I finished up installing a new clutch and have the bell housing installed and I'm trying to slide shuttle back into bellhousing. It stopped 1/2" from being tight against bell housing but I cant get on any further. Any ideas what might be holding it up or what I have to do to get it to slide all the way on
It could be the alignment of the clutch plate. Has the spline on the clutch & spigot shaft of the box engaged properly? If not try aligning again, if it has, the problem is the spigot/pilot bearing. TIP - A couple of guide bolts will help to align the box & engine. Use a ruler & measure the gap top & bottom + side to side, get it near perfect - then turn the engine by hand, while someone is putting some pressure at the box end. You will be tempted to start some bolts & pull it in - not a good idea. Best done by hand, tensioning the bolts seems to lock things up & can damage stuff too.
Gaps look good and i have the starter out and turned flywheel and ujoint turns in back of shuttle
Like I said PA, if the spline is engaged, the problem is the pilot bearing, get the gap very close to perfect, rotate the engine & push the box in. Give it a little wriggle & jiggle as well. Keep trying mate - you can do it!
I had this shuttle out once before and took me 3 hrs or more to get it to slide back in. I've given up today, as I will walk away before I break something else. Tomorrow is another day. Are these things always a pain to put back together. Of course im using a piece of $^#% floor jack. Maybe I shoulda put a dab of grease on end of shaft that goes in new pilot bearing too???
One day at the local trans shop, they explained to me the secret is getting the trans shaft parallel to the floor. Then the jack only has to roll on the concrete and not help the trans go in at an angle. This may not help you but it confirms that others have schemed methods to preclude certain installation problems.
Yeah I think ill pull it back down out get it level on jack tie it down to jack good and check the end of shaft that goes into pilot for burrs and try again.
Yeah I think ill pull it back down out get it level on jack tie it down to jack good and check the end of shaft that goes into pilot for burrs and try again. Here's another question for somebody. The clutch disc, where the splined shaft slides thru, one side of the disc is flat and one side has a little body. Which direction does the body go, toward pressure plate or toward flywheel?
Does this help ?
Not really unless im missing something. Bottom left hand corner shows the disc and the body sticking out. Does that body go toward the flywheel then?
Im guessing that body goes towards pilot bearing. Im probably just gonna dig all 500 stumps with a spade shovel if someone tells me i have this disc in backwards.. hahah
Don't get your shovel out yet PA. Although I have never seen a 580B clutch , I have seen a lot of others. If you notice in the parts picture the spline part of the plate extends outward. The reverse side is almost flat. I don't think you can get the pressure plate in place if the disk is in backwards. That protrusion will not allow the plate to go in and against the flywheel. Even if you somehow (unlikely) got the plate in backwards you would never be able to release the clutch.
So body or petrusion towards flywheel and flat side towards pressure plate
Does this help ?
yep it does. gotta be alignment problem. Gonna take back apart tonight and take a deep breath and try again. maybe 1 or 2 cold bev's.
If you are within 1/2 inch of getting it flush with the bell-housing , do as Alrman said. DO NOT force it ! When the pilot bearing and the end of the shaft line up, I can guarantee it will slide right in. I have experienced your problem many times. One in a while it can take a loooong time to get everything lined up. I have always hung the unit on two long bolts , screwed into the top two holes. That is what works for me. There could possibly be something is lodged IN the pilot bearing thus preventing the input shaft from fully seating.
I noticed you didn't reply to Alrmans first and very important question. It could be the alignment of the clutch plate. Are you sure the alignment is OK ? As a sort of last resort - depress and keep the clutch pedal depressed after you get back to within that magic 1/2". It will or should allow the plate to line up properly.
I pretty sure it is. It looked pretty good I used a universal clutch tool but also if it wasnt lined up I would think i would have alot bigger gap, more than 1/2" wouldnt I? I had my son hold clutch pedal down and I wiggled shuttle and then he left out pedal in small increments while I wiggled, I didnt check out the very end of shaft which the old pilot bearing was seized up solid. So i could have some scoring on shaft make it harder to slide in.
Ok after some reconfiguring shuttle went in like butter. Now my question is with new clutch my pedal goes 1/2 way to the floor before you feel tension and i have the fork all the way threaded out on rod coming up thru the floor. Is there other adjustments and where?
Does this help ?
Tinker it shows me all the parts I have but you gotta understand I'm a moron when it comes to this.. hahaha.. How do I adjust? I tried what I believe is #12 fork and locknut but i'm sure theres another adjustment I should be doing? What about #11 that the fork connects too? It looks like it has a set screw in it but also keyed? also the shaft coming out of bell housing has a similar #11 that the horizontal linkage connects to also has a set screw. Do these get turned to give you adjustment?
