so been busy with the business already have been making more than last year. I've been contacted to do a french drain for a customer in what id call a higher-end neighborhood the guy has pooling in the back yard it's towards his patio coming off a hill. its 310 feet from the start of the problem to where the drain needs to come out. its a tight space and I really need a micro excavator and a little dingo for the gravel. the drain will have 5 catch basins at his request each 25 feet apart and the pipe will be wrapped in fabric. so i got about 1k in for pipe, catch basins, and the fabric then the gravel i did the math i need 8 yards of it, and priced out that would be 11.2 tons of gravel which will cost right around 1k. the local rental has a u17 and a dingo so imma adding those rental costs in which is about 1k. then my labor rate is 50 an hour i figured 8 hours which is 500 then a daily rate for the machines would be 1200. i figured after permits and fees and everything else it put my price right at 6k. i just wanna know if that sounds right or if I'm way off because I'm honestly just thinking about passing on this one and calling a buddy and let his company come do it for the guy.
Eight times fifty is four hundred...
$1,000 for gravel is awfully expensive stuff. Whoever is selling you gravel at $100 a ton is ripping you off by about 3-4x.
Your labor rate is to cheap in my opinion should be up towards 70 an hour and you probably have more than one day involved and you didn't include a mobilization
I'd agree with cosmaar1, I've gotten several gravel shipments lately in the 100,000 lb. range and it's been in the neighborhood of 1200-1500 bucks.
this is why I have people double-check my math my girlfriend said the same thing this morning.
the gravel is actually like 700 for gravel then the delivery where its coming from they charge 80 dollars flat fee then 3 dollars a mile it came out to 875 but I just rounded up
girlfriend also said the same thing that my labor rate was too cheap and think so? if I rent a 302 and a dingo I figured an 8-10 hour day but two days would definitely be better and what do you charge for mobilization?
this is all pea gravel a little higher but might get the math going for 57 stone because that would work just as good and I can get it way cheaper
Can you waste the material you dig out on site? If you are putting 12 ton of material in, you have to take that out plus the pipe, so if you can't lose it on site, you will have to haul it away. If it is in a high end neighborhood, what about finishing? Is it a nice lawn, are you going to have to re-sod? Perhaps you can rent a sod cutter and lay it back down. Are you going to cover the stone around the pipe in fabric, to keep the fines from washing into the drain? Did you add 10% to your materials for waste?
That's very, very cheap compared to here. Average price per TN delivered is +$25 per ton. Carolina check and confirm your pipe prices. HDPE (ADS) pricing is all over the place. I've got a couple more thoughts but gotta run at the moment.
We somehow lucked out and found what seems to be a high-volume rock place, I think usually used for commercial jobs, and it sounds like they slow down in the winter and have been, seemingly, thrilled with our orders. It could also be because my wife places those orders and they like to talk to her, not sure!
#1 base stone for me is $27 per ton delivered. They can haul 24 ton at a time, so somewhere around $650. Still the price you are quoting is crazy high. quarry is about 50 min away.
That *sounds* like a $10,000 job to me.
Depends where the dirt is going, if it has to be hauled out, that sounds like 2-3 day job to me getting all the dirt out and rock in for 2 guys. Either way, I would price your own labour at least $1k a day after the equipment rentals and fuel and you have to make money on all the material too. I would say $10k sounds about right.
OP, you are just getting going. Until you get a handle on this, bid it higher. Somebody with a really sharp pencil and lots of experience might underbid you, and that is OK. Don't lose money trying to buy work. It hurts everybody, especially you.
Totally agree, a job like this is fairly easy to bid and the worst thing you should be off on is your time at least but still makes no sense to go really low. Also in the event you don't get it, I would ask what the price was of whoever did that way you know. I'd rather not get a job because I was too expensive then get a job because I was too cheap. Just because someone is cheaper doesn't mean you bid too high, there's plenty of guys around willing to work for little to nothing but I know i'm not one of them. I tell people if I can't make $1k for a 8 hour day regardless of what i'm doing i'm not doing it, I don't care if i'm running rented equipment, that's what my time is worth. Most days I make far more then that, but that's the minimum for me.
they have a few low spots I can keep the dirt at and the finishing I told him I don't do sod I haven't been able to figure it out yet anything I advertise I have done in my own yard to ensure that I can do it before I advertise it. i can do seed and straw though and yes imma dig the trench lay a bae of stone in the fabric pipe done then cover with stone then wrap it then cover then fill it back
yeah I been calling today everything is a pain
I actually sent him about 4 other companies and told him I'm still working on my price I'm hoping to god one of the other ones will do it
im tempted to just send that number
that's all great advise
If you can dig 310 ft of french drain properly sloped, get rid of the dirt, put in fabric, rock and pipe in one day you a bad dude! Probably more like a 3-4 day job.
yeah. that is how I looked at it too. 3 days counting mobe day and cleanup.
I might have to dig another one at my house and see how long It takes the one i did at the house was only like 50 ft
Dont do that there unsubstantiated numbers that's worse than bidding low that's gambling do the math and figure it out or dont give a number
Why don’t you just turn the job down? You are making it seem like your forced to put in a bid. Turn it down before you ruin your company and get sued.
When people ask me to give them a rough quote on french drains with out checking the site or doing any grade measurements I tell them "about $30 per foot".
