Because another posted about installing cam bearings in a 3406 B Cat engine, I thought I would post this about installation. The Cat uses a cam bearing that has a groove machined into the outside diameter so oiling holes can be installed slightly off center of oil port in block and still be fine. Cummins is the opposite, the bearing has no groove, the groove is machined into cam journals. So when installing oil port holes need to be on the money, although the oil ports/rifles in block are larger, so there is leeway. The bearings are numbered to placement in the block, I index mark the block and bearing with a paint pen, double check alignment and drive them home. Below after installed, showing cam journal with groove and test fit. Cam fit perfect. * I am going to run a short thread while I build this engine, It might run a while because I'm in no hurry, and the guy who bought it is in no hurry either. When done it should produce 465 to 475 hp. *
I just noticed this thread. Very cool. What is the engine going into?
It's going to reside in a 1986 FLC. The cab and dash on this tractor is in real good condition, owner bought a used air ride for the rear of cab. In the future I will help him lengthen the frame and install Freightliner {Air Liner} suspension. He only paid $2,500 for it so he has allot or room for improvements. Funny part is he is a ex Cat truck/equip dealer mechanic, also taught diesel. He just doesn't want to do that type of work anymore-he farms. *
Since we're on the subject of ca m bearings I have the tool to install and remove small cam Cummins rearmost brg in frame . Not likely you'll need them but ya know where to find them
I had one of those, a farmer needed to use it, I gave it to him because I haven't done a small cam for years.
That truck must have run some pretty smooth roads or it had some sort of a suspension upgrade if the dash is still good!!!
Dash had a replacement done in 1995, but it also sat in covered area for 20 years.
My fond memory's of them is the nasty to get to bolt, that they should have changed after the very first engine. Yeah it wouldn't have been easy but nice.
I've been asked to explain Lower Press Fit Liners. It's not what most think. Below is a photo of naturally a counter bore machined for lower press fit liners. First off unlike people would think the lower sealing bore with the circle and line through it has nothing to do with LPF. The old upper press fit liners were held in-place in the counter bore where there is a arrow pointing down and the ledge of counter bore with just a blue line. * The area below the ledge is called the pilot bore. This area is machined so a .004 crush fit happens when liner is pressed into block-hence-lower press fit. The standard thickness of a standard or LPF liner flange is .352, here the counter ledge is machined to .373 to allow for a .020 liner shim. Now food for thought-a good auto machinist will cut to .373 not .372. because the shims used by Cummins marked .020 are actually .021. Every shim made for Cummins counter bores are always .001 over. The liner protrusion height for LPF is .004 to .007. Old upper press fit is .003 to .006. When done with this engine the liner height should run .006 across the 6 liners, because of all the machine work done to this block. *
I'm not a fan of power tools on gasket surfaces, especially the head and deck. Cummins not as fussy as Cat for protrusion, the difference from one head vs 3. Yeah nice to have them all the same. Sure lots of room for improvement on all the engines, but the cost and weight would be prohibitive.
Thank you
That deck had light rust from setting, so dusted with rolllock. It all depends on who is doing the cleaning. And I 've probably more than likely built more engines than you plus worked auto machine. If you don't have something positive to say--stay off the thread.
TS, was the thought behind the LPF to try to hold the liners more stable? I maybe remember a Cat mechanic saying the wear on the Cat blocks at the counter bore was the liner rocking side to side a fraction with each piston stroke. At rebuild, deeper counter bore and more shims to square it up again. Am I remembering right?
Really Cummins and Cat had the same idea with the shim, really because it's bronze/brass it is also used as a seal for the liner ledge. Holding the liner tight in the pilot bore area plus the use of shims from factory really put a end to fretting and counter bore wear. The 444 up came with LPF and shims, it's fairly rare to see a N14 with head gasket issues. IMO Cummins should have stuck with the N14, they had the bugs worked out, was a real good engine.
One thing that is often a thought is putting air to air-CAC on a PT-pressure timed 855. Not any real advantage, because of the pressure timed system, with a CAC the turbo lag in some cases causes a loss of horse power. * A guy that has done extensive dyno testing with a jacketed {coolant cooled} aftercooler and air to air has found a marked loss of hp. He timed a 625 CPL at a retarded .76 with 20% over fuel and injectors flowed to match pump rail with a N14 3804502 HT60 turbo and jacketed aftercooler, it produced 520 hp. With air to air it dropped to 495 hp. Now he was using a aftercooler for the old twin turbo 475, those were a high velocity aftercooler. He also used a standard aftercooler for a 625 CPL it still produced 510. * It takes a computer controlled fuel advance/retard to work for air to air on the 855. Fact.
I like a tread like this, wathching a pro in action is alway worth it.
I don't know about a pro-I just done allot them is all, maybe too many. Sometime I going to have to cut the cord.
That's a fact . . .
Hated cutting blocks when worked at Continental Rebuild, KNEW was last time those blocks could be used as when worn out were Junk. UPF was just becoming a thing as I worked there.
Because I'm not driving grain truck today {changing a few items on combine and moving equipment to new patch/plot to harvest dried peas will drive tomorrow}. I had time this morning to test fit liners. Protrusion specification for lower press fit is .004 to .007, and like I thought all came in at .006 to .0065 just where those should be. Bugged though-I can't find my accessory drive tool to remove splined drive hub, put it somewhere I wouldn't forget-now I forgot.
I'm glad the part time driving is working out. Looks like between that and the engine work you are staying busy. Probably a lot less wear and tear on the joints than doing truck/trailer tires/brakes/wheel ends all day long.
The driving is a breeze-No cell service so no calls, every time we move to a different vantage point for loading the driving game changes. so it keeps it interesting. It's just a job that requires two things get the loads hauled/keep up with the combine and don't tear up equipment-pretty simple. His last three years have been a disaster with hired help, a bank out wagon {brand new rolled, bumper torn off a truck and trailer, forgot to release brakes on a trailer tore up 8 tires, tongue bent all to hell on a pup trailer. He said I have sign a 100 year contract. * The engine work isn't hard on me for the simple fact I work when I want to. But as far as my old employment those days are done. He bought this engine for his 86 FLC, which now I will be working off and on helping him rebuild this late fall and winter. Lengthen frame and install Freightliner/Airliner suspension. Install rear cab air-ride, and while engine swap is going on-install a late 13 speed. When that's done scuff the cab and paint it white with a new black steel channel bumper. And last but not least a single 6" X 7' straight pipe. Hopefully he will let me letter the bumper with---- Old **** Stain as that's what I call the truck.
Sounds like you're enjoying things and kind of having fun without any pressure. I wish I could get there. I've been kind of debating what I should do. Season started off great at my MX track but now it's nothing but constant rain. Doesn't seem to be much interest in the oval track. Hopefully I can get some help to move pumps around when the rain quits. I just don't have the energy I used to and not sure if I should continue or look at shutting things down and selling everything. It's been weighing on me the last couple of weeks. Blood work and everything is good with no signs of cancer but with the treatments and the meds I get fatigued really fast. It's hard to stay motivated but part of it could be the crappy weather.
Gotta have fun using skills at hand or is just work!
Thats where all the Seattle rain is going, we want it back. I thought it was just fires in Canada?
One extreme to the other sometimes both in the same province. I'll take the rain over a wildfire any day though. I've had a wildfire go through in 2010. Things can dry out after a rain. After a fire there's nothing to salvage. Thankfully I didn't lose any equipment or supplies.
ECU for leveling the combine went south so had today off, but I found my accessory drive gear pulling tool. Rebuilt the accessory drive, installed the liners, installed the cam and hung the pistons on the new con rods. So fairly productive, for farting around.
Ecu went bad and it didn't roll down the hill?
Stays locked in that position.
So I guess it tells you its bad before you try to turn around? I'm just guessing you are in the steep terrain from some of your pictures.
Sounded a good days distraction on the Cummins
Extremely steep leveler is maxed. As far as telling operator yes and no, you know somethings not right in a very short distance, ground speed cutting the peas on those slopes is about 2 mph. Grain usually 2.5 to 3.0 depending on how thick. The trick is keeping a header that wide in the cut on hillsides. He slid a few times this year, about 4' slide.
Rained hard Monday morning, so waiting for wheat to dry enough to thrash. So today installed rings and stuffed the pistons in the liners. And installed two heads-ran out of ambition. Maybe see what it will come out to on injector timing this Sunday. I'll take a photo or two of that. Don't have to hurry.
So long as correct key in place should be a snap to get the boxes timed.
The cam was for a 369 CPL {BU} timing code of 65 nominal, with .060 of gaskets. This engine is built on a {BY} timing code of .070 nominal. For every .007 of shim thickness it moves the followers about .0015. I believe it has a .0015 key. So should be in the range of .021 of installed gaskets. Wanting .071 to .073 slow, but if it comes out .069 to .071 that's ok too, it makes spec.
You are far better schooled and memory than I on CPL numbers. Been close to 30 years since timed one.
Well you're both better than me, I'm lost as far as timing a Cummins. However I do prefer diesel engines to gas engines. At least when they're running right. Change filters regularly and oil and no ignition problems to drive you nuts.
The cams are the same except for MVT engines, I, II, III all used the same cam even into the IV. I guess I was close on amount of gaskets to set timing and then yet I wasn't. It took .036 in gasket thickness to get .071, because I noticed something with cam follower housings, could hardly read it. Had .003 removed from surface on a rebuild, so that threw off what I was expecting it would take for gaskets. So .071 it is.
Sweet, close enough for spec
Actually wanted to see 72 or 73, like setting them retarded. Don't have quite the throttle response it would at .070 but have better hang time between shifts, rpm doesn't fall as quick.
Knowing "little" details like that must come from a lot of experience! I did a fair amount of Cummins mostly the older small cam 855's along with a few 12V-1710's and a hand full of KT1150's, showing my age calling them 1150's instead of K19's huh! Just about all these were in off-road applications either loaders or haul trucks with a few on Gensets so shifting was not a real consideration!
Here is some info on injector timing, most all injector timing tools work on same principle. The OEM Cummins is a extravagant mule, the aftermarket like the two I own do the same thing without all the frills of OEM. I have a Monaco which I loaned to a friend it's easiest to set up, then I have the Central which I used today good tool but funky to get set up, two small items on redesign would cure that. Cams are advanced/retarded using gaskets to shim cam followers in or out from the block. Gaskets come in .007, .014, .021, .031., Minimum allowable is one gasket at .014 and max stack is .080. There are also different off set keys for the cam gear, normal key for reaching .070 is a .0026 cam key, there are 5 different keys. Timing is easy or confusing, with tool installed engine is rotated in clockwise direction to find TDC, you know it's coming up to TDC on compression stroke because both dials spin clockwise at the same time. Find exact TDC by baring back and forth set piston plunger dial to zero. Then bar engine clockwise/normal rotation 90*, at that time the injector pushrod plunger dial is set to zero. Bar engine back to zero setting at TDC, then continue baring counter clockwise to 45* which is 2 1/2 revolutions .250 on the piston plunger dial, this is done to remove gear slack. Next rotate back clockwise from .250 to .203-Stop and read injector dial indicator. Might take a bit to achieve correct shimming for wanted injector travel at .203. That's a fast run down I did. *
Thought there were like a dozen keys Several cams too. The pistons with cutouts are for high lift cams
If cam key needs to be changed to acquire correct injector timing-The gear can be pressed off, but installing is another story. Remove all burrs from gear inside bore and cam snout, place gear in a oven at 375 to 400* for 3 hours. Have someone hold cam upright and quickly drop gear emplace. You have about 30 to 40 seconds, if it stops before bottoming you get to start over, do not try to press it the rest of the way. Do not use a torch or rosebud to heat it, it will distort. Your wife will think you burned some cookies with the nice aroma in the kitchen.
