I have 1994 dump truck with a Cummins M11. I think the batteries may have froze. I brought them home and charged them overnight. I installed them and the truck started. Then it quit after about 40 seconds which is normal if it has been sitting. I got it started again which has always kept running except for today. It quit after about 20 seconds. It barely started a 3rd time but quit even faster. I think bad batteries are the problem that is also not allowing the alternator to work properly. Volt gauge in cab always read low but was especially low today. Do you think there could also be a problem with the alternator or something else?
If the charging voltage checks out on the alternator then it’s either the battery or the cables. Most likely battery though. how old are they?
The batteries are only about 4 years old but I think they might have froze. There is a battery disconnect switch but I think they still drain a little when sitting for several month's. We also had a very cold winter, might have set the record for most -40 days. I forgot to look if an engine shut down light came on. It did in the past when the coolant overflow tank was about a litre low. I was too weak to tilt the hood to see if there was something obvious like a fuel leak or something. The batteries were toast after 3 starts so I'm sure they are kaput. I came back early to see if the battery place that sells reconditioned batteries had a couple group 31's but they said to call Tue. morning (Mon. is a holiday)1st thing. They had 8 but hadn't checked them yet to see if they were good after reconditioning. They wouldn't hold a couple for me but will for a couple hours if I call Tue. I have had better success with reconditioned batteries than new ones. I don't use the truck enough to justify a couple $155 batteries if I can get some reconditioned ones for $55 exchange. I'll get new if it's the only option.
I'd probably just change them at that price and make sure they are getting charged
For rough figures, starting batteries will lose about 1% charge per day, even being completely disconnected. As well, freeze potential increases with state of discharge of batteries. 4yrs is a LONG time in extreme weather! If both batts are in series, you can test each one for voltage. 12.7-12.8 is healthy voltage. Below that is degraded. I have lost count/interest in how many batteries are destroyed annually by ignorance. The numbers (voltage) matter greatly. I've seen them boiled off in only a few hours. I also see batteries that never get back to a fully charged state, which will also ruin them. You want to make batteries last, you learn what it takes to make them happy. For most up there, 14.5-14.7V short term charge voltage, no prob. 13.8V float longer term charging like a boat or heavy equipment running nonstop.
I have other batteries that have sat just as long over the winter and no problems at all with them come spring. The reconditioned battery in my diesel tractor is at least 12 years old and still going strong. If there's no computer and the batteries are just for starting, they stay charged pretty well. My 2015 F150 is a different story. When I was in the hospital the battery was dead in about 2 month's. This happened a couple of times. Boosted the truck 1 time and put a charger on for a few hours the 2nd time. Battery didn't seem to be affected and the truck also has auto start/stop. The tow truck guy that boosted both our vehicles in extreme cold, and plugged in, said vehicles made since about 2012 should have a battery maintainer on them because the computers draw a little power even when the engine is off. On the dump truck maybe I need to completely disconnect the batteries. Maybe the electronics for the engine control still draws a little power???
Hopefully I can get a couple reconditioned batteries on Tuesday. For $55 it's a no brainer. They have a 1 year warranty and I've always had them last more than 5 years. I've had new batteries not last as long. The dump batteries are a prime example.
I'd say just keep buying batteries and guessing. I only have $50k worth of batteries on pallets looking at me.
Why not recondition the ones that are in it? Joe H
I don't know if they try to recondition customers bad batteries. I think my batteries froze. The truck is a former plow truck and still has a bunch of the electronic stuff in it. Some wires have been chopped off but I'm not sure if all of them were. I'm making an educated guess on why the batteries are bad. The truck ran great when I put those batteries in. I haven't used the truck much in the last 2 or 3 years. I think once I get it going snd ensure it's charging properly, I should start it and run it on a regular basis instead of just letting it sit for month's.
Back in high school I worked at a place that both built, and rebuilt batteries. The quality of the rebuild is dependent upon criteria used, and practiced during the rebuild. Sponge lead easy cleans up, and easily seams new material into the old plates if and when deteriorated. Rebuilt batteries in many cases are better than new as construction has changed to lessen costs of manufacture.
