I have a 2003 Freightliner Classic dump truck with about 450k miles on it. Double frame, originally built as a dump truck. Freightliner tuf trac suspension. 18' box. 10 speed transmission, 12.7 Detroit 500 HP. 250" wheelbase with plenty of space. I am an excavation contractor but recently I have been doing some trucking for a few local guys. The problem is its hard to get on the bigger highway chipping and paving jobs without having a 14 wheeler as that seems to be the minimum expectation out here. It doesn't seem to pay more, but its a matter of getting hired or not. Legally the truck bridge laws to 16 tons, an extra pusher would make it legal for 18.1 tons. For what I do, its not worth adding. Only for hauling on other peoples jobs. I guess my question is what size and brand pusher should I be looking for and where to find it. As well as whether its a bad idea or not. I have never owned or driven a 14 wheeler, is two extra tires and an extra axle a pain? Seems like once you get one drop axle you may as well get two, and if you have two you may as well get three, on and on... I guess everyone wants more for less.
This is the truck. It would probably involve moving the existing axle back about a foot, and getting a smaller drivers side fuel tank so I can push that battery box forward.
Here, a ten wheeler with set back front axle can haul 15.5 ton. Pusher axles are not a thing. That truck here would only be legal for 12 ton, and it looks heavy, so you wouldn't even get that
The truth----unless you have enough work for it on a steady basis----don't waste your time. And looks are deceiving in that photo at that distance. Drop axle experience I have about 40 years dealing with training wheels--more than anyone on here. If you were to install- yes you would need to move the existing. Trouble is you really want the same brand of drop axle on both, and plumbed independent of one another. Model ST- 1300 Hendrickson. Unless your into filling your time with extra trucking, in most cases hiring out to haul with a single dump doesn't net much. * in many cases as you pointed out at the bottom of your first post---it's a little dick syndrome sort of thing.
If that's what it takes to keep busy then I guess but there are guys around here who just have a truck, nothing else, and don't have any drop axles who are making it hauling 12-13 tons. Mostly homeowner work I think.
Correct--by the time the cost of parts, material & labor plus it's just one more thing to maintain verses how much extra will be netted and the fact it's adding stress to a 22 year old machine. Just how much will it net profit wise in one year? I just went through this same scenario with someone thinking the same idea. After two years he is glad he only installed a single drop axle.
For me and i think others its so hard to figure out what to do ? How much is it worth spending ? How much with this help and make us in the future ?Are these same jobs going to be around or are they going to go away and we will need something totally different ? It would be great to have a crystal ball. I could use two bigger pieces of equipment but what i have is working out .
How much are they paying per ton? Only adding less than 2 tons of payload doesn't seem like it would be worth the expense and hassle as others have said. How do you like the 315? I've owned a few conventional 315's but never a CR.
Most of these jobs aren't paying by the ton. As I said earlier, its not really a matter of making more money, its just a matter of getting the work because they don't like the smaller trucks for paving or chipping because they have to unhook more frequently and reset which costs them time. But from talking to a friend I have been running with it sounds like there is some summer work I could get at $145-$130 an hour. But they all want 14 wheelers minimum. Currently I am getting about $120-$125 an hour. But I did do a tonnage haul recently, and it was $15 per ton for about a 45 min each way run. And I did 5 runs that day. So in theory the additional pusher that day would have grossed me 10.5 tons extra over the day, so $157.50 more. Thanks TS, that's some good advice. I know there is a Hendrickson on it currently, I will just have to see what model it is. I am a one man operation, so my thinking recently has been to do some trucking for the commercial projects and road work going on in the area as my main thing has been residential house pads which have slowed in my local area by a lot. Commercial is still going, and it seems like one way for me to break into that market is to do trucking for the projects. Because of the box capacity, operators frequently overload the truck. So I think the "adding stress" part is already taking place... Thanks.
That's what tri-axles are getting here $120-$125 per hour grossing 25 ton payloads. Well $157.5 extra in one day is something to consider.
How bad do the tires scrub on something like that?
