Evidently the realization Millennials do not want to work very hard has shown its ugly head in the trucking industry. ABC is running a news story on the lack of and disappearance of adequate drivers numbers. We as the remnants of the Boomers are getting old, those following us are college grads with no need of sitting behind a wheel or pushing broom/shovel/machine controls. Entering a bad period of time I am afraid.
This is true, but it will be like ripping a bandaid off. It will hurt for a while, but in the end, those like me ( millennial by age) will come out on top. This will create a high demand and create a competition among employers to snatch up the best workers they can. Shop managers are going to fight for the best mechanics, Supers are going to compete for the best operators and laborers, make it worth while to change employers or even careers. It is actually already starting to happen to a point. A friend I used to do some side work for just shut the doors to his flat work business and gave up, he couldn't get anyone hired and was snowed under with work. Now he is making the same money as a foreman with another company that is doing great and willing to pay for experience.
Will only last until you are gone. The numbers continue to decrease over time and the demand overwhelms then all dries up.
I curious, too, as to where things are heading. Electronic log books, licensing requirements, emission requirements, etc are not making things any easier on the industry. And, driverless vehicles and some cities wanting to ban internal combustion vehicles from inside their borders... And traffic congestion isn't making it any easier to get kids moved! Darryl
Not getting a draw for new employees from all that. I wonder if the powers that be are not pushing freight back to the rails this way? Trying to preserve something that refuses to expand as rail systems continue to shut corridors.
I would love to go trucking. I'm just not willing to take a 50% pay cut and be away from home weeks on end. The trucking industry brought this on themselves with the mega company wages being so far down the toilet that the only people that do it are the dreggs of society. Go to a truckstop sometime. Look at all the **** bottles and garbage laying around there. No pride in the job.
thats why all this auto drive and AI are taking front row to development..eliminate people from doing the job...all the toll booths are pretty much gone from NY roads, so all those toll collectors will be phased out, and this will be the trend..trucks and cars that drive themselves....fast food places will be all automated, maybe 1 person to restock the machines that make your food...more and more businesses are getting away from having a human work, and in the end money will be saved, production will go up and we will live in a society minus any social skills between people...
And in the end no one has enough money to afford to do anything, buy anything or go anywhere.
It all helps make the aging process easier to bear. I remember my dad complaining that the "new" drivers can't even shift both sticks. That was in the late 50s or early 60s.
Rule of thumb right now is one out of five new hires for driving truck are going to make it. Most have a bad driving record anyway. The community college here {WWCC} has a driving school and they train them at the port where I work. I see them driving around all day by our shop {jerking, bucking and grinding there way down the street} Gayle the other mechanic and I call them New Croppers. Every fall and spring the college unleashes a new crop of truck drivers. The company use to ask me to road test new drivers-----------six years ago I told them I lost my crash helmet so I'm not able to do it anymore. Truck Shop
The driving situation is just the opposite here in Charleston.. the Ports are booming & hiway construction is going crazy & ANYONE that can breathe is signed up as a "driver".. The roads are SO dangerous its scary. NO turn signals changing lanes pulling a tandem trailer.. 75-80 thru construction zones in a 60.. its sick.. Riding on/across the yellow line for miles.. & WHEN traffic gets jammed up, they wait until you could land a plane between them & the next vehicle before they let off the clutch.. Get about 10-20 trucks doing THAT & traffic backs up QUICK.. & ONLY about 10% of the trailers coming out of the Ports have WORKING turn signals & brake lites.. Isnt it the drivers responsibility to check that crap??
There are niches in trucking that avoid the things you mention. My guys all made damn good money and other than an occasional big project they seldom spent more than 10 days out. It was usually out a couple nights, back home and do it again next week. Trucking in general has a bad name and it's the fault of the industry. I have seen pay come up, rigs are in better shape but due to a lack of a$$es for the seats you're always gonna have some less than savory characters behind the wheel. I seldom even see a truckstop anymore. When I HAVE to go in I do what I gotta do and get the hell out before I get a bumper tore off or backed into. Buncha no drivin booger eatin morons. If I ever had a school I'd have the lowest graduation percentage there is, but I'd have people beating my door down for my drivers! Move down here and I'll teach you the ways of heavy haul.....a sharp experienced heavy haul driver or lowboy hand can all but demand a good wage and pick from several good companies. I get offers all the time.
