all the fluids, change the filters, clean the pick-up screen, etc...
I think I have a book showing oil types used, I'll check this morning. Yasmar, what is your shuttle problem, does it slip? Phil
The more I work it the more it feels like the Fwd/Rev lever doesn't do anything. The machine moves fine upon start, then begins get "weak" feeling, then refuses to move at all. The fluid was milky, so I figure that's a good place to start.
The 580B takes 80/90 GL5 gear oil in the trans/diff compartment. It can use Dexron III in the power shuttle or Hytrans or Hydraulic/Transmission fluid. Regular hydraulic fluid can be used in the hydraulic tank. ISO 32, 46 etc are fine. Remember the shuttle filter up in front of the rad when doing the filters. The "slipping" of the shuttle when warm can be caused by various issues. The most common issues are bad seal rings, bad piston seals, bad torque seals and bad pump. If you still have a working guage on the dash you can check the pressures. If it is still in the green then the pump is most likely OK. It is very hard to check/clean the suction screen as it is deep in the torque tube. Alot of dissassembly has to happen to get to it. I have seen more than 1 580B pickup plugged with silicone causing lots of problems. Hope this helps.......Elast:canada
I've got the floor removed right now...I figured (hoped) that there would be an access plate under there for the pick-up screen. The "Bads" that you list...are they all componants of the shuttle? What would your next step be?
Everything I listed is relevant to the turque/shuttle powertrain. The torque is in the front of the torque tube next to the flywheel. The power shuttle is at the rear of the torque tube right below the steering column. The pump and pickup are centre below the fuel tank. It is not uncommon for the 580B not to move immediatly when first started before the pump "get its prime" but they usually work fine after that. Poor performance after startup/warmup/use is usually a symtom of a very poor pump or bad seal rings
Does the machine have to be split to replace the pump? Anyway to tell if it's the pump rather than the bad seal rings? I'm assuming the pump is a remove/replace where as the seals are a rebuild? Local CASE dealer quoted me $2700 to rebuild the shuttle.
I believe it is possible to get the pump out without splitting the tractor. It's the fuel tank that makes it difficult and alot of other parts to remove too. The pump can be tested up front by blocking the line going to the filter and installing a gauge, I believe. I'm guessing it is about 275-300 psi at that point without checking the manual. The dash gauge, if it's accurate, should read be in the green, 160-190 psi, I think. The pump is not rebuildable and the last one I got was over $500. Case lists it around $900 I believe. The problems tend to be in the shuttle itself and I'm sure I posted pictures of one here somewhere. There are two types, the Rockford and the Twindisc. If you are not going to pull the big cover off the top of the shuttle housing, access to just the shuttle assembly is alot easier I think. The tank and the steering column can be left attached to the housing and the whole assembly rolled ahead, far enough to get the shuttle out. I just did this to a 580CK, with a cab, so I'm not sure about the B model cab clearance. B's are hard to work on and any work around the rad or the shuttle is a pain. Phil
Checked my 580CK manual re pump and it said this: "disconnect the upper hose from the converter oil filter. Install A22179 pressure gauge. With the transmission in neutral and the clutch engaged, engine warm and operating at 600rpm, the pressure gauge should read between 275 and 325 psi." "If the pressure is too low check for a plugged oil filter, defective relief valve, line restrictions, worn pump, air in system, low oil level, incorrect oil viscosity, missing of leaking gaskets". Clutch pressure check: "With the transmission in neutral, engine warm and operating at 1500 rpm, engage the power shuttle clutches in both forward and reverse direction...The pressure gauge reading should be between 170-190 psi".
I'm at a disadvantage...the machine is at my woodlot still covered in snow. I only ran it for a day before I put it away. If I remember correctly, the pressure gauge dropped off, which made me assume pump. The fluid is milky, making me think (hope) that maybe it's a combination of viscosity/filter. Fresh fluids/filters and Pressure tests will be the first order of business. We still have a few weeks of snow followed by a few weeks (and then some) of mud...trying to decide a course of action so it'll be ready to run when things dry out.
