Ok in a nother thread I told you I played in the dirt. Here's the question how do you dig in straight line and get the correct fall in a ditch. Right or wrong here's what I did stretched a string the length of the dig and set the fall in the string. Then I tried to keep the same distance from the string and watched the bucket pins trying to keep the top one even with the string . Worked fairly well but there's got to be a better way or is there?
Essentially, without knowing it, you re-invented the wheel. As I understand it, long long ago, before there was such a thing as a laser, they used "batter boards" which were basically the same thing. They'd pull a string, set to match the required grade, and then measure down from it. If you want to get really primitive, you could get a ten foot 2X$ and a level, and check the amount of fall in the lenght of the board. The problem with that is you can compound your error too quickly--if you're 2 inches1 deep and you make that same mistake three times in a row, now you're 6 incehs deep. You could also set up a plain old transit or builder's level and figure out how much fall you'd have per foot of ditch, and then take sights at known distances from where you began. That would keep you on grade too. Then, of course, there are lasers these days. On edit: Watching the bucket pins was a good idea too. If I'm digging something that has to be a constant depth below grade, like a gas or electric line, rather than measuring constantly, I'll just note how that depth compares to the bucket pins, and dig to that depth.
A good way I was shown, is a pea level and a bow-rake.Use the rake to clean the ditch as you go,and the handle as a grade rod.Pick a point that won't move to shoot on,set the pea-gun on it -away you go.
I've never been afraid to sound stupid--What's a pea level, and a pea gun?
Pea Gun......
Tell us more about what the ditch is for...septic, storm drain??
And, of course, Countryboy has never been afraid to look stupid... :cool2
A lot of places still use batter boards and I use the heel of my boot if I don't have any paint to paint where I want to dig. When you’re using a large hoe and can't get the string close enough to level down. Set up 2 string lines at the same elevation 4' or more apart. Get a pole and put a mark or tape on how much cut you have from the string. Then just stick the pole in the trench and line up your mark with the 2 strings. I think by pea level he means one that clips on a string line I make more marks on mine so I had %s of fall. This was everyday stuff for me on the last company I worked for there to cheap to maintain there equipment there damn sure to cheap to buy a laser.
Welcome to HEF Digger242j! :drinkup Feel free to jump in where you like. (I shall turn the other cheek...) Wrenchbender, My granddad used a simular method when he was digging with his old Ford backhoe. This was over 10 years ago before lasers and GPS became popular with the smaller companies but I don't think he would of bought any of that anyway. It was simple but it worked well since all you had to have was some string and a couple stakes.
I can read your mind there, CB. You're thinking of a very deep hole.... :yup
A pea level is like a little telescope about six or seven inches long. When you look though it it has a bubble level on one side of the lens inside. You use it with a grade rod or a stick tape. Establish a bench mark to site to, then put the pea shooter against the tape and site to your bench mark. One man can check grade on any location or a trench.
Do you have a picture Lash? I searched for a real picture of one for a while but didn't find anything close. What you described doesn't bring anything to mind for me. Does it have other names? It sounds like a cool little piece to have. :yup
Wow, I had to go digging for it. I guess its called a hand level. The only thing I ever heard it called was a pea shooter or a pea level. They are really helpful for cutting slopes or tench grade if your working alone. A good one costs around a hundred bucks. You can get a cheapo for 30 or so maybe even cheaper. You get what you pay for though. This isn't a real good pic but you can see what one is.