View attachment IMG_9320.jpeg It would be considerable work to add a pusher to the truck, as Id have to move the old pusher back a foot, then move the passenger fuel tank to where that aluminum step is. There used to be a DPF in there but I’ve removed that. What would be the best way to relocate the batteries on the drivers side? Someone was saying to get a sealed battery and put it in the cab but I don’t like that idea. I was thinking get a shorter fuel tank and just move the battery box forward. I’ve been looking into what I could get a new pusher for, and it seems like I could find a used Hendrickson 13k used from vander haags for $2,000. Or I could get a new one for $6,700 but they have a 10 week lead time. Would it be ok to put a different model of pusher on there than the other one even if they are both 13k Hendricksons and very similar? This axle is from 2003 and I can’t find the exact same one online.
They are steerable, so they don't scrub
Get rid of the extra fuel tank on the passenger side. Put the batteries in the step box on the passenger side. Haul less fuel, haul more payload.
It is a split tank; part of it is the hydraulic for the lift cylinder. Are you saying get a smaller hydraulic only tank? Like this:
Yes, you could make one of those work. How far are you driving per day/ got fuel at the shop/ drive by fuel station? Running day work, you don't need 300 gallons of fuel riding around. Just go with a little smaller tank on the drivers side, slide the batteries up, and like you said, ditch the passenger side box and move that tank ahead on the passenger side and put some steps on it. I don't like batteries in the cab either.
Could possibly just use the passenger side tank and ditch drivers side or move passenger side to drivers and just rerun hydraulic lines
It all depends on the job, but I get about 3 days out of 100 gallons. I'm getting about 6.3-7 mpg. So far we've been working 10.5 hr days, but with paving and chipping this summer that could go up to 14 or 15 hours. I don't have a great fuel setup yet at my yard, but I'm working on getting a bulk tank setup right now. I'm not in a remote area, so fueling shouldn't be too big an issue. That driver side tank is 100 gallon, and the passenger tank says 70 on it but I think that was the capacity before it was made into a split tank. Seems to fit about 50 gallons diesel in that. So all together 150 gallons. Will adding the extra axle add a lot of resistance and lower my mileage noticeably? I think the truck is worth putting the money into making the improvement. I bought it from the original owner, and he was the only driver, so he took good care of it.
I'm surprised you get that good of mileage dump trucking. I don't think the extra axle will be noticeable in the mileage. If 100 gallons is getting you three days, you certainly don't need more fuel than that. 60 gallon on the drivers side with the battery box, would work, and keep your split tank for the pass. side. If you really want to get some room, and you have enough room by the cylinder in the doghouse, most guys here run the trapezoid/ triangle tanks that sit by the lower cylinder pin. They are a pain to put hyd. fluid in, because you have to have the bed up, and you don't know how much fluid you need, unless the bed is down..... But I think you have plenty of room, and won't need to go to that. Most guys here don't have as much wheelbase as you do.
I don't know what the pricing and work scenario is like out there, but IMO I'd forget modifying the truck and do more on the the excavation side and trucking for yourself. I make decent money when I'm running my tandem dump, but I also only haul for myself, on my projects. I make more running the equipment vs the truck, but by doing my own trucking I get the material exactly when and where I want it, don't make a mess, rarely get stuck, and can tail gate material. There are some guys around here making money just running dump trucks, but there are a lot that aren't. If they are honest with themselves and their book keeping the margins are really thin. Take a hard look at what it will cost you all in to add another drop axle vs what the real benefits will be. Getting more jobs that don't pay any better doesn't sound very good to me.