I've always used a Fram (yeah I know not the best) PH8A filter for the oil... Rancher
You could use a Motorcraft FL1A availalbe at any walmart. They are a better filter then the Fram. Any filter with a 3/4-16 thread will work. Wix lists the filter as the filter for the dodge v10.
Is the front shuttle filter included on this list? As for gear oil and Dexron III...I'm assuming 5 gal buckets will be enough?
the shuttle is the transmission filter. What do you mean by gear oil? for the transmission or for the final drives/ differential? the differential takes 4 gal. not sure on the transmission
Well...we went at it today. Took the top off the trans filter housing...no filter. Drained the shuttle...at least a quart of clear spring water out of each drain before the oil (green) flowed. As a bonus, the radiator was dry.
Hey guys where is the fill line for the shuttle? Yasmar I just went through similar with mine. Only the guy has already changed the fluids. I wound up getting a new radiator cause the shop said the old one had too much well water run through it. Now I'm putting it back together but want to check all the fluid levels before I start using it. George
Major dis-assembly yesterday...Removed the spacer tube between the booms (over the fuel tank). Used a spreader to open to gap enough to remove the tube. Removed the fuel tank...removed the hydraulic crossover lines...unbolted and "come-alonged" the steering column to the roof...unhooked various linkages... One interesting development...the flow control spool on the shuttle control valve assembly was not connected. The pin that runs through the clutch cam was gone. May explain some things. Removed the access plate on the torque tube to get at the pump. What I found: A couple of handfuls of "gunk" in the tube cavity...fiberous stuff, looked like old gasket material...a few metal flakes, nothing too serious for a 33 year old machine. Flushed torque tube cavity with diesel. Pick-up tube screen was pretty much clogged with this gunk. Pump was toast. One bushing was worn away. Installed new pump. Scraped and cleaned everything and re-assembled. I'll have to wait until next weekend to test everything...but I'd say I found the problem.
Great Yasmar, sounds like you got the bull by the horns . I remember the valve you refer to, being a dump valve, that is actuated by the clutch pedal. The set-up dimension is 1.3" with clutch pedal released. I can get you more info on that if needed. When the clutch pedal is released, the pedal should return fully to the "up" position, pulling out the dump valve with it to the proper position, and bringing available clutch pressure back to maximum. The return spring for the clutch pedal always seems to be a little weak on the B and should be checked. Phil
It's funny, but it was actually a relief to find all these problems...it's easier then having to hunt them down.
rrh2000 I hope I can jump in and ask a question on the problem I'm having on my 580b case, I have the shuttle shift also and I now the clutch does not disengage enough to put machine in gear ,I have to shut off engine and put in gear then start, once it's in gear I can shift between gears if I shift fast. when I put it out of gear you can hear the transmission spinning like something is turning. What ever information you all can give me would be appreciated. And sorry for jumping in but I can not start my own thread yet, Thanks rrh2000
I have that problem if my idle is too high.
Rrh2000 Does your clutch pressure gauge work? The pressure should drop off as soon as the "clutch" pedal is pushed down, for gear changing. Does the problem get any better when the machine is warmed up? What kind of oil is in your shuttle compartment? Phil
Phil, The clutch gauge is in the green with the pedal out and yes it drops down to the red left hand side of gauge when I push the pedal in. I am using the case hyd oil that is called for in the book. But I have never drained and flushed the system or changed filter I have had the machine for about 1 year and it is just starting to do this. I hope it's something simple and not a tear down? could the pump be bad? of pedal out of adjustment? and thank you for the response I'm new at this and can use all the help I can get.
Tresslers, Thanks I'll tried to drop idle down, but it only grinds slower, and I even went higher thinking maybe I didn't have enough hyd pressure on low idle, any other suggestions. thanks
It is amazing what one finds in filter housings. I just did all mine on my 530. Two inches of muck in the primary fuel, water and crap in the shuttle and the list goes on. Well those are done, some hyd lines being made up as we speak, the fire in the boom is out. OOOPs look out for leaves and sawdust when heating fittings. Cylinder head should go on Monday with some help from a Bobcat. Can't wait to hear it finally start.
