I'm going to need a crane to erect the shop I'm building. I thought I was going to be able to borrow a 30ton Grove RT crane from my boss/friend. But I'd really like to use my own equipment and I don't know if my buddy's crane will ever run again. A rough terrain crane or crawler would be nicest due to the ground conditions I'll be working with, but even older units generally go for more than I can spend. Older truck cranes seem to for reasonably cheap, and I could live with the lack of mobility, and an over the road crane would be nice. Right now I'm looking at a '67 Bucyrus-Erie 45C truck crane, do anyone here know anything about these cranes? Piece of old junk (I've got lots of this already) or a decent older unit that can be made to work. Any ideas about what it's worth? Thanks for any and all help.
That's a nice looking unit . Spotted one on machinery trader to give an idea of what people are asking . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11265701 For my use I like a truck crane as it's pretty handy to hop in ,turn key & hit the road to the job site . If site conditions are bad we might send a dozer or skid loader in first to cut a road or spread out stone for the crane . willie 59 has some experience on a B&E 45C . He might chime in with thoughts & ideas .
Ok thanks for the info and the link. That brings up another question, that kind of licensing and insurance is required to move something like this over the road? Right now that's not really an issue, but eventually I'd like to get that done and be able to drive the crane over the road (and ideally lift for hire). But that would be a long way away from today.
Don't know if Texas requires plates on a crane ? Some states do and some don't . That will play in to how it get's insured .
It doesn't really matter how good that crane is. I have no idea where to even start looking for the parts for it. Everything is going to break. Time spent hunting for parts is just lost. If your dead set on owning a crane and your just starting I'd buy a grove tms250. Every part on that crane is just a phone call away. If you keep your eyes open you can probably find a pretty good deal on one. Really strong simple cranes. http://m.machinerytrader.com/ListingDetail/Index?industryName=MAT&listingId=10316993&categoryId=1016 This one has been derated to a 14.5 ton but it'll go toe to toe with about any new 40 ton. A 3208 with an Allison transmission. You can drive it from the upper cab. It has the front outrigger for a 360 degree use. I don't know if that crane is still available but it's one heck of a buy.
Knepptune, I hear what your saying. But you have to remember I'm not going to be doing this where time is the absolute factor. I'm just a goober that has big junk and needs a crane. I have a machine shop, and given enough time I can pretty much fabricate most parts. I know not the most efficient, but theoretically do able. I'd like to buy a Grove like that, but 30k is out of the budget, I'd like to keep it around 10 if possible. My buddy got his 30ton Grove for 5k at a Richie Bros auction, but he let it set to the point where it's a huge massive project that not be savable.
Ye I understand the money thing. There's a lot of valves and machine specific parts on a crane tho. There was a tms250 sold in a Ritchie auction for under 10k awhile ago.
Yeah alskdjfhg , Any idea what the feller is asking for the B&E crane you posted ? Looks like a good rig . Might even hire him to do the lifting when building the shop ? All that being said ......... If you want it then go after it bro ! You know it's ok to buy something without going on the World Wide Waste Of Time .
Very true, but what was made in '67 can be remade(within reason). Knowing a retired P&W toolmaker helps with all the weird machining projects that come up when running junk. It's in an auction right now, it's been a 1650 for the last two weeks and the auction ends in about two more weeks, just see how much it'll get bid up too. Since it's in Higgensville MO, it'll cost about $3500 to have it moved. All the other pictures that are posted of it support the idea that it's in pretty nice shape, there is also a video that shows it moving around.
Usually licensing is not a big issue, here in Oregon I usually see "Fixed load" truck licenses, which means the weight is the weight, you don't haul anything, just move the vehicle from place to place. Insurance for driving should be as easy as getting a DOT inspection for steering, brakes, lights, etc. Liability for crane use would be a whole 'nother animal and you may not be able to buy one without the other, have to ask your local commercial insurance agent.
Any machine older than 20 years old is an ongoing repair project.All sorts of parts, especially hoses and seals, need attention. It s just the way things are. At least with Grove you can buy parts. Making parts yourself s not practical. Try making a hydraulic solenoid or a pneumatic valve. You will need a CDL to drive this crane on public roads.