Your axle is a ST1300, 13,000 lb cap. Hendrickson's old or new are pretty much the same. The reason for same axle is parts, no sense in installing a old Watson Chalin or Van Rayden. Although Hendrickson and Watson are under same company now. Buying used expect to replace kingpins, tie rod ends, steer shocks and trailing arm bushings. Along with shoes, possibly drums, wheel seals and maybe a slack adjuster. But when in comes to mounting the proper structural way is both are tied in close to a crossmember, if not then adding a crossmember is correct. The other is batteries, get a long narrow box one only 13.5" wide and make a integral mount tied into just in front of lift axle, only need three batteries, and all inline towards frame. Just cut the drivers tank down about 6 inches for extra room. And leave right as is only moved under cab. I've probably installed 50 some drop axles through the years--just have to use available room with a slight twist. But just figure 9K minimum to complete it maybe a little more--just price some grade eight 5/8's flange bolts and flange nuts. Plus the air control valves if you do this, only use full function GT-5040 valves, way less bull **** to plumb, but you will or should use two load air control regulators with a gauge for each axle. * Oh--and run Yokohama RY023's 255's--best tire for tags, I had some run 200,000 miles with a properly maintained axle and tire pressure.
Pusher axle would get you 4000 more pounds, pusher axle weighs 4000 pounds. Just make em out of cardboard and tell whoever is loading you to keep it at 16 ton
A drop axle doesn't weigh 4K.
I had the same question, but they weigh 922 lbs. And keep in mind I would be gaining that 2.1 tons taking the additional 900 lbs into consideration. But if you wanted to get that technical, reducing my fuel by 50 gallons would save me about 400 lbs too.
This has been my thinking for a long time. I've only recently started running my truck for others since things have been slower on the excavation side. All assets should be utilized. I won't run cheap hauls, but either way I am going to be paying the registration and insurance on the truck whether it runs or not.
Understood. My situation is a little different, as is our pricing, insurance, registration, etc I'm sure. I'm tagged at 54000 to stay under the federal heavy use tax, so I can only put 5000mi a year on the truck. Mine is a tandem and in VA I can legally haul 14 tons, 15 if they load it just right. My registration, overload permit and insurance together are $2500/yr. It doesn't take long to earn that back hauling for myself. It's owned free and clear and a 1997 model so depreciation is minimal, the truck can just sit if need be. Sometimes it gets run 8hrs a day 5 days a week, others it may only go out once or twice a month, depending on what jobs I'm doing.
One other item to check, are the OEM crossmembers the arched welded type or 5 to 6 piece bolt type.
View attachment IMG_9339.jpeg Here is the crossmember layout.
Here a tandem vs tri axle is 38k vs 42k So with a 20k steer 58k tandem, 62k tri. To count as a seperate axle group it needs like 6ft of separation, not possible on most dump trucks.
One truck.I ran only had a 75 gal tank and I was running low on just 1 shift hauling snow. (Normal 12hr shifts). Got around 6mpg.
We get $135hr for 0-10 yard loads. Doesn't pay different if it's 1 yard or 10.
To get a 43,000 group weight one drop axle only roughly on that WB, the drop would be 9'6" from center of rear drive axle. But all that aside because it's legal now with one. The more distance the better. * In your image above and this is where the work starts--if you were to move the existing axle back 1' the crossmember needs to be moved also. But with those air tanks mounted inside of frame it's going to get real tight, real tight. Plus it also supports the carrier bearing for drive shaft. I can't see all in front area but I'm guessing a minimum of two extra crossmembers--max distance between crossmembers runs in the area of 44", on average. So there is allot of reconstructing to hang another axle and not knowing the distance from center of front drive to BBC it's hard to say just how much extra weight it will carry, It can carry extra but maybe not as much as law allows on bridge with two drop axles. You need to check AZ bridge laws for WB with two drop axles locally by talking to a AZ weigh cop. Don't just go by what's printed online, some in print are not actual. * And those crossmembers are one piece welded type, Freightliner does make 5 & 6 piece and can be found in salvage yards. And those have slotted bolt holes.
Getting paid $135 per hour for 0 CY yard loads must be one helluva profit maker!
So there needs to be a crossmember wherever the large bracket for the drop axle is bolted to the frame?
Correct--Installing a drop axle midship of crossmembers puts allot of sideloading stress on frame rails, double frame or not. You won't find a factory installed drop axle that doesn't have a crossmember directly at mounting point. If it did it was a something that shouldn't have made it's way past engineering desk. And there are those who would dispute it, but have no leg to stand on just {because they did it and nothing has happened yet}. Notice yours has a member at mounting point.