Man, thats cool. Thanks for the effort. I tried everything to find one, with no luck. Now I gotta get one for the tool box. :thumbsup
Pea shooter works great for roughing things in, and scoping sites out when you dont want to drag a laser level around and set it up in 20 different spots. Or if your lazy engineer wont come out and give you your grade stakes for your cut/fill and slopes
Those levels were known as lock levels at one time,hand levels seems to be more common these days and they were used a lot before the laser appeared on the scene. I have bought probably a half dozen or so of them over the years,most over $100.00 and contrary to some here the cheaper ones were the best in my opinion.They are only accurate for 12 to 15 feet which is just fine if you know their limitations.The key is to transfer your elevations before you get out of range and they work fine.If you think that you can use one that magnifies,I bought a leitz that is 5 power thinking how smart I was and I would never miss the $160.00 because of the work it would save me transferring all those silly elevations,well........save your money.The rule still applies.12 to 15 feet is all that you can depend on with them and they work just fine if you remember that.I have dug 100's of cellar holes with them at the same percentage of error that I get with the laser. A line level and a hand level can get a lot of good work done,in many cases faster than using a laser when you consider the setup time.Ron G
Ok. Now I know exactly what we're talking about. I have one around here somewhere. I thought it was properly called a "lach" level (same pronunciation), but even google hasn't heard of one, so I could be mistaken. They take some practice, and a steady hand, to use well, but there are some of the really old guys (meaning older than me), who swear by them.
We call them lock levels. We used to use them to cut roads in to sub-grade.
Man o man that's a lot of info although I was lost at Pea gun :beatsme guess my Pea brain couldn't process that But it's cleared up now, the reason I asked is I'll be digging another trench about 150' long in the next few weeks. BTW these are for run off from gutters the lay of the land kinda dictates the amont of fall. The big reason for this is to direct the run off toward a pond. Digger and Countryboy ya'll play nice or you'll be put in time out lol BTW I guess that Pea Gun should be in the other thread (nick names)
We usually call those levels sight levels, I use a berger (under $20.00) I would definitely recommend it for gutter drain work, I also use it by balancing it on the end of a rake or shovel handle.
I googled it too this morning before I was fully awake Digger and I was surprised to see what I came up with. I remember making an association over the years to something else that would help me remember how to spell it and that something else was the lawn mower made by Locke that was pretty famous with the lawn care people in the past.I will post a link to get you started but the "older than me"guys did use them a lot and frankly I really don't care if I have a laser or not when I am digging to grade if I have to shoot my own grade anyway. If I have a helper I can sometimes hear the target beeping as the stick is moved around but helpers that can read a Locke level are pretty rare and I find it better to shoot my own grade. I use a 6' folding rule and set my target about 55" over finish grade so I don't have to bend over or stand on tippy toes to site through the hand level.I am 6' tall so that works out just nice for me.Ron G http://www.surveyhistory.org/instrument_makers_john_locke1.htm
We call them peep sights Kuker-Ranken makes the best ones ~$100, but they last a lot longer then the cheap ones. We use them for long shots, but you have to take your time and make sure your good and stable.
I guess you can't gauge cuts that are any deeper than you are tall, right?? At least from where your reference point is....
You can transfer elevations up or down in 6' increments accurately to get the BOE from the TOW markings the surveyors leave for you on the offsets. This method has worked very well for those of us that find ourselves working alone much of the time. If you can find a rod man and have a transit that would be the accepted way to go but unless you have other work for the helper most employers I have worked for would not provide one.Of course,the rotary beam has changed the playing field but also brings with it it's own set of problems,like "did the guy who used it last charge it up before they brought it out to you?" or are there any spare batteries in the case for the target? If you set up a self leveling laser in freezing weather and the tripod is on frozen ground you have to be sure it does not move after the sun comes up.A normal laser will stop when out of level but a self leveling one may not so you have to be aware.I am starting to sound like D8Bob here. Ron G
This definitely belongs in the "Equipment Names" thread! I'm really getting an education, here. Just Googled "hand level" and came up with: how to use http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~wd/courses/373F/notes/lec11lev.html lots of variations to buy http://www.mytoolstore.com/berger/handlev.html Berger http://www.cstsurvey.com/Products/OpticalLevel/HandLevels.htm Seco http://www.surveying.com/products/details.asp?prodID=4040-05 An antique K&E for sale http://www.gemmary.com/add/Add-0621.html even a cheapee Stanley from Home Depot http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100027560 That Google, they know how to find all kinds of stuff! L
Its a pea shooter and you guys can't stop my from calling it that! Oh, and I use the Seco one.