That's a nice looking old B&E . Owner has took good care of it .:thumbsup: If you know what to do with it ??? Might make some money !
Hold on .......... Before bidding I would have to look this rig over in person or have someone in the area do a visual inspection on it . Something be funky about it ..... :cool2 I cant' tell if it's just the counter weight hanging crooked or the house itself ? http://www.rockanddirt.com/equipment-for-sale/BUCYRUS-ERIE/ERIE 45C/invnum=38038957 Video doesn't show much as they don't swing it around ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGluFeqtXdM
Thanks td25c Rock and dirt isn't I found the listing, I was watching it on purplewave, different time for the auctions as well.
Angle of the picture mostly. The right side outrigger jack is forward of the left one, makes it look like it's closer to the house. Counterweight does look a bit slanty but again it could just be the angle of the picture. In the video the house swings flat and level.
Since Christmas vacation starts Tuesday, I might take a day and go see it in person. I was also considering this one http://www.purplewave.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?151217/H8078 But being an RT crane I'm reasonably certain the price will be bid up significantly.
I am not sure how much is too much for you. I bought an RT crane for $10,000 and it was not even a super great deal, as I saw similar cranes go for even less at auctions. But I got a working crane for that amount. Just one job I got because I had this crane, paid for this crane, last month.
I'd like to keep the overall price around 10k. Seems that cranes in the size I would like (30ton-ish) sell for about 15-20k for an old one.
Found a couple rigs that you could hop in the pickup & drive across town to look at . Truck mount http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11065977 R/T http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10585031 Might not hurt to go meet them & kick a few tires and tell them your looking for a budget machine . This Link belt is pretty cheap , Up in Colorado . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11115035 I generally like to go in person when looking at equipment & have the owner run it through the motions .
I like that link belt. The only thing I don't like is that it has the free fall hoists. That crane is actually located in Southern California. Interestingly enough I know where there is a 20 ft jib insert for that crane. Sitting in the weeds behind our shop.
All those look like nice cranes, but the ones in Houston are just too high for my gobber blood. That LinkBelt sure looks nice, it's is priced at about the absolute max I could do, I think distance kills that deal. Kenpptune, why are the free fall hoists a bad thing? If that Koehring S888 doesn't get big up all that much in the next few days, I'm considering it. An RT crane would be nicer for what I need to do right now. I've gotten a quote of $3200 to have it moved. I got a quote of $3500 to have the B&E 45C moved, I can't quite figure it out because the 45C is about 15k lbs heavier, 400 more miles, and a much larger load. Quote scares me because it leads me to believe the shipper is missing something. I don't want to get stuck with a crane 2 states away and scrambling to find a way to move it.....
Yeah Knepptune , I thought the Link -Belt looked real nice for the money . Good catch on the California location . I would think Link - Belt would have decent parts support ? Main office in Lexington KY . http://www.linkbelt.com/index.htm Are the free fall hoist similar to the Grove free fall winch ? Have the free fall on one of my units .
I'll bet you could get that link belt bought for 10k. We had an htc-35 with the same hoist setup. Basically it has one hoist motor and two reels. Clutches and brakes determine which hoist moves. What I remember about ours was that the hoist was really slow and if you lost hyd power the load free fell. The hoist just never felt real safe so we sent it on down the road. That crane actually ended up in Texas.
I think they would go down to 10k as well, but then I'd have to have it moved. Closest place in California is about 1300 miles from me, that'll get expensive fast.
That koehring is actually a Lorain probably 28t or so. It's the forerunner to the terex rt230. Those are good enough cranes but they sure made them as light as possible. Parts are available but not real easy to get your hands on. Terex doesn't do a fantastic job of part support on the brands they bought out.
Got it Knepptune . The free fall hoist on my Grove winch is a hydro actuated spring loaded pressure plate set up . It takes hydro power to release the pressure plate to put it in " Free Fall " mode .
That seems a lot safer. Ours had brake bands that locked the hoist but they were manual. If that koehring sells for under 10 that's probably a decent buy. Need to see if it comes with the jib tho. If they don't have the jib that'll knock 2-3k off the value.
