I have a lot of fir logs(over 300) that I need to move that I can't pick up. Any idea on how many thousands of pounds a backhoe can push or pull(with a chain) with good traction? How hard is it on the drive-train? Does it have more power pushing or pulling? Also, how does the above scenario apply to skid steers? My Thomas Pro Tough 1700 weighs about 6,500 pounds with a 1,700 pound lift capacity. Nothing in the manual about push and pull capacity. My goal is not to tear anything up. Thanks! Steve
ive pulled and pushed a lot with my case 580c . anymachine you will stress the drivetran doing this . Are you looking to buy a machine for the job or do you already have it ? Most likey a skidder will be the right machine for the job or a dozer
Yes I own this equipment.
I've pulled and carried hundreds of logs with backhoes with no ill effects. But generally use my little tractor.
I mean if the machine is struggling pulling it just buck it smaller?
I use the backhoe skidding backwards ( not long distances) when I want to keep the logs clean so the one end can be lifted off the ground. Doing this it's good to skid from the small end to deduce the amount of weight your lifting to keep the back wheels solid on the ground.
I'm not sure who is going to buy the logs yet. So I need to leave them long so I don't mess up their value. Different wood mills want certain lengths. I'm going to drag them to a staging area so a self loader can work from one spot. Steve
How big are these logs and how far do they need to go? Was it a selective cutting where you will have to work around the remaining trees or a clear cut? Tractor Data says a 580C can lift 4700 lbs. I've lifted some good sized logs with my C to load them on a trailer but it doesn't steer very well with that kind of weight in the bucket. It also doesn't have much clearance when it comes to stumps. Billrog has the right idea and like him I usually use my tractor to drag logs.
Grady, They are plus or minus 16" on the butt end and around 6" on the other. Most are 70 to 80 feet long. I need to move them around 500 feet. They were planted as Christmas trees, but were abandoned. I clear cut the area and cut the trees low so I can drive over them. There were planted on a 6 or 8 foot grid pattern. My machine could probably pick one up, but I don't have a 4 in 1 bucket or forks. I think a chain would be too much work and a danger. Also if I could pick them up it would be too tight to navigate other trees I'm going to keep. I am replacing the ring and pinion is a farm tractor that was worn out. So my main question was can these machines handle a lot of pushing and puling without tearing stuff up? The worst part is going to be pulling stumps in the path of the driveway and buildings. I may have to rent an excavator for that phase. Steve
I was doing a lot of grading up hill with my 480c this past summer, and after awhile I could smell the shuttle trans getting hot, so I quit for awhile. Do you have some junk laying around and are handy? Do you have a old wagon axle or trailer sitting around that you could strap under the log to help it skid with less resistance?
You haven't mentioned four wheel or two. 580K I know is fine with pulling, but it's a little inconvenient to chain under the hoe swing tower, and hooking to the bucket is all wrong. Using the front bucket is good if short drags. If you must pull going forward, use a heavy weight (boulder) in the front bucket, and carry it low. USE YOUR SEAT BELT! Tire chains are useful.
Those logs probably aren't going to drag easily unless you lift one end. I still think your C would do it but it's not the best machine for that job. I don't know what tractor you have but I've dragged pine logs just as long but twice as big around with my old farmall M OS6 with chains. I wasn't weaving in and out dodging trees and I plowed some serious furrows doing it but it was all I had at the time. My tractor has individual brakes so that's how I did most of the steering. If you cut them off close to the ground, the logs usually have a lot of taper at the butt that digs in when you drag them from that end - unless lifted. My experience is that tractors are better at pulling than pushing. I never tore anything up pulling things but I did trash the differential in a 580CK pushing too much. It's not a dozer. I used this site http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl to figure the weight of each one as 2167 lbs. using your figures and the balsam fir for the species. I don't know what your tractor or skid steer is capable of but logs that long increases the drag. I hope you cut the branches off close. Is there a market for logs that long out there? Around here 20' is about the biggest I see and usually 16'. Might want to find out first - shorter ones drag easier and faster.
What is M OS6? I can't find a picture of my M (1940) I have my son's. Mine has perfect sheet metal, but faded paint. Edit: I found one! My son's M with a family friend in the pilot's seat, mine in the background. Seth has dubbed his Lindsey, after Lindsey Vonn the skier. He says she is big and beautiful. Willie
It's tough to learn skidding. If you pull from too low, the butts hang up. If you pull from too high, you might flip the tractor over backwards. That won't happen with your backhoe. I use this: With your hoetry swinging the hoe up hill, and chain to the boom a couple feet above the ground.
I like the idea of swinging the hoe uphill to hook closer to the centerline of the axle. You increase the tendency to tip backwards, but the hoe's back there and you have a cab, and you can lower the outriggers halfway if the trail is nice enough. You should be able to tow a ton easy, just watch the temps if you go crazy doing it all at once, the torque converters aren't designed for sustained pulls IMHO. Don't even think about using a skid steer to tow logs.