There are only so many off set keys, don't need more than five for correct cam. On big cams There were several part numbers-all were the same cam. All the pistons have valve reliefs, there were only about four or five CPL's that used a higher exhaust lift cam, one of those CPL's was 676, It was one of the very first Big Cam IV's. The difference in cams started with the NT88's, 444, and up. The NT88 had a timing spec of .101 and some ran up to .130 or so. Plus timing a NT88 if you were watching injector dial you would see the dial rise/flatten then rise again, Cummins was trying for two shots of fuel was the thought. Below is a BC-IV CPL 676 I built 2 years ago. The trouble with Cummins-there is a ton of real bad info out there that's gone on for years. *
3051556 piston covers cpl's 449,531,625,745. 3028685 piston covers CPL's 676,695 and the like only a few engines used those, but the cam lift was worthless less than a 1/8 of an inch of extra lift and produced no extra hp.
A tan six. Timing on #1-.071, #3-.071, #5-.0715. To add to the timing procedure-Correct injector timing is measured at .203 thousands BTC with injector pushrod travel of .071 thousands at that point. With a 15% over fuel-injectors flowed to match rail keeping it below 200 psi, more in the range of 190 plus a 3804502 N14 turbo it should run well. Plus cylinders 1, 3 and 5 must be timed. *
One other tid bit-it's nice when heads are installed/torqued that the valve stem heights from end to end are within .004.
Found a SS296 air compressor on ebay-200 and free shipping-New Old Stock. There are SS's out there in reman for 375 and up with a 350 dollar core. This one has been on the shelf awhile. A genuine Bendix product but Allied Signal was involved from 1985 to 1999, then Allied renamed to Honeywell, and Knorr Bremse owns Bendix now. But this compressor was rebuilt in the U.S.A. back then. Plus no core. *
Finished the last of small stuff. Installed twin feed fuel lines to front and back head, intersect at fuel shut off solenoid. Feeding fuel in both front and back does make a difference in idle smoothness, throttle response & a few more horse power. Cummins only used one 5/16 steel line for everything, the problem is the NPT fittings are 1/8 & ID of fittings is real small. So by adding fuel to the front more volume. Cummins made engines with fuel fed in the front or rear, I have several sets of both types of fuel lines, simple to do using 4 cylinder head fittings. Fuel shut off has a 1/8 testing port 90* from top delivery port, remove NPT plug install head fitting reshape fuel line attach. Run the front line to standard delivery port. Cost-zero dollars, Pittsburg Power gets $300.00 for basically the same thing. Plus Dwight who bought it still wants a CAC so I converted a early intake from a non aftercooled 250. I will have AFC adjusted 10% for turbo lag. It will run fine with CAC unit and a 3804502-N14 turbo, that turbo spools faster anyway. Plus a better Pulse exhaust manifold. All wrapped up for now.
40 some odd years ago I wondered why cummins would push fuel thru the front OR the back of an engine. Why not run fuel to both ends? More consistent pressure & temperature and I considered doing it to my ol 72 Pete. But drivin took most of my time and the idea fell into the ash pile of all my other brilliant ideas........
I've converted several in my time.
I have a photo of a single owner logger somewhere in my trash heap of photos of a Super 250, that the owner claimed came from the factory with twin fuel feed. I'm pretty sure Cummins knew just never followed through. A Cummins factory trained pump guy I knew years ago told me, Cummins had a tendency of trying things without following through, many pumps the only difference in settings was the torque spring, otherwise identical from one to the next.
That was my thought too. I never thought that the water to air aftercooler helped that much either. How much difference in air temp was there?? Now, the air to air made sense to me.
The super 250 was stroked to 927 cubic inches if I remember correctly and it used 7-7-21 injector cups.
Correct-it really was a pretty good engine.
What years were they available? Naturally aspirated ?
By what I have read roughly 40 to 50 degrees. Between CAC and coolant aftercooled-both have their upsides. A coolant cooled system that is separate from engine coolant seems to work the best by testing standards. There are allot of variables to both. What works against the CAC is volume of air space/air to move causing turbo lag. There are countless articles about the subject and each prone to writers opinion.
IIRC late 60's early 70's, the logger I saw was a 70 Autocar. Don't remember if turbo'd or not. I do know there were crank issues with the Super. Rods had 4 bolts IIRC. I do know the easy way to tell if it's a Super-oil cooler had 6 bolt mounting standard 855 was 5.
Something about the Super having a nodular cast crank comes to mind, plus many were actually rated at 270 IIRC.
The super 250 was naturally aspirated.
I remember 69 or 70, I was loading pozzolan at the Airox plant near Casmalia, Ca. A guy came in to load with a new Pete with a set of cement cans to load. Talkin to him, he said it had a 250 in it and it ran VERY well. I wondered why a cement hauling outfit would not get a 335 since they always seemed to be in a hurry. The guy said the stack would glow red when he really stayed in it. Maybe it was one of these super 250s.
The one thing a Super had over a 855 was a wider torque band.
I had looked this Pete over for a farmer I know about a year ago, told him it was on barrowed time then. About two weeks ago he called me for info as he was setting along side the road, oil blown all over, blew filler cap out--hole in piston. He called today wanting to know if and how much to fix it. Told him I have surgery coming up so somewhere near end of Nov. But I also had a line on a good used still in frame {see it run} NTC400 in a 1980 W900 with a broken aluminum frame. Funny thing is the guy who leases/farms his ground ---it's his cousin that has the 400, so will let them haggle. I can swap it for them get paid for that plus end up with another usable core. Plus the cab/interior/hood on the W900--I might want some of those parts for another project I'm considering. Looking at buying a 77 W900 for real cheap. * Plus I'll still have Dwight's truck to do.--might say to hell with it and do nothing too.
The 1977 for cheap. *
How cheap?
$550 cheap. Has power steering that is worth that.
Dang that’s a deal. Nothing like that around here.
I may or may not--it's still work.
What kind of shape is the cab in? I’d love something like that as a service truck chassis.
The cab isn't too bad, but with the guy possibly buying the 400 out of the other W900, I would have two cabs and that one is in decent shape. Funny I thought about building this thing with a single axle Freightliner suspension and later drive axle to sell as a service truck. It has a BCI 290 with a 10 spd, steel frame and a wet kit. Has Hendrickson beam on 4.44 SQHD's right now. Plus engine air compressor is a Two-Flo 750. I knew where a service box is /was.
Sounds perfect!
You didn't ask if that was with straight pipe or not.
If you can work on it at your own pace go for it. I know you take a lot of pride in your work and I'm sure it would be an awesome truck. Make sure to take lots of pics. It's great to see how a master does things and the finished result.
1301A's, grill chrome are probably worth that. Good headliner definitely worth it.
Lol ya got me there!
Away from the crystal ball---Roughly seven years ago I made a statement on here about Eaton manual gear boxes going away because AMT's were the up coming thing. Junkyard made the comment {So should start grabbing up all the ones laying around}. I just sold 14 cores mainly all late 13's to a national rebuilder. I made 100% profit. Starting in 2007 I started collecting Cummins Big Cam cores including a couple N14's. So far I have built and sold 4 BC's with the fifth on the stand. Only keeping one more core I sold the rest to a national rebuilder, 9 of them. I paid no more than $500 for a core, see nobody wanted them much then, but now they think it's their savior. Had I had more room to store I would have collected allot more, recycling is the best business when you narrow it to certain items, no overhead very little invested. When emissions came along the writing was on the wall, just had to look real close. * A good business, but you have to have allot of years under your belt, only a few of us left. The rest spent their time fingering a lap top, so have little skill. *
And buyers can be assured they are done right when you rebuilt them. Probably better than new. Your work is impeccable! Much the same as if the pumpguysc rebuilt an injection pump. I would trust you 2 guys with anything I needed worked on.
Well I can tell you this----I don't get the shakes and pre-start jitters when firing one up, it's time to make smoke.
I’ve never had the first start shakes either. I’m always the jacka$$ hiding around the corner pecking with a hammer! lol. To me if everything is done right and you know what you’re doing it’s not all that scary. Back in the drilling days I did several mechanical 8.3’s, a 4-71 and a little 4 cylinder Mitsubishi.
Apparently I’m The only one with pre start jitters. In my defense I’ve never had to redo a new engine but I guess I’m just wired that way.
Until the C15 not ever had a question as to work, that engine was a frustrating education.
I had a n844t in a newholland lc665 last 45 minutes when I was 17 or so I learned you make sure the big end of those pesky rods are good only cost me a crank and rod luckily. Was on of the first machines I bought to flip for profit.
When I was at the truck dealership that’s what I cut my teeth on. I worked with twin brothers on the night shift and I spent a year building dozens with them. I’d work on the drivers side for a couple weeks and then we’d swap and I’d work on the ditch side. That dealer was selling more platinum kits than anyone else on the east coast. It was a great education.
Everyone has one bite them once in a while-it's built into the odds. I have never found a perfect mechanic yet. Depending on the day and time some can be found on hef. * If it starts knocking--mash it to the wood.
lol ain’t that the truth!
Funny the memories that last comment brought up. Can remember Clark Diesel(Detroit and Long Gone) Mechanics assembling 8v engines at the quarry, drop parts in the dirt, pick them up blow it off by mouth or a blowgun and install. Those engines lasted close to 15 years just basic services. Cat techs inframe overhauled dusted 17a overburden removal machines dust a flying, was there as the quarry closed and the machines ran onto the hauloff trailers sold to others. My own time at Continental Rebuilders, once a division of Feld/Gelco where engines and drive train parts were disassembled by one group of gorillas, tanked then baskets of bolts blocks or gears and housings came to rebuild stations, that only last two months, Gelco was moving the company around and sold the entire business, it too is long gone. Some shops could eat off the floor, others would not take a lunch box out to open as was so filthy. One old foreskin’s favored comment howl as a new rebuild was cranked to start: “Crank it til the water boils, then Choke it!” Some days miss that, he passed several years ago.
The source for all my cores has a pile of New Old Stock---This morning I'll make a trip to go through some of it--piston/liner kits, gaskets, bearings, and several boxes of oem reman top stop injectors. I'll buy those and the bearings--most of the cylinder kits are early std. Plus there is a old 35' van box on the ground full of antique cummins parts.
HEY! I resemble that remark!
The thing i worry about, the older i get, is that i might forget to torque something critical. I depend more now on my long established unconscious work habits
That is why made paint markers!!
I know what the inside of that van smells like, but I cant describe it........
Soured Motor Oil and Cosmoline
Freshly printed money to me-there are items in there some collectors would love to have, such as a complete cummins 300 with iron lung, along with sets of model 20 jakes for 220's.
I was thinking lingering money since Truck Shop has access to it. Probably a pretty sweet smell.
Actually I just like knowing where a pile of old/antique parts are-----and others don't, especially collectors.