Don't give up yet . Your best bet is to shop local . Take some time & look around town . I'd be surprised if you can't find a fixer upper setting somewhere in the Houston TX area in the price range . OK .... I'm pulling out the stops now . This model is a classic first generation Big G crane . This is where it all started guy's , would like to own this one myself . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10855565 Maryland to Texas is a long haul but what the heck , drop on some music from the era and keep shifting gears till you get to the job . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZr8iReEqMQ
Pretty simple set up . Has a separate lever with a safety lock on the handle . Cut it loose & she drops like a rock . Only time I use it is when reeving up the block , I kick in the " free fall " lever and it allows me to hop out & pull cable buy hand . I guess that makes me an oiler and operator .
Problem with trying to find a project in the Houston area is that there is such an unbelievable amount of junk dealers, finding a realistically priced project (especially in a crane) is about impossible. And quite frankly I'm getting tired of dealing with junk dealers who I can tell are obviously misrepresenting equipment/lying and trying to take advantage of me. At-least with the online stuff I can deal with the same people but from the comfort of home. Although every once in a while Richie Bros has something that goes cheap, last auction they had a 40ton lattice boom P&H truck crane that was as old as mosses. It looked like a decent of machine that would have worked perfect for me, sold for 4k, I just couldn't make the auction. As soon as I get a class A, I'd do it in a heart beat.
Not getting screwed on a deal is an art, not a science!
That's for sure.... I think I was burned only once, the stupid POS Case excavator. But if my rebuilt hydraulic pumps work, I'll still come out pretty good in the long run.
Yeah alskdjfhg , would a digger derrick truck suit your immediate needs on building the shop & lifting tasks ? http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=5774077 We have an old Ford digger derrick , use it for odd jobs & drilling post holes . Comes in handy at times . HeavyEquipmentForums
I'll be needing to lift the building stuff to a height of 35-40' and when I start to erect the over head crane that'll weight about 20k lbs. Boom truck that could handle it wouldn't be cheap. Be nice for small stuff though.
Sounds like it's time to start turning wrenches on the Grove RT 63S . :yup HeavyEquipmentForums Getter done bro .:thumbsup
Yeah well my buddy's not making it easy on me. He took all the hydraulic out when he first got it about 10 years go and basically wasted it. I don't blame him but hes hesitant to buy 200 gallons of new oil and have it wasted/leak out while we flush out the system and chase bad seals. So I've been trying to figure out how to get the water separated from the oil that originally came out of the machine. I have a way that would work, but it's "too slow" for the boss. He's a good guy, but has a tendency to always want to grab a larger sledge hammer. As soon as I have my last final, Monday night, I'll start working on the 63S again. But I'd really like to have my own crane.
Call around the local dealers and contractors, ask if anybody has clean used hydraulic oil coming out of their machines, maybe you can get a few barrels cheap or free, just filter it going into the machine, once you get all the leaks down to a dull roar and decide if it's worth going forward with you can change it out for new. Those old machines, while it's always best to have pristine hyd oil, were not exactly high tech and can withstand a bit of imperfection for testing purposes.
That's what I would do for now . Help your buddy get the 63 going & use it . Somewhere in the whole process you may end up owning it . Good luck on the final exam test .
Just curiosity here, but I've seen this on Craigslist for a while. https://houston.craigslist.org/hvo/5292719194.html What the deal with a machine like this? I'm guessing it's was ment to be used in a dock, having tires not tracks so as not to damage anything? How realistic is this pricing? I think it's quite high for such a strange machine.
Yep , that's a "wagon" crane . That's actually a pretty good deal if it checks out and you have a use for it . Spotted this Clark 720 fixer upper . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11428245
There was lots of these around in yards that moved and stored quipment and bigger components also. They seem to be OK if you are nit trying to off road them. Lot cheaper to maintain tires then tracks. I would like one in my own fleet for general hoisting on the old iron. Nothing like a chainfall on a crane hook for big parts or engine changes.
P&H RT22 rig in the Houston area . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11157923 We do the same with the chain hoist old-iron-habit . Handy when working alone, position load up close with crane then hop out finish it with the chain hoist .