You went kind of quiet on your project.
Still no movement, must have gone to a back channel.
Speaking of rates. I got clipped for $800 for 2 yards of concrete 20 mins from plant. 300 short load delivery, 60 fuel surcharge and the other typical fees.
I have been busy trucking but have been thinking about this a lot. I have been having a tough time finding a Hendrickson drop axle locally, but I can find plenty of the Watsons. I spoke with a company that upfits beds to get a price on an axle, but they also quoted me to do the whole job. They want $21,000 to do the whole thing, the reconfiguration of the tanks, batteries, move the old axle, supply and install the new one, all of it. I paid $42,000 for the truck, so then I’d be into it for $63,000. Which seems about what a 14 wheeler can be had for. Another guy said he could supply and install a used axle for $6,000-$7,000 as long as the frame was clear. (Not including moving the old axle) I’ve also considered just buying another similar truck, but it seems like someone else’s 25 year old junk with deferred maintenance runs about $45,000-$65,000 so I don’t think I would be getting ahead doing that. Alternatively, you can buy a new build truck like this for $155,000. That’s definitely out of the budget, and they do look nice but it’s still a 20 year old truck… New Build KW T800 16 Wheeler Dump Truck - heavy equipment - by dealer - sale - craigslist *CAT C-15 Motor & Chalmers Suspension & Low Miles* **Located in Phx, AZ - Can Ship Anywhere** Licensed Dealer and Financing Available $160,000 or best offer For more info - Austin -... flagstaff.craigslist.org I think my best option is to find a decent used 13k Hendrickson somewhere and drive far to pick it up if need be. Then just do all the work myself in stages so that I can still run the truck when needed. And then worst comes to worst I just upgraded my truck and when hauling for my own jobs I just have that much more capacity too.
Cost I posted above was DIY. Adding a axle to your situation is costly & time consuming even doing it yourself.
How much more weight can a truck with a tag do? Here 4 axle is 50k, 3 axle is 42k, 2 is 38k. 20k for single. So would haul maybe 1 yard (if that) more on 3 rear axles or maybe 2.5 yards on 4 axles (figure the tag add what, 2000lbs?)
Yes, definitely, that’s what I thought. And you are right on the money.
This week I’ve been hauling millings for a school bus barn job. The round trip haul time was 2 hrs and 35 minutes. We were paid hourly, so payload didn’t matter to me, but it can definitely add up. Also, they kept loading me to 19.5 18.5 17.5 16.5 because of how big that box is and how much moisture there was in the material. So when the loaders don’t have a scale, they frequently overload me. It seems no one out here is following bridge law. A guy was telling me his 16 wheeler was legal for 22.5 tons. There is no way. That should bridge for more like 20.5 or maybe 21 if it’s a light truck.
Have you done major refits yourself before? My only concern of diy is this is a big job very doable but you should expect a pile of work and the truck to be down for several days
Here in PA, someone has to recertify the chassis, for load rating and GVW, when an axle is added.
Yes--some states do, and some don't enforce it, some do. That's why I expressly noted the crossmember relationship to axle mount. And most single 3/8's rail isn't rated for that type of stress. Freightliner is 7/16" or double rail, some are 1/2" rail. His should be fine with double rail and correct position of crossmembers.
One was just posted today. They are asking $4,200. It’s a Hendrickson 13k, that’s all I know about it so far. A new axle is $7300 not including wheels or tires. Seems ok. At least I wouldn’t have to drive cross country to get it.
Don't know know the year but yes it's a Hendrickson fabricated axle, bushings and king-pins are readily available in most cases if needed. The prices have gone up considerably in the last five years, $5,000 use to buy new. It looks to already have a GT5040 control valve, which would put it somewhere in the last 9 years or so, plus it has the better round tube tie-rod instead of the flat bar.
I was looking at that too. Is that the silver thing next to the air tank in the 2nd picture?
Correct.
Dang. For us a long haul might be 40 miles!
A friend running his 4 axle with 4axle pup is hauling away from a grinder on the runway at local airport, then will be hauling back in at $185.00 @ hour.