hey everyone. new on here. my dad and i just bought a 416c. we have a trucking business that has been in the family for 77 years now, started by my great g-pa. we have cat 966c and 950b loaders, and a case 570mxt with a 3-pt blade on the back. we decided that we need to diversify a little bit, hence the purchase of a backhoe to get to my point, i hope it's not to late to be asking this lol, but anyone with a 416c let me hear the pros and cons. we have a friend that farms that has one that could be called a sister to the one we purchased. 4-in-1 front bucket, 24" bucket, 48" smooth. i checked his over and ran it. love it!! i have ran case with pilot controls and i like the cat controls better, even tho its just the two sticks - same difference. also anyone knowing where the best place to find nice used buckets?? in ohio lol?? 12" or 18"? Thanks for any help!!
I would Google "backhoe buckets for sale" I did find these two links, but I suspect you need to find one closer to you. http://www.hunttractor.com/ http://for-sale.yakaz.com/backhoe-buckets-for-sale I do not know if buckets are interchangeable for different machines or not.
thanks bowen for the response..i have tried doing that but as you say i need to find one closer to me
I don't know about places in Ohio but you could start with your Cat dealer. They should have a selection of used buckets. The Cat buckets I have bought have been awesome quality. These days shipping is not very expensive. I suggest that you call Deloss in CA (Google them). They have an incredible selection and are great to work with. I must admit that I do not have Cat buckets for my 416C but I have bought a couple for my 315 CL. The reason I don't have Cat buckets on my 416 is not a quality thing but because I don't prefer the shape of the Cat buckets for backhoe work. They, like most all MFRs, employ a short lip, deep heel design. I had my (5) buckets custom made by Woods/Gannon (8", 12", 18", 24", & 36") with a low profile/shallow heel and a long lip design. I have over 12,000 hours on my 416C (can be seen here: post #484). It is, by far, the best hoe I have ever owned or ran. A lot of the pros and cons I can think of may be unique to my machine, and others that are set up the same (they can be equipped in many different configurations, each one with its own pros and cons). Mine is a '97 model (first year) 4x4, 4-in-1, (3) small chin weights, extendable dipper. Can you provide more info on how yours is set up?
i found a 12" bucket today actually haha but thanks anyway. its a 2000 model 4x4, 4-in-1, extend-a-hoe, quick detach rear w/ a 24" tooth and a 48" ditch bucket. to be honest with you i actually do not have it yet..its still out in illinois..waiting for things to slow down a bit with the business to go pick it up. next week i'll definately have it tho
How many hours are on it?
3100 hrs. a township south of champaign, ill bought it brand new..so it has not been abused by anyone and everyone. they are buying a brand new 420e
3,100 hours is great. I've never quite understood why governments seem to be willing to buy new machines, under utilize them and then sell them with most of the remaining life left unused. Seems wasteful. As I said mine is similarly equiped to yours. I have three of the smaller chin weights up front. I have found that this set up (on a 4x4 w/ 4-in-1 bucket) makes the best balanced backhoe. On mine the loader works very well but the self leveler can be a weak link and requires perfect adjustment (very finicky). I have not had mine adjusted but have found a way to compenstae for the machines deficiency. The symptom is jerky leveling just before the loader reaches the top of the truck side rail (if truck loading). The bucket may jerk enough to spill. This makes a mess and can be hard on your hood. To compensate for this I have found that the loader control lever can be held to the right (like you are trying to dump) while raising. You will have to experiment with how far you hold it to the right. You are not necessarily trying to open the valve but you are certainly on the edge. It seems as though there is some sort of hitch in the mechanism and by holding the lever to the right you effectively help ease it through the hitch. I also re-routed the hoses that are on the outside of the dipper. I used to do some deep work with a 12" bucket and the way they were installed at the factory had them too wide to fit in the trench. Really, all I did was to flip over the retaining loops so that they held the hoses closer to the dipper. The other owner modification I did was to the back window. I removed the sealing lip (the piece of clear silicon like seal between the two rear windows) from the upper window to the lower window. I did this because the way that Cat had it would pull dirt and, sometimes water, into the cab when you slid the window back down. I had to make additional notches in the upper window frame so that the lower window would stay raised. The brakes seem to last about 5,000 hours. I've done them myself both times. It's a big job but I saved about $4,000 each time. Watch for cracks on the loader torque tubes (right at the weld where each end attaches to the loader arms). I also suggest that you keep an eye on the head glands of the backhoe cylinders, especially the (2) swing cylinders. Early