I got same problem on my loader to .. 2500 + hours on machines .. then the compressor locks up .. its the vane pump that doesn't like dirt and heat .. and then its John deere parts are not aftermarket prices YET ... they recommend replacing coils, hoses, pump , filter ... everything to get it back to clean again .. you can just replace the pump it will lock up too in 5 hrs? or so .. has anybody found a cheaper cure for what I call robbery ... oh and the labor to dig in to replacing all of this is a lot its buried deep .. a 40$ hose should not be $700 .. Geez .. help!
Can you break that down a bit further into layman's language? Seems you are relaying your air conditioning compressor is locking up, or ceasing to turn? Vane pump? Though can't say for absolute certain, this should be an axial piston unit. Dirty coils definitely can increase head pressure until the force required to rotate the compressor exceeds the drive belt's ability to do this job. First thing you want to do it clean those coils till bright and shiny. Then start troubleshooting the system. You may have other problems but very easy to get into a "rabbit hole" so start with the basics.
it is a vane pump ... it is locking up ... the vanes are not sliding like they should from burnt oils in the system .. the coils have headers the dirt is on the inside from burnt oils circulating .. the outside of coils should be clean yes but they are when this happens .. the coils are a new school ?? instead of a series of passes with fins they found a cheap way to build them (but they are not cheap to buy) in the new school case each fin goes to the header ... that header has lots on little nooks and crannies for dirt to collect making them not cleanable from just flushing them .. yes I am a 30 HVAC guy and this one kind of pisses me off ... its a $5000 part replacement job the john deere way and they are china and they do protect there copy rights .. so does anybody have a go around ... I am thinking a replaceable input filter that is over sized and easy to replace like an oil filter is ... come on you "school of hard knocks" engineers my answer please ...
"the dumbest guy will find the easiest cheapest fix" ... I am thinking cut the suction line hose then good luck getting a seal to a common $20 hvac filter/dryer... ... the burnt oil can circulate as it doesn't effect the coils or performance as long as it does not enter the compressor .. the HVAC filter is like a porous stone? the problem will be if it clogs the compressor will over heat and cause it to lock up from burnt gummy oil ...
I wish it was a piston pump it would be more durable to the abuse it is getting.. but then it would not be as profitable from there point of view ...
There’s no filter that’s going to do what you’re asking. You need to start with a clean system before the new compressor makes the first rotation. If that means new components because the contaminated ones can’t effectively be cleaned, then that’s what it takes. If you’re an AC guy, you know this already. There’s no cheap solution. Contaminants can’t be filtered out of a machine AC system and the filter that’s there isn’t for contaminants, it’s for moisture.
I am an AC guy ... on residential units and they run with dirt in them... but they are not vane type pumps ... one of the go arounds on a loader I have was to take back window out and install a 12inch diameter radiator fan from a junkyard .. without air movement on a hot sunny day it can get 100+ in cab as would a parked car... it works fine making a 10mph whole cab breeze ..
Yep, that’s cheaper than fixing the AC, I clearly hadn’t considered that option as a viable repair.
Any chance you can post a pic of your compressor? I've yet to see a vane pump in an automotive/ non-stationary application, so my curiosity is through the roof.
well its definitely a vane pump ... my loader had same issue ... the problem reoccurred 3 time in one year the fixes did not last ... thought I was buying too cheap ... I finally took one apart to see why it would lock up ... it easily unlocked , it was simply gummed up just a little from burnt oil ... these pumps are way to fragile for the application in my opinion .. and parts are way overpriced ... now I bought another used machine ... it had no gas in the AC system .. well that's a lie they knew what they had was a $5000 fix with 30 hrs of work to do it ... the cycle of death is simple small gas leak , the suction is not returning cool enough to keep compressor from over heating , burning the oil, gumming up ... operator keeps running it and it circulates dirty oil ..
I still have a condenser in my scrap pile I will cut it open and see the dirt... just for proof?
school of hard knocks... there it is crud ... simply band sawed down the header .. look at the little black dots on the fin cuts ... and I flushed this coil ... you can not get it clean .. the vane pump is a bad idea ... poor engineering
But is the condenser receiving proper air flow? That is number one fault in mobile HVAC. Either the binary/trinary switch fails, the fan or relay fails, or there is obstructed air flow across the condenser.
And that's a dense pack condenser that some jag-offs put AC stop leak in, it looks like.
well keep in mind that I can replace the compressor that is locking up ... it will cool perfectly fine for 3-5 hrs ... enough time to circulate the crud to the new compressor ... then it locks up ... stop leak usage i see no evidence of, ussually it leaks a glowing type fluid .. out side of the coil is clean its the inside crud causing the problem ... yes the electric fan on the kubota loader worked as it should
Having never seen an AC vane pump, couldn't you simply upgrade with an axial piston unit. Heck, the vane pump must be on an R12 system anywho.