It's kind of like the axles I recently came across. The owner just wanted them gone because he needed the room where they were stored. Brought about $10K as long as there's no more BS with the auction company. Should be getting about $6700 after the commission is taken off.
Ya, i’ve been using paint markers or sharpies for years. Now I’m starting to worry that i will forget to use the paint markers
If you were to "acquire" the 300, I'd bet it would be sold before you got it to the shop. I sold an NHRS 320 with oil cooled pistons to D. Hull in Or. in 2016 and he was here before I hung up the phone. Almost....
Hull has some stuff--but I try to stay far away from ATHS, that's a tribe and I don't belong to tribes. When you go to a truck show and you see the {In their own mind hot sh!ts running around driving monogramed golf carts}----you just know your amongst Movers $ Shakers.---pew. *
Tested it to day, spent yesterday and a few hours this morning stripping this block. Hoist works great, and ended up with a real nice std, std crank.
Very Nice!!
How many hours will you have in it by the time it’s ready?
What's ready? I have a roast in the oven right now should be done in 45 minutes, mashed taters & gravy.
These days hours don't matter to me--I'm not in a hurry, it will get done in it's own time. I don't have a house to pay for, cars /trucks to pay for, vacations to pay for, no kids {never had any}. Anything I build is just to fill time, to keep from staring at the walls. I'll still make a few bucks in the end.
It is so nice to be able to work on projects at your own pace with no real timeline to finish them. Maybe something else comes up or you're just not into one day. Not being under any pressure is great!
So will you just put a price tag on it when it’s done versus keeping track of the total hours?
How true--Long before any assembly starts I do a detailed inspection of the block. It takes time but I spend some of it tapping/chasing all the threaded bores. There is nothing worse than finding bad threads when assembly has already begun. I like bolts to thread in with fingers, torque is reached more accurately. I measure all liner flanges and counter bores then test fit all liners to reach the closest possible protrusion height across all six once permanently installed. All gasket surfaces are wiped with a cleaner to remove any oil before any sealer is applied. Before oil pan is installed or even if not, once lower end is assembled I spray the inside of block/crank with a light oil then cover. If it's a complete I pressurize the oil system till oil is seen bubbling at rocker shafts. Just things I do.
I'll know how many rough hours-but yes I'll throw a price on it that will cause it to sell, I'm not interested in setting on it to grab every cent. I'm ok with that. If I wasn't covering expenses and making something I wouldn't be doing it.
So how was it ?
real good--going to cook one of these on Monday. *
Mmmmm. Just finished eating and my mouth started watering!
Was a treat at the plant for holiday dinners. Can still smell that today! One hour 500degrees then shut off oven, allow to sit in the oven undisturbed Three hours. Door marked DO NOT OPEN. Perfection.
Does it taste nice when it is still so red? We generally cook ours until there is no red, of course it is more dry and a bit tougher the way we cook it.
Grass-fed I assume? I can't eat grass-fed if it's ground up into hamburger. If you don't eat prime rib red, you may as well not eat it at all, just buy regular roasts, save the prime for the rest of us*********
Tastes best when burned on the outside and still mooing in the middle!
Prime in the middle on a 16 lb roast 135* med rare end cuts will be 155 to 160* Covered in rock salt bones down fat up lifted & tied.
Installed the crankshaft this morning-perfect. Then I went for a 6 hour ride in the tow truck to Lime Canyon a little past Baker City, finish the trip to Penske Pasco in the morning. Starting system went into Starter Block mode. happens now and then. I'll make $475 for setting on my *** looking out the windshield.
Can’t beat the money! Made the wife and myself a Porterhouse last night. 12 minutes on the grill. Was about half gone by this point! We buy from local grower where packaged at local meat cutter. That PR made me Hangry!!
Too much butter on that roll! lol
Oh no! I thought I was done seeing pictures of plates of food since I quit looking at Facebook.
I got back from my tow to Pasco, steamed cleaned some engine parts/pieces. Then was summoned to look at another no start issue { I thought I retired}. Truck had been setting for five days, driver built air backed out shifted to drive and engine died. Which set off another {Blocked Starter Mode} warning in dash. I found this one went to Blocked mode and won't let trans shift to neutral. So gab the tow truck hook up and leave for Pasco. Another three hours.
Only retired until Needed!!
To clarify something in another thread about a proper deck to hold head gasket {C13}. On average a diesel engine with a deck roughly 42" long and using one cylinder head requires the deck to be no more than .002 out from end to end, that includes 3406's and engines like the Series 60, although liner protrusion height on a Series 60 has rather low requirements too .000 to .003+. * Because the old design of Cummins 6 cylinders going way back having three individual heads those engines were inframed time after time with a waved deck, even waved out gaskets would hold for awhile. The average material removed when machining the deck on a 855 is .007 to .009. Allot of material over 44". High hour KTA's or KT19's-those have 6 individual heads so average to deck one of those is .012 to 0.14 which puts it at max to be removed because if line bored also the installed cylinder piston/rod height is more than likely maxed.
Something Miller brought up-spun cam bushings. Yes the 855 would spin a cam bushing/bearing. The early series of cam bushings only had a oil port of 1/8" the oil rifle is 5/16" ID. Since early 90's all replacement cam bushings have 1/4" ports, issues pretty much went away. But two things that both Cummins with the 855 and Cat with the 3406A,B,C models had in common------------- too many in-frame rebuilds without changing cam bushings/bearings. Both engines have huge oil pumps and move a high volume so never really showed low oil psi until over 1 million in some cases, usually showed up low psi at idle. The BC I had a high psi system idled at 35 to 40 ran 60 at 1700 plus, BCII & BCIII & up idle at 20 run 40 at 1200. But when oil psi drops to 10-15 at idle it's very likely oil is gushing around cam bushings.
Lime Canyon can be downright ugly in the weather, glad you had a good day for it.
People really underestimate the side loading on the cam from the valve train forces. The worst engines have piddly little journals or not enough, and they suffer almost as bad as those V-8 gassers with only 3 mains. The cam bearings on the aircraft engines are not too bad, since the valvetrain forces oppose each other across the flat engine.
Pancake Bug and Porsche engines did well for their abused lives. Can still remember the Herc pancake plants in US M88 retrievers, huge while nearly bulletproof. First ever saw a Cummins Cam bushing spun, truck drove in low oil pressure, slight noise, burnt spot between 2&3 cam boxes on block. 1976
Well the fact the 855 is a pressure timed injection system which puts injection pressure directly on cam-the wear is always to the bottom outside of journals. For every 10% the fuel is turned up the pressure to cam lobe increases 10%. Stock rail pressure for most NTC 400's was in the range of 158 to 170 psi with a stock button of a 22-change that to a 10 button and rail hit's 220 plus. The cam can handle up to 200, Having the injectors flowed to 200 cc drops the rail back taking the stress off the cam lobe. Which in turns takes load from cam bushings. * My old Pete had a 531 CPL 400-I had a KT pump with 1" gear {stock is 3/4"} with a 5 button. The rail psi would climb to 280 plus, drove it with a liquid filled fuel pressure gauge. I removed injectors and had the opened to 220 cc, stock was 160 IIRC. Rail pressure dropped back down to 200 range plus pyro dropped as well.
That's not possible!
Well how about this way---That's not enough roll for the butter.
The pressure/time injection system works around a fixed advance or retarded timing at the camshaft. The initial cam timing is set by a key locking gear, there are several offset keys made to obtain injector timing and fine tuned with gaskets/shims of various thickness starting at .007, .014, .022, .031 installed between cam followers and block. Least amount of gaskets used is .014 & most is .080. So there is a vast list of injector timing codes because of the various cam profiles, compression ratios & injector flow rates/pumps. The cam I'm reusing was in a NTC BCII with a timing code of AW {59 to 61} thousands of pushrod travel. In order to retime to 69 to 71 which is a BY timing code, I need to change the cam key. Which below is a chart including keys by offset and a timing code chart, this is a short chart there is a much bigger one. I need a 3021596 retarded key to get in the range of 70 for a BCIII 400 CPL 625/531. The key in the cam I'm using is a 3021599 advanced key. These keys have arrows for correct direction of offset, I could just use the 3021599 key by turning 180* and use more or less gaskets to get the 70. But I've ordered the correct key for a BCIII. Should bore who ever reads this. *
I'd trust you to rebuild any engine I needed rebuilt. Your knowledge is 2nd to none! Wish I had the money, I'd fly you up here to help figure out why the M11 in my dump truck loses prime. Check valve is good and the Baldwin filter supposed to prevent back flow doesn't work as claimed. Interesting that a few years ago there was bulletin from Baldwin on the internet about the BF1259? filter solving the loss of prime issues on Cummins but it and any other info on the filter is now non existent. I have a primer bulb with another filter I could hook up. Having to fill the main filter before initial start wouldn't be too bad. It was on the truck but the hose went from 1 side to the other. The shop I took it to when I first bought it put a new filter on but who ever did it must have been blind not to notice it wasn't hooked up to anything. I think it's a Racor primer but have also read they are prone to air leaks. Would you suggest hooking it up properly or leaving it off and trying to solve the loss of prime issue another way?
Two things what type of truck and what are the fuel lines made of and how old?
Truck is a 94 Ford L9000. Fuel lines are probably old and I think referred to as rubber braided. I did read in the past that these type of fuel lines can get tiny pin holes that allow air in but don't leak fuel. I don't use the truck a lot so don't keep the fuel tanks very full. I basically put a bunch of fuel in when I have a project that requires the truck. I've also read that not enough fuel in the tanks can cause air in the lines. What I'm not sure about is if the check valve on the ECM is working does anything before it make a difference? I was thinking about replacing the fuel line from the check valve to the filter but don't want to be "throwing parts at it hoping to fix the problem". I'd rather try and find the problem and just replace what's needed.
Here is a crazy way to check for a bad hose-cap one end or leave hooked up remove end from tank make sure there is still fuel in the hose, rig up a pressure regulator put 10 to 15 psi to it, if it has pin holes or any leaks it will look like a soaker hose.
I use that method to check the long hidden fuel hoses under a truck with a sleeper. But it is not to be used on things that have yellow paint.!
Thanks for the information on the camshaft keys. May need in a couple months for a KTA engine that might get done. Will reach out to you if any questions. Thanks again. Simon C
Info and parts are tough to come by for those, expensive too. Better find an old KTA manual.
I had a similar Ford problem. Turned out the frame mounted fuel filter had a plastic bleeder screw on top. The fitting was iirc a #4 boss oring. The top of the fitting cracked. No external sign of failure. Replaced with steel plug.
IIRC the Ford used a Stand pipe Suction tube in the tank, those also tended to get corrupted around the normally kept fuel fill level and would pinhole over time.
Problem is Ford used allot of different tank configurations through the years.
I had a m11 with a cracked stand pipe, it would lose prime if you got the tank under a certain level. It would start up then due around 30 seconds, then you just crank it a bit and it would start up and be fine rest of the day. It also still had an injector out for like 2-3 years. After I was done at that company they fixed both problems without any engine damage and unit still runs to this day. Can't see why anyone wouldn't want a Cummins.