That is true. I was speaking in general earlier as there are a lot more wheel holders than guys in the niche markets it seems. I grew up in a family of loggers so I'm pretty familiar with trucking and logging. Both my parents steered me away from it not long after I started talking about getting into it. Told me I should either get a trade or degree first and then go driving if I still wanted to afterwards. I still miss riding in the truck and being up in the mountains.
Trades are suffering too. Less and less people interested in going into the trades. Why get dirty when you can sit at a desk staring at a computer and make more money.
We call them Truck Herders round here. Manage to get from point A to B but have issues as the old Roadway Drivers did as to the Big R on the shifter, they all thought it was for Roadway and never used it!! Still remember the newbies on Pig Iron Express triple sets leaving SLC, would make the first ramp from Redwood Rd to I-80 and dump the rear unit. Now the giddyups are dragging 102 wide 53 footers down city streets and do not understand cannot make tight corners eating cars, yards and signage. Newbie with dump truck service here raised his bed to release his load, did not start low and build up, tailgate release failed with all the weight as well off teeter angle he was sitting at, bed went up, load bridged and truck laid over, first load last day.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. It hurts for now, but it can only get so low before companies get competitive and are willing to pay what is asked to get a good hand in the skilled trades. Supply and demand, less supply, charge more for the product. I remember when my dad was making bank as a mechanic and getting offers to go to numerous different shops around the area back in the early 90's. Now the shops are willing to hire anyone with a universal socket and a pulse. Trucking is doing alright in my area, at least short haul. The city I work for can't keep enough laborers on hand. You start here and they buy you a nice pair of work boots, they train you for CDL and they pay to get your license with tank and airbrake. These guys all start and work till they have a CDL then ditch and go drive for swift or some other company.
Y'all know what swift stands for? So What I'm Fu$kin Tryin Or backwards Two Fags In a White Semi not trying to hijack, seeing you mention swift made me literally LOL. I completely agree with what you say. Supply and demand. Even as good as ** pays and takes care of their guys we always struggle to find good people.
See What I ****ed up Today
I forgot about that one. There's so much you can do with that and the steering wheel holders they employ!
What do get with 365 SWIFT drivers? 1 year of experience. Don't get me started on OTR trucking, Mega's, CDL mills...... It's like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, it feels really good when you stop.
Once upon a time the real OTR drivers and or owner operators were respected. But when drivers dress like a fool wearing ear/nose rings, tee shirts covered in every stupid car or motorcycle theme plus wife beater pants skin head hair cut with go-tee untied shoes sporting a gut with tattoos up and down their arms what do we expect from that- a low rent. The other stupid popular thing is wearing a bright orange or safety yellow vest 24 hours a day-I can see that in construction it's needed in some areas but not setting in the seat. My company past a dress policy this last summer-their representing our company.