I wish I could change to piston type its hard to identify what kind of pump it is on this John Deere but it looks just like the vane pump on a kubota loader svl90 ... still looking at parts and prices... I will talk to John deere people tomorrow in person ... maybe some mechanics too ... I am very leary of these systoms from the last dance ..
You could share a model number of the machine. Just saying.
2015 JD 60G ... it has a Sanden SD7H13 model 8957 compressor ...
This is just an Amazon quick search as so many look to them for most anything anymore: https://www.amazon.com/Sanden-SD7H13-Compressor-4674027-Excavator/dp/B0BFPGXM3Q
That black stuff you are saying is dirt looks like the desiccant from a past receiver. The system is full of it and that crap is impossible to remove 100%. It will continue to break loose and contaminate every new part you install. Your system need a complete break down and cleaning with some parts as replace only.
Exactly, I concur. This is also a Sanden type seven cylinder axial piston compressor application. Without a serial number I can't drill down to leading particulars any further.
The compressor should be available aftermarket. Any Sanden distributor can get it. The evaporator and condenser is iffy.......depends on whether it is OEM proprietary. The receiver may also be available aftermarket. You can try and remove the hoses and clean them, but I would replace them if this was a job I had to warranty. If you keep throwing parts on this without doing the job properly, you're going to have more money in it than what the cost of doing it right was from the beginning. Short cutting on these systems is extremely expensive and futile.
I'm still lost at "vane pump".
Maybe it's a museum piece?
The system has probably been overcharged attempting to make up for a dirty coil and the system "slugged". This will stir up the desiccant sending it through the system plugging, or restricting small orifices and passages.
I wish it was that simple ... but its more than the compressor type issue ... change one twice only to fail after 3-5 hrs of run time and lock up ... something else is going on
Vane pumps work pretty well in ammonia based refrigerant systems such as grocery stores use for the frozen foods storage. These however are not modulated, or throttled with rotation speed and operate steady.
You could have hoses or linesets deteriorating internally also. Acids in the system from a compressor burnout, (though mostly electrical), (or mechanical if low oil charge) can have negative impact to rubber parts. Regardless, the system needs parts removed and flushed very thoroughly before shotgun more parts installs. You are banging your head getting nowhere as the root cause has not been addressed yet. It is a sealed system meaning things don't get in from the outside so something is wrong on the inside. Pull the condenser, the evaporator, and the expansion device so you have open components and thoroughly flush these components into a clean bucket both ways so you can see and ensure they are clean. If not clean, or able to be cleaned then replacement is the next option. These systems although very tightly, and compactly installed are very simple in basic operation. The electronics to control it can be bypassed temporarily to ensure it works/performs as should.
omg.........
I’ll buy vetech, post #6 should have concluded this one, seems we will be here awhile. Maybe we can get truckshop to come pick us up when we’re no longer able to drive home.
I never doubt the value of refresh, or retraining with even the most experienced. Seen far too many flustered individuals wrapped up with the seemingly simple problem they just cannot surmount a fresh set of eyes sees readily. Pride is usually the culprit here when asking for assistance may be beneficial. There is no detriment in education I can think of. Many times we get overconfident to the point of being arrogant, or belligerent in demeanor when challenged. We all **** up; matter of life's experiences and as long as one learns from it, it's all good. No reason to discount, berate, or ridicule someone with a problem if their rendition differs from expectations as we don't all communicate alike. This gent has a problem and has been following the incorrect path for isolation I feel. We should stay the course and help as he has asked for help in his own way. Some suggestions have been put forth hopefully to be acted upon. A valuable lesson will have been learned once the problem is rectified.
Several have suggested the correct way to go forward and we keep being told it’s not that simple. I say throw the recycled radiator fan in the back window and get on down the road, then all we will have to discuss is the proper fuse and relay to use in the circuit to turn it on.
Better still, just take all the windows out. No fan required......
Well said but.......you can lead a horse to water but.........
All we can do is hope for the best as none of us are at the problem site.
When you say vane pump.........are you talking about a vac pump? Those are vane type and can run in a bit of dirt although it isn't good for them.
Like Coaldust's picture, I actually had this in my bay a couple of years ago.
Reminds me of an old boss from years ago. He was described by his subordinates thusly - “I have my opinion. Don’t confuse me with the facts.”
One of the farmers around here has the tailgate on his pickup painted with the banner, "Confuse a Liberal, use the Facts against them".
