I have a 6way JD350B dozer blade that I am fitting up to my Cat 259D3 CTL. I have the QA plate and will weld it in place with the only major mod I have seen so far is adjusting the angle cylinder brackets to allow the blade to set as close to the machine as possible preventing the machine from standing on its toes every time you lift the blade. The inside 6 way blade came off of an early JD350B I purchased last year as a parts machine when I was running my own 350B for road maintenance etc on our farm. The weight seems a bit less than that of a 1300 Grouser and similar makes/models so I should be fine there. JD was using the 6300 series blades then and in total the 72" blade set up rang in at 1315 lbs. Considering I will be cutting off 300 lbs or more off the frame (removing boom cylinders, all framework behind the angle cylinder brackets) maybe more, I feel it should be fine. Unless someone can tell me differently and why. Where I am stumped is the electronic valve body which will allow the float and all other functions to operate as they should. Then I need the wiring harness and 14 pin connector. It isnt rocket science, and the fab work doesn't look as though it will be anything complicated, I just dont want to be reinventing the wheel. Hopefully someone has done this before with great success or at least can guide me on what other manufacturers are using for electronic valve selectors and wiring harness.
I would say this as something to consider and has nothing to do with the fab. The midsize 259D3 has a short track footprint. By placing that blade as close as possible to the machine may help manage the front end weight, but it will make operation of the blade even more difficult than it would normally be. Your short footprint and close positioning to the front of the machine is going to be incredibly difficult to effectively cut any sort of grade. I am not sure what kind of work your wanting to do with the blade so that matters as well. There are many of these blade attachments laying around not being used. Everyone thinks they will work great only to quickly determine that they are largely ineffective. Your lower hp, weight and lack of track on the ground is really going to limit it's ability. You could put a lot of time into this project and end up with an attachment that is functionally ineffective. I have a DL550 Minitour CTL that was designed to run a 6 way blade. What makes it effective is the length of track, positioning of the blade relative to the machine, weight and tractive effort. All these are things a 259 doesn't have in its favor to run a dozer blade. Your tendency to "mogul" your push is going to be significant. I would at least see if you could find a 6 way that you could rent. Spend a weekend with it and decide if a blade fully engineered does what you want it to with your machine. At least then you could decide if the effort will be worth it.
Ha, Mogul.......good description.
72" wide, 25 degree highest angle and at that 31" from connector plate which is less than most CTL 6 way blades. Short track group contact with narrow blade actually works. Not sure what your machine does, but as I stated earlier this will be used for road maintenance and not much else. Not looking to replace my dozer, for if I was, I would buy another dozer. The question and point of the post was not to direct and discuss the purpose of the build rather an inquiry of those whom have performed the build before. Small machine or not, each machine can handle a blade proportionate to its footprint.
KSSS is talking from experience and his suggestion of renting a 6 way blade to see how it works is good advice. You won't find many, if any, people who have converted a CTL to a 6 way dozer. There's a reason you don't see dozer blades on skid steers or CTL's. Snow blades yes but not dirt blades. They just don't work very good and are very hard to grade with. Any amount of material on the blade will add to its weight and want to pull it down. This is even more pronounced if you're trying to cut a grade. KSSS has a purpose built machine designed to run a 6 way and it is a way different machine. His suggestion of renting a 6 way blade was so you could see if it was worthwhile to proceed with your project. Your thinking that each machine can handle a blade proportionate to it's footprint is flawed. Just trying to save you some frustration. You'd be better off with something like a Bobcat grader attachment or maybe you could adopt gauge wheels to your blade.
Okay..im going to address the issues as you presented.... convert a CTL to a 6 way dozer.....that is NOT what I am doing! You do understand that dozers grade much better than CTLs? The blade assembly is just that and has nothing to do with the hydraulics or the operator. Snow blades, we arent discussing snow blades! So the blade of a dozer doesnt work very well and is hard to grade with????? I have graded miles with a 350/450/550 JD Dozers! Any amount of material on the blade, any blade will add to its weight????? I am not referring to KSSS's machine and have no consideration of such. Why would I rent a blade when I have ran and operated many dozers, CTLs, and such with blades? I am confused as to why you think im asking the question as to if I "should" when I am actually asking of those whom "have". So you are affirmative in that a 73 HP machine is incapable of operating a simple 6way blade of 72" properly? This is your stance when 90% of all skid steer attachment manufacturers are selling 6 way blades much heavier on a consistent basis to purchasers world wide on a daily basis for this 73 hp machine??????? Please explain your basis for such comments as im not following. I am willing to listen, I am just not following.
