I've spent a few hours reading on HEF and other online forums about rebuilding the brakes on a 580C. It looks like I need to tear into this from one end to the other. I looked in the manual and couldn't find any specifications on the linings for both the links and the discs. What is the thickness of the linings brand new? What the minimum thickness or distance to rivets to force a replacement? I think my master cylinder is past the rebuild stage... Steve
Does anyone know what the thickness of the lining and disk should be on a new brake pad set? I'm trying to decide if I can reuse or need to replace them. Can the bearing carrier(supports the brake drum cross shaft) on both sides be removed with the transaxle still on the machine? I need to replace the leaky oil seals and the shafts are rusty. I read that you should do one side at a time with the brakes on the opposite side to keep the ring gear assembly from moving out of position. After reading several posts online, it's not clear if the carriers can be removed while on the machine. Thanks, Steve
I'm not sure on the thickness of the brake linings I always just replace with oem kits. The brake backing plates can be removed without removing the transaxle, there is a counter sunk screw in the plate ,if it wasn't left out on previous repairs. It'll be a philipshead screw you'll need a impact wrench to remove. Of course it goes without saying you should drain transaxle about now if you haven't already. You can use pry bars to remove the side plates be mindful of the shims between the plate and transaxle housing. You might have to start with a chisel where your weep hole is to get them started. Be safe and have fun.
I heard you mention leaky seals. If the oil has gotten on the brake linings, you need to replace them no matter how good or thick they look. No matter how much brake cleaner you use, you cannot get the oil that is soaked in the linings out completely, and as you use the machine and the linings get hot, the oil will make it's way out of the linings and make them gummy. They will then tend to stick and hang up.
Dale at www.e-backhoeparts.com was kind enough to measure brand new linings for me. New band linings are 0.199" thick and new disc & drum linings 0.184" thick. My pads are not oil soaked at all. Just the cavity in the casting(below the seals) have some grime and oil in them. My bands are only .04 away from the rivets so I will order new bands. The disk and drum are in decent shape with about .170 thickness left. My plan is to sandblast the parts and shoot some epoxy primer on the bare steel. I'll leave the paint off the wear areas. Steve
It looks like the left brake was working most of the time. Or maybe the prior owners didn't use both brakes. After sandblasting the housing I noticed the wear area from the brake lining had some grooves and was worn down about .03 from the original surface. So I decided to machine the brake area and also took an equal amount off of the flange. By keeping it equal I maintained the original factory specification which is about 2.030" from the flange to the braking surface. If you don't do this the drum and disk assembly can over-expand causing the brakes to lock-up. Back in the day Case machined these on a large lathe with a 4-jaw chuck. My lathe isn't big enough to swing this size of a part, so I did it on the milling machine. It added an extra step because the casting is not flat on the outside. I only took off about .02" to get it flat. I then flipped it over and bolted and clamped it to the table. I used a dial indicator to make sure I did not warp the flange. The rest was easy. I used a large carbide insert cutter and re-machined the surfaces. Steve
Looks like I am doing this now. I have 0 brakes on a 580C I just bought. I haven't even looked at those parts. Please keep the information and photos coming.
Does anyone know what parts below get lubed and what should stay dry on the differential lock assembly? If it needs to be lubed what type should be used? All the manual says is to assemble all the parts and install the unit. Not sure how much brake dust gets into this assembly. I don't want to make a greasy abrasive paste. It was seized when I took it apart. I replaced the cover bushing with a lube-free polymer bushing. Thanks, Steve
I put grease (red bearing grease) on the lever fingers and inside of the collar. I also put some on the shaft so it would not lock up to the cover bushing (x2). I put a light coat on the inside of the cover to stop the rust. I couldn't get the outer spring cleaned up and working. Means I have to be gentle engaging the clutch. If yours is freed I would luge it too.
Putting grease or never seize on the shaft is a good idea but use either sparingly. Also remember never to engage your diff lock with wheels turning, bad things happen then.
Thanks for the tips. I've read the horror stories of engaging the lock under power. Some disconnect it for that reason. I really need 4 wheel drive, so I will be using the differential lock at times. I'm on a slope that has slick clay when wet. The lever fingers and collars are probably the biggest wear areas. What would last longer on this area, moly grease, red grease, or never seize? Steve
I’d molly on them it’s thicker
I didn't know that. Thank You My little Ford 1310 you can bang that diff lock any time.