Any fuel tank with a stand pipe can be highly suspect if the fuel lines have been replaced
Everyone has a bad fuel tank story, one of mine. We took care of Northwest Grain Grower transports. All Kenworth at the time, anywho this one had sudden shut down & repriming issue when it would happen which could be once in a week or four times in one hour. 1997 T800 3406 E with single tank. Had it in the shop hooked up test gauge to fuel system, everything checked out, nothing wrong with fuel lines, or any of the Cat system. It was setting there idling and Gayle plus I started rocking the truck the little it would. Then it died. Looking in fuel tank I could just make out a thin object on the bottom. Pumped tank out removed it after screwing around for 15 minutes I finally got ahold of the item with a grabber/claw. It was a old circuit board from the early tube type fuel sending units. It was very thin about 1 1/4" wide 22" long, it would float over at times and get sucked up to fuel stand tube, engine shuts off it floats away then back again. The only way it could have come out of the old sending unit was while it was lifted from tank for change out. *
I hear sandwich baggies and condoms will drive a guy nuts when put in the tank. They claim it was a common thing at the one mine near us at one time
I remember someone had a truck go down as the tank had tons of those bottle seals from diesel treat
I guess I have a fuel tank story . . . A few years back when I worked at the shop, we had some kind of Luxury car, don't remember the brand, but it need to go to the dealer in Appleton, about 3 hours away. I did the run at night, after work, left maybe 6 or so. The truck was an old International flatbed with a DT466. Loaded up the car and ran it to the dealer without trouble, I am on the way back, about 10:30pm in the middle of farm country between Appleton and Wausau, and the truck just died like the key was shut off. Drifted of to the side of the road and spent awhile trying to get it started, nothing. Woke the boss up, and he starts heading my way with the F550 wrecker. It was about 10 degrees out, with a mile of farm fields on either side of the road, and a stiff biting wind. I was alright, but my (pregnant) wife had come along for the ride. It was a cold 2 hours waiting for the wrecker. The flatbed weighed about 15,000lbs, and the boss slung the back with the F550 wrecker. That was a long, slow and sketchy ride home. I remember the 7.3 in the wrecker could only make about 35 up the grades, not to mention the general lack of steering authority with that load on the sling . . . The pickup tube on the International had cracked at the flange where it bolted to the top of the tank and was laying on the floor of the tank.
Now this is an ancient history fuel tank block story - but when I was still in short pants, my eldest brother (about 19 at the time) was working for a builder as a carpenter. The builder had a KB-7 International tray truck as his building materials hauler. It was maybe 10 years old at the time, but in good working order. The brother came home to our farm (11 miles out of the city) and he was driving the KB-7. He had instructions from the builder to head to the city to pick up some building materials - so I went along for the thrill of a ride in a big truck! We got going down the 2 lane main road into the city, and after few miles, the KB-7 started coughing and burping and stalling - to the point where it simply wouldn't run if the pedal was floored. But when the pedal was released, it would idle just fine. My eldest brother, despite being young, had a few smarts and some mechanical experience, fixing his old '37 Chev previously, and working in a garage for a couple of years. So he figured it was something blocking a fuel line, and we set to by the side of the road to find it. The brother pulled off all the fuel line from the engine to the cabin, and found nothing, he could mouth-blow down the line, and it was clear and unblocked. Finally, he took the line off between the outlet on the top of the tank, to the front of the cabin. He blew down it, and sometimes he could get a clean blow, but every second or third blow, it blocked up! He went over to a nearby old fence and grabbed a length of fencing wire, and ran it through the fuel line. Out dropped a perfectly circular little piece of metal! This was the centre hole-piece out of a section of hole-punched sheet metal! It was the exact same diameter as the inside of the fuel line, and it had obviously been dropped into the fuel tank sometime (maybe at assembly?) - and over the years it had been picked up and gone down the inside of the fuel line - until it stuck at a point in the line, where it could swivel like a butterfly valve!! It was one of those "one in a million" traps, that you couldn't replicate in a 100 years of trying!! The fuel line went back on, and we proceeded at full bore into the city with no more fuel starvation problems!
Happened three times to me. Someone replaced the fuel sender using way too much blue silicone. it falls into the tank and that stuff is real slippery in diesel fuel. It went four feet up a fuel line in a loader. Another time it happened on my boat in the middle of lake Erie. Boat kept dying at high speeds. Luckily in kept running enough to get back to the dock.
Who else remembers the old stories of putting moth balls in someone’s gas tank? One of my mentors told me that the naphtha from the moth balls wasn’t the problem; a number of those old cars had a cowl mounted gas tank and the gas flowed by gravity to the carburetor. Think about how a model A is set up. The moth balls would roll around and plug the outlet and the car would quit. The driver gets out and that disturbs the plug and the gas flows again. The car will restart, only to quit again randomly. I have seen plugging from the bottle seals, too. One local trucker had a bunch in his oil pan collected over the years. Finally starved the oil pickup enough to cause bearing failure. An expensive lesson that he would pass on to anyone who would listen.
So I got stuck into this. It was beautiful. Home grown on grass.
Now I don't normally watch this guys videos, this one I did. Rebuilt in Floida brought to Cat Idaho for a look see, I think Meridian Id. Anywho this video is a great example of why some shouldn't delve into mechanics, stay with the xbox. Watch the Count on Sesame Street from time to time. *
He works for Western States at the shops near CdA. Some good videos but he is young, someday he will be the old guy.
Always found that odd because Spokane is the huge shop and Hayden isn't that far away.
Today I swapped out the cam key, heated the cam gear as usual to 450-500 degrees in a oven, fell right into place and locked tight in a matter of seconds. This cam was for a BCII 300 with a AW timing code of .060 nominal, engine I'm building has timing code of .070 nominal. So have to change to key with more offset. Below is a chart for Keys, AW uses the 3021592 key which is retarded timing BY code the one I'm using, uses a 3021596 key also retarded. Now there is always the question which direction to install the key, because installed wrong direction the injection timing will be advanced. Any retarded timing the key will install with arrow to FRONT of engine, {there is a arrow etched with part# on top of key} and looking at the key the offset will be to the left. * Now note how Cummins does things the 3021592 key is used/listed as 3021599 advance key turned the other direction for advance with a different part#, same key though. Now Cummins Does Not list the direction of key for the NH, NT, NTC 6 cylinders---only V-6 and V-12 engines have key noted by Cummins, which has caused allot of keys installed the wrong direction, if just replacing cam, key is installed the same from one to other. Which causes allot of extra time removing gear to set key correct. Key chart and Timing Codes with cam key part#'s in link. * https://rawze.com/forums/uploads/202201/post_2_1641392584_8e27fde6819ce18db0140b82d25dbb81.pdf?fbclid=IwAR18VANIo7mKxpSvw6SY63XhkSgZ1oJUcjxRqfw6qPF2Qg_FHwDMCJhR3NU *
While waiting for parts to show later this week finish some parts cleaning and dialed the bell housing this morning. This one came out very well total TIR {total indicator runout} was .005. Instead of typing out procedure this link explains it well with oem illustrations and values. * https://www.dieselmechanic.info/cummins-n14/cummins-n14-flywheel-housing-installation.html
It's nice when someone who knows can post links to the right way to do things. Too many video's online show what not to do trying to pass them off as the right way to something.
Only had to deal with timing keys on a few K engines and a few 1710's. It's been a few years but guess we were thinking right because were lucky to not have to pull gears back off and reverse keys!
If you were keeping the engine intact with same CPL, and just changing cam you would reuse the same key in same position.
That's because the video makers number one concern is channel content. Good content does not need to be accurate or correct, it needs to be entertaining to a large number of people. A good content producer does not need to know anything about what he is doing in the content, he needs to be able to act as though he does. Most of the YouTube "mechanics" are no more mechanics than Tom Cruise is a fighter pilot.
Oh no, your bursting bubbles! lol
It still doesn't make sense to me How do they combine 0.0, +0.08, -0.05, +0.08 to get 0.13 TIR?
Of course that assumes the last person in there had done it right!
As usual--one thing I notice, when I post something, people are waiting like flies to try and throw mud. First -KS--It wouldn't have timed right in the beginning, never would have run correctly. Which assumes nothing. it's either right or wrong . * 0.13 TIR--pretty simple--it's a type-o. People writing manuals make just as many mistakes as people building houses and installing utilities--the only difference is people laying buried utilities are like doctors, they bury their mistakes.
Sorry for saying anything! It's just from my experience I never assumed that it was assemble right before I got to it. But I will try to keep my thoughts to myself from now on!
This has absolutely nothing to do with engines. Had a hour plus drive one way to the urologist visit at 8:30 this morning. There are new sections of highway on route 12 to Pasco, and three different speed zones posted, from 60, 65, 70. I leave early don't have to push it, set cruise at posted limit in the two lane I was constantly tail gated, as soon as four lane would start with a limit of 70 all traffic is at 75 plus. * Now children average age of 6 like to test the water with parents, right up until parents have had enough. I just figure most everyone driving has the intellect of a 6 year old because they never stopped testing the water. 85% of drivers are 6 years old.
It's totally ok, I'm just pointing it out--just like others pointing it out. But you can do like most, just hit the ignore button.
Highway speed limits are 65 here, and if you drive that speed people get really pissed off and typically tailgate, they start figuring it out when I keep slowing down, Ive gone down to 40-50 before. I don't want them to rear end me when a deer jumps out.
Yeah--people never stop testing the water when driving. Like a little kid seeing how far they can take a situation with parents, drivers never stop testing the water with johnny law. {Just how fast can I go before I get a ticket-screw the law, laws are for others.}
Not throwing mud at all. You didn't write the manual, even if you did it was an honest question I didn't understand the math when it read it in the manual the first time. Neither did my friend that was a cummins mechanic So what's the typo? What should the TIR be with those measurements? I kinda assume it's the difference between max and min measurements but have never seen an explanation other than "Here's how the numbers work" without actually explaining how the numbers work
A plus or minus that doesn't go beyond max when added together. The one I just dialed had a minus .0025 and plus .0025 on 360 degrees for a total runout combined of .005. I realize that sounds strange but that is how it is figured with allowance of a slightly out of round used bell. Which I have seen new worse than that. The addition was incorrect in the link.
I actually sent a first gen BC flywheel housing back as could not get below .030, next one came in at .006.
Gotcha. Mine was 12 0.0 9 -.0015 6 -.004 3 -.003 So .004" TIR if I'm understanding correctly
Here's the thing--Cummins is/was the only with this bell dial in. But I have checked a few Cat 3406's-those ran up to .025 out. cat has no dial in nor anyone else, one of Cummins strange items. In most cases or has happened allot---bells installed without checking/correcting. And no transmission front bearing issues or clutch issues.
Truck shop is there a procedure for a flex plate? When I put one on my N14 I just bolted it on and sent it as I couldn't find anything. It's done around 3 months of work since then.
That would all fall under dialing the bell same for either use, flywheel or flex. Bell was probably fine anyway.
As always felt, did not say a lot of good as to how Cummins were machined. Even DDs or Mack or Cat could swap a flywheel housing or timing cover from any specific variety to another no adjustments. All machined exactly same, dowel pins set exactly same.
Mack always used to require both checking the flywheel for axial runout and checking the flywheel housing for both radial and axial runout. Mack used dowel pins after factory dialing in and torquing the bolts. The retaining bolts could loosen in service and both the housing and the back of the block would get wear from fretting. That made it nearly impossible to meet factory specs. Older trucks we’d get as close as we could and then recut the dowel holes and make and fit new oversized dowels. Do the best we could for these older trucks.
