Learned a good lesson. Working in the winter with mild temperatures and a lot of rain makes it easy to get a lot of muck up in the tracks. Normally, it's no a big problem other than it's messy. However, when the temperature dropped below freezing one night, we were shocked to find the machine tracks completely frozen. The machine would not even wiggle. At first I thought something was broken! It took a couple of hours to hammer and chisel out all the frozen muck and get the machine moving again. So know we know not to leave a lot of muck in the under carriage in freezing temperatures! Anyone have good ideas on how to remove the frozen muck without torching off the paint or something?
Do you have access to a pressure washer with steam? I’ve done that in the past with fair results. Once it’s clean track around a bit to shake other stuff loose then maybe another quick bath and some air to dry it out.
Been there, done that. I used a diesel Radiant heater with a gas generator to run the heater. Worked great. Learned our lesson though.
It would be too much time to pressure wash at the end of the day at the job site, although I would shovel as much of the muck out as I could if I knew the temperatures were going to drop much below freezing. I almost bought a diesel/kerosene heater to keep warm on the job site, and to thaw things out if needed and melt snow and ice. I was too worried though that the kerosene heater wouldn't run well on diesel, and make too much noise and stink even outside. I was also confused if diesel at the gas station (which I put in my work trucks and transfer tank for the excavator and loader) is the same as diesel 1 or 2.
I have a Landa radiant heater, runs on 1 or 2 diesel. Great heater.
Pays in spades to carry a Sharpshooter shovel and clean the muck end of day EVERY Day.
Step 1 is shovel the tracks out, especially in the winter. I have a 100,000 btu kerosene heater. Adjust the air screw just a tad and it drinks #2 diesel just fine of the red or blue variety whichever is handy. Set it about 6ft from the track so it disperses heat good clear across it, cover the machine with a tarp and then stand around cussing yourself for about an hour. Move it to the other side and shovel the first one out. Bout 3 hours later you are cold, wet, muddy and ready to go to work. You only do it once and you remember to clean your tracks. John
Shoveling off tracks in the winter is a must and I hate doing it, but show up the next day not being able to work because the undercarriage is frozen is worse than shoveling the tracks out. There was a guy I knew that would carry a hose in his truck that went over his exhaust pipe of a truck or the machine and he would place it over the exhaust and exit it onto the frozen undercarriage to defrost the frozen mud.....
Three options, clean them off and park on dry ground, thaw them in the morning, or if this is the first time you've run into this, then you could probably cover the tracks with tarps held down reasonably tight and the mud would still be mud in the morning. Weather forecasts are pretty accurate these days so you wouldn't have to do it often, I'd bet that would work fine for the rare freeze.
Most torpedo heaters are multi-fuel and will burn diesel and if running right don't have much odor at all except when first starting or shutting off. A propane torpedo heater that doesn't use any electricity is another option as is a tiger torch (weed burner) stuck in a length of pipe. The biggest thing to be aware off is not get the heater too close and try to thaw it out in 10 minutes. Put a tarp over it and go have breakfast or something while it thaws out. Some people park tracked machines on a couple boards so they don't freeze to the ground. I got my 931B crawler loader with backhoe stuck and it froze overnight. Had to wait a few days for the gravel pit to bring over a D5N to pull it out. It barely got it out because the ground was frozen about 4 inches but had wet, soft loam underneath. Tracks on the loader were completely frozen and packed with frozen mud but lifted the back of the machine up with the hoe and got it out. Went back out a few days later on the weekend with a huge tarp, a 70,000 BTU torpedo heater and generator and it took over 9 hours to thaw it out enough to get the tracks to start moving. A few more hours would have been better but it was already dark and having to come back the next day would have wasted the whole time getting it thawed to the point it was.
Well the torpedo heating/melting/waiting doesn't seem to be the way to go until the very last resort. It seems the shovel method is the best. We have four machines on site, so it isn't just dealing with one machine. We had no issues with the TB153fr but that machine didn't get too muddy. The TB016 is parked in the back and not being really used for this part of the job. We use the Toro Dingo the most, just to run around quickly with a light footprint to move gravel and wall block around (we are building retainer walls all around the new construction). The Toro Dingo did freeze up to, but got unstuck faster. This begs the following questions: 1. How cold does it need to go down to at night or during the day to really freeze the muck completely. I believe it went down to around 22 degrees or so. 30 degrees at night is no problem. 2. What type of soil would likely hold the most water content which might make the muck more of a concern. 3. Which part of the tracks that freeze really stop it from moving? It seems like the space around the TL130 sprocket is not so good and that is where it gets the worse. Are other machines better or worse?
I think they are all CTLs are bad for that. Your right the best way is to not allow it happen in the first place. Loam soil seems to be the worst in my opinion, Temps in the low teens and of course colder will make it hard enough that you have to thaw it out to get it to move. I believe it is caused by the sprocket freezing to the track frame. I have not seen an issue with the tracks freezing to the ground. My machines seem to be able to break free from that, but when the sprocket is packed it wont move.