I have had great success with reconditioned batteries and I agree they can be better than new. I was especially happy the reconditioned 8D battery I got for my track loader was a Cat battery. Cat has higher standards to meet and their batteries typically last longer already.
If a truck dies after starting on it's own batteries after sitting overnight or longer, then the batteries are one of the last things I'd suspect. A bad alternator would be down on that list also, unless you know that the voltage drops below 12.0 before it dies. If it's a 12V truck, the simple test would be to leave jumper cables hooked up and see if it still dies. I'm not criticizing the rebuilt batteries at all. And the batteries could be weak, from age, or from freezing. But they could last you a couple more years of starting also, if they're kept disconnected or on a charger so they don't freeze, and have power to start.
I didn't have booster cables on the suspect frozen batteries. They barely started the truck a 3rd time. What I didn't remember to check was if I got an engine shut off warning. I've had this before because the coolant overflow tank was a little low. It causes the engine to quit after about 30 seconds. Hopefully I can get some reconditioned batteries, which I need anyways, and then do some more diagnostics like checking alternator output at the batteries.
voltage is everything, if the alternator can bring the voltage up to 13.5 or more, then it's up to the batteries to soak it up or not, but the alternator is clearly working, at least not causing the engine to die.
The last time I checked a couple years ago the voltage was 13.5 or 13.6 at the batteries but the voltage in the cab was lower. Sometimes the cab voltage went up a little higher and I wondered if this was the voltage regulator or if the ECM controls all the voltage.
AS FAR AS I KNOW: The voltage should be the same in the cab as the batteries. 13.5 is low for long term, it won't shut off an engine, but it won't charge fast enough for part time use. 14V or slightly lower was common for trucks or vehicles that typically ran for many hours at a time, to avoid overcharging the batteries. But 14.5 is better for "hobby" equipment that runs a half hour at a time typically. I have a one wire Delco Remy alternator that came from the factory with a square cap that you can lift off and rotate on the two terminals for four different voltage levels, for just that purpose, lower voltage for long hours in hot temps or higher voltage for short runs in cold temps and two intermediate voltages. I know nothing about the ECM in a 94, I'm just guessing that's old enough that the voltage regulator is in the alternator, and there is nothing separating the cab voltage. If there's not, I'd suspect a cab to chassis ground to test cab voltage, and the dying. A set of jumper cables from the engine to cab would do it for testing.
Easiest way is to disconnect batteries and test to see if they are good. If they are test the alternator. I can't remember exact voltage but check at idle and reved up and see what it's producing. If it's sitting long enough they seem to drain, i've had it with my dump truck but everything was still fine. New batteries are so cheap it's not worth fooling with imo, less then $100 at a place like FGI last time I bought.
I'm about 98% sure I know why the engine quit. I had some help to open the hood today and the 1st thing I noticed was the coolant overflow tank was low. There is a sensor that will cause the engine to shut off if it gets too low. I've experienced this in the past. I'm pretty confident once I get some decent batteries it will start and keep running.
Yeah, the battery place has some reconditioned batteries I'm headed off to get.
not sure but you might want to do a voltage drop on your cables.
I put the new batteries in and right away noticed it spun faster. Started right up and after a few seconds I upped the throttle to about 1400 rpm and was able to keep it going when it loses prime. It always does this if sitting overnight so I'm not real worried about that. Once it gets past the stumbling or is started a 2nd time it's good for the day to shut off and restart. Truck ran like a top for about an hour and a half with no real issues. I forgot to put a volt meter on the batteries. The cab gauge read below 12 volts but with the bad batteries was below 10 volts. I think the cab gauge may be faulty or something weird makes it read lower than it should. I recall checking alt. volts and battery volts in the past and they were 13.7 volts or somewhere there abouts. If I remember I'll put the volt meter on tomorrow. In the past when I used the truck more I figured it must be charging for the batteries to keep starting it with good cranking speed. It has daytime running lights that would also drain the batteries. They usually work but the odd time they've quit. I've read that was a somewhat common problem on L9000's and I'm not too concerned with. On another note I also picked up a battery for my Topkick water truck. A mechanic friend cleaned out the drivers side fuel tank and disconnected the passenger side tank last year because there was a lot of crap and rust plugging the fuel filter. It was a little more involved than just taking the fuel lines off because it's fuel injected and excess fuel normally goes back to the passenger tank. Anyway it started right up and ran great. I have an event at my track this weekend so it's really nice to have all my equipment running. Knock on wood.