I am looking to dress a drive of stone and maintain it properly. Not looking to do much cutting although I may attempt at time. I have had the dozer here fo heavy work and thats fine although the conversion father spare 350 blade is not a huge deal. not sure why everyone wants to poke holes rather than assist in finding answers. if I want cut and grade I will o so with an actual dozer, otherwise CTLs are one for cleaning and grading. It's a 73hp machine that many are using the grouser 1300s on......wth..... im looking to have a glorified snow blade however made out of a JD 350 dozer. I am sure someone has done it before and sure as hell need not debate whether I should or not..... for gods sake.... its a simple deal which would be lighter than factory sold attachments for the same machine so pleas continue to tell em how wrong I am......OMG
I don't think it matters, you're going to do what you want. You came on the forum hoping for people to say what you wanted to hear or have done the conversion. That didn't happen, instead you were cautioned your idea may not work as you expect it to. In fact you may be very disappointed. Renting a similar blade to what you have was an excellent suggestion. Perhaps Grouser would let you demo one of their blades if they're so popular or give you the names of the "many" customers who have bought them. You can't compare a dozer engineered to run a 6 way blade with a CTL. They are totally different animals. The fact is you won't find people who have had success with 6 way blades on CTL's. They're available but that doesn't mean they work well. You could have 200 HP and it wouldn't make any difference. If they worked good you'd see them all over the place and there would be several threads on here talking about how well they work. In fact the exact opposite is true. I'd like to see where all these 6 way blades are being sold. Here are a few comments on the subject from people who have experience with them. These are just from 2 threads on the subject. CM1995 I have not run a 6 way on a CTL but I have on a SSL and I'll say this - if you want to punish an operator put him on a SSL with a 6-way blade to make any sort of grade. It may be an entirely different situation on a CTL but I doubt it. You may want to look at a grader blade with the wheels out front as they seem to perform better however I have no experience with them. I do have a Cat BB124 box blade with laser automatics on it that works great on flat surfaces but's not the best at windrowing material to one side or the other. KSSS I am sure somewhere, someone is happy with their CTL blade purchase, but there are boat loads of people that gave up on that. Especially on a small machine, even if it is a tracked machine. The only guys that personally know that are happy with them is the guys doing drain tile seem to have some success with them. heymccall Pretty sure that I've got 2 6way units buried in the weeds. Don't do it. Impossible to grade with. Tags Senior Member I would tend to agree with others. Complete waste of money for your application. A Tilt-Tach, grader attachment, or even just a toothed bucket will be more useful to you in the long run. I can see where the blade seems like it would do well but it just does not perform like you would expect. CM1995 If I want to run off an operator put him on a wheeled skid steer with a 6 way blade to grade a parking lot. Seriously, I've had a couple friends that have tried them, a few bought them and all hated them. Basically it's worthless as tits on a boar hog on a skid or CTL - just my $.02. A regular bucket can do the same and more if one knows how to work the machine. The grader blades with wheels out front are a totally different story for fine grading. I have the Cat box blade with full auto laser and it's a fantastic tool but it is pricey. Tags I will echo CMs comments....I had one, used it on a cat 287B, once or twice. It was awful. It is nothing like running a dozer, you are supposed to use the bucket tilt to raise and lower while grading so the loader arms rest on the stops, it is counterintuitive. You can do everything with the bucket that you could with that blade with a little experience and creativity....
OMG!!!! I am not trying to debate whether a 6 way blade is this or that....MY goodness!!!!!! I am asking if anyone has modded a 6way blade for a skid steer out of a 6 way blade for a Dozer..OMG...it's a simple task.... I understand the limitations, the differences....OMG.....I get it...I am not trying to grade a freaking interstate...... I have a dozer for grading....I am asking to simply cut a few corners and see what electronic valves others have used in this situation and thats about it!!!! it truly is THAT simple!!!! OMG..... truly simple..... why do people always make it difficult.... Damn!!!! Freaking Computers and bored ass people!!!!!
Settle down, we are just talking about equipment nothing more and nothing less. The reason why you probably won't get much help on converting a JD 350B dozer blade to work on a CTL is the majority of members on HEF haven't done it and wouldn't do it since a 6 way on a skid or CTL is useless. If this upsets you then might need to find another place on the net to post the question.
im not upset.....seesm everyone wants to talk about the why and why not....rather than discuss a mod that is on hand. It's a fab thing not a why thing. Im not worked up.... I was hoping to find fab guys that wanted to discuss fabrication....not why the world is flat.....OMG
YES...they are useless to most...but they have a small tiny window of usefulness....for those of us that have dozers that needn't doze with them...there is a purpose these blades carry or else there wouldnt be a national market for them....they are everywhere....$5-10k..... im not one of those guys....I have a purpose for it.... a unique purpose....which needn't be debated...just a fab question needing answered.....