No wander I'm a cat man any time I need a dial indicator my head starts to hurt
I think the cat 3208 and 3126 books both gave a spec for bellhousing. I was worried about it because I didn’t check either one when I did rear main seals, because I didn’t have a way to check them. Not enough tools or skills.
Truck Shop I have enjoyed all the info on this thread. If I missed it in there somewhere I apologize but I was hoping you could add some refresher information on PTD vs Topstop. And I.B.C vs O.B.C adjustment procedures it’s been a long time since I’ve worked on an 855
PTD went out because not enough surface on lobe for injector, the whole reason for the big cam and top stop injector. OBC. is for PTD small cam engines which sets injector by bottoming plunger, valves and injector are set at same time all on one cylinder following firing order. IBC. is for top stop injectors used on big cams, which valves are set on one cylinder and injector on another. STC-Celect Plus N14 are set the same sequence as a Small Cam OBC. * in----------vl A 1 1 B 5 5 C 3 3 A 6 6 B 2 2 C 4 4---following firing order. * Big Cam IBC * in vl A 3 5 B 6 3 C 2 6 A 4 2 B 1 4 C 5 1
The real reason for the Cummins 855 bell dialing---Cummins Bells are/were known for distorting/ cracking. The 855 only has 9 -5/8"NF bolts holding it in place in a narrow pattern. Unlike the others--3406 which has a variety of bolts and larger pattern. It really has nothing to do with poor machine work. If that were the case people would be agas at the crankshaft centerlines of any engine manufacture---it's not what you folks think. On a new Cummins 855 block assembly I have never found one that the bell was offset drilled or odd dowel pins, it always takes place with a distorted bell housing. And all bell housing machining is figure off crank centerline. * Note---There is always slightly more crankshaft surface in the block than the cap. Crank centerline is measured by total mainline journal diameter, then measure from cap parting line to deck. Then remove/unbolt main cap, with straight edge across center of saddle using a caliper measure the distance from straight edge to radius, do the same with the saddle in block. You will find the the parting line of main cap is not the exact centerline. Now with the known difference in distance between block and cap will be subtracted from first measurement to deck. That difference between the saddles/radius and distance from parting line to deck is center of crank bore. Sounds complicated but after a run through one time it's easy simple.
Now for my fun morning at the old company shop. While I was waiting for the compressors to build air I decided to take a look at truck 488, noticed it had a fresh DOT inspection sticker, Jan/24. It was inside last night being detailed for the driver who was off for a week, It was just brought back from the new company corporate shop {Penske} after being there for five days and some work I guess. So time to grab a flashlight and check the {Penske Inspection} . Didn't take long--went to my favorite pet peeve-----those incredibly wonderful stupendous---air disc brakes---AH HA a major discrepancy, THIS TRUCK IS OUT OF SERVICE . Metal on metal both drives on left side, right side less than 5% pad left. I always Liked Telling people/truck owners their truck is OUT OF SERVICE, just love putting a rig out of service, Did I tell you folks I like putting a rig out of service! Made my day calling the office to say----better get those corn cobs at Penske give it another go round.
Pencil whipped it. Drive by inspection. I can see missing some of the other little things on an inspection But the brakes….
Yes pencil whipping is the norm, the average age in this Penske shop is around 24. * Helpless & Hungry.
TS, tell me again.....I so like hearing that !!!! I only ever had to red tag equipment a couple times over the years, but when I did I meant it. Not the foreman, super, vice president or president of the company could over ride me. As I told them, the tag stays. You can fire me, but the tag stays and if you pull it OSHA will eat your as$.....
That's a Fact Jack--The Boss, Owner who ever can just go **** up a rope. I always warned everyone-----DO IT AND I"LL HAVE DOT ON THE PHONE ASAP. What your going to fire me, Hello Mr Shark I have wrongful termination case.
To add to my post #184 I drew this diagram to explain finding crankshaft centerline better. Now the actual extra amount the crank sets in the block rather than cap is usually no more than .020 on small engines-6 liter or so. On a 14 to 16 liter it can be as much as .035 to .040. The dotted line is actual center and that amount is subtracted from the parting line to deck measurement to give true deck height. Deck on a 855 is new max 19.007 to new minimum of 19.003. And can be decked as much as new max/minimum will allow because deck height can be no less than 18.994. *
Best thing i ever pulled out of service was a fire chief’s vehicle. He had been driving it with a broken seat back for quite a while. He was wild .
Had several items on the list today other than this engine, still managed to get something done. Parts showed so test fit liners, all at .006 to .0065 on protrusion calls for .004 to .007. Work on hanging pistons on rods, rings and install the next few days.
Do you have an oven in the shop or just bring the pistons into the kitchen like I did?
Oh no--I just run some hot water over them, pin slides right in.
You're an artist. I wish I could draw even a 1/10th as good as you can.
I do those in pencil then back over with a Micron 005 ink pen. Most of the time I freehand but for something like that-technical-I use a compass and straight edge, and freehand the ink on any curved. There is no illustration of some procedures so people understand it's best to spend a minute and lay it out. * Thanks, Dave.
I can cut a straighter line or shape with a cutting torch better than I could ever draw. Maybe because I use 2 hands on a torch?? I also much prefer a cutting torch to a plasma torch. If the plasma torch was longer and 90 deg's. like a cutting torch would be better for me but there's still a big round insulator type deal that restricts your visibility some. My biggest problem when doing longer cuts is I'm concentrating so much on doing the best cut I can I forget to breath. Sometimes if the steel is scrap on the opposite side of the part I'm cutting I'll make a slight notch on the scrap side so I can stop, breath and reposition. I start the cut in the small notch and then move back to the line I'm following. I don't have to do the little notch to the side but it eliminates an uneven cut and makes it look like an uninterrupted cut. I've seen other guys just stop and try to continue the cut but they bugger up the restart.
I love running a torch, especially freehand cutting circles in 1/2" plate. I use to be able to cut 36" culvert, stand on end on concrete floor-about a 1/8" gap all the way around, sometimes 1/16". Cut allot of culvert. But my hands have developed a slight shake so not as good these days for sure.
My sister has a very successful hair salon but she doesn't cut hair any more. Several years ago she found out she has a condition that causes her hand(s) to shake. Thankfully she's got several really good stylists. She's selling the salon to the best younger stylist because she'd like to retire. The plan is for September of this year. She also wants to move to a more affordable province. She's in Sydney on Vancouver Island which is really beautiful but a little pricey to live. Her salon has been voted the best in Victoria a few times which has the most salons per capita in all of Canada. I'm really proud of what she's done but she doesn't think it's that big of a deal. It started off as a 1 stylist salon. Before Covid she had about 30 employee's. In a way Covid was a good thing for lack of a better word. She scaled back the number of employee's quite a bit and it's much more manageable and everyone keeps pretty busy. She went from being open 7 days a week to 5. The employee's really appreciated that.
He is really good, but he put left handed threads on the bolt.......or maybe I'm looking at it upside down.
When I saw that drawing it reminded me of my brother botching about having to draw straight in engineering school. You had to draw straight lines without a ruler, this was more important than learning anything else apparently.
Depends if they represent the bolt or the housing.
The card I'm holding up for TS's technical drawing says "9.8" - not 10 - because he misspelt "center".
It's correct. * And that's correct also. * I also know there are plenty of overseers on HEF, Counting this counting that, inspecting this inspecting that, and like good farmer John Barley Corn--I plant things. * Lots of discrepancy's in this pen & ink.
The shading that you have done with pen and ink is amazing. My daughter-in-law shares your talent. She has one drawing of a bison that turned out well. It must have taken a long time to draw in what looks like each individual hair.
Yes it takes time, patients using many techniques. But the funny thing about art it's meant to be viewed from at least 6' away depending on size of piece, 90% look with thought of a magni- fying glass. * This is one that is so simple, with purposeful twist on layout to exaggerate, most don't see it and think it's crooked. But that's Ok, it suited me.
There might be discrepancies but ,that doesn't change the skill it takes to get it from your mind to the paper. Thanks for posting them I always love seeing your work
There's discrepancies in the real thing. Door plugs falling off of 737 Max's or a new Mustang coming with 2 completely different seats not even the same colour/color. They're both correct the same as center and centre. Depends who's language you're using.
Thank you very much for that! * I started drawing at the age of 4, farm equipment mainly then my interest in trucks started about a year later. I had someone tell me early on not everything is flat so I started drawing prospectively by 6. Mom passed away last year and in her personal effects were a few I drew early on, pretty ragged. Totally self taught, art was one class in school I could manage a A. My dad had/ran a sign shop, he was a master at gold leaf which I learned his technique working/helping him in the shop after school and weekends. We didn't get along very well because both much alike, so it was hard to work around him. * Sometimes there would be a logging truck to letter where it was after work/week night. So I would help him. More than one customer would stand in aw. He would do the layout on the doors with a piece of chalk, something in a arch with script font with thin block italic for town and so on. There was no real lines just a single and that was only for spacing and sure it was spelled correctly. He would do one door I the other, finish in roughly same time. The customers were always bewildered how both doors looked identical. I studied under dad so everything I did replicated his work. * Having the eyes I do gave me an advantage in mechanical, auto machine and welding fabricating. I have a goofy mind that just dreams stuff up or sees things are off. Dad passed in 1983 I was 26, I still did some sign work after but CAD design plus vinal came along and nobody wanted freehand signs anymore. So I tossed my equipment, sister sold dads for 10 cents on the dollar. After 1989 I never picked up another lettering quill. *Below is a typical hand tied Russian Mink hair set in a goose quill. These quills are custom, made to cut a precision line with great speed, and hold a fair amount of the best {One Shot} enamel. These type of quills are the most expensive because the Russian Mink is the finest. When I quit I threw out a Quart jar full of #3, 4 & 5 quills. * Below is a Quill & One Shot. I don't have any photos of my work years ago, but these examples are pretty close to what my ability was during those years. *
Guy's like Von Dutch would be in awe. I used to have a book on custom vans or cars and it had an article on the history of custom painting and who all the pioneers were. Pin striping brushes were very long bristles coming to a point or specific width and seemed to hold a lot of paint. Almost like they had a reservoir on them. The paint was thicker because it didn't drip. I always expected it to drip or have globs when continuing a line but masters like you made every line look consistent like it was all done in one stroke. That takes some serious skill and I imagine a lot of practice. Lots of wannabes too.
Allot of pinstripe quills are customized by the sign painter. Pinstriping is all about speed and even motion. The top Sign Painting--that's one stroke with a follow up finish stroke, the S is done in two strokes, the N done in five. Years ago it was Pomeroy In Yakima when it came to van murals.