I have 2 2300 IHs, and both of their dash gauges read lower than actual voltage at the batteries, but it's consistent, and has been for 20 yrs. I just bought a 1900 this year, and I think it does, too.
I was trying to beat the rain and never put the volt meter on the batteries. The cab gauge was reading 11 volts. I highly doubt 11 volts would start the truck. I'll try to remember to put the volt meter on tomorrow. I over did it in the skid steer today and my back is killing me. Hopefully it feels better tomorrow.
I finally remembered to put a volt meter on the 2 batteries hooked together and they were at 12.48 volts. The cab gauge showed around 11 volts. They started the truck twice as is the norm. When running the voltage stayed the same at idle. I didn't have a handy way to check at a higher RPM. I lifted the hood and had 14.06 volts when I grounded the stud on the alt. but noticed the wire coming off the stud was quite hot. I think the crimp connector on the wire might be suspect. Would a bad connector cause a complete loss of current in the wire and/or the wire to heat up? What else would cause the wire to heat up? I put a battery charger on the batteries for about an hour. When I took it off the battery voltage was 13.13 volts which seemed odd. I was wondering if the batteries were still warm or something from charging that they had a higher than usual voltage? Something odd is going on.
Resistance in a wire makes heat. I'd bet the wire is corroded and cracked within the first few inches of the alternator and cutting it back and adding an extension will eliminate the heat, and probably some problems. All of those voltages are expected with the circumstances. If you want to confirm the hot alternator wire is an issue, the next time you use it after sitting a while, check the battery voltage, then start it and check the battery voltage again, then check the voltage from the alternator stud to the positive battery post.
That hot area is a resistance. That means the voltage is lower on the other side of the resistance. Your batteries aren't seeing full alternator voltage during charging. Most alternators will be magnetic at the dust cap at the rear of the rotor when charging. More magnetic, more charging.
We sold batteries were i did work. It was a pain some times. Most people dont under stand a battery needs to be charged 8 to 12 hours on a trickle charger. I never had to buy a battery i just charged a core up that some one thought was bad.
If you have a good set of jumpers you can hook them from your alternator to your battery and see if voltage goes up.
I think I fixed the problem. Checked voltage at batteries before I did anything else and had 12.85 volts. Started truck and the cab gauge actually came up a little over 12 volts. Battery voltage was 13.13. I think the battery would charge intermittently. Took alternator wire off with suspect lug. It was very corroded and I was able to pull it off with some pliers. Cut wire back and crimped and soldered a new lug on. Started truck and cab gauge read about 12.5 volts. Checked battery voltage and it was 13.81 on the 2 batteries and the other single battery was 13.74. Got back in truck and cab gauge showed 13 volts. I was using the truck and it stayed at 13 volts for a while then came down a little but still well over 12 volts. Before it was very rare for it to show over 12 volts on the cab gauge. Now it shows 12.5 to 13 volts all the time when running. Key on not started shows 11 volts. Goes up to 12.5 or more the instant it's started. I think the cab gauge is about 1 volt less than the voltage at the batteries. Anyway I think it's fixed. I'll be using the truck a bunch so will monitor what the cab gauge reads. I'm sure it's charging when the gauge is over 12 volts and it was showing 12.5 volts or higher.
Used the truck today and had 12.5 to 13 volts on the cab gauge all the time so I think it's good.