You are not a moron PA. We all have to go thru a learning process. I am not at all familiar with the adjustment procedure on your 580C. I was wondering tho if, when you depress the clutch the way it is adjusted now, does it fully release the clutch plate ? Does it feel like anything is dragging ? Hopefully Alrman or Melben will read this and help you out.
The free travel for your machine is 1.5- 2.0 inches from the top with the pedal held up by the return spring, this adjustment is a starting point. With a new clutch installed it is not a issue most of the time if the free travel is greater as long as when the pedal is fully pushed to the floor the gears can be engaged with out grinding. As the clutch wears the clearance between the release bearing and fingers gets closer, the free travel keeps the release bearing from making contact with these fingers causing it to slip or take out the release bearing from the constant turning/pressure on it. The set screws will not help you to make any adjustments, but wear on the pins and holes in the bell crank links add up to extra movement that causes adjustment issues. So to have extra free travel is not that big of a issue as long as it does not affect the engaging or disengaging of the trans or shift. I think we spoke of the flywheel cutting (machine shop) before and this will also cause some increase of the spec's also. If I had good pedal with free travel and no issues with the release or engagement I would rap it up and move some dirt.
Don't wait for me, those 580C mechanical configurations don't exist over here...... But Sheepfoot has it covered. If it works, it's fixed. The new plate will change the pedal height for sure. If the lower linkage (looks like 20A) is being used, you may get a little more height there.
Well i made adjustments and got alot more pedal heigth. I got very close to 2" of free pedal travel the only thing I feel different is when the tension starts it's very stiff. I guess quite a bit stiffer than before clutch burning up. Is this normal with new clutch or is there a fine adjustment i need to make. I got one more issue to fix before I can put all back together and try it out. The right side brake housing had a broken off bolt, 1/2" or 7/16" bolt probably 4" to 5" long bolt that I cant get out. It's been like that since day one in my ownership. Also never had really good brakes in my ownership but installed new brakes and master and slaves all the way around and got very good pedal on other side now. Question is if I let that in and put a good coat of permatex for sealing it, whats the chances of it working properly for awhile with only the one other bolt and 2 studs holding the brake housing? I got a .250 hole drilled in it and tried easy out but with a pipe wrench on easy out wouldn't break loose and I'm affraid of easy out snapping off. No torch hear to heat it up other than small propane torch for like soldering and that doesnt do much.
any thoughts?
Which bolt or stud ? It looks like they should all be intact and tight.
Its the bolt that goes thru the 2 ears just below #2.
The parts book shows it to be a pin. Here is the description. # 4 A146505 PIN - spring anchor, 3/8 x 2-7/8" solid type (Used with A138719 and A138736 housing) 2 # 5 ( ! ) 138-71 LOCK PIN,5/32" x 5/8", Slotted PIN, , Anchor spring (Used with A146505 pin) 5/32" x 5/8", Slotted
I don't see how the brake can work very long with that pin not being there and anchored. Here is a better view of it's function.
Its the number 27 bolt that broke off. It goes on top right hand hole of housing and into differential housing
#27 is a spring retainer. The bolt you are referring to is one of the four that holds the brake housing onto the diff. housing. It also retains a lot of other components. If it were mine I would do whatever it takes to get all four bolts in there.
I got the hole drilled out to 3/8". Try a bigger easy out tomorrow with some heat.
Heating it is a good idea. The bolt may have had Loc-Tite put on it.
I'm thinking it should come out now. there isnt much bolt left in there as its paper thin. Hopefully i didnt bung up threads. If so ill just re tap bigger.
Well got the bolt out and brakes put back together. Had to install new master cylinder for right side and got both sides bled out. Everything good. Only question I have is one from before, with a new clutch will the pedal be harder to press down from before or is there a need for fine adjustment. It just seems really super stiff once the pressure starts in the pedal.
You should expect the pedal to be a little harder to depress with a new pressure plate. But it should be comfortable to depress. Does the linkage move freely without being hooked up to the cross shaft that the throw-out bearing fork is hooked to ? In the drawing of the linkage there are two springs, #7 and #28. Are they in the linkage and hooked up ? Be sure to grease arm #17 and oil all the linkage pivot points. It is good to hear you finally got the broken bolt out and replaced. It was certainly worth the effort.
I will have to go back and try to find that drawing and see which you are explaining. Yes I'm kinda glad I did to alot comfort now..
Post #20 in this thread.
Got it.. Thanks Tinkerer.. I will check when I get home, because i still have things to put back together drive shaft etc.. But I'm thinking #28 spring is not on yet, at least I dont remember hooking that back up yet.