I finally got to troubleshoot the ac ... i was so scared of a vane pump issue from last battle with a svl 90 loader.. so its out of gas ..I pressure test with 220psi of nitrogen then soak with soap and find nothing leaking ... I start it and run AC it squeaks a little but doesn't lock up nitrogen is thinner than 134a gas ... gauges read high side at 300+ off the scale and 20 psi low side ... it appears blocked ... I shut it off and it does not equalize very quick ... my guess is its the metering device locked up and I lost the gas through a relief valve ... well now I got to tip the cab up to get to it ... the pump is likely fine the load was over the top and I would squeak too ... anybody done the tip the cab thing on a 60g ... its not like the 50g I had but similar
You ran it with a nitrogen charge in it? Never heard of doing that. What exactly was the purpose of that experiment?
what I was fishing for is information on vane pumps ... if it was what John deere used on there 60g or any other equipment for that matter its not clear what the product is .. only someone who has taken one apart would know ... I guess I didn't say "vane pump" enough nor do many people have experienced the poor engineering of the "vane pump" ... so lack of understanding leave some to shoot the messenger its sad that people resort to that. Tipping the cab is next ... I can find nothing on it.. as the coil is on the belly of the cab .. my guess is you have to lift it with an overhead device. .. in my case a tree ... or simply a cable to the boom...
To everyone’s defense here except yours, you insisted more than once that we were wrong and you knew for 100% certainty it was a vane type compressor. No messengers were harmed in the making of this film sir.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming Maybe MG2361 could tap in on the safest method to tip the cab. On most models I have dealt with, you unfasten bolts in back of the cab and there should be an over-center spring to assist and a safety once yer up. Your results may differ.
nitrogen is standard HVAC tool ... for leak detection .. it is harmless to the system as air would add water ... all new coils come with a nitrogen purge .. I use a high pressure gauge and am able to achieve 500# if I want .. thats kind of high and scary ... 250# should be enough to expose slow leaks ... slow leaks may not show themselves at 125# ... most components are tested at #200 or so
My guess, as vetech stated. Looks like a dryer crapped the bed. You've probably got desiccant powder plugging your orifice tube or expansion valve whichever you may have. Further enforcing the need for a flush. There are several kits on the market. Basically you disassemble the system and flush components individually, forward and back. You'll be surprised at the trash that purges.
well sorry ... I don't think anyone actually knows what kind of pump it is including me ... I was hoping someone would ... I stopped there on that answer ... because I found something that also causes lock ups ... I still would like to know ... any body ?
Nitrogen is smaller than 134 ? Did not know that, but it makes sense. Not that any of us would see leaks on the molecular level. Hell, most of us can't see without a magnifying glass.
I can verify that ... by undoing the output of that .. might as well ... I can aways get more nitrogen , its getting low...
Please don't misunderstand, by flush, I mean filling a flush bottle with an A/C compatible solvent, you can use nitrogen to jet the solvent through, we all use air, followed by a deep vacuum to purge moisture. Just wanted to clarify, "not just purging with N.
I was questioning running the system with a nitrogen charge in it instead of refrigerant. I’m quite familiar with the use of nitrogen over compressed air as a method of finding a leak.
If you properly list a model, and serial number of machine I’m more than 100% confident there’s someone here who can tell you exactly what compressor it has on it.
ok inquiring minds want to know ... mine too... verified not a clogged dry issue ... simply pulled out put side and it released 250# of pressure in 10-20 seconds ... hooked back up ... sending it to the metering device evaporator ... run it up to 250# on high side... low side is on 30 climbing very slow it looks like an hr or 2 to equalize ... 10-20 seconds is normal from my experiences.. so it back to tipping the cab... front panel removed ... identified bolts behind the seat ... and ???
I'm still lost at "vane pump". It's an axial piston pump.
2015 60g serial # 1ff060gxegj287918
This whole time I thought we were working on a pre historic wheel loader. What a difference a model and serial number make.
thanks that info is helps thanks ...
so put just 150# of nitrogen (gas would work to) ... ran compressor it turns but squeaks , I believe the main bearing is the squeak it also heats up that end of compressor thats probably needs replaced unless oil is dry maybe ... I will remove it to know ... still the flow is weak through metering device nitrogen would flow easier than gas I believe ... I believe it is sticking when it wants maybe oil issue again .. the symptoms seem to change ... its not locking up totally like it was ... I believe its down to component testing on bench.
sorry ....
I’m feeling pretty stupid at this point for even trying to give any advice here. It isn’t going to matter anyway.