Everywhere for sale but not in use. What is so wrong with renting one to see how it works before going to all the trouble adapting one off a dozer? I think the JD350 blade will be heavier than you think. The Grouser 1300 blade is around 1400lbs. and it's not built as heavy.
My mistake for starting all this. Good luck on your project.
It's a discussion, you didn't start anything just added your advice. Nothing wrong with that. That's what HEF is all about. My personal opinion after running skids and CTL's for over 35 years is a 6 way blade is useless on either. It's just my opinion, nothing more and nothing less.
If you post up the serial # of your Cat 259, someone with access to cat diagrams, should be able to get you a wiring diagram, which you will need for the pin outputs for the "attachment". @Nige and @heymccall I think both have access to Cat SIS as well as others. They may be able to get the harness or connector part # for a blade attachment, I think cat makes one. If you could find the model / serial # for a Cat 6 way blade attachment, that would help them find you a harness part #. As far as making the cylinders work, I would guess the output is 12v from the machine, and you'll need 12v coil/ solenoid activated valve bank for all the cylinders you want to run. Are you just doing tilt and angle out on the blade? And running up/ down and float on using the 259 arms? What you need for a valve is going to depend on how many cylinders you need to run, and what kind of GPM and PSI you're going to want to run at. And port size.
99.9% of people considering a dozer blade on a CTL would heed your advice. For what it sounds like the OP wants to do, I think a Bobcat grader type attachment would be a much better option. Maybe front gauge wheels could be fabricated for the JD dozer blade? Then he'd have a much more useful attachment.
I'm just going to throw this out, and get opinions, local JD w/dealer several locations, is really advertising new 333Ps and 335Ps with 6 way. But it not near as heavy as the old JD350 blades.
John Deere 350B tractor used the John Deere 6300 Bulldozer attachment. Per JD brochure for that attachment they made a 72" and a 90" blade weighing in at 1315lbs and 1440lbs respectively. This is a total weight. I am removing the rear of the lift frame and the boom cylinder leaving the front containing the three cylinders required for tilt and angle. The new JD attachment blades are 1550lbs plus quik tatch attachment weight. With the aforementioned short ground contact, lighter is key, without going too light. I am not discarding advice from members, however, im not questioning whether I should mod the blade to fit. I have operated dozers , loaders, excavators, etc all my life. I have a specific use which a 6 way blade on the front of the CTL will serve well. This is truly a fab post. The wiring harness part numbers and the pinouts on the machine are in my machine parts book. I was hoping someone here has modded one of these before with the intent of having a more reliable built attachment with less weight than the current bradco blades or grousers. I can swap out the factory cylinders to shorter 4x8 cylinders for angle and shorten the required length of rear mount arms some. I will factor that the boom on the machine be all the way down so not to put any more pressure ont he boom than necessary when pushing or back dragging. Summit has a few electronic actuators that will work and if I have to I can make up a harness. I was hoping someone had done this before and could spec out the actuator and harness, but it seems not.
Sounds like you have it all figured out. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
Just like a car crash you can't stop watching, I will share this. A customer/friend of mine who is a large green tractor farmer here, bought a 333G and that dozer attachment that Deere advertises with it, thinking he could use it for leveling his potato sheds and so forth. He had it for a year and neither him or his help could make it work. He made Deere take it back. Since he buys millions in tractors every year, Deere of course took it back for what he paid for it. Even with a CTL as large as a 333 he couldn't get any value out of it. If you automated the blade with 2D it works to some degree. Although according to some I spoke with at RDO who put Topcon 3D on my grader attachment, you have to go super slow with it, but it does work then. This might, if you were objective at all about this, might tell you how difficult it is, that even automated, a machine control computer has a hard time making something level with one of these. I am sure a person with all your years of operating heavy equipment can make it work, but for the rest of the operating world it appears rather difficult. Here is the real point. Your going to have a hard time finding someone who has made a 6 way out of an old dozer to fit on a CTL. The reason is you can buy these used anywhere, it is not worth fabing one, it simply isn't. If your here asking for fab assistance, I really doubt your going to make one better than the OEM's that already build them. Your rationale is a struggle, you want to make it more HD for a machine that is not even close to strong enough to challenge one commercially made. Yet here we are.