Rite on Truck Shop ! Like Momma said Dress well & put your best foot forward for the occasion ... Even when yanking out a green equipment operator ... LOL http://www.heavytruckforums.com/showthread.php?263-Some-Holmes-750-action&p=4024&viewfull=1#post4024
These rigs in this video are from the era I'm taking about. I started out driving a wore out Consolidated Freight 67 Freightliner pulling wiggle wagons. I was embarrassed about the company I was working for but I had to start somewhere. I remember one old driver told me that if I could drive that junk I could drive anything. In those day's the owner of the truck could sign off on a consent form and you could take your written test and you had your semi license. Some of these C.O.E. Kenworths remind me of the one I drove running south from Ellensburg to L.A. to Seattle once a week hauling produce to Lucky and Safeway. Believe it or not I miss those day's ran across alot of real good drivers. Truck Shop
[QUOTE="td25c, post: 717396, member: 8842 Like Momma said Dress well & put your best foot forward for the occasion ... [/QUOTE] Had a young feller working for me and needed to borrow a little cash to buy a house trailer & get all the utilities hooked up at the home site . Asked me what to do ??? Ok , no problem . First thing is you get a clean shave off the face , loose the ear ring & pull up your pants . We will meet with the loan officer in the morning and He's pretty " Old School " . Clean up & look like a Man when ya go in to a business deal ! He cleaned up & I co signed the note & we went back to work . Even paid it off on time , was proud of him
It's a brave new world we're in, demand is touching the supply curve but wages haven't reflected that, at least in my area. Just my view on the situation - in the future there will be a demand for folks who know how to get projects done with their hands and their knowledge that can only come with experience, as the masses run towards computers and office cubicles. It's all great and wonderful that we might one day have self driving cars and trucks but how will that technology fix your broken sewer line or grade your new homesite without a GPS plan? Probability is that one day that technology will be available but it's a long time off. In the mean time the ones that know how to get projects done with their minds and hands will be in demand. We all need to understand where technology is going and plan accordingly.
As being part of this younger generation i am not shocked the demand for people willing to work a trade is so high and only getting higher. my entire generation was told from day one including myself was told go to college don't be stupid get an office job i had more than one teacher in high school tell me i would amount to spit without a degree. all that has accomplished is that this generation is under the belief that working in a trade and sweating is below them. so like was said earlier in this thread i see opportunity for myself and it proved true again this week when a buddy of mine called to tell me he just demoed the floor on a brand new house and he needs my big hammer to cut the pad down because the pad company and the concrete company had missed finish floor by over three feet. Technology is great until no one is paying attention in my experience i can be a lot more efficient using a GPS plan but that doesn't help me if i don't know how to move dirt correctly the first time. self driving trucks are great till they need to back into a dock and there is not a robot made that can change a blowout on the side of the interstate. the labor problems will get far worse until wages come up to reflect the demand and people figure out a trade job can pay as good or better than a run of the mill bachelors degree
Exactly what I was told by a few of my teachers. My shop teachers I think got into a bit of trouble with the school board for pushing the trades so heavily as a viable career choice. All my teachers wanted me to go to law school. My response was always "why would I put myself 6 figures in debt and spend half my life paying it off when I can wrench in the oilpatch for $40/hr and my only upfront cost is $4k in tools?" Besides that I hate being in an office.
In my time it was Lincoln tech and Wyoming tech. "Recruiting " I worked with many of these "graduates" ... I was not impressed. Most couldn't read schematics, had no practical skills, just one hot mess after another. Yeah, in the 90's I worked for truck shops and dealers across Chicago land . Both flat rate and hourly. I had this magical thing called disposes income. A lot of it. Then something happened . A tidal wave of immigrants buying Volvos and running them into the ground. Don't fix the broken spring, just replace the u joint. Whatdya mean I need brakes, I still have lining? You show them less than a 32 and they say , see . Lots of brake left. The things they would refuse to fix, but insist on a/c repair or something non-critical. Most of my work reports looked like legal disclaimers. I'd have 2 lines describing the repair and 4 pages describing the faults they were made aware of and refused. No idea how they passed a roadside inspection.
Really hope the wages start reflecting the demand. My generation was fed a big lie. I remember teachers making fun of kids that wanted to get into a trade. The kids that went to vocational classes were just considered lost cause. The joke is on the kids that went and got a completely useless degree. The world only needs so many English professors. When I dropped outta high some of the teachers about had a heart attack. I got my ged and graduated tech school when I was supposed to be graduating high school. Funny that I now make more then those uppity teachers. And don't have the debt that the uppity kids have. I'm still a little bitter at some of my teachers.
I think the thing that really enraged a lot of my teachers was the fact I graduated with the top grades in my grad class and still chose to be a "dumb mechanic". At the end of the day, grades mean nothing. I'm still a firm believer that if you follow your passion, you will always do well. I've wanted to wrench since I was 8.