models had a tendancy to back out. If you keep an eye on them you can catch them before they back out far enough to cause any problems. If you wait to long the cylinder will need repacking. I also had one of the swing cylinder pistons come loose. That requires swing cylinder dis-assembly to repair, and must be done by professionals unless you have access to a torque multiplier (takes over 1,000 ft. pds of torque). The last thing about the swing cylinders is that they may begin to leak at the rod end. If you look closely you will see that the threads, that hold the head gland in place are, welded into the end of the barrell. Somehow hydraulic oil can cut a pth through and cause a leak. It will appear to be a hair line crack of about a 1/4" long. Some will try to get you to replace the rod but I would try to have it welded first. I have had it done successfully and it can be done with the cylinder still on the machine (depending upon the location of the leak). The head gland will have to be pulled out of the rod though or the heat will ruin the seals. There was a bulletin on the boom cracking. Mine was replaced by Cat, free of charge, at 4,990 hours. It developed (2) cracks at the top of the boom tower (where the curl and boom rams mount above the "Cat" logo on the boom). If the boom is fully raised there is a small "H" shaped gussett that can be viewed from the operators seat. The cracks were on this gussett. I was going to repair myself but heard of the bulletin while trick or treating with my youngest son. I ran into a service rep from my local dealership and he mentioned the bulletin. He asked how my machine was doing and I mentioned the cracks. It was pure luck as Cat would replace at 100% if less than 5,000 hours. More than 5,000 hours and Cat would pay for only 50%. I had 4,990 hours when I talked to the rep that halloween night. I think Cat had these items addressed on later models. I had a $2 snap ring break on the all wheel drive shaft, inside the tranny, and that was bad. The machine had about 6,000 hours at that time. Unfortunately the new design of the C model trans required R&R of the whole tranny to repair. The internal damage was only (2) gears and said snap ring. Cost was +/- $6k for Cat to repair. On the bright side they said that there was no other signs of wear inside. Not even in the clutch packs (I always use first gear when filling the bucket). The transmission has lasted another 6,000 hours so far. The irony is that if the same thing had happened to my B model the AWD shaft can be accessed from the outside of the tranny. It is mounted sort of like a PTO and could have been rpaired wthou removal and disassembly of the transmission. So much for "new and improved". I have changed engine oil, oil, fuel, and air filters at 250 hours since new. I now it sounds a like I have only negative comments but the pros are too numerous to mention. I have been very happy with this machine and, for me, it has set a very high benchmark that all other machines will have a tough time to match. I would be happy to address any specific questions you amy have.
thanks dgodgr! you wrote me a whole chapter :notworthy governments do it because they get the money to do it!! lol mine has the three weights up front too..im not sure if they are the small ones tho, im assuming that they are. i understand what you mean about the jerky-ness..our case 570mxt has the same problem..it does self-level it out as you raise the bucket up but it is jerky. i will definately keep the moving-to-right as moving up in mind!! ill have to check the hoses out on the dipper..wouldn't be good going down into a trench and blowing a hose! :Banghead don't blame you one bit on the brake job!!! $8k seems like alot of money just to stop ill for sure keep an eye on the cylinders you mentioned. sounds like you lucked out on the boom cracking! 11 more hours and you would have had to split the bill..ouch for CAT! hehe hopefully i never have the snap ring problem..doesn't sound to fun to deal with! they should have just left the awd shaft alone when making the c model. i will find out tomorrow when i will getting the machine, once i do ill let you know what i think of it..and if i have any questions. Thanks!
Many dealers order the the machines with (3) chin weights. At least the ones that are equipped with the extendable dippers. That being said, most of them have the two smaller ones on top of the larger one. The larger one can be easily recognized as it sticks out, on the front and the sides, from the smaller ones. I asked my dealer to replace it with a third smaller one becuase I don't feel as though it's required if you have 4x4 and 4-in-1, plus I did not like the way it stuck out front with now visibility to it. That design lends itself to damaged rims and tool boxes on the dump trucks that you may load.
Hey I run case backhoes, but I've heard good things about cat backhoes. Cats are slow as hell on the road, but it can dig a lot more in a dirt pile with the front bucket than a case could. My time will come to test out a Cat, so then I can compare it with Case. Still in all I think Case is the Wolrdwide leader in their backhoes, espically with the new n series. Have fun with the kitty cat.
Please re-read this post. It will make more sense now that I have corrected a few mis-used terms.