I picked up whole trees with my 580c and moved them around
If you leave the hoe centered, and hook to the bucket, there isn't a boulder big enough to serve as counter weight. If you chain below the hoe, it snaggs up on every rock, and stump. Trying to compromise by swinging the hoe up hill, and hooking a couple feet above ground I'd suggest. Skid in winter. Tractor won't overheat, driver won't overheat, If ground is frozen, no dirt. No mosquitos, no black flies. Remember, BLACK FLIES MATTER. Willie
Willie, We live in a parallel universe. We both have M tractors, We both have the TD7E Dozer, and we both have a 580K and I'll bet your universe isn't more than a couple hours away. Pretty strange coincidence. The OS-6 is just an M made for use in an orchard. It has shorter rear tires [mine are the 14.9 x 26], shorter steering set up, short air intake and short exhaust that makes it a good rig for working in the woods. Mine has a hand clutch so you can drive it standing up like a chariot so it's easy to jump on and off. It's got a lot of low end, too. I had the front wheels 2 feet off the ground pulling some big logs with a chain from the drawbar. Here is a picture of one I found online. I don't know how to post pics anymore since they changed it over. If someone wants to take the time to explain it to me or direct me to the instructions, I'll post one of mine. I think mine is a 1948. McCormick-Deering OS-6, restored version captured at a California antique tractor show Model history Model introduced 1944 Model discontinued 1953 Model status Discontinued Preceded by New model Engine Specification Engine make International Engine model C-248 Fuel type gasoline Power hp 37 belt, 32 drawbar Governed rpm 1450 Displacement cu in /(litre) 248 ci No. of Cylinders 4 Bore in (mm) 3.875 in Stroke in (mm) 5.25 in Cooling system water Naturally aspirated, Turbo or Supercharged NA Transmission Details Transmission type sliding gear Gearbox make International Forward 5 Reverse 1 Drive 2-WD General Data Linkage Category drawbar Tyre Sizes (std/options) Front 6.00-16 4-ply Rear 14-26 6-ply Tractor Dimensions Length (inches/metres) 133 in Width (inches/meters) 60 in Height (inches/meters) 62 in Weight (nominal) lb/kg 4600 lb Turning circle (nominal) inches/meters 25.5 ft Wheelbase 76 in Other info Factories Rock Island, Illinois, USA Plow rating 3-14" Nebraska Tests No. 355 Approximate Cost new in (year) $2335 (1951) This box: view · talk The McCormick-Deering OS-6 was an orchard tractor built by the International Harvester company from 1944 to 1953 in Rock Island, Illinois, USA . Contents [ show ] Model history Edit For Company history see Main article: International Harvester The McCormick-Deering OS-6 was basically the O-6 without the shielding. It retained the lowered air intake and exhaust, headlights, seat, and controls. Timeline Edit 1940 - McCormick-Deering W-6 gasoline-powered standard-tread tractor replaced the W-30 1940 - Later in year, O-6 orchard, based on W-6, replaced orchard version of W-30 1944 - OS-6, without the shielding of the O-6, added 1946 - Brand name shortened from McCormick-Deering to McCormick 1953 - OS-6 discontinued Factory locations Edit Farmall Works, Rock Island, Illinois, USA Specification Edit See Infobox for basic details Standard tires Front: 6.00-16 4-ply (1946) Rear: 12-26 6-ply (1946); 13-26 6-ply (1948); 14-26 6-ply (1951) Variations and Options Edit Optional tires Front: 6.00-16 6-ply or 6.50-16 4 or 6-ply (1946) Rear: 13-26 or 14-26 6-ply (1946) Serial Numbers Information Edit Year Serial no. run start [1] Serial no. run End [1] Number Built Notes 1944 OBKS6313 9495 Serial range includes W-6, WD-6, O-6, OS-6, ODS-6, I-6, ID-6 1945 9496 14152 Number built included with W-6 1946 14153 17791 1947 17792 22980 1948 22981 28703 1949 28704 33697 1950 33698 38517 1951 38518 44317 1952 44318 45273 1953 45274 45843 [2] Share More Info McCormick OS-6.jpg See full size image Added by Edrob Posted in McCormick McCormick-Deering OS-6 User:Edrob/McCormick-Deering OS-6
All great ideas! Thanks for the input. I'll call around to see what the local mills want for log lengths. Delmer: Out of curiosity what is the weak link on a rubber tired skid steer? The chain drive assembly or the gerolers? Steve
I would think the chain. every machine has its breaking point... I think the backhoe has a better chance of moving the trees honestly
I think if I were doing it, I'd chain the butt end up to the front bucket, pick it up enough to clear the ground, and drag backwards. If weight and traction become an issue, you can transfer some weight to the rear wheels by stretching the hoe out behind you.
If you have a 2wd the reverse clutch pack is your weak point. Also I would use 1st gear for heavy pulls.