From video's I've seen or on TV shows it looks like similar technique for doing precision welds. The pinstriper has to get really comfortable and sometimes does a dry run first. On the side of a vehicle I think they sit on a short stool so they are eye level to where they are painting and then have there hand fanned out so their pinky finger can glide along the vehicle to keep their hand super steady. It looks like it requires a lot of concentration and they don't move too fast. Just a very even controlled speed and at the end of their stroke very carefully raise the quill from the surface. They make it look a lot easier than it is. A long time ago a fly-by-night place did some work on an old Bronco I had. One of the guys did some simple pinstripes on the hood. It had 2 or 3 lines side by making kind of a U spape. One side didn't come back as far as the other side. I asked how come the left side doesn't come back as far towards the windshield. The reply I got was, that's because it was hand painted so there's going be differences like that. I didn't buy that for a 2nd. It was somebody trying to imitate a real pinstriper. It shouldn't matter if it's hand painted. I'm sure there's ways to make reference points to make each side symmetrical. An even more glaring screw up was they put some diamond pattern fabric on the door panels. Just terrible! They had the diamond pattern going 90 deg's. the opposite way on opposite side. I was wondering if they were short on fabric and just had enough to cover the door panel one way. They weren't even supposed to be doing all this extra stuff. They strung me along for a bunch of money and did crappy work. They weren't in business very long.
TS: We would be proud to have a piece of your art in our home. The attention to detail is fantastic! Cam
My father was a signwriter and painter, he learnt his trade in a costly (to his parents) apprenticeship just after WW1. He painted a lot of the inside of English cathedrals, and could do gold leaf lettering, paint a fireplace to look like genuine marble, and he would do backstage illustrations for the likes of Nativity scenes, stage shows, you name it. His ability to draw freehand accurately, and at any size, always left me in awe. He was also ambidextrous! - he could paint/draw/signwrite perfectly with either hand! I believe this was because he was probably naturally left-handed, but left-handedness was 100% looked down on in his era, and schools back then, made left handers do everything with their right hand. He also was right into the finest quality brushes for painting and signwriting, and treated them like we treat our finest wrenches.
I was discussing nose art on WW II planes in another thread. Some of them were real works of art. It's too bad more of them weren't saved and the planes as well.
Brushes for professional pinstriping and signs are very important the same way scissors are for high end hair stylists. I seem to recall my sister had 1 pair of scissors worth $1200 or so but some are over $2000! Seems extravagant but it's no different than a mechanic having the best tools to do their job.
Nose Art?-----One of many my dad did while stationed in the South Pacific. *
Now for the rest of the story of aircraft above. It's a small world, my wife's maiden name is Tackett. Her dad, my FIL flew on that 24 plus another named Gus's Bus. He was responsible for downing many aircraft, was awarded many medals including two Distinguished Flying Crosses and two Purple Hearts. I never met him he died in 1968, He also flew with a later to become speaker of the house, James C. Wright. So just probably John and my dad Charley met in the South Pacific Theater. Scroll down to find Tackett, and Wright in the roster link below. * 530th Squadron Roster
Interesting it's on the right side of the plane. I think all the RAF and RCAF nose art was on the left side of the plane. Hell's Belle meet Chesty and Vicky.
both.
I wondered why it's only on the left but maybe it was an American thing to do it on both sides or there wasn't enough time to do both sides on a lot of planes, what with a war going on? They are works of art though. I would think they'd want the crews to be well rested before they went out.
Appeared to be a PB4Y, my Dad flew in those and was involved in the shakedown flights of many in '44 before sent to S Pac. He did not mention much of what he saw on bases overseas, Uncle was as tight lipped as were some pretty gruesome scenes was all he would note.
Might be, wouldn't know for sure until tail can be seen, just another plane to me. * Maybe get back to some engine assembly today, now that there is heat in the shop. Real frosty in there till I got the waste oil heater going yesterday.
Went back thru Pop's notes, the photo was a B24, Fuselage is shorter cockpit to wing root, NAVAIR had a Engineer Station added made it longer. Lots of both Made. Engine Nacelles on early 24s were oval, that one was a early with Oval Nacelles. This was one of final PB4Ys
What brand is yours, and does it require outside air compressor? If you don't mind me asking. I keep looking at them, if nothing else as a way to get rid of used oil. The ones I was around 15-20 years ago were fussy about burning and igniters, and needed outside air. They certainly haven't gotten any cheaper. And only burning 1,000-1,500 gal of propane a year, its a long payback.
I was thinkin a smudge pot. Here in CA one could end up in jail!!
Energy Logic, it has it's own mini built in compressor. The brand was originally called {Black Gold} by patent. This one was $7k something. That depends on shop size/high ceilings, and is the door shut most of the time. See in this shops hey day--in cold weather running trucks in and out that furnace never shut down, ran all day long. Now in a tiny/little/small/puny construction business repair shop the doors are mostly closed----1000 to 1500 in propane wouldn't last, be gone in no time. Hell during the winters back lets say 6 years ago-we would burn 1,500 gallons of waste oil--all off our rigs, sometimes more. * These units are pretty steady-not too many issues if proper off season maintenance is done.
This one burns clear as can be, at the stack there is ZERO smoke. Ash is white.
That's a big flight crew how did they carry any bombs? *
Enough of this horse manure, sign painting, pen & ink drawings, nose art and old ass airplanes. back to 855's.
PICTURES TS Pictures!!! And that was the Squadron Fliers.
So went to the shop this morning and temp inside was 58, furnace running perfectly. Was 6 here this morning. * Already had rods, pistons and rings installed on Friday, so this morning I installed all six in block and camshaft, having the engine stand I really had to fart around to get a full 1.5 hours on install, cam 10 minutes. The reason I built the stand, too easy. Ready the rod with bearings, check that rings are in position lube everything set in liner. Roll engine to vertical install cap torque, roll back to horizontal. I really like being able to do a complete assembly in my street clothes. Everything is clean no crap to wade in, engine goes together like clock work, the way I remember years ago when I used a stand. Really after installing the crank and cylinder kits in this block, I wouldn't do another with out it at my age. Really any major shop or even a small one is stupid not to have one, the time saved combined with the safety factor absolutely makes it a must. The best thing I've done for myself in years. *
The new ones I looked at were $14,000 I can buy used ones between 2-$5,000 I can't really justify the 14, and I know the $3,000 ones are going to be older and problematic. It would just be nice when its cold like this to fire it up with free fuel. Of course, some more insulation in the shop would help. Glad the stand is working out well.
Well $14,000 things have gone up, The one I posted I installed summer of 2022, bought it from High Dollar Napa here in town. This one puts out 200,000 BTU IIRC the old Black Gold unit was 160,000 BTU IIRC. And IIRC the unit with out tank and stand was $7,500. So there must be some special types only offered in Missouri for $14,000. Hell I never would have ordered if it was that much.
Never buy a used waste oil heater, it will be beat to hell
Not beat-------------burnt to hell---the fire chamber will be burned out. * Correction. But it will be beat---as far as not many know how to work on one. First thing thrown away is the trouble shooting manual.
I had my hands install a propane heater and when they were done I saw the manual open and out. I was surprised and said wow you guys followed the directions, my hand said no they just set it there and that's how it landed open...... haha
I think a lot of the quick oil change outfits use waste oil heaters. I don't know if they have natural gas furnaces for back up though or for heating the small office portion.
Working along this morning finishing cleaning/assembling oil cooler, seals bushings in accessory drive cover, rear crank seal. Then office calls {you busy we got a trailer at columbia cold store can't move it's brakes are froze and no one in the area to make a service call} ok I'll go take a look. So drive 50 miles, three company drivers scratching their *** walking around looking hungry. They beat the hell out of four drums trying to free the brakes, only problem was the brakes were not froze to drums, air system was froze and not releasing. So caged the two axles, third was ok and moved it to Penske shop. * Now the issue here is three drivers two with about 12 years between them, had to pass airbrake test/cdl, all three didn't know, didn't look, didn't check to see if releasing. Now I have a issue with the fact that drivers also are brake inspectors under the cdl requirements for air brake. * My Happy *** they are.-----I wasn't going to lay under a frozen trailer I told myself--I told myself- I told myself.
Sad state of understanding. All too easy to know after that many years.
Wouldn't the 1st thing to consider be that the air lines are froze? That's why they make special antifreeze for air lines. Even caging brakes should have been right up there to get the trailer moved. Sounds like they were playing dumb so someone else would go under the truck to cage the brakes. Hope you made them do it and charged them a lot.
There was no playing dumb-they are dumb. Problem is only a few trailers with drum brakes left in the fleet, most all are disc including tractors. Not freezing up is the one saving grace of disc. Although the air still can. Plus the thing with disc no one can really tell what's going on unless you know air disc. Drum brakes are becoming a thing of the past, and peoples memories are about as long as what's hanging. * The other thing everyone on here takes it for granted it should be known. The only thing a driver in todays world keeps track of and remembers---is when he's getting low on ------- Little Debbie Snacks!
Hey- I like me a Swiss Cake Roll now and then. You be nice to Debbie, she's gotten me through some pretty rough afternoons.
One of the main share holders in Little Debbie lives in College Place. Trivia. The inside of those cranes covered in swiss cake roll crumbs and wrappers.
I think it was early last year they stopped selling Little Debbie cakes in Canada. A few month's ago they stopped selling Kleenex in Canada. Seems like a pretty big market to drop out of. Maybe they couldn't keep up with Canada trying to stay warm eating snack cakes and blowing their runny noses??
That’s sure gonna look good at my place when you’re done…..
The triangle pieces from the bottom of the roll always fall off. Its a design flaw that I'm forced to live with.
Little diabetus
Pick the image that fits you. *
Back to 855's.
Nuke has two 855s on Gensets, two on fire pumps. Nobody in house has a Clue how to read service manuals or has experience working on them. Cummins had to call a Tech in from PA to inspect head leaks and offer a repair plan. None of local Cummins techs knew what to look for as are not X series. Last full timer on Onan Gensets retired last year. All four are Small Cam. Also an 1160 sitting as a genset driver in a emergency service building, wanted Cummins to inspect for continued service, no gots nobody to do that!!! All installed mid 1970s. Genset for security backup is a 16v92 siamese engine. That is also becoming a lead ballon.
I have been running a Clean burn waste oil heater for 15 years. look simillar to TS black one. has 14,000 hrs on it. great unit with very little maintance.
Here's the funny thing-Dwight the wheat farmer x cat mechanic friend has no trucks at this point with Cat power. Quote {The old B models are great-but cost too much for what I'm doing}. From a Cat guy, everything is N14 or BC.
That is kinda scary. Safety and security depending on almost 50 year old equipment.... Hospitals and such around here have to replace/update/upgrade on a regular schedule based on many factors, including age. Hours can be low, no matter. Let’s think about it; how many hot starts can you expect bearings to take before failure? Even with pre-lube there’s bound to be some damage.
I don't think the risk of the starts are a problem---but one that is-Old, liner O-rings leaking very slowly because of age, coolant in the basement. I get a kick out of people starting a wet sleave engine that's been setting for X amount, and the seep starts. IMO.
Bars leak has been keeping the coolant upstairs in the c12 for many miles. If it blows up I'll put orings in it. Stupid idea cat had there with only 1 oring on the bottom of the sleeve.
Nuke is beyond ignorant on rules. The plant owners have to write up a Final Safety Analysis Report (FSAR) as per NRC Decrees when constructed, has to label by Builder ID Plate every piece of machinery inside that report so to replace pieces with a newer Like/Kind have to rewrite amend that report where the NRC takes YEARS to approve those amendments Idiots in Government Red Tape factories, no idea what they are looking at as a Like Kind Replacement as does not have the exact same Builder ID Numbers. Hospitals, Jails, IT or FCC systems, even the Fossil Power Stations have no such garbage requirements. 80% of the machinery in a Nuke is no longer produced, builder went out of business, cannot get a New Builder to prepare the quantified Pedigree paperwork for a “N” stamp on the final product.