The 580’s have a tendency to snap the cross shaft in the ring gear.
How does this seal(#25) mount in the picture? Mine were missing including one bracket from the other side of the machine. My service manual is a photocopy and it doesn't have any clear pictures. Also, I went to the wrecking yard and it was mounted under the bracket and turned upside down. That makes more sense because the bracket would hold the seal down. The seal would cover the hole better from debris. In the picture, the bracket would not be doing anything. Thanks, Steve
seal lives nipple up,rides on slave piston to keep grime out of cover...don' t know what that #26 bracket is..not in my parts manual or on my machine...
It doesn't matter what kind of machine it is in regards to differential locks. One thing they all have in common is that great harm occurs when the differential lock is engaged when turning on dry surfaces. It is quite easy to forget to disengage it after using it.
I got around to installing the brake lining on the drum. I found the rivet tool online from Hanson Rivet and Supply Co. The OD was a little too big to reach in the counterbore on the drum so I turned it down on the lathe. I then machined an adaptor to fit it to the arbor press. I also machined a small disk to support the rivet head. The press is a smaller 2-ton size and Hanson Rivet said it would take about 3,500 pounds of force to form the tubular rivet. This is the first time I've ever riveted a brake lining and it did not go as planned. Take a look at the pictures as I have a few cracks in the lining. Not sure what caused this. Too much pressure? Maybe the disk that supports the rivet is too big in diameter? The disk is not tight in the lining. I also followed the riveting pattern as specified in the manual. I sandblasted and primed the drum and hit it with a file to make sure there were no high spots on it. The drum looked pretty flat, but I did not check to make sure it is dead flat. The drilled holes are the right size for the rivet diameter. Do I run it as is or should I start over? Thanks, Steve
That sucks !! after so much prep and tooling adjustment, I think ya got too much squish and they cracked...before I replaced mine they were stress cracked in a similar fashion and didn't chip off ,but do you want to take that chance???I did mine with an air hammer w/trailer door rivet bit on lowest setting,so with that fancy operation you got 2nd time should be a piece of cake....just don't use so much squish...orrr run it ,not so hard to redo in the spring..only thing I'd be concerned about is damaging drum or housing....
I need a favor. I would appreciate if a 580C owner could measure the spring limiting pin that goes inside the spring of the self adjusting brake assembly. It's part number A7975. It's a 5/16 diameter pin, but I need the length. I don't think mine is original. It seems too long. Looking at the pictures in the manual it causes my cam to be rotated at a much different angle. Thanks for the help, Steve
Hi Dirty I don't know if this helps but, here's some pictures. Most of my brakes have been in a cardboard box for years. If you want I can take that arm off and get some exact measurements. I think the part number is A51971. Ron
Nova, Thank you! That helps a lot. Part #A51971 is the old number that is in my printed manual. The new part #A7975 is listed on the Case parts website for a 580C. Your picture is great because the manual doesn't show that the pin physically touches the cam above and the coiled pin below. My machine was missing most of these pieces and nothing was working correctly. Thanks again, Steve
DirtyHoe, What type milling machine is that? R-8 spindle? I noticed in the pic with the arbor press you have a nice assortment of collets also.
Legdoc, It's a Servo II CNC bed mill like the picture below. It has a not so common ISO 40 taper spindle. All the tool holders are secured with a power drawbar. The spindle is a bit larger than a Bridgeport style mill and the holders are a lot more rigid than R-8 tooling. They were popular in the '90s and I don't think they are made anymore, but you can get parts for it. What I love about the machine is it's a hybrid. You can use it as a manual mill with a DRO or CNC program in 3 axis. Very handy since a lot of my repair work does not need CNC capabilities for simple one-off parts. I'm very blessed to have access to my friend's commercial machine shop. It is well equipped with 2 of these mills, 6 Haas CNC vertical mills, and a CNC live tooling lathe, surface grinders, a waterjet cutter, and a wire-cut EDM. Plus all the basic manual lathe, mill, drill press, band saws, etc. There is also an unbelievable amount of tooling to equip a job shop. In addition, there is a complete weld shop with MIG, TIG, stick, and oxy-acetylene. Are you into machining? Steve
Here are the before and after pictures of the brake housing rebuild. The parts are a combination of new, wrecking yard, and custom machined. Everything was sandblasted. All threads were chased with a tap and a die. Sharp edges were hit with a grinder and sanding disc. The big parts were primed and painted. The little stuff was sent to the plater and had electroless nickel plating(ENP) applied. No more rust! The majority of the parts were so corroded and frozen I mostly used an oxy-acetylene torch, a big hammer, and a hydraulic press to get it completely apart. Everything moves smoothly now. Steve
Holy crap, your work is above and beyond awesome! If the rest of the machine is that nice when you're done, ya better put some big ass flags on er and put er in a parade....
