We’re looking at getting a new T880 tractor. Deciding whether to go with an already built T880 with an 18 speed endurant, or if we should order a T880 with a 4500rds Allison. Both will be set up at 2050 torque. Primarily will be hauling lowboy, demo, or garbage, but mostly lowboy. Heaviest load it’ll be carrying is around 80,000 lbs, maybe up to 100,000 lbs, but that would be very rare. We have one tractor in the fleet with an Ultrashift, which we don’t like and has made me nervous to run more automated trannys, then we have one new T880 with the 18 speed endurant, which so far we are happy with (but it’s only been a few months). The rest of the fleet have the Allison’s, which I love. Out of 7 quads and 1 tractor with the Allison’s, only 1 or 2 needed minor work done to it over the past 5 years. And we have an Allison shop right down the road from our shop. Not having to replace automated clutches every few years is a huge plus towards the Allison also. My biggest deciding factor is whether the Allison will handle those heavy of loads frequently and if it can take the 2050 torque. Any advice is appreciated.
Allison all the way, you can't possibly buy a better transmission. What ever you do don't buy any AMT, that Ultrashift was a waste. If it doesn't have a torque converter it isn't worth owning. Allison gets 5 thumbs up.
X2 on Allison. What transmission does the Army use in the trucks that move an M1 Abrams tank?
Probably the lowest bidder. But I still like Allison as well. Despite the fact that they are full of clutches, they normally last a lifetime without having to be opened up.
Not much to complain about with an 4500RDS. Specing a new rig, just pay attention to rear axle ratios. What ratio are you using now? Just curious. I’ve had close calls with Kenworth specing a different ratio, maybe less than optimum, vs what Allison recommended. Just saying there is some art involved vs specing for an Eaton. But, my application is often slow speed. I’m slow speed.
Well Allison is the lowest bidder.
Do what heavy haulers are doing, 4 speed aux. transmission or 2 speed rear ends.
Heavy haul is certainly an ambiguous term. The latest version of the 49X’s have 4.10’s and Eaton RTLO22918B’s. That’s a far cry from the traditional T800 wide nose Tri-drives with 4.83’s . Alas, those are the times we live in. What’s a gurl to do? KDub doesn’t build heavy spec tractors anymore.
Heavy Haul Thread on a Friday Night! Only thing better than throwing them sticks is talking about throwing sticks. I would totally be hauling the mail right now, but I’m out of hours.
On the bright side, with the 49X & DD16, you can spend your time driving instead of the shop, fixing the aftertreatment on the X15. Or, replacing engine blocks.
I have had that experience also. No need for a vocational truck with a smaller engine to come with an axle ratio that puts it at 1500 RPM at 65 MPH when the engine likes it just fine to run 1800, even 1900 RPM. And the truck even gets up to 65 mph once or twice a week maybe. Could have had a lower axle ratio for maneuvering and hill climbing but that's what they put in it. It's like they forgot that the Allison has a 0.65 top gear OD ratio. Also there are options in the torque converter, fluid multiplication department, but I never got to learn about that. There was a guru at the Allison dealer that knew all this stuff but he probably is long since retired now. Also the electronic shift program these things would deliver with was terrible, did not match the engine torque at all. He would come out with his laptop and put in a proper program so it would not upshift on a hill if it could not pull the next gear, etc. Once he did that, the decisions the transmission made were never in question, it really knew just what to do.
Well said. When I was in the middle of purchasing all those new trucks, I had a meeting with the Allison Tech Dept. and MHC Kenworth, and Allison came up with some programming that solved my shift problem. Much like you were experiencing. I was buying from MHC. My local dealer was transitioning to Pape’ and sales support was just not there yet. Today, Pape’ is doing good. I did like the fact MHC would pre-deliver the new chassis before going to the upfitter. They would actually shoot some grease in the zeros and find the little issues. PACCAR was not greasing the u-joints at the factory. A new chassis would not make it half way to Alaska without a driveline repair. Oh’ and PACCAR would fill the washer reservoir with water & soap. By the time I got it, the reservoirs would be frozen and cracked.
Way less quality control issues with the Sainte-Thérèse trucks. Those French speaking Canuks can build trucks. Except they use those goofy square drive Robertson screws on everything. Who even has the proper bits? Let’s make it difficult for America. Let’s use this proprietary screw that no other country in the world uses. Oh’ and let’s pour gravy on these perfectly good French fries.
I was with you until you got to the gravy on fries. Those are pretty good just don't forget the shredded cheese!
You hit the jackpot Hunter013 with this question, normally your lucky to get 2 replies. No one wants to shift anymore is the end result.
I know I don't. For what I need a truck to do Allison is the best solution. Couldn't care less about being a "real trucker".
There are a lot of things you can do with an automatic that can't be done with a manual. Upshifting on a steep uphill is one of them. Downshifting on a downgrade with the Jakes running is another. Both come in handy a lot in the real world in steep terrain.
There is a learning curve to them and some cool features that are not apparent to the casual user.
I've had some die hard manual fans complain about the idea of using the shift selector. They say if it's automatic it should be set and forget. But it is still way easier to push buttons than to have to match every gear, and like you say, some things that you have to think about. One silly thing that gets me, you see people especially in reverse going downhill slow with the brakes on hard locking up the front tires in mud. Just let it coast back in reverse, in fact sometimes leave it in forward and let the converter provide the braking, so the fronts can almost just freewheel.
For sure. Lots of our old -school manual drivers would complain about the Allison’s, at first. Six months later, no more complaints.
Probably the only bidder
Regardless the Allison is the best choice for the Army.
I don't want to shift anymore either.
Truth of the matter is, whether AMT or Allison, it's more popular today than ever- for one reason, can't find drivers. That is the main issue, on road or off.
Heck I can't find drivers for a pickup
And after some begging by farmer I drove for the last two years hauling grain, I ended up helping him this year too. Found he tested three and failed instantly and these guys were all above 50, one was 65.
I dislike the annual road test ride along with the safety guy as much as a colonoscopy.
I use to {about 12 years ago} give driving tests for the company. At that time trucks were all 550 HP Cat/Cummins with 13's. After walk around and in the cab, I always told the possible new hire { Drive the way you normally would, if you don't use a clutch---then don't}.
I’m shifted out. Drove manual transmissions from my teenage years into my 40s. I’m good. Push the “D” and mash the throttle. I’m on my way home.
Really in the end it's all about the big easy, in the future humans will be born with a thumb and forefinger.
Im moreless there at 28 i never sit in the same truck long enough to get good till i switch seats.
Last three years hauling grain from field, this year 4 trucks, no engine same, all different configuration. A 10 spd, two 13 spds and a 15 spd, every trip a different truck, only so many drivers to go around. I started mid 70's driving FRTLNR COE an ex CF 1967 model 335-10spd pulling joints hauling fresh corn out of field at 90K gross, nothing but worn out junk. I was setting in a cocktail lounge having a beer being harassed about the job I had by three wanna be drivers. This old log truck driver setting on the other side of the three said--{You might want to stop and think about what you've said, anyone who can drive that crap can drive anything}. I bought him a beer and left with a smile.
Same here, although I still like a manual in my toys. There's nothing else quite like a healthy V8 and ripping 2nd at 6 grand....
Had an '01 BMW M3 with inline 6 and 6sp. Man I miss that car..
Is is like a Check ride ?
Had a 540i6, that was fun
One point of a Manual, doubt will/can ever be stolen these days.