Hello everyone, This is my first thread and currently new to this site. I looking for some one who can point out some of pitfalls or items that are problems with the models I am looking at. some of the problems when shopping is trying the units under load, which does make it difficult to really know if a problem exist other than pushing yanking and kicking the tires... to check for worn pins other than going through the mechanical motions (Controls). The use is for personal but want to have something dependable. What I will be using this unit is to do some grading and clearing of some stumps trees and some large protruding rocks (Wife wont allow me to use explosives) LOL.. So here is the info on what I have so far. I will try to attach some pics.... I have read through the information on this site on the models and manufactures and boy thier is a lot of choices... I am looking at the Case and Cat manufactures. Before I go on my limitation of knowledge of what to look for when buying a unit? I had looked at a site called Iorn Planet and some of the units come with a description check list which I thought was very good. I have a few photos to share on a couple of units and I hope someone can elighten me on what I need to check on these particular models. 2002 Case 580 M Turbo 2860hrs enclosed cab. ext hoe two buckets 4x4 for $36,000.00 decent shape I wish I could attached a few pictures. 2000 Cat 426c Turbo 4,800hrs enclosed cab. ext hoe one bucket has clam loader bucket 4x4. $33,900.00 I had test drove this unit everything to seem to be tight but again some areas there where no grease over run in the areas which tend to squirt out, so if dry then it would be tight untill greased? There where some fluid leaks under the motor and trans... This may be typical but again nothing squirting out.. The Backhoe had been runnning for 45 min so it had given some time for the hyd fluid to thin out. The seals around the cyl looked good but again some residue. The cyl shaft shown some signs of pitting but overall chrome look good. The other is "Blow by" I had checked this by pulling the dipstick out and feeling any pressure flow from the tube, this may not be the best method since I am sure some where there is a bypass valve or positive crank case vent with this year and model. The only thing is that no place to actually try out with a load!!! I drove it around 4x4 engages and that did work shifting worked all electrical gauges work. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you, NBO
Hello senior folks, I appologize to keep adding onto the other thread ealier as it takes about an hour to have the priviledge of posting and uploading images to this site. I want to thank the folks from my other messages and did not want to keep high jacking the original poster thread. Thank you, NBO
I can give you a few things to look for in loader backhoes you might find usefull. The best way to test a diesel engine is a cold start. You stated they had the machine running when you got there and that rings alarm bells for me. Did they have to use ether to start the engine? How much did it turn over before starting? How long before all the cylinders picked up and the engine ran smooth? All this tells me how good the cylinder compression is. Blow by on the engine has to be checked with a manometer or a gauge. Usually if I see lots of oil leaks, I'll break out the gauge to be sure. For the hydraulics, I stall a function over relief to warm the system and then look for leaks. Pick the loader up all the way and hold the bucket back for some time. This maxes out the relief valves and if there are any leaks, they will show. Also do the same for all the backhoe functions. You check the cylinder rods by feel. If you can feel a nick or blemish on the rod, it needs to be fixed. The transmissions can be tested by stalling out the torque converter. Hold the service brakes hard, put the transmission in third gear forward and max out the engine throttle. If the brakes won't hold the machine you should probably step away from that machine and look somewhere else. Watch the transmission temperature gauge to see how fast it rises. When it gets half way up the gauge, put the tranmission in neutral and see how fast it drops. It should take some time to rise the first time or two but should drop just as fast. If the machine is a four wheel drive I will use the loader and outriggers to pick the machine off the ground. Put the machine in four wheel and watch the front axle. I always check them in two wheel also. Many times they are stuck in four wheel and won't come out. To check the joints in the loader and backhoe you just push and pick on the ground to see the slop. The kingpost is the big problem on all backhoes so I usually concentrate some time looking at that. Extendahoes also have problems in the wear bars. I extend the stick all the way out and do the push and pick test. This should give you plenty to think about. Good luck!