Fairbanks supplied the 14cyl emergency backup generators for loss of site power for emergency core cooling (ECCS) built by Colt/Pielstick they are beyond obsolete. 6.2mw generators are fast becoming seriously difficult buy parts for. Switchgear on them is archaic, yet the NRC declined to accept a writ to allow researching replacement units. None of the installed 855s or that 1160(K) or the 16v will get replaced, takes millions $$$ in paperwork just to consider. Is why most of the older plants are just closing and being torn down.
TS, you still have own Timing Set? Mine went to sale a few years after left the last garage. Kept small tools and 3/4 torque wrench but not the expensive ticket stuff.
Have two, one is out on loan.
KING of the Tool Owns!!! Damn. I always thought having DD and Cummins tooling like that was great, cost me a bundle in the day, dared NOT lend out and when sold was to the last Open shop had worked at. That and a few assorted Cat Timing pins/small specific tooling(Spline Sockets) did not feel a need to keep. KW Leaves, all that tooling goes to JY.
Only DD stuff I have is Series 60. And a few cat odds and ends.
ALL my DD stuff is at JYs
Started at 7 am, set and torqued cylinder heads, set injector cam timing, installed accessory drive cover, set cam end play, installed accessory drive. Parts showed for compressor, already honed ready to go, installed rings/piston, crank and front support, assembled unloader finished install, and painted a bunch of stuff. which included a trip to napa. * Timing was quick guessed at .032 of gaskets which is a total of two at .016 each. Dead on at .070 nominal injector travel on all #1-#3-#5. I've done so many through the years that using the 1596 offset key it's a very good bet to stack two at .032 to start with. 80% of the time travel comes out at 70 or 71. Using only one .016 gasket usually comes in at .074 travel retarded/slow. * Oh was out of there by 1.
Much more efficient than I.
Weekend no interruptions. I got the heads back Thursday morning at 4 am. But I had a phone call the night before about running to Moses Lake-Simplot to bring one home. Simplot has a really bad dock to bump there, blindside with some real bad obstacles plus it was a new driver {old guy but new to company}. Anyway he rolled a little to far forward in the dock {the ramp breaks over at end of ramp causing high centers if driver isn't on the ball}. Well he wasn't and ripped dollar size holes in both fuel tanks and skinned up a air tank. Fuel tanks were 1/4 full. So I hooked one in Pasco, hauled it to ML drug the dead one from under trailer rehooked. * Had some used tanks from a wreck last Jan so spent 2.5 hrs Friday morning changing those and repairing air tank straps. * Now for figuring cost of tow. Nationally the operating expense across the board, including all license fees, insurance, permits, fuel, tires and so on is $1.69 to $1.72 average. To make any money to cover future expense and owner profit the rig has be making another .75 cents a mile to be profitable, so figure $2.50 at base, best margins are $2.75 to $3.00 per mile. * That tow was billed out on a radius which is floating, the further out the less per mile the closer the more per mile. Total mileage was 245 @ 4.25 per-mile=1,041.25 divided by 6 = 173.50 an hour. The tow truck gets 8.0 to the gallon which it burned 30.6=$150.00, My wages at 6 hrs $270.00-So 420 in direct expense which leaves $621.25 to the truck. In order to constantly know money is being gathered-operating expense needs to be subjected to a radius figure to keep a steady rate of return, no matter the business. Just throwing a hourly rate doesn't do it.------It's my thread and all comments can be keep to themselves. Because I know folks just can't help themselves. * but what is really cool-that truck is covered under freightliner coverage on tows, Freightliner will pickup most of the tab. But you don't want to gouge them over the bill Freightliner doesn't like that.
Will state it again, far more Efficient than I could ever be.
See this item--a engine lifting eye for 855 Cummins, part # 170226. Dumb F@cking mechanics for years when doing overhead adjust or rebuilding jakes or replacing head gasket or injectors, would just toss these. Like who gives a ****, it's in my way don't want to be bothered with putting it back together correctly, so toss it over the shoulder kick it around on the floor awhile. Never mind the fact it's needed for removing/installing engine. This one is very used--for sale on ebay for $54.00 plus shipping, new from Cummins $90.00, Average price new aftermarket 75 to 80 bucks plus shipping. For a stamped out piece, that is what greed inflation does folks, the spacers that go below it $30.00. I would like to shove one of these up the *** of every mechanic that left it off including the owner operator, at least then I would know where to find some. *
And there was Freightliner in the 70s installing FARR box air cleaners on top on engines in COEs, moved the front one to the absolute rear or did away with at factory, spacers missing so had to scabbage one or two for engine pulls, great days for truck builders.
Freightliners that had those type air cleaners came with a little fabric bag that had two lifting eyes in it from factory, but like everything that happens--driver{ what are these for? after a few months bouncing around in side box in the garbage those went.
I had forgotten that, and do remember that now.
I have one if you need it It was $45 off fleabay when I bought it. The shop that pulled my engine in Ellensburg didn't have them and I was scrambling to get the engine out. They ended up borrowing some from another shop and not using this one My buddy that worked for Cummins said they would routinely only use one. If the trans was still attached it balanced pretty well on the back lifting bracket. Seems like a lot of weight for a single bracket What are the spacers that go below it for? I don't remember needing those
I wouldn’t trust a single lifting bracket
Which shop in the burg pulled your engine? I've seen one only used, there is a reason there's two. * I'm going to my friends trailer full of old stuff today, more than likely there are some there. Thanks for the offer.
Always preferred the Cummins made Lifting Bar thru BOTH eyes, been there with chains and a home made bar but not the same.
It was Mobile Fleet Service at the time. Now Bruckner’s They were hesitant to pull it at first but ended up pretty easy to deal with. I did have to drive up there from Tacoma just to point out that the power steering lines were backwards. They couldn’t get it to move after putting it back in. Can’t really complain though. They let my truck and trailer sit there for months while I rebuilt the engine
Let me know. I need to go through all my stuff left over from the build. Lots of stuff I hope to never need again. Have the boring tool for oil pump bushings
That happened long after I left there. ** was only there for awhile, don't know Bruckner. * I found some this morning--I only install new oil pumps. On BC's spacers go on the rocker box studs then the lift bracket and nut.
Right on. Well, it's here if you want a spare I found the boring tool at an auction place. Looked like .gov surplus. Metal box with an NSN on it. Had never been used, parts still in wax. Not sure what else it does, there are all sorts of adapters with it. It was cheaper to buy that and rebuild my pump than buy a reman How tall are the spacers? I'm having a hard time picturing how those work and why they're needed. Can't find reference to them on quickserve. IIRC there were three different stud heights on the bolts
3/4," The depth of the bolting area on SC & BC, was used to raise the lift bracket so the holes for chain or hooks was above rocker covers. N14 doesn't use them. * If you look in this Cummins online military manual-scroll about 7/8 the way through and you will find all the Cummins special tooling, along with part numbers for every nut and bolt, seal, all parts and pieces. covers BCI---BCIII. I have BCII also same basic list. * https://barringtondieselclub.co.za/...-n855-bigcam/bc1-bc3-workshop-manual-abby.pdf
Was going to get top end finished this morning, installed injectors, crossheads and adjusted, fuel links, push tubes, set rocker boxes on and my phone rang--Stopped to tow one to La Grande, so made some cash and lost some time, but managed after I got back to finish torquing rockers and set overheads, then turned the lights out.
So it will be building oil pressure tomorrow? I can hear it now, beautiful sound, right off the back of the turbo!!!
Finish, wrap in shrink wrap and list for sale.
Makes me want to look for a truck with a dead Cummins.
I have a "good" l1990 10 and there is d truck up for auction with a bad 1999 l10, makes me want to do some work
Was just removing engine from stand and my phone rang. First thing tomorrow run to Pas{company-Penske yard} and bring one back---seems another company driver managed to back into another company tractor and punched a hole in right side tank . So another fuel tank swap. And it was a driver that has allot of miles under his belt, just can't read his mirrors I guess. $3,500 to get the lot cleaned for 50 gallon spill, cheap.
Off the stand. Finished and listed. *
That's beautiful! I know a guy who's main source of income is repairing and building new aluminum fuel tanks for semi's. Last time I went I went to his shop to get some new ports Tig welded on a slave cylinder he must have had a dozen tanks to repair. He does other specialty Tig welding too. He's also the original silver stick maker. He makes solid stainless steel and bronze exact replica hockey sticks for all the NHL teams. He sends them out for all the engraving. I'd imagine they aren't cheap but they are works of art. He has a pic. of Obama holding one when the Stanley Cup champions visited the White House. That's pretty cool seeing something he made in Canada in the White House with the president admiring it.
That is a beaut! Wish I had a need for it.
Its pretty, very nice paint, what brand of paint do you use? And did you hot tank the parts to remove old paint? I'd like to see more pictures of your engine stand set up, did you build it?
Engine Stand Always wanted a engine stand like the ones I used years ago. Today I ran on some luck, the local JD dealer has been cleaning out any tool that don't have manufacture tag with rating. This stand was built by a guy I knew in the shop about 40 years ago. Bolted to the floor using old drill press... HeavyEquipmentForums * Engine was steam cleaned then washed after machine work at PMS Spokane. Paint is standard engine paint/spray can from Napa.
The shop that did my Cat engine just used spray bombs too.
If I lived closer I'd help you build the engine stands for something to do. I think you could get $4000-$4500 and the buyers come pick them up or they arrange the shipping. It's built very heavy duty. My former neighbor had a couple old JD 95 combines that went for scrap when the scrapper came to clean his place up.
I know where 8 more 95 model drives are setting, lots of them around in these parts.
Could be a great opportunity to make big $$$$$. LoL
Too many different water pumps to not put one on?
Buyer can put one on.
Salvage yard I have dealt with for years and buy engine kits from was by today taking photos of that engine for possible sale. They just sold one like it two months ago for 20K. * While there the discussion turned to the possibility of building some engines for them in the near future. They supply the kits, the rebuildable core Cat, Cummins or Series 60. Not a for sure thing. * Hagerman Inc. | We offer everything you need to keep your truck moving.
That would be cool, need more old iron in the world
I'd bet your rebuild is a lot more precise than what the salvage yard would do. The salvage yard was probably impressed with your engine stand. Could be a good thing for you if they give you some leeway and not ridiculous deadlines to be finished.
Too funny, I spotted this 129594 Cummins flywheel for sale on ebay. Real nice except who ever machined it doesn't know much about 15" flywheel's & clutches. When the friction surface is cut the outer centering lip has to cut the same amount or the possibility of the clutch not bolting flat to flywheel mating can cause clutch slippage plus break the mounting bolts. Area in Blue. *
That reminds me that I need a flywheel for a 6 bt
Decided to use up a bunch of parts I had left, made a complete out of it. * Machined block {decked counter bored for lower press fit liners with shims just like a N14} 6 rebuilt rods, 3 completely rebuilt heads with all new valves and injector sleaves. Std crank, reused perfect cam & followers. NOS 3529040 Holset single entry turbo, jakes gone through. Rebuilt compressor, rebuilt accessory drive. New crank damper, new oil pump, new water pump, new Delco 8200308 high torque starter. Reman injector pump, reman Cummins injectors. Turned 15" flywheel, cleaned & pt'd aftercooler, cleaned & resealed oil cooler, new camshaft bushings. Test fired, ran 49 psi cold at idle which is on the high side {spec is 40 to 46}. Timed at nominal 70. I'm listing it here, so people-if any interested can ask without a PM.--Price is still $16,250. I know where to buy parts and get machine work done without the cost of arm and leg. You can't build one for this. Jakes were energized while running to check operation. *
Very very nice
Ah--thankyou.
