ok in this pic there a line on the top cover it goes to a tee ,the other line it meets is from the injectors then in goes into a short rubber line then into what i think is a check valve in the frame then .back in to the fuel tank. ok Question if i were to break open that fitting / line on that top cover does fuel come out under pressure or gravity . my issue is that ( i posted once before ) that i can start cold ok but when i turn off motor and try too start a few minute later i get no fuel . solenoid getting stuck wont open on power up /key / i resort by relieveing presure in the pre injector pump line by opening the drain on the water sep filter . then she stars right up t i have a new case solenoid / i got two others new oem / they all work on a bench test . so im guessing that after you turn motor off , normally the leftover fuel under pressure goes out that top cover and back into the tank ? is this correct im figuring there's a blockage in that return line ? or that check valve stuck? anti drain check valve A177556 is there anybody that know there shXt to help . i need to turn it off and on without issues im not the let it idle all the time type
If you have to bleed the air out of the system everytime you stop and start.. your introducing air in the system.. VERY WELL could be from the rubbers inside those connectors on the top cover.. they wont leak fuel BUT WILL suck air.. You can bypass the solenoid by removing the guts.. spring and plunger.. if you have the removable type.. and just screwing the body back in the pump.. THAT will tell you if you have an electrical problem.. you can shut it down with the lever at the front of the pump.. TO BLEED the system.. use the small bleeder screw right above the name plate.. double screw w/ 5/16" head.. That engine looks like a marine application.?? TO MANY TIMES I've seen the electric lift pump be bad.. or sucking air at the filter.. 1 other thing.. the line to the left.. the return line from the pump.. remove the fitting from the pump.. if it has a checkball in it, KNOCK IT OUT. Those lines are a REAL BI**H.. USE A LINE WRENCH to loosen them..
It doesn't sound like you're bleeding air, just relieving the pressure. Which makes no sense to me... Here's the other thread if it makes sense to anybody else. HeavyEquipmentForums I quoted TPG because that's what I would do, the return fitting first, check and clean it, you don't have to knock it out if you don't want to. I wonder if there's a blockage in the fuel tank filter area that's letting air suck back in over a few minutes when shut off?
Not a marine application, late '80s-early '90s Case backhoe, mechanical lift pump, not electric. Otherwise, everything you said is spot-on.
The reason I said to knock out the ball is.. its a floating checkball,.. if it bottoms in the housing.. actually gets stuck in the UP position.. it will create to much housing pressure and not allow fuel in.. till it bleeds off.. by the tiny orifice on the top cover.. SOME HAVE to ball.. some dont.. if it does.. knock it out.. I think Delmer was on to something in his #3 post about "pressure"..
no air issues / i just need to let out a few spurts of fuel . if theres any pressure in the line between the lift pump and the injector pump the little plunger on the solenoid wont pop down to open the flow . just by gettting the pres/down down it starts up fine ........ just that one has to get out of cab open the hood etc. evertime it gets this isssue . damn solenoids work nice i pull them out reattach the wire /turn the key /it pops down / im baffled when i do open the water seperator bleed i get a pretty good spurt / i have a mechanical lift pump / not like a major hasssle but dumping fuel on the ground .. it's like having that ball of lint in your just washed sock . going crazy here .lol so thats my impression is that built up pressure is suppose to dissapate after you turn off the engine ? or does it hold if i wait more that 20 or so minutes the pressure is gone then we can start itup normally so best bet is that check ball stuck? or blockage in that return somewhere 73 degrees today . snow on monday trees flowering there goes the apple harvest dag gon it
yeah i returned that spring from the other post . believe that fit the original 1988 style solenoids the new solenoids have the spring inside with rubber boot on top cant disassemble / sealed unit think it was too pain in butt to do a install of the old style while in field damn thing mounts on the backside of pump that is not the actual pic above but exact same i have
If there's a blockage in the return between the pump and tank, the engine will start, run a few seconds, then die; over and over. I've ridden that horse before.
Yes, I would say the return fitting is your best bet. You could try loosening the return line at different points to see if that helps it start. After the fitting on the pump it should be clear to the tank. How cold are you expecting, I wouldn't write off the apple crop just yet. 2012 was a warm spring and very early apple bloom, then it froze. Didn't hurt the apple crop around here, but there were a lot of counties that had one apple every few dozen trees. 2013 was one heck of a crop further north, and no worms even in completely unsprayed trees.
To answer your question, will that line be gravity or pressure; If the lift pump is being operated there will be some pressure, if its not then there will be no pressure to speak of as that is only an overflow pipe , as indicated by it returning to the tank. loosening it, or the other return line should not introduce air into the system UNLESS it is plumbed into a filter on the intake side with a 1 way valve. As to having to relieve pressure for the solenoid to work to allow starting does not make sense , I think you have other issues somewhere. Cheers Scott
My experience with hard starting hot has always be something loose cause it to sucking air.
ok i,d like to throw out another question . the lift pump has a primer on it you can manually pump . can i pump that pump and litterally keep on pumping fuel in a circle back to the tank via that overflow . on my machine i can get two pumps before i can feel it wont add any more cause the pressure in the line is built up to a point that the pump rated for and the pump lever goes up and down very freely not like on the first two depresses. so if i take off the return line by the check valve on the frame fuel tank return port and pump .can i get fuel to come out as to try to see if i got a blockage in that overflow line . i gonna get this b*****d evil gremlin issue resolved at the same time run some air into that check vavle to see if its functional
Okay, had to look twice and then go to the parts book. That fitting in the top cover with the small line is a bleed orifice. You need to remove the line, remove the fitting, be sure it's not plugged, and the take the fuel tank cap off and blow through the small line, or the tee where it connects gently to make sure you're clear back to the tank. First time I've ever seen on like this that I can recall, the main return tees directly back to the pressure line, you can see the white tee behind the pump there and the parts book for a 580K shows that as factory. The little bleed line and orifice is supposed to bleed pressure off back to tank and I think that's your problem.
Yes you can do that if all is functioning correctly. The overflow pipe from the top housing(governor housing) is here a bleed screw normally resides, its an automatic bleed? Cheers Scott