Good info!!! Thanks for your input..... John, This is what I am looking for someone who knows what to look for and what you had explain are simple and good easy test's to verify!!! Straight to the point !!! This is a big help since my experience is very limited. I had to question as well why the unit was warm before I had arrived which rings alarms as well just like you said if they use ether meaning defective glow plugs or electrical circuitry issues!! One other question John as the models I had shown do you know of any specifics to look for on either of the models? I will be putting together my excel spread sheet "check list" with the information you had provided and once I create the check list I will upload to this site for others to use and maybe it can be edited by folks like yourself and passed on... Thank you for taking the time to respond and much appreciated... NBO
As for brand which one feels better to you while operating it--that makes a big difference.
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums socks! :drinkup
Socks, Thanks for the tip. With the various types of cotrols it is difficult to really know which that will work for the long haul. I like the clam type loader for the way you can convert from a bucket to a push blade and also a clamp. I am not to sure how much force it would have to pick up stumps or large rocks? I could see using this to pick up trees other than using chains to pickup by the loader hooks. I would like to make sure I get a dependable unit, after that the fit or comfort will have to come in second.. It is a big expense and I want to make sure I have my ducks in the row.. Thank you, NOB
I would never buy a backhoe without the 4in1 backhoe. You would really be suprised just how many uses it has and how you got by without before.
The 4n1 has plenty of clamping power. Enough to break a small tree and smack your brother in the head. It won't actually grab and pull out big stumps, but will easily hold them after you dig them out. The first time you clamp and pick up the last quarter bucket full that would normally be shoveled by hand you'll be sold on it.
Thanks for the tips on the 4in1 bucket Thanks folks for the insight of the 4in1 bucket use and limitations. In the pictures I had posted and reading some of information in the forum, it seems I am pointing more to the CAT 426C unit. The concerns I have is some of the leaks around the transmission and engine oil pan area. Nothing real heavy leakage but enough to question. Would this be typical to see? There is no drive shaft cover in the front or back.. I have read that there was an option to have a cover? The other question is not having any manuals to look over is what is the expected inspections or maintenance that needs to be done.. The unit has a little over 4,000hrs so what I would like to know what does get replaced such as the normal maintenace items oils and filters. Does the breather filter get replaced or is it a re usable, brake adjustments or is there any inspection brake wear window to see the condition of the brake or parking brake cable adjustment? Thanks NOB
Hello, I have a question regarding a "Open" and "Closed" centered hydraulic circuits. I had read some information on the units I am looking at and have a question on what is condsidered the better of the two? My preference is control more than one movement while digging but when you run into a heavy load do you loose the power to the other part of the circuit and how foes this effect the pumps longevity? Thank you, NOB
Your search for a loader Dear NBO, I'm kind of responding to use my three threads to get "legal", but also to comment on your choice of equipment for the jobs you are wanting it to do. I was also looking to buy something to remove stumps etc. as I have about 60,000 recently cut cedars with stumps protruding 6 inches to 1 foot out of the ground. After asking people who knew, I settled on a track loader. I bought a new CAT 953D track loader with a four way bucket. While an excavator is definately the way to go for stumps only (since you are working away as opposed to right under you), the loader with a four way bucket is more versatile. As far as what to look for regarding mechanics, I'm a zero. Mike
CAT question Mike, I noticed your reply to NOB regarding a 4 in 1 bucket. I have a CAT 953D track loader and am looking for a trailer & dump truck to haul it. Do you transport your loader, and if so with what? My unit weighs about 38,000. I know I could buy a semi cab to pull the trailer, but, I have a fair amount of land & a dump truck would serve a better purpose. I think I need a larger dump truck-with tandum axles, but really don't have a clue. Any suggestions. By the way, I saw your web site. Nice. Especially the PC renew product. I have a couple of 4 wheelers that need help. Thanks. Mike T.
...deleted. Added response in other thread
From the pics, the Cat definitely looks like a "beefier" machine concerning the loader arms and backhow boom/arm. I think I've read where some people buy Case because it is a smaller machine, not less capable but physically smaller. Is this true?