I've meet those guys, they are just a shade above scrappers. Everything I saw that they had was leakey, beat up junk. Nothing wrong with that, no problem with junk, but they ask too much for projects. That one looks decent from the pictures, but I'd be very surprised if it didn't have some problem with it.
That Koehring RT crane sold for $11,500... http://www.purplewave.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?151217/H8078/1
Another theoretical question. What's y'all opinion on a 35ton Koehiring truck crane? Gas engine lower Detroit upper, redone air lines, 115' of boom, fairly local, supposed to be a runner. Guy is asking 17.5k, but would take 15k.
Would you be moving the Koehring at all? Being a stick boom will be added time and expense plus another truck to every move. If only using it at home it should work out fine. Seems at the very top of the price market for a old lattis boom small crane. Especially with a lower gas engine. But then a pickup costs $50,000 plus for one with a little comfort built in. What gas engine is in it. I love the Detroit in the house but not all will agree with me.
All good points old-iron-habit . Totally agree . Time comes when a feller has to open up the check book a little wider to get what they really need . We started out with an old friction lattice boom truck crane . Good old rig ,has Waukesha gas engines . Made a few bucks with it . Could road it with 40' of boom on it . Also was handy for dragline at times . Spotted this sweet looking Grove TM 250 ...... Cummins in the truck & Ford V8 gas on top . Take it easy as you might get a speeding ticket with the 855 cummins power . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11421799
I like it. A good looking machine with hardly no hours. If accurately represented that could be a great machine that would hold its value.
I'm wondering if a telehandler wouldn't work better. If you keep your eyes open you can pick up a decent 10k telehandler with a 54 ft boom for 15k. There not on every corner for that price but they are out there. With your budget on a crane your not getting anything much above scrap metal. There are a lot of usable cranes in the 25-30k price but that is about the bottom of the useable crane market. That being said that 22t p&h looks like a good buy. For that price it's gonna have some issues but those little 22t cranes are dang good tough little cranes. They have a 30t load chart and will definitely do a lot of work. I'd make sure they have the jib for it though.
My exact thoughts as well . old-iron , what would that machine have sold for new in 1970 ? I'm guessing in the 50 to 60 K range .:beatsme
Good point Knepptune . That's exactly what we found when first went looking at hydro truck cranes . Had to open up the check book a little wider to get past the junk . It was worth it though , ended up finding one local that would turn the key & go . Also came with proper load block , full rigging boxes with shackles , chokers , hooks etc . Funny part was as we started to leave with it the original owner walks up to the cab and yell's at me " there's a long length of rope behind the drivers seat for tagging the load or if you take the notion to hang yourself "
Thanks for the comments guys, I agree with ya'll saying the valuation is high. Especially after I missed the lattice boom 40t P&H that sold in the last RB auction for 4K, looked like a decent old machine. Yes and no, the biggest use would be on the farm. But being able to lift something across town would be nice. I've bought a boring mill that weights just under 10 tons and a crane is pretty much the only way to move it. Eventually I would like to be able to lift for hire, but that may never happen. I'd have no problem with Detroits, I'm in the "I like the sound" camp..... Yes and no. It might work for the building, but when I go to install the overhead crane I want, the weight would be a bit much. And I've already got a 25k Hyster.
I would guess that would be in the ballpark. I remember when the 100 ton Pettibone Hydraulic truck cranes were being built special equipped for the railroad in the mid 70s they were going for around $96,000 a copy according to a friend whom worked in sales at the time.