I would agree you are seriously underbid. There is no way all that is happening in one day. You would be over time on your rentals for sure at your numbers, then you are not even working for free but your paying to complete the project. I would not let the job go however, pretty simple, I wouldn't have sent him 4 other companies that could do it, but that is just me. Take some of the advice you have gotten and go get the job. That is why your in the business.
I sent my buddy over he does this work all the time he has a micro and a dingo already. i asked him what he bid it at he told me 8456.78
sent my buddy he went and gave his bid
i think ill end up passing this one i need to buy equipment at least a dingo so i can cut down on rentals i been renting all sorts of equipment since damn January and i need to buy something
My philosophy as well. If my monthly or sometimes yearly rental costs come close to a monthly payment then I'll buy it. Just bought a hammer for our 305E, just wasn't going to rent again and have several site demo jobs coming up where it will come in handy. The hammer was $9800 with pins and Cat is running 24 months 0% on attachments so the monthly payment is $400 and change. No brainer for us. Same way with the 305E. It's roughly $1200 a week to rent one and we were renting one 1-2 weeks every other month. Bought one for $54K, 3.8% for 48 months is $1200 and change per month. No brainer - we've put 300 hours on it since we bought it last June. So what type of equipment have you been regularly renting and how much do you spend on rental monthly and yearly?
so since really November I've rented a dingo about 8 time my local rental yard cost me 300 dollars a day if I do it for a week its 1k so on a dingo I've spent about 7k on rental I've rented a cat 259 skid steer was worn out junk ended up breaking on the site had to have them come get it dint cost me anything since it broke down two hours after I got it. but I've been renting a Kubota svl75 about 6 times since November each week and it cost me 6k in rental had it for a week each time. rented a wide range of excavators had a u17 rented a u25 rented a kx121 rented then had a 305 rented and a 302 had a tb235 rented also. i know I need to buy an excavator but I've rented the small 17hp power ones then the 40hp then 20-24hp ones and I don't know which size would really be best to go with first. because well things are expensive and I don't wanna go deep into debt.
My suggestion would be to list the type and size machine and how much $$ you spent in rental over the last year. Trying to figure out the right size machine to purchase is the toughest part even for us seasoned contractors.
yes, and I disagree about buying in 2022. That is not enough history to base a decision on, just starting out. You can make rentals work for any job. That way you don't take the hit on new iron depreciation or buy some bucket of used question marks, only to find you chose incorrectly.
I wouldn't not bid jobs because you have to rent, just price it for what you need for it to be profitable, if you get it great if not it is what it is. I would be very careful buying right now, depreciation will be huge in the next bit. I am going the opposite way if I can get a crazy price i'm selling my CTL, 3.5 years owning i've put 550 hours on it, it's cheaper to rent, also that it spend 4-5 months in the winter at my acreage for snow removal and i'm selling it. If I get $40k for it, and spend $5k a year in rentals just having that cash to make a return on will cover a ton of the rental costs, and no repair costs. With a rental you also know what your costs will be, if it breaks down worse case is a bit of lost time but no repairs to factor in compared to owning. Now if you're really busy and renting the same thing a ton then it probably make sense to buy it.
I picked up our new 35G in 8/2020, and just got the first 500 hour on it. It is working about 320 hours a year. I will ask what the payment is to look that over.
REMEMBER: I NEVER lost money on a job I didn't get
While I am not advocating taking everything that comes across the desk, but some business risk is part of the profession, at least in my view. Pushing yourself and your capability, in a REASONABLE way, results in growth. While you wont lose money on a job you never got, you wont MAKE money on jobs you didn't take. Both sayings have a place, its all about balance.
Both these statements are so true. It's the conundrum of being a small business owner. If you're too scared to take on any risk then the reward will be paltry. On the flip side if you throw caution to the wind and take the bull by the entire horns you can end up dead broke. The art of being successful in a small business is finding the balance. And luck - LOTS of luck! Here's my Fathers favorite saying - "I'd rather be lucky than good." Advice given on HEF is worth every penny paid for it - Your milage may vary.
really its the whole excavator that's killing me one week a 305 is the right size the next I'm in a gated backyard with a u17 taken out dead shrubs
the dingo I'm more then likely to buy one honestly because I can use it for mulch jobs and a lot of other stuff that one I'm not afraid to buy because if the year keeps going how its going ill spend enough renting one I could of bought one
I went and priced 3 jobs two mulch and one backyard repair those i can price right make money I'm not afraid of those
funny think is my girlfriend has been telling me to raise my labor rate so today her boss called me to do his property with mulch and rock. so I raised my labor rate because it was the first of the day now my girlfriends seems to be annoyed I took her advise on her boss for rasing prices
I'm new too. I'm ( hopefully) finishing up a job tomorrow that I quoted based on 40 hours as the worst case, and I reached that many hours on Saturday. It's okay because I own my machines, so I'm basically mostly out a little time. I'll still make some money. My point is this. That DOES NOT sound like a one day job. Getting this wrong is a big problem if you are renting machines! Take that fwiw, but you need to think about the worse case scenario (within reason) and quote from that. You don't want to come out of pocket to do a job. It's so easy to say "I can do this in that amount of time"... A day is not a lot of time. Good luck! I say don't be discouraged by this thread, just go through the numbers again.