Reminds me of an old boss of mine from many years back. "I have my opinion. Don't confuse me with the facts."
im not trying to make anything more "HD"... when more accurately, what I am discussing is less "HD". IM not using an old 6 way dozer blade because its "HD", rather it will be lighter and less HD than newly manufactured attachments. im using it because whether it is one I fab or a new one, the very limited use for this attachment requires the least amount of investment. With a negative ROI including TVM, it is much more considerate to fab one from what is already laying around. If I want final grade, I will get on the dozer which is built for final grade and do so. There seems to be an assumption or two of which neither is correct. This is and will not be a final grade machine nor level machine attachment. amusing as well one assumes its opinionated and not based on facts. The only fact established is that someone assumes it is being modded for something other than what it actually is. So, ironically your tort is more accurate to the source. The use, since no-one has asked yet everyone suggests they know better, is to use the 25 degree angle and a degree or two of tilt on the shoulder of the loose substrate roads in the winter to keep the crown formed and allow for proper drainage all while backing with the boom in float using bucket to apply light down pressure when necessary so not to disrupt side ditches. This has been done for centuries using tractors and horse drawn implements, and for at least the most recent 10 years using my neighbors smaller CTL with a heavier 450 6 way blade assembly which someone else cut and mounted on a quick attach plate. He has since moved and I no longer have access to his so therefor I am in the process of building, an inexpensive, yet functional 6 way blade for the very same reason. Just to make sure those presumptuous members whom declare im unwilling to listen to their voice of reason hears, I repeat, this will not be used for grading purposes, final grade etc....it is. afunctional proven tool in a very limited circumstance which benefits greatly from the ability of having a 6 way blade in float or slightly applying down pressure through the roll of the bucket while in reverse. No other reason...none.... If I want to and push dirt rock or whatever, they make equipment for that which will push and not damage boom connections or others while using equipment NOT meant to push.
Your neighbor had a smaller CTL with a blade off a much bigger JD450? What CTL and surely you have pics. of it? Is the ground frozen and have snow on it when you want to use the 6 way blade? From what I'm picturing, I may be wrong, but think you could do what you want pretty easily with just a bucket. Seems like you're trying to speed up what you would normally use a dozer for. Good luck with your build, hope it works for you. I still can't see how a blade off an actual dozer is lighter than a CTL blade.
No, you will not do with a bucket what he's been doing with a blade. There isn't much to those blades off of these old Deere crawlers, especially the 350. He's also removing the heavier part of it, the c-frame.
I'd need to see pics. of what he's wanting to do. There's no C frame on the CTL blades either and they don't look as heavy built. I hope it works for him. Did some looking the 6300 blade is hyd. lift only and manual tilt and angle. That could explain the lighter weight. The 6305 blade is all hydraulic.
the 6300 is lighter with manual tilt/angle and the all hydraulic is 1690 lbs. total weight. Remove the two larger rear boom cylinders, as well as the majority of the C frame, then it is lighter than the CAT, JD, and Grouser 1300 manufactured blades. Shimmy, thank goodness SOMEONE understands what I am doing. I have reread my post over and over to ensure I am saying what I thought I was. I am not saying it is the best way to go about doing it, however, it does seem to be the most cost effective way with the least amount of time invested. I spec'd the valve from a Grouser 1300 blade and it actually will hook up to the CTL 14 pin connector as well. I am considering replacing the factory cylinders with two shorter cylinders which I can turn at a bit more angle and shorten the distance from blade to mount.
What you’re wanting to do, I do with my Curtis 10’ snowplow fabbed to my backhoe bucket all year. I plow snow, wing snow and dress my drainage all year. It doesn’t really dig but it will move loose material. I welded a 2” pipe to the cutting edge, to actually keep it from cutting. I do use the hoe in the back for my tilt. I plan on doing the same set up, for my skid but with a QA plate. My plow must weigh 900 pounds, maybe more. Its even more valuable because I need to put fabric down on certain parts of my driveway and when the frost pulls out, I am left with grey stone dust mud and I can back drag with it to smooth it out and keep it out of my drainage.
....and did you keep the plows trip mechanism intact ?
I did but have a way to block it as it’s a whole plow tilt. Being as I was never blessed with much asphalt in my life, for personal plows, I always prefer a blade tilt and not a cut edge trip. I remember as a kid, peppering my mothers new car, with frozen gravel ONE TIME, with a Fisher plow.
Have you priced the valve/harness for a cat 6way CTL blade? You could also try Blue Diamond Attachments. They are very good to deal with and they offer a 6way blade so you could just call down and ask for price an availability of a valve and harness. You will be making hoses and such yourself to fit application.