Same here. Graduated high school, started college mostly to keep mom off my ***. Got into my second year and felt like I was wasting my time and mom's money. Had a talk with dad and he basically said f$&k it then. So I quit. Mom had a coronary. My sister went to college, 5 years at TU. I KNOW what that costs as my daughter goes there. I started turning wrenches and a couple years into it I started the trucking company. I always made good money, hauling, wrenching, buying/selling, consulting you name it. Still do. I think it's gotten so bad in schools with indoctrination as it goes all the way back to the lower elementary grades now. I constantly challenge that crap with my kids and their schools and Oklahoma is about as conservative as you can get! With my girls higher education makes more sense. With my boys I do believe they will be in a trade of some sort. Whether I quit my job and start a company, encourage them to attend tech school and with my help and experience perhaps they will be really sharp techs, operators or whatever they choose to persue. I do like the looks from some of the other TU parents when they ask what I do and how I'm able to send my daughter to school there. She saw me work hard for what they have and she did her share to go to an excellent school. When she was talking about school and we weren't sure of scholarships etc I told her and the wife in no uncertain terms. NO LOANS. Period. Not negotiable. That's the single biggest mistake students make. Don't even get me started on teaching the oldest how to budget and that she CAN live without makeup wipes, Starbucks and the like. Face palm....haha
How can a teacher recommend anything but college when most of them have never had a non-education related job in their life. They have no clue how the real world operates.
I grew up very Interestingly in the fact mom was a teacher and dad owned an excavating company. my mom quit teaching in the mid 90s because they took curriculum control from the teachers. now the strange thing was mom was the one that said i would waste my time in college just keep working thats the only person i know with a masters degree that has said college is a waste. but my jr. year of high school proved to me i would be ok when my english teacher said to me if you dont go to college you will just be a poor ditch digger your whole life. as you can imagine that was one of the funniest statements i have ever heard and i got a nice trip to the vice principals office for correcting her in front of the entire class that my dad and grandpa were both poor ditch diggers and have made far superior money than she ever will. it seems today no one is taught simple economics of supply and demand and the demand is getting higher and supply is shorter. the market will work itself out eventually but its going to be a big whole to fill with all the old guys that are getting out
Junkyard, if you can teach your daughter to live without those luxuries send me your lesson plan. I'm still working on that with the wife. Lol. She actually does pretty well. Student loans are a killer for sure. Paid mine off a few years ago and navient sent me an email asking how I did it and asked me to share my story. Guess it's rare to pay student loans off before your 25. Who knew? What kills me is the people who take out a bunch of loans, only to drop out within three semesters. If the high school counselors can't do a better job of helping students with plans after high school, they need to find new careers. Starbucks puts me in a bad mood. 5 bucks for a cup of coffee. Ridiculous.
Yeah but the fru-fru drinks are purdy good.
I always look at the term {supply and demand} as backwards.-------------------One thing missing from this thread and the most important. Self Respect and realistic Goals. It's something that has been left out of the lives of young people. And just maybe it started at home. My last 2 cents Truck Shop
[QUOTE="AzIron, post: 717524, member: 56910 it seems today no one is taught simple economics of supply and demand and the demand is getting higher and supply is shorter. the market will work itself out eventually but its going to be a big whole to fill with all the old guys that are getting out[/QUOTE] Schools can not teach economics. They can not even control their own budget in most cases. It amazes me what folks buy on credit because the payment is "small". No concept of what it really costs at the end of the day. We bought our used 5th wheel camper a year ago from a private party that were picking up their new one. $56,000 for the new one. They wanted $3,000 for there smaller 25 ft 1999 model old one that was very clean. They thought a new big one would be nice when they retire. The fellows wife (a teacher) commented that the payments were not bad and it would be paid for by the time they retire in 18 years. Do they really expect it to be still new then? I was taught if you want something, save the money and get it. A coffee shop acquaintance that is a state employed phycologist mentioned the other day that he wished his school debt was paid off. I asked him why he still had school debt. He said between the car(Cadillac) payment, his new truck payment, the house payment, and the cabin payment, he had no money for nothing but interest on his student loans. Oh, did I mention he is currently 64 and looking at having to work until at least 72 if he buys nothing more.
