Hey, Got a 583K pipelayer with a D342 engine in it. It has a mis and so far haven’t figured out why. Pulled the nozzles on cylinders 1,2&6 because they were the coldest 3 exhaust temps as shot with a temperature gun on the manifold. Put in 3 known good nozzles and no change. Engine still has a stumble/stutter to it. At one point #1 was 100C cooler than #5, which was 270C after driving it a bit. The other 2 are 30-40C cooler. Maybe 2&6 aren’t an issue, but pretty sure #1 is having some greif. Without getting to far into this ridiculous long story, this engine was “procured” in a machine that was bought for parts, but was fully functional at time of purchase. I found the fuel system primer pump full of brown rusty looking “schmoo” Filter bowl didn’t have a screen installed and was also full of said “schmoo”. Fuel filters were a bit better but by no means did their contents look like clean diesel fuel. When I first fired it up and was cracking fuel lines, #1 let out some of the infamous “schmoo”, then quickly cleared up to clean fuel, but obviously the crap made it through out the entire system. So now Im wondering what to do next. Today, i got a boroscope in the cylinder on #1, and its not looking so awesome. Definitely had rust going on in there and there is little to no x hatch. Could compression be low enough to not fire the cylinder? One would think blow by would be through the roof if that was the case, which I guess I didn’t look that closely at but didn’t see obvious smoke or oil vapour billowing from that area. How can I confirm its a fuel issue or a compression issue or what? Should I try and make a compression tester adapter and get a reading of that cylinder’s compression? When I loosen the fuel line on the nozzle, fuel is squirting all over, but doesn’t seem to make a big difference in sound. Any help is greatly appreciated.
If u have an extra injector, that would make a good adapter.. Simply remove the guts and cut the tip back until u get to 1 large hole in the center. U still need a gauge.. and a line that will connect the inj to the gauge.. Remember, u CANT USE a compression gauge for a gasoline engine, on a diesel.. The compression numbers are to hi on a diesel and could possibly blow up the gauge.. The minimum for a diesel engine is 300 psi.. If ur not getting a noise change when loosening the line, that means it’s not firing properly.. Just like pulling the spark plug wire on your car, trying to find a miss..
Yeah thats my thoughts too. I would like to know what’s causing the cylinder to miss. - compression too low - fuel not injecting - fuel is injecting, but not properly? Maybe not related, but noticed that one of the valves is wet and has a perfect straight line on it where its wet. Seemed kinda weird Also the tip of the Nozzle was wet with fuel, which maybe isn’t too weird but kind of since the engine was just running at operating temperature right before we pulled it out.
U might be over thinkin it a smidge..’ Find the cylinder w the miss and just swap the injector to the hole furthest away ..& see if the miss followed the injector or stayed w the cyl.. easy peasy..
i did already put in 3 new ( known good ones) injection nozzles. Or fuel delivery valves as Cat calls them. It didn’t change much. It might sound a little bit better but still stumbles at high idle. 3,4,5 run around 240 Celcius 1is 160C maybe And around 200 on the other 2.
Maybe Im expecting too much out of this old hunk of Iron? But I would expect it to run with a steady exhaust note not constantly burbling and spit & sputter. Plus when it sputters, it puffs different colour smoke, sometimes more white usually darker black. It also seems to have a fairly steady black haze, not real thick but seems more than “normal”.
could be a faulty or dirty delivery valve in the plungers and barrels in injection pump for those cold cylinders too, causing it
I think all looks good in the pics. How are the fuel lines from the tank and the age of the fuel? How about air filters? Black haze, rack? Turbo? In tank screen? Just things to check.
The fuel is fairly new, the machine was being used daily as of may or june this year. It looks and smells fine. Air filters are not new, but clean, I blew them out anyway. Can a guy easily go into the pumping elements on the injection pump to inspect anything? Or is that a stay out of the there zone? I have never been into one personally, but wouldn’t have an issue doing it if its a matter of being careful and such. But if it involves special tools etc maybe not. Im worried the rusty schmoo has damaged the injection pump. This unit has a unknown history, and based on the obvious rust damage on the cylinder walls of #1, it may have sat for a long time, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the injection pump is in less than good condition. So far everything I’ve been into has been complete junk. Engine oil pump was Fukkt with a capital F, the oil pick ul screen was so plugged up it was collapsed, oil pump drive worn right out, crank thrust surfaces shot, fuel system full of crap, under carriage crap and on and on. Classic “trying to save money” by not doing it properly. And Im stuck in the middle trying to be the turd polisher.
What would be worst case if it just gets left as is? Might foul up the cylinder if its not firing properly and maybe start using oil? Excessive blow by? I have a feeling the owners are gonna say F it and send it as is. Its there call I suppose.