That's interesting old-iron . 50 to 60 K was a big chunk of change in 1970 . Looking back at what they cost new 45 years ago, what the old rig will sell for today, and what a comparable new machine would cost today . Grove starts out in the 55 ton range in truck mounts . It's a bigger machine than the TM250, so not a good comparison . http://www.manitowoccranes.com/en/cranes/grove/grove-products/truck-mounted/TMS700E This new Terex 340 charts about the same as my Grove TM 250 rigs outside of the outrigger spread . knepptune has mentioned this before . The old 25 ton of yesterday is now considered a 40 ton today . Load charts start inside or on top of the out rigger now where as in the past they generally started the chart 4 feet away from the outrigger . I suppose the original idea was to rate a crane setting beside a truck to offload it ? Wonder what the new Terex 340 would go for ? 350K ? http://www.terex.com/cranes/en/idc0...b/@cra/documents/web_content/ucm02_047832.pdf
Terex kinda threw the prices off. They are a cheap crane. Good enough crane but terex certainly didint spend any extra time or money on the design. The tms250c would have been a direct competitor to the t230 and the t230 was certainly a more usable, practical crane. The grove was defiantly built better but couldn't compete mainly due to the wider o/r spread and longer boom. Grove then came out with the tms500 40 ton in several variations and although it was a better crane then terex's t340 now they couldn't compete on price. I thought I saw somewhere where you could buy 3 new t340s for the price of two 40ton groves. Anyway if you want a gut check make a pick at 100% capacity at a decent radius with a terex. You'll absolutely swear it's going over. Those o/r's come off the ground at 75% of capacity. They will pick their load chart but if your not used to one it'll have you puckered up all day.
With all that being said if a brand new 340-1xl showed up at the shop I wouldn't complain a bit. 105' live boom decent load chart. It would make me happy.
I was really surprised by the opposite: I picked a load, exactly at 100% of capacity with my Grove RT-60S. Radius was appx. 15 feet, well outside of the outriggers. I was rather surprised to see that during that pick (unloadin a machine from truck), the crane did not budge even a tiny bit. It was that moment that really engendered a lot of trust into this crane and its charts.
Yeah Knepptune , that's pretty interesting looking at different crane companies marketing techniques over the years . That Terex 340-1XL looks like an all around winner for smaller everyday jobs . http://www.terex.com/cranes/en/idc0...b/@cra/documents/web_content/ucm02_047864.pdf I get what your saying about the gut check when lifting to full capacity with the Terex This don't feel rite Had my TM 250 Grove get that funky feel about it ," one outrigger getting light" . You know right away We were doing multiple pick's on a job site & customer needed one last item set . I reached out & tried it then backed off & moved the crane closer for better advantage . I would like to find a first generation Grove 45 ton . TM 425T , What a contrast in 50 some years of engineering . Big old hog .... http://www.manitowoccranes.com/~/me...rrent Product Files/TM425/TM425T-Brochure.pdf
now that we've gotten completely off topic if I ever come across one off those 425s I'll get a hold of you. I've never seen one of those advertised or anything. But for a taxi crane this 500e-2 sure would look good in our yard. http://m.machinerytrader.com/ListingDetail/Index?industryName=MAT&listingId=11443229&categoryId=1016
Stay inside the load chart ichudov and the old Grove won't budge .
Yeah , The TM425T is a tough find . Last time I saw one on machinery trader it was in Puerto Rico . One in Mexico . http://www.metlag.com/maquinaria/articulo.php?id=216 I think it's claim to fame was largest hydro truck crane when it rolled off the assembly line in the mid 1960's. Agree Knepptune , That Grove 500E-2 looks like a champ for all around use .
Looks like it sold today . http://www.purplewave.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?151230/I6310/2
Yup, probably not a bad price if it was in as nice a shape as it looked.
Funny how people see things so differently. I couldn't believe they got that out of it. May have some life left but I'd hate to try to keep that thing going. Was kinda surprised to see an old Chevy 6.2 engine in the upper. I've never seen one off those in an industrial application.
Very true. But I'd hate to even know what a new one goes for......
Good eye Knepptune . I was also a little surprised to see the 1980's GM 6.2 in the house unit . Trans plant at some point in time I reckon ? At least the truck had the big cam cummins power plant . Myself , I don't worry to much over the engines & powertrain on something like that . Would look close at the structural end like swing bearing , boom , superstructure frame ,outriggers, ect . Might be a good deal for someone with ability to make repairs , or a nightmare for another who wants a turn key rig ready to go to a job .
https://old.cranenetwork.com/details?id=208452&pn=cranes I know this crane is half the country away from you but this seems like a bargain. There's a local company that has one of these and they still use it quite a bit. Seems like a solid model.