Ask your dealer to check on market shares. Cat had been catching up since the introduction of their backhoe line. Cat and Case have been neck and neck, both taking the lead in sales for the year. You may be correct on world wide sales as I think the info I heard was for US sales. It was over 13 years ago when I heard about Cat taking the lead in anual sales. I would be interested to know if they are still close and who is on top. Anybody have current data? Please post or start a new thread (don't want to hijack this one).
cat and case Ya true Case and Cat are pretty good machines. I hope to test a Cat one day, but as always I'm sticking with case.
Well thats easy. Just call the nearest Cat dealer. I'm quite sure he would be willing to set up a demo.
i have ran both a case 580 and 590 super m with pilot controls. anything with pilot controls is very nice . i never ran a cat with pilot controls, just the two sticks..same damn thing just different lol. in my own opinion cat is ahead of case..cat just seems to run a lot smoother and has more digging power in the front AND back..let me know what ya think
If you want to run a powerfull machine, get in a new holland 115B, they are animals... probably too much power.
i haven't seen one of those around..they're extinct to our area lol
backhoes Ya your probably right, I should do that. What type of backhoes do you run?
kitty cat I here KTS_416C, people have told me that the kitty cats of more digger power in the front when your going into a pile. I've also heard though that there slow on the road, but that doesn't matter. I've ran case all my life and I never have a problem with them, but I will compare cat with case someday.
Running a 2000 416C here. Only complaint is the struts for the back window dont last very long at all. Then the window hangs low and I bang my head on it all the time.Great machine for snow. Plow with a 12ft pusher and it is a well balanced unit. Starting to weep at the swing cylinders so I will have to look at them closer now with the info DGODGER shared. The front bucket also irratates me as it is narrower than the wheels by about 6 in. Also the brakes are VERY loud. Overall a great machine to run.
That's odd about the bucket. My bucket is wider than the tires. Same goes for every one I have ever ran. I've had problems with the struts too but I just replace them. The rivots that hold that same window will wear out too. I replaced them with nuts and bolts. Have you replaced the oil in the rear diff.? Fresh oil at the suggested interval is key. In addition I recommend using Cat brand oil. It has a friction modifier that has to be added if using other oils (can be bought at New Holland dealers). This stuff is not necessary if you have the new upgraded Kevlar brake pads installed (put those in mine the last time I did the brakes). In fact, Cat recommends a different oil all together, in the rear diff, if you have the Kevlar pads. This is not exclusive to Cats. They are equipped with ZF rear ends and those are found on many machines (hence the availability of the friction modifier at Ford/New Holland dealers). Do you have the rear wheel spacers so that you can install chains with out rubbing the fenders?
Weighing scales[/URL] for industrial use
Is this the new form of SPAM?
Please don't respond to spammers. It makes it hard for us to clean up after them without messing up the continuity of threads.
Dont have spacers. Thought about chains but havent ever used them. Good info on the oil. thank you.
cats I guess, then overall cat, is good, but case is better I think, but apparently there both neck, and neck.
I have owned both, my first yers ago was a 580, and currently have a 2000 416 CIT. The 580 without question, would run circles around the cat roading it, I hear that the 5 speed tranny option is key with roading. Digging wise either front or rear bucket, no comparison. The 416 is a real monster. I was doing a couple test holes at my property trying to figure out where the shale ledge started and had the bucket in the "load" pin hole, couldn't get through the ground worth talking about. I switched the pin position and oh my Lord; I started tearing out the top layers in 3 and 4 foot square pieces. We only had about 6 inches of frost but made all the difference. The biggest thing I have noticed with the Cat -con wise, every place where a metal line ie: out rigger tube had a clamp on it, it has built rust. I have spent more time going back and forth to local cat dealer after that type of stuff than anything else.
Hello, new to forum. I have a Cat 416D that has 1200 hrs. and just this week the loader bucket would not tilt back (curl). I can find a spot when I move the boom slow and use the tilt also that it will slowly work for a second or two. All other hydraulics work fine, not low on fluid. Any thoughts? Thanks DWR1949
Test, New to forum
Test, new to forum.
I had a B model 426 that had a problem with the front hydraulics the first day I used it. I don't remember which function it was, maybe the clam shell, but it turned out to be a pin falling out of the mechanism at the loader control valve. Hopefully it will be something simple like that.
Hello, I am sorry for being a bit off subject & late to post but I am required to post three replies to existing threads before I can open my own thread. I am in dire need of wiring diagrams for Cat 416C, speciffically wiring diagram for forward/reverse shuttle valve Regards, Doug Reno
It looks like you now have (3) posts now, so it may not matter, but there is a test forum theat you can use to up your post count too. Someone here has what you need. Now that you have enough posts I recommend that you start a new thread and include your serial number. Even if you don't start a new thread the serial number will ensure that the schematic is right for your machine.