Out of curiosity,how long have you left this engine running? These old D342’s can cough and splutter abit when cold until they settle down. A bit like me really.
It Ran quite awhile, probably close to 2 hrs at full Rpm the first time, then at least an hour plus, I took it for a bit of a shake down drive to see if a little bit of shake rattle and roll would help anything, but so far not much has changed. I suspect there gonna say screw it, let it go to work as is. Being a pipe layer it doesn’t really have to work very hard, does alot of sitting and holding pipe.
I'm surprised they don't want a top tier engine retro fit there in Canada? you know emissions. And reason 1 that I don't understand the ridiculous high prices on almost 50 year antique equipment.
sometimes if you have low compression on one cylinder you can hear it when cranking with the fuel off.
So i made up an adapter today to fit the glow plug hole. Its 3/8 -24. Just used a regular 3/8” fine thread bolt essentially. Anyway, of the three I could check, it has a consistent 350psi compression. Interesting though, I hooked my cylinder leak down tester to it and all three cylinders failed miserably. Anywhere from 95% and up for leakage, with very noticeable air blasting into the crankcase. But it has somewhat decent compression so I guess that doesn’t explain the miss. Double checked valve set, none were tight. Didn’t think they would be, but gotta check. So last resort, dumped the fuel filters and filled with straight ATF. Ran it for 5 minutes, refilled filters, so on and so on until I punched 3 litres through it. Now gonna let it sit, gotta another job to go do for now anyway. While I was running it I started cracking injector lines again at the pump, and It seems fairly consistent that each line does actually make the exhaust noise change, so maybe the miss isnt just one single cylinder. Im not too sure what to make of it. Each line spurts fuel all over when loosened And each one seems to make the engine noise change when loosened. Maybe air in the fuel somehow? It seems to start fine though. What about the emmissions line from the intake manifold to the injection pump? Could I do anything with that to “exercise” the internals of the injection pump? At this point Im thinking its a injection pump issue, not sure if there’s anything a guy can really do to check though? I was actually thinking could you pull out the injector nozzle and put it on the fuel line just spraying into the open air to visually see the spray pattern? I guess Im hung up on this #1 being quite a bit cooler exhaust temp when shot on the manifold. Well that and it spits and sputters a bit at WOT. Although it seems to be getting slightly better the more I monkey around with it, so maybe whatever it is will magically fix it self!
Put 1 psi of air to the tank with a blow gun and rag ball over filler hole and check to see if fuel leaks anywhere. A leak with pressure will be sucking air when running. On your cylinders with low compression try with a quality varsol gun to shoot some Transmission on on top of piston and coat the walls. Then try your compression test over again and if number goes way up, way higher pressure , you have stuck or broken rings. Just an idea to try. Simon C
Number 1 cylinder is always a low temp reading due to it being so close to the fan, yes i know its most probably running a blower fan on your 78V, the fluttering thing can be from a failed exhaust joint or manifold or the Horse shoe collar and pins in the injector pump, you can just hook up a nozzle hand tight on an adapter and hook it to a spare fuel line and spin the motor to see stuff, its messy but they crack off at around 750 psi, if you look at the tips if there is pimple type marks on the ends of the shiny bit furthest from the adapter they are done for, running with a flutter at high idle is the Horse Shoe, this Tractor was built with both the early counter bore engine then later with the spacer plate motor with the same 300 BHP.
I think TC nailed it. Check the Horseshoe/pulsation dampner on the injection pump. You can check by removing the cover where the rack setting gauge goes, insert a pencil to where it touches the rack and restrict the pulses. See attached info... If that is the culprit you will need to replace the horseshoe and dowels.
Average/normal cylinder temp on most {I say Most} diesel engines idling is 300 to 400 degrees F. 160C should be 320-so it's in the ball park for temp. But I disagree with the photos-that cylinder showed a wide rust trough plus that open valve really wasn't seating for crap, now whether that is causing a issue that would take further investigation. The front cylinder as said can run cooler in some cases. But lousy compression combined with a fuel delivery issue-yes. * what was compression on #1? or did I miss that.
thanks everyone for the shared knowledge. I very much appreciate everyone’s help. The compression on the three cylinders I checked was at 350 psi pretty much exactly. The other ones had the glow plug too tight up against the rocker box to access it. But kind of weirdly those three cylinders totally bombed a cylinder leak down test. Anyway, for now the machine has to go to work, plus it does seem to have cleared up quite a bit over the last couple days so thats good. Its way less noticeable now especially with the muffler and stack on as before it was open pipe right off the turbo. Its definitely on borrowed time with the condition its in and the rust damage in the cylinders, but for now it seems decent. Thanks again !