I’m with vetech, I’m going somewhere more productive.
dismantled the compressor ... it's got 6 pistons way better than kubotas vane pumps.. but running dry on oil made it turn stiff .. close examination I see aluminum flakes from pistons sockets disintegrating but not much in the way of burnt oil ... the compressor replacement cost is reasonable ... still a flow issue ..
Would you please change your name to Mr Vane Pump.
I must be old. I don't understand a damn thing.
I'm not changing my name .... sorry you feel that way ... I though the "vane pump" would of been a common frustration of techy mechanics anywhere ... your free to move on and be more productive ...
Well, running anything out of oil will very rapidly make it "turn stiff". They don't hold a lot of compressor oil. And an A/C compressor out of oil is definitely going to lock up, I've just had one do that. And of course, once an A/C compressor runs dry, it's going to produce a lot of metal filings and other debris that's going to block the dessicant bag or receiver/dryer and also fill the condenser and evaporator full of nasty crap, that's going to cause a "flow issue". I think you've already received a lot of excellent valuable advice about properly cleaning the system, but you aren't really listening .....
Well...... WRONG! Yeah whatever WRONG LOL....WRONG again Still wrong ***.......how many times can someone be so wrong on the same dam thing? LMAO......this is some BS! Well over 100 years of experience in this field from responses on the first 2 pages alone.......you literally ignored all advice. You seem to be very convinced of your own superiority. I know guys like you very well. They are know-it-alls, and can be taught nothing. I don't even know why your here asking anything.......no one will have YOUR answer. Me move along? OH HELL NO. I'm going to continue to point out everything you don't know or are doing wrong. I wouldn't miss this train wreck for all the tea in China!!
Easy bro, remember how long we were grounded last time. Say it with me, "goosfrabba" BWAHAHA
Speaking personally I can't see anything wrong with the position of @Vetech63 . For 4 pages the OP has been denying everything, even when faced with conclusive proof to the contrary. A grovelling apology might have gone some way towards sorting out the situation, but I think Hell is more likely to freeze over before that happens. In the circumstances the pile-on was justified IMHO.
Well, while we're at it, operating the system with nitrogen in lieu of refrigerant has two shortcomings: Doesn't suspend the oil droplets that circulate along with the gas. Doesn't actuate the expansion valve, as the valve cycles on temperature, not pressure.
I thought temperature regulated the expansion valve but still had a baseline operation dictated by pressure. But since N is inert and doesn't react to temp and pressure changes it would essentially jam up the works. I'm still learnin stuff. Good catch.
Blurb on expansion valve Expansion Valve Malfunction Nissens provides a technical bulletin on expansion valve malfunction. cvwmagazine.co.uk
I really don't feel the need to further participate in the thread but I did find this on the local Craigslist. It is a 2015 Deere 60G listed for sale and there is a clear photo of the a/c compressor mounting in the engine compartment: As can be ascertained from the photo, this is a Sanden type axial piston compressor. Here is the link to the advertisement which contains additional photos: 2015 Deere 60G Mini Excavator - farm & garden - by dealer - sale - craigslist Clean Excavator, only 3,100 Hours. Quick Attach, Blade, Hydraulic Thumb. 23" Bucket, 14,500 Lbs. **Free Freight within 500 Miles** Stock #7313 Ask about Our Warrantied Equipment. Financing available... peoria.craigslist.org I do hope the gent can get on the correct path with the information which has been presented.
To answer this question, there is a jack that needs to be purchased to raise the cab. Using this tool is the safest way to tilt the cab. When cab is raised, there is also a safety prop on the underside of the cab that needs to be engaged.
well until page 4 when I saw the PDF from Sanden about the pump numbers describing it with the word piston not just the word axial pump .. I was not sure ... so complain about my delivery if your that way if you want ... but I read all of your comments even though you don't believe it ... I just wanted to slow walk through the issue .. I wanted to see the dirt and so I dismantled the compressor to find hardly any dirt but a few flakes of aluminum ... bottom line is John Deere parts can be found and are priced very reasonable compared to kubota it appears easier to get to the evaporator ... I already have a flushing tool ... I will order all parts I can't clean like the coils due to the way they are constructed .. you don't have to get upset and shoot me for looking for CHEATS or asking if anyone has a go around or a cheaper source of parts ... now I see the tilt tool where it is located from a helpful member ...
He explained it very clearly……I believe your reading comprehension needs repaired before your a/c system. Please carry on…….
It's all good. We all think we know everything. Those of us who really do... know that we're always learning. Can't p!$$ & moan about it. Use it as a building block to grow and move on. I learned a bit on this thread, and I considered myself pretty competent. The N pressure test was pretty cool, personally never tried it. Learned a little something about the operation of the expansion valve too. That's why I enjoy this place so much.
Well...........is this fixed yet?