I don't get the impulsive nature of people's purchase decisions. I see it all the time. My sister is a prime example. I won't go into detail lol. It seems as though NOBODY teaches their children how to save, budget etc. I've had many a convo with the college daughter and in a nutshell they go like this.... Her: Can I, I Need blah blah Me: Is it necessary to obtain your desired grades and degree......? Her: Ok, nevermind. My old man throws nickels around like manhole covers. He's super frugal. To the point of annoyance even. I didn't realize growing up there was a lesson in that. I should have paid closer attention and I wish he would have pounded that into my head. I made several poor financial decisions. Funny thing is when I went to him for help, even though I was already in my 20's and KNEW better, he was very cool about it. He's always been cool with helping. That's a humbling experience to be on your own almost 10 years and have to mope into the old man's house and ask for help. I felt like I was about 6" tall and not worth the powder to blow my *** up. The good thing about that experience is I can help my children or some other person in need of guidance and relate the experience from both ends. Dead broke livin on scraps and comfortable enough to put a kid into a very good college. Add to that growing a business with nothin and I've got some good stories and war wounds. Not unlike many others on here. I'm sure my kids sit there while I ramble on and tune me out. Sometimes I really get on the older girls about that stuff. However.....I feel confident that someday they'll look back and go, "you know what? The old man was right. Delivery sucked but he knew what he was talkin about"
Junkyard , good part of the story is after a few scrapes & bumps through life's journey we age a little & turn in to " The Old Man " . And the cycle continues ....
Yes sir, I feel myself morphing into him although I'm a little more crass like his old man.
"Its only a payment!" I hate debt and I avoid it like the plague (apart from mortgage or vehicle payments. If you can do cash on that, kudos to you!). If I don't have the cash in the bank, I don't buy it.
I love the phrases that I learn here. My parents taught me to scrimp and save, too. I don't know how best to pass it on. Be a good example mostly, I guess.
Couldn't agree more! I worked with a guy for a couple years, good friend of mine even now. Always had a new truck, made the same money as me at the dealer. Used to rag on my wore out hand me down tool boxes, wore out truck with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, little trailer house (sitting on land with a decent shop). Always said, Cmon P.J. its only a payment! why don't you get ya a nicer truck? Why don't ya get ya a nicer toolbox? Why don't ya build a bigger house? Now we have both left that dealer and time gets hard he's hurtin to make those payments on all his nice stuff while the only payments I've got is the wifes car and the house which ain't much. I also took out a loan for "college". College for me was a program like a mix between college and trade school. Accredited associates degree and factory certifications after 2 years. I had the money to pay cash but wanted to build credit, so I shoved the money into an account and never touched it till the loan payments started rolling in. The biggest problem in this day in age is that kids are coddled too much. I got lucky, and used to cuss my folks for it at the time, but they let me dig my own holes and let me climb out of them and I'm grateful for it now. I see too many my age that go out and party and blow it all and can't pay rent so they move mack in with mommy and daddy. Was never an option for me, nor would I have taken the option if available, I'd rather live under a bridge that become a burden back with my folks.
Have several recent family additions in the Millennial group that have come to 'Adulthood' where the video gaming and incessant need to be in a selfie on FB is all they seem to be able to do. One is growing into her life with a Oops baby from a illegal alien she was 'In Love With' but he did not stick around after she showed a belly bump. One grand nephew, her Dad was a loss, drug head and finally OD'd himself, she is his daughter that had the baby she now has to find the money to support. Her mother is a piece of work, gets tired of working or gets in trouble falls back and starts begging for money for cigarettes or "Gas" money for cars she cannot keep licensed or insured and loses to the imaginative finance companies selling them to her while she tries to find easy money by NOT working. She has found that 2% interest PER MONTH is not very sensible when she barely makes the interest payment on used cars. I was one of those that bought ever bigger tools chests, had nicer trucks even the two or three extra costs motorcycles in the day but we got paid pretty well years ago. Then came the imaginative book keepers in the late 70's early 80's that were pressured by bosses or companies on how to cut expenses so they could make more on the backs of those that made their fleet shops work or the dealerships profitable, we were cut on and as such began the process of moving from shop to shop to gain income levels that never seemed to arrive. My tools are mostly obsoleted by time and progress, I keep them as I do to attend the old crap I can still afford to own and know how to work on. I feel for the kids having to make it today as they stand little to no chance of making it any more today than 25 years ago when I stepped out of the shops.