I agree with KSSS loamy topsoil is the worst. Especially on a site that a been churned up pretty good so it's got some sticks, some gravel and things mixed in along with being really wet. 30 degrees isn't bad to freeze up but I don't trust the weathermen enough to positively predict the difference between 22 and froze solid, or 30 and a little crunchy but workable. I have a tl130 as well and it's bad to freeze up around the bottom side of the sprocket, where it sheds mud down onto the track frame. Clear that out and you'll generally be just fine. I'm fond of a 4" trench spade to clean tracks with. Good luck and stay warm John
Yeah the job site has straw all around for erosion control measures. So that is in the muck too. Does anyone think moving the tracks forward and back to break up the frozen muck do damage to the machine? My sprockets and tracks are pretty new.
I doubt you will cause any problems. If the machine doesn't like it, it will go over relief before it hurts anything. Just make sure the machine is up to operating temp before trying to move it. I usually will lift the loader arms off the ground and tilt the bucket up toward the cab and keep it tilting so the machine starts going over relief. That will heat up the hyd. oil.
Wet loam is the worst when it freezes but clay is bad too. Of course shovel out what you can before it freezes but it can be almost impossible to get everything out. A few degree's below freezing is all it takes. I think it could be hard on components trying to get frozen tracks moving. When my Cat was froze the left side was the worst. I had new steering clutches and was worried I might damage them trying to get the tracks loose. I put it in gear at idle and revved it up a little in forward then slowed back to idle and a little in reverse. It would only move a little each time and I wasn't going to give her full throttle. I played with it for about 20-25 minutes and finally got it where the sprocket could make a full revolution. Then a few partly thawed chunks from behind the sprocket fell out. This was after having a tarp and heater on it for about 9 hours. Thankfully some more knowledgeable folks on here said I shouldn't have hurt my steering clutches. I think if there's a risk of freezing mud avoid it at all costs or expect to spend a lot time unthawing. You can't just take a Tiger torch to it and thaw it out. I always lift the tracks with the bucket before trying to move in the cold.
CTL's are hydraulic driven. If the drive motor cant turn it will go over relief.
What if the relief malfunctions, is there a reduction gear box or other components that could be damaged? Running against relief isn't the best thing to do. A hydraulic oil heater is a better option for warming the oil if you have power.
It really isn't practical to put a hyd heater on in the field. That is the purpose of the relief valve, could it fail? Anything can fail. Its not likely.
You already have a generator. Warm oil before starting is the best. If it's cold enough you have to plug the machine in to start it's another plug in like a block heater but I believe is half the watts so it doesn't cook the oil.
I worked for a contractor when I was young. If the operators didn't clean the track frames every day after work they were unemployed the next day. The owner of the company wouldn't tolerate that.
Running against relief is the by the book way to get the hydraulics warmed up after an appropriate idle period of course A hyd tank heater isnt a bad idea i have never seen one fitted and doubt that there ever would be on mini equipment could see one in the big metal tank of a loader but they work just fine without one down to -30f so not much need Best way to keep from freezing up is to clean the tracks whenever its cool out always been that way a small flat shovel prybar and sometimes a hook for the sprocket 15 mins of cleaning and your good to go A torpedo heater or two is essential shop equipment to solve all sorts of cold weather issues with a small generator or inverter in the pickup yes they will run very well on off road fuel same as the equipment kerosene smells a little less inside but not really worth the cost or hassle of getting it
back in january i had a customer throw a track off and parked the machine for 2 days before he called. of course the temp dropped to down around 0F over night. now i'm fighting a stiff ass track, and frozen clay packed in the track frames. i wasnt a happy camper that morning.
I bet the asstax on that job was high!
about double the time it normally takes me to get a track back on. at least the machine was on pavement so i had a good level spot to work.
My skid steer is 43 HP and has an optional hyd. oil heater. Running against the relief valve is very localized and shouldn't be done for more than 3 seconds. Hydraulic oil for cold temperatures is another option.
The old way was to park on timber, after digging the worst of the mud out of the undercarriage. Forcing frozen tracks to turn, especially rubber ones, just shortens the life of everything. Even if the relief blows, it still shocks the finals to an extent.
Yep, cleaning and checking the machine at the end of the day, maybe even ending the day a half hour early to spend more time cleaning. a skirt of tarps around my mini, diesel heater stuffed under the skirt and went for coffee, came back in an hour and a half and everything was melted and thawed.
Dozer & Excavator undercarriages were always cleaned at the end of the day, then parked on old tires to keep the tracks from freezing to the ground. PITA, but it always paid off, especially if it would be a while before working again. Ed
True enough, I used to park my little dozer on a brushpile to keep the tracks from sticking, it might be sitting for months before moving.