Hi everyone, I've been a lurker for a little while and just signed up. Sorry if this question has been asked but I did not find anything using the search. I have a 580k 4x4 (later model) and the front differential grenaded 2 or 3 days after I bought it. Long story, but it's been a couple of years since I bought it and I've just been driving it in 2wd and listening to the metal clank around since then, hoping to find a complete axle to swap in. I can swap the gears but they are pretty expensive to buy, and I haven't found any donor backhoes. I've started thinking about swapping in a non-Case axle and just fabbing everything up myself. The one thing I don't know is what gear ratio these things are. Short of ordering the ring gear and pinion, and doing the math myself, I'm hoping someone might know off the top of their head. Hoping it's a fairly common ratio. Thanks
I may have answered my own question. I found a set of gears on eBay for the older 580K pre-20000 SN and it had the number of teeth listed: 47 and 7. That's a 6.72:1 gear ratio, which is perfect for what I'm thinking about doing. What I'm unsure of, is if the older 580k uses the same gears as the newer 580k. Looking at part numbers on the Case site doesn't help because all of the part numbers are discontinued/superseded. So it's not a complete answer, but I think I'm pretty close if anybody can verify any of this. If they are the same, the gears can be had for about $500, so I'll probably go that route. The prices I was getting prior to this were in the $1200 range just for parts, or about $3000-4000 for a complete front axle.
Yair . . . If its perfect or not it must match the rear wheels. I have no knowledge of the machines but wheel sizes and gearing may have changed over the years. Cheers.
Also, the K has planetary gearing at the wheels. I'll try to figure it out. I think mine is 1988 model. I have manuals but I have wondered as mine binds up and scuffs the ground in 4x4. I pretty much only use 4x4 on very slippery ground, or while filling the bucket. Getting it out of 4 wheel drive requires lifting the front wheels off the ground. I've always wondered if a slight change in front tire size would solve the binding issue. Willie
Tire pressures can cause this problem as it alters the gear ratio. I operated a wheel loader years ago which was driven from site to site. It snapped the posts in both front hubs because the tires were different sizes front to rear.
Willie, What size tires are you running? My K seems to shift in and out of 4wd without issue. I'll have to go out and check to be sure but I think the rears are 16.9 x 24 and the fronts 12 x 16.5.
If it helps any here are the recommended tire pressures from the service manual.
OP, time to get out the wrenches and pull out the remains of the gears and see what you originally had. You're going to have to do it anyway, so you might as well know if the ratio is the same.....
Once you know what you're looking for, there are a lot of used equipment bone yards around. Someone has what you need.
My rears are 17.5. Would 16.9 be standard? I could see upping the fronts slightly, but rears are expensive. Willie
Yair . . . I say again about the importance of matching ratios and tyre diameters. I don't know what discrepancy is allowable but running any machine so it winds up so much it is difficult to get out of front drive would be problematical at best . . . usually results in front diff failing. I once saw new front tyres fitted to a big Ford cause a failure . . . they were the same sticker size but larger in O/D than the originals and combined with the worn rears there was enough windup to cause a failure. Cheers.
I'm not sure what came standard - I got mine used. My C has the 17.5 rears but it's 2WD. They're still in good shape or I'd be interested. I do need a 14.9 x 24 if you have any of those kicking around. Maybe the 4WD K's came with the 16.9's?
I can't find my operators manual. I found specifications on the internet. There were many choices of rear, 14.9, 16.9, and 17.5 The heaviest was 17.5 10PR. I recall from the operators manual that different tires were used depending on options. Tractors with extend a hoe are listed as 2050 LBS heavier than without. Part of the weight is dipper, and hydraulics, but bigger counter weight, and tires also add weight. Mine could use much heavier front weight, and a large boulder in the front bucket stabilizes the digging. They don't sat which front pairs with which rear. I'll presume biggest goes with biggest. If that's the case, I have the biggest rear, and the biggest front. I've been thinking on calculating the mismatch front to back. Short of winding equal length of string with tires in the air, how would it be measured? Willie
The 4wd K machines with extendahoe came with the 16.9x24 or the 17.5Lx24 ten ply R4, the front had 12x16.5 six or eight ply lug, two wd machines had 11Lx16 ten ply front tires and the same rear options. They also had the 17.5Lx24 eight ply R4 rears for both with the standard 14' backhoe. A 4x1 bucket added 1,150 pounds, 4x4 front end added 400 pounds, extendahoe around 2,100 pounds, choice of 400 or 900 pound front counterweight. Most of the time depending on working conditions you would wear out 3-4 front tires to one rear.
I've been dragging my feet on taking the front diff apart because I do use the machine at least three days per week. Ideally I'd like to get new gears or a complete axle lined up first and then just do it once. I've been looking for an axle for about a year, so far nothing has turned up. If anybody can point me in the right direction, it would be great. I'm in northern Arkansas. On the tire height deal, uneven air pressure can change the tire height considerably. But as long as you are on loose ground, the drivetrain can handle the final gear ratio variation. If a front end is locking up, it's likely a mechanical issue. Mine blew up because the guy I bought it from had someone weld the carrier about a week before I got it. Either the weld didn't hold or the backlash wasn't set correctly when reinstalled. I was on icy blacktop, going downhill, had no choice but to be in 4wd. The front wheels locked up and then it sounded like a shotgun blast went off before I could stop the tractor. The gear reduction at the hubs really puts a lot of strain on the ring gear in that situation. String method is hard to do with the weight of the tractor on the tires. Something easier would be to use scrap lumber and make a T stand. Park on flat ground. Then use a short flat board across the top of each tire and mark the T stand. Or build yourself a really big set of calipers. Haha. Really I think as long as the tires are within 1/2" of each other, it should be fine. You can eyeball that with a tape measure. I have aligned trucks with T stands and tape measures, it can be extremely accurate if everything is squared up.
One other thought on the final ratio front to rear. A real easy way to find out if they are the same is to mark a front tire and a rear tire with paint, at the lowest point of each tire. Then get all 4 tires in the air, engage 4wd, and see if the front rotates one revolution when the rear does. They should both point in the same direction. As old as these machines are, it's likely that some have mismatched tires.
Why not take the one you have apart and see exactly what's wrong with it? It might not be as bad as you think.
As they are different sizes, I don't want them to match. I want them to cover equal distance on the ground. Willie
Here is a screen shot of the tire sizes from the operators manual.