It looks great. I didn't do that much to get mine back in service but is is good having brakes. If I were to do it again, I would order new springs, and all brake new material. Not sure I would rebuild the the auto adjuster for a home machine. Did you have the parts plated that are not painted? I have a chrome plating shop local and working on old cars I'll have the bare metal plated so they don't rust again. I don't have the parts polished.
Steve, In a previous life I was a manual and CNC machinist prior to going to medical school. I am a prosthetist-orthotist at a solo practice. I have a Bridgeport Series I and Romi CNC lathe in the laboratory. Excellent work on the project. Paint job is probably much better than original. The attention to detail should be inspiring to all. That level is a rare occurrence.
Outlaw, I struggled with whether or not to fix the auto adjusters. Some said it's not worth messing with and others said they work great when set up properly. My hope is the mechanism will stay corrosion free and should work. Time will tell. Plating for the little guy is hard to find these days. Most shops won't take walk-in traffic. My local plater won't do my parts, so I take them to Eugene, Oregon. Not many chrome platers around because of all the EPA regulations. I use electroless nickel plating on all the steel that is not painted. It's a lot cheaper than messing with primer and paint. Small parts take too long to handle and paint. I typically bring about 75 parts at a time and it only costs a little over $100. Steve
Legdoc, That is a great way to dovetail two specialties. I mix mine with teaching welding and machining to young men in a correctional facility. I had an acquaintance that was in the building trades for years doing work on high-end homes. He liked the lifestyle of his doctor clients. So he went back to school in his early thirties and is now an orthopedic surgeon. You don't see that happen very often. Steve
Getting back on this project and sandblasted the carrier assembly that holds the side gear. The area where the brake disc rubs has a bunch of surface cracks. The drain passage runs from the drilled hole at the bottom to the 6 o'clock position on the bore. Basically under the center of the cracks. It appears to be the weakest area. Can I run it or do these normally continue to break and cause a lot of damage? Steve
If you’re just using it around your farm then run them.
I would like to reuse it. I would hate to throw another $250.00 at my money pit for a replacement. Do you know if these are cast steel or cast iron? I was thinking about welding or brazing the cracks to at least slow the process down. Steve
To me, that looks like heat cracks from the brakes. If so, don't sweat them. We have machined them on truck brakes many many times. They are usually only on the surface. If you are using your machine such that you are not roading it (high gear), you will never get it that hot again.
I believe they’re cast iron but not real sure. Have you checked with www.broken tractor.com to see what their prices are? Or look on eBay they usually have parts for backhoes.
I'm going to run it with the surface cracks. But I couldn't resist resurfacing the brake area. It took about .005 depth of cut to get rid of all of the grooves. I'm pretty sure they are cast iron based on the small chips it produced. I get lucky once in a while- the bolt spacing was the same as the distance on my milling machine T-slots. It made for a quick setup. Steve
Glad to see you're back to work on the machine, but now you're just showin' off Any progress on the transaxle bearing refit?
Stinky64- Not getting as much done as I would like. Between the day job and having several big projects I'm circling around on it slows things down. I'm finding out it's a lot easier to tear things down than it is to get them back together. On the transaxle, I've been cleaning, inspecting, and making small repairs. The parts list is getting bigger and more expensive.
If you're in no hurry maybe a cheap used unit may fall into your path..I know it's discouraging when all that crap starts stacking up.I'll never forget the replies from the guy I bought my machine from "that never leaked before, that wasn't broken before" all that stuff broke sitting in the field I'm up to about $6000+ with my $2000 backhoe, but it's almost new again.....good luck, better days are comin'...
Nice machine work