There are a few places coming around to being competitive. The last dealer I left, I was one of four in the same month, all to municipalities as fleet/equipment mechanics. The pay wasn't alot better but we all have a good retirement to work towards now and less stress than the dealer. If you look around the automotive side of dealers, there is a mass exodus like there was back in the mid 80's. They finally got it together and became the place to work by the mid 90's when my dad was doing the best. It's all a cycle, it can only go so far one direction before it has to go back the other way.
What kind of dealers are you referring to? Just curious about the state of the industry and all.
I was at ford dealers till I started for the city I work for now, about 10 years worth. My old man has been at Ford dealers since the late 70's and is still working at them.
Dealers here as well municipalities cannot get and retain workers of any kind. Laborers get CDL they are gone, mechanics get fed up with no parts make it work for now attitudes at city service garages or the cut rate flat rates issued by dealers and many have given up as I did. Those that did stick around tended to get the gravy train work while the new hires the trash no pay jobs leading to ever more migrations in and around the industry. Two good friends that went thru trade school with myself are now staring at retirement at just past 60 as the bodies cannot take the abuse any longer and the inability to beat time drives pay further and further into the dirt. Yes is cyclical but the current cycle is not good and the next years do not hold much positive for many. Personally it would be great to gain overtime to try and keep up but the way the dealers Pro-Rate OT against chargeable hours recovered is hardly worth the added effort and time lost from home and family.
Very similar story Knepp . Went though High school in the 80's . My saving grace was an English Literature teacher ........ After the second day in class she was hip that I had no interest in what they were layin down . MRS Cameron pulled me aside one day after class & said ............ " Hey 25 , my husband farms about 800 acres and is going to need some help ". " You interested working after school & weekends ? " Hell yes ! Um sorry MRS Cameron .... I mean .... Would really enjoy that job . Picked up more education & practical skills from the farmer then I would have anywhere else . Plus was getting paid for it .
Best to do both if you can Get as good an education as you can so you can read prose and poetry and appreciate beauty and write things people want to read Also learn how to work and do a good job. Remember that many of the founding fathers had profitable farms or other industries as well as being able to found a country that worked pretty well as long as people had morals and stave off an invasion as well as do things like write two different letters with two different hands in two different languages at the same time. And they did not have electric lights or computers or central heat and they did not live as long as we do, except a few of them did.
Not to much has changed over the years . Other then electricity , computers and central heat . Imagine the Founding Fathers would really like the First Lady . Got a great look about her and can speak 6 different languages . Pretty impressive ! Heck , I'm still working on English . LOL
Get the right language thrown at you and even getting told off can be sexy.
I prefer French in those scenarios
Poor old Bill could not even look her in the eye while shaking hands . First Lady has Class .
I am a retired electrician, before I got in the trade, I drove for Wyerhaeuser both highway and off highway trucks. I took a $2.25 / hour cut in pay to go into my apprenticeship 34 years later I retired with a very good pension having worked in heavy construction all those years. By chance I stumbled into a job hauling logs, I called it my hobby job. While I had a great time working, With all the greasing, minor repairs to the truck each night, I was averaging around $10 per hour. Now the fellow I was hauling for wasn't making much more than that. I was getting the standard 33% of the load. He was great to work for, I told him I was going to be his slowest driver and he had no issue with it. I drove for two years, finally got tired of Puget Sound traffic and quit. But in observation, driving a truck today sucks. Too many cars, not enough pavement. It doesn't matter if drivers pay attention or not, still too many people on the road and the roads will never get any better. If we build bigger, people and cars will fill them up. I feel sorry for the folks trying to drive and make a living, too many driver and small owners are hostage to corporations who care less about the people who support them. Vent, vent, vent.....