I have a case 580F. It runs very slow. Could the power shuttle be the problem?
yes i just signed up and i'ld like to ask a question
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums lumarkarn! :drinkup
My new purchase Hello Folks, Well the searching and test driving the various backhoes has ended. I have learned a lot over the past month and I wanted to take the time to THANK ALL of the folks here who responded to my questions!!!! There where a lot of cons and pros and since I am not a equipment operator nor a contractor the information here had help me out tremendously... The decision was difficult and the pictures I had posted was a CASE 580 M Turbo. This was the unit I had purchased... I really wanted to have a 4 in 1 clamshell but with the units that had this either the cylinders where leaking or the pins where so loose and also a "City municiple" unit used for salt really took a toll on the metal on this backhoes..... I will be in the process of purchasing the 4 in 1 bucket later in the year, it will require some research on what controls and hydraulic controls will need to be purchased for this setup. I already had seen the parts layout on one of the CASE sites - Exploded parts view for the hand contol and going from a two spool valve to a three and of coarse there is no assembly kit spec out, just individual parts... I am hoping to find out a parted backhoe with the hand control assembly... I have found the 4 in 1 loader bucket from a company called "Rockland" and will need to see what this will cost for the most part the plumbimg out the lines would not be a problem or installing the controls unless the million parts are sold indiviualy.. Well I get the unit next friday, the paint like the CASE have been complaing about is a little weak... May need to take a paint chip to the paint store and have it check for the same color. I was supprised how clean the unit was and exspecially the exhaust system and turbo--hardley any rust around this area than I see with most.. I am thinking of installing a slip cover to cover the vertical pipe as a slip cover so water will deflect on this instead of running down the pipe into the engine compartment, may look funny but may keep the rust down to a min.. The deal was pretty good in my mind ($36,000), I got a one day demo before the purchase, fluids and filters replaced and thrown in a 12" bucket has a 24" already with all good teeth. Front loader bucket got a new cutting edge. The unit has a Air Ride seat and Radio.. No A/C which is no big deal "Means I will need to drink more beer" LOL and has a 900lb front weight and the front drive shaft protected with a shaft cover and flip over stab pads. Thanks, NOB
Sounds nice, I'm sure you will be very happy with it. One more note about the 4n1 bucket. We rented a machine with one once and they told us not to park it with any down pressure on the cutting edge at the end of the day. Supposedly it will cause the cylinders to start leaking if done a lot. I didn't know whether to believe him or not, but it's easy enough to do. Maybe that's why some of the ones you looked at leaked? So far ours hasn't developed any leaks after 1000 hours on an already used machine. Due to the opening on the bottom, the bucket doesn't collect water, so it doesn't hurt anything in that way either. Take it for what it's worth:beatsme
Welcome lumarkarn :drinkup :drinkup..a little late but it's the thought that counts . Your F got problems? Phil
I hope this helps...........Elast
Thanks for the heads up on the 4 in 1 bucket Hello Folks, Thanks for the heads up on the "do and dont's" for proper stoage and plumbing out the hydraulics. I really would hate to mess up the circuits. The handle control is a lot different than the CAT controls for the 4 in 1 bucket. The Case uses a wierd configuration of moving the stick left and right for the hydraulics on the bucket. I have seen there is a distribution block on the backside "attached" to the bucket. I will keep in mind about the hydraulic cylinders. I did notice a company JBL had made the bucket for Case but they been bought up by Case which makes it tough to go-around Case to buy the bucket. The other note is that the 580 M does not have Glow plugs which I am used too. Would I need the "Grid Heater" for this unit or a "Block Heater" ? I am not to sure which one would help on cold days for start up? Thank you, NOB
The blockheater is the best option. The grid heater is OK as long as you have the update wiring/relay package. If you can just plug in it is much better. You get some good cold where you live and will most likely have to plug in to start on the cold days even with a grid heater. Check out this link for a cheaper 4in1. I have used this bucket and it is OK. It is not heavy duty like the factory one but will serve the purpose if handled properly........... http://www.horstwelding.com/hla_items.php?id=8 It is easy to install with the hydraulic diverter as I described earlier. Installing this way eliminates the "wrist twist" handle assy. that the factory Case option has. Elast:canada