Rrh2000, I keep thinking you have a problem in the clutch packs with something causing the discs to drag. I don't think it's in the valve body but rather in the shuttle assembly itself. I never had to take one apart for that reason, usually they just won't drive.Phil
Phil, Thanks I'll try the fluid change and filter and hope that helps.maybe I can pull the cover off and look at the shuttle pack?
Picture shown is a Rockwell unit, I think. The discs can be seen through the slots in the drum. See if they move back and forth a little. Not sure if both drums will turn freely or not, both if it's in neutral I think, I can't remember the flow of power through the unit. Rear unit is forward drive, I think. The drum looks different on a Twin disc unit and they are much harder to repair. I'm not sure if you can split the B and just roll everything ahead(tank and steering unit attached), until the steering wheel hits the windshield or not. I did this on a CK and didn't require alot of work to access the shuttle. Phil
580b shuttle problem I was hoping that YASMAR would report on how well his repair went and after working the machine if the shuttle held stong. Mine fades away after 20 minutes My 580B sounds exactly like his.
Yes, I was hoping to hear from him too. Phil
alright...alright...quit nagging That indeed did seem to solve the problem(s) *knock wood* I Haven't worked it real hard, but she was doin' wheelies! Pressure held steady..it used to drop off real quick. I've got some cosmetic stuff to do (new seat!) then I'll really work her. Looks like it was a combination of bad pump/no shuttle filter/clogged pick-up screen. I'd like to give a quick mention to Dale at TractorStuff http://www.e-backhoeparts.com/ He's a great source of parts/knowledge/and a genuine nice guy.
Sounds like your cautiously optimistic. But it's sounding like a happy ending to me Yasmar:drinkup. I had a JD dozer once that had to have major work done on the transmission. It was a month long job for me, with the drive-train components coming out piece by piece after the engine was removed. Parts were extremely expensive which had an affect what got replaced, and assembly was a pain. I think my nerves were shot when I got it back together....so after everything was done, I just let it sit there, on planks in the shop. I wasn't feeling very optimistic when my son walked in, said is it ready to go Dad, started it up and drove it out. Sometimes difficult and lengthy repairs seem to leave one doubting and even if the machine works, one always wonders. I always felt the big shops don't hesitate to replace anything that looks worn, "if in doubt, fire it out"(scrap bin), and for good reason, they have to guarantee it. The little guy working on his own machine usually takes chances, hoping that a little 'wear on this part' will probably be alright and is willing to gamble his time and effort on a hunch. So hats off to the home mechanic. Phil
Oh man I got rambling on and waited too long to delete that last post. To many beers, sorry about that.
Hey Phil your ramble is pretty much accurate antway!
Thanks,
Thanks for your help YASMAR. I will look into the shuttle housing with a TV camera and see if the pick-up tube is plugged. If cleaning that doesn't help, I'll pull it apart and do like you did with the pump and clean out the housing. thanks again,Ron.
One more thing that I noticed...keep an eye on you clutch pedal. Make sure the return spring is bringing it all the way back up. Hook your toe under it and pull up. Watch you gauge when you do this. I found that my clutch was staying partially engaged. Add another spring. I worked my hoe all day yesterday with no problems. I did, however, throw a track on my dozer. It takes 3 people to wrestle it back on.
TV camera? That's cool...Phil
make sure you YouTube the video...I'd like to see that!
Re: 580b shuttle problem I will get my kid to youtube the tv camera in the shuttle hole! Too technical for my computer skills. We found and retrieved a ground electrode stuck to the far side of a piston with the camera! A 350 chev came in with a knock and that was all the problem. You can see the machine lines in the top of the piston with it! Saved a teardown.
Wow alot can happen to these things!
What camera are you using. I have an older borescope that sux. i hear the new snap-on high rez is a decent setup
scope Idon't remember the name of it. It has about a 2" screen an the tip goes through about a 10mm hole. It is bendable and deadly acurate up close. No kidding when i say I can count the machine lines on the top of the piston and the cross hatch lines in the bore show up very clear.