I want that engine . . . I just don't have anything to put it in . . .
Last BCIII I was into was in 1990
Sharp looking engine, probably nicer than when it out of the factory. @Truck Shop , when you build up your Big Cam engines, do you always build them to the same specs? I've tried to follow all of your discussions on engines, and I was just wondering if there is one CPL, or personal combination you found that really makes a nice Big Cam, or if you build them to a variety of specs? Sorry if you've answered that question before.
If it was going to be a BC II, I build to CPL 449, BC III either CPL 531 or 625, BC I CPL 393. 449, 531, & 625 all use the same piston liner kits-same compression ratio of 14:1 and timed at 70 nominal 69 is fast 71 is slow--injector timing. Some like to retard to as much as 75 but these engines smoke cold, when timed 72 to 75 they really smoke, but pull allot harder. the faster the timing less smoke cold. It does give a quicker throttle response but don't pull quite as well. The BC I 400 was a little different it used a higher compression ratio of 14:5 and was timed at 65, then Cummins did a reset on timing for the 393 to 68. But most have been redone with later 14:1 ratio and timed at 70. Still the 393 in original form ran pretty good. The major difference in these CPL's-BC I used a lower flow aftercooler {not by much}, single oil filter. 449 shared the same aftercooler as the 531, 625, 449 still had single oil filter. BC III had the the full flow and bypass oil filters. All used the same camshaft although there is about 9 different part numbers for the same cam. The total difference was in pump & injector settings & injector flow rates. The 449 had a slightly lower rail pressure with a higher flow injector, was a dirty engine but ran well. The one big difference in 393 CPL was the fact it was in the last of the BC I's, from then on BC's used longer head bolts, the early BC I engines used the shorter head bolts of a small cam, 393 had long bolts. * Best I can tell you.
That's a great price. I spent almost half of that getting a 3204 rebuilt not including the injection pump almost 20 years ago. What determines the HP and is there a certain HP for each model that's most desirable for longest engine life? I've always heard of owners turning the pump up but don't know if that reduces reliability or lifespan?
Ts do you know what HP ranges a cpl of 840 is?
840--Is a NT88 BC IV also listed as a NTC350. It has 3/4" main bolts instead of the earlier 1". It is also the first with lower press fit liners originally. Low flow cooling system, with the small stamped steel oil cooler, with a slightly different water pump. CPL's 839 & 840 were in some cases not some of the better, except for the LPF liners. Some BC III's came with the NT88 block, most all were Cummins recons. The issue with the 3/4" bolts was the mains only torqued to 255 lb ft, the early blocks with 1" bolts were 305 ft lb at the top of scale. Any NT88 this day and age would be headed for a line bore, 88's had a issue with fretting at block and cap mating area.
Compression ratio, cam/injector timing & injector and pump calibrations. There is a bad way to set up rail pressure--by removing the ball at end of throttle shaft and turning screw inside. That will only give so much and is not the correct method. Correct is changing the button and torque spring, but depending on factory settings 10% works out to two buttons larger. The engine above stock button is a #27, it now has a #22 which is 10% over fuel, stock rail IIRC is 168 it is now 190 or so. To combat high rail PSI injectors need to be flowed if anything over 10%. See a 449 cpl has a factory rail of 158, so knowing what each cpl rail psi is important. But these engines don't have iron top pistons like late engines only a double ni rating so they will crack and cams will go to hell with too much fuel-and not having a shop to correctly calibrate the fuel system. These engines will run along time at 10% without issues--it wasn't designed to be a rocket.
Nice work, someone will be getting a great deal there.
Steady work long life engines by CPLs. Do not self destruct and pull just fine. First BC1 I set cam timing on was a 400, boss had me set it exceptionally Slow and it smoked like a Driptroit. It is still running today some forty years later but has had head gasket issues since day one. Previous boss did not have blocks decked, instead insisted on Copper Coat spray to compensate for eroded wear. Not once ever worked. Last I heard was overhauled twice since mine. At 12 and 22 years. Old COE 9670 ih.
Thanks for the info ts, a friend bought a old truck with it and it's a good truck.
Nt88's were either decent or not so decent, no in between.
Yeah this one is pretty good, I drove it back in 2016 and I don't think it's had work done to it. The price he paid for the whole truck (water truck) was very good.
SOLD. *
The young man who bought it is from Weiser Id, has another truck with a 855. He asked if I would rebuild it for him. Plus I ended up with another complete BC III core & possibly a second BC III core CPL 625. Like I need more.
Wish I could get a few jobs like that. Just don't have all the connections I used to have.
I might be ending up with more than I want to do,,,,,,I've had a line on a 79 W900 A model. With a broken {real bad like} aluminum frame rail, it has a BC III 400 with a 14613. The cab, hood, grille, bumper are all real straight, the interior is in fairly good condition. Engine has blow by. * I priced out 2 Grade 8 A656 steel rails {blanks} 26' long $3,500. And I have a frame cutoff AG 400 on Eaton 3.70 ratio 404's plus a wider Rockwell 961 steer axle available for a real reasonable price. Wider steer for 385 22.5 steers. And a ST13000 Hendrickson drop axle all for a reasonable sum. The truck I have a feeling I can snag for under $1,500. And I already have a guy that wants it. Not that I need a huge job but it keeps me away setting on my ass looking at HEF threads. I could build a nice 4 axle out of those parts. Plus it has Ross box power steering.
I wouldn't want to get involved in whole vehicles don't have the space. And the body isn't what it used to be. You might do pretty well with that truck deal, but sounds like a full time job.
Neither is mine----but I need to keep going, and this is a way to do it.
Nice work falling upward into it. Great to have the choice, knowledge, and time.
I would love to get into that here, but have NOT the space. My own 900 should have Single Rails installed to replace the Double Rails. A little MORE WB would be an improvement for adding a Lift Steerable.
I understand why manufacturers came out with aluminum rails but around here they were a disaster
On a good note--the one almost bare block I had {used the cam and crank from it in the last engine I just sold} is already counter bored for 20x40 lower press fit liners with .020 shims. Plus it was decked and it's in really good shape. I got it out yesterday to check what I had, finished stripping it, knocked the cam bearings out, steamed it, had a local guy Bobs Eco Blast come up and blast the rust and crust off the external/outside of block. Cost $115 bucks-saved me about 7 to 8 hours cleaning. It is a Cummins Recon block, BCII. Had all the water ports inserted too.
Not tell anyone their business about what to use as a engine assembly lube but the one brand I have used for years is Sta-Lube CRC SL3331. It doesn't separate like Lubra Plate 105 if setting for period of time. But it will hang in there on a extended cranking period for first starts, I still like to pressurize the system with a oil tank. *
I still use Lubriplate. Change is tough for me lol
Yeah but you still have a foil hat with coat hangers too.
Years ago the 105 container/tube had a image of a outboard boat motor, that was reason enough for me.
Back in the early 90's thats what a cat shop used too. After some time it separates and comes out of the tube funky. Sta lube is supposed to be good stuff, and likely real good for old flat tappets.
This not only looks better than any factory reman offering, I'm betting its built 100% much better than one as well. Really a good job Truckshop.
If I know the engine will be started and used I have no problem with 105, will use assembly lube if know will set indefinitely. Regardless a new engine gets a prelube off a pressure tank prior to startup. Had no problem this method in Forty Five years of off and on building engines.
If I squirted 105 on top of a short stack of pancakes at a distance no one would know. Slightly warm it has the consistency of butter on warm pancakes.---- notice I didn't use the old guy term of {Hot Cakes}. Seems past a certain age men refer to a short stack as {Hot Cakes}. So 105 & Hot Cakes.
I still use the 105 because i also use it on certain hydraulic seals along with a Door-Ease stick
I have used a 60/40% mix of 15-40 and oil stabiliser for a lot of years. It also makes a good assembly lube for O-rings and hydraulic seals. Its really slippery.
Work with a guy that had a fellow worker who would eat the donuts but never buy any so he fill a jelly donut with 105 and the guy ate it, didn't even notice the difference. When they told him later he still didn't believe them, but never ate the stuffed donuts again. The shops I worked at all had 105 so that's what I use and same as mekanik said for o-rings, and moly paste for head bolts.
Like I said--not telling anyone their business--you like 105 on your short stack, have at it.
Latest core a BC III 350,, It has allot of useable parts but---remember that adage people like to use---If you can work on a Briggs & Stratton you can work on a Cummins. And what I said about the fact there must be allot Briggs that don't run worth a ****. * This core----Total wrong cam/injector timing--cam was keyed as a 400 not a 350--Max gaskets allowed is .080 to correct advance--it had a stack of .087. Bleed tube from return fuel to pt pump pinched off---didn't need it because someone hung a non afc 335 pump on it. and pinched off the boost tube to afc. Turbo was a old Garrett from a 335. Plus wrong compression ratio-- had 14.1's in it. Wasn't a cylinder that didn't have broken rings. * But the good side---crankshaft and camshaft were still in perfect condition-despite the----- diesel dick that put it together.
That steel line is important. Most mechanics have no idea why its there. The shop I started working on trucks at in 1980 was opened in 1959. The engine room had a treasure trove of old Cummins manuals and training material and service bulletins. Someone who worked there years ago never threw anything away. In the early 1960's Cummins was having a problem with the gear pump failing on the PT pumps. The rear bearing area was wearing and the gears would wear against the housing causing low fuel pressure. This problem was more common in areas with a lot of steep terrain. Cummins determined that the problem was caused by trucks descending long hills causing very little fuel flow through the pump. The gear pump would get hot causing the wear. The front bearing area would get some cooling from the pump housing. Cummins came out with a "Cooling Kit" which consisted of a new gear pump with drillings to bleed some fuel from the rear bearing area of the pump through a drain line allowing cool fuel to enter and cool the pump. They supplied steel lines and fittings to connect to the return line at the rear of the rear cylinder head and a line to connect the pump to that line. Your old Cummins trivia for the day!
Correct----This pump had no drilled port for that bleed tube-which tells just how ancient it is. But also {old Cummins trivia for the day}---A person is a mechanic or not a mechanic. * People---think of it this way. Your dentist--your in the chair, you realize your dentist doesn't look familiar under that mask---and your correct it isn't your dentist. No it's the town plumber drilling/grinding the top off your tooth for a crown, you see your regular dentist couldn't make it there so his brother the plumber is filling in for him. But you shouldn't worry hell it's no big deal any jack of zero trades can do what a dentist does, and he just got done unplugging a toilet before dabbling in your mouth with bacteria ridden fingers.
I think it would be hard to find someone that has rebuild the variety of engines i have rebuilt. I alot of time wish i could have worked on more of the same instead of several different kinds or brands. I had really good luck and not alot of nightmares . Early on we used STP one of the main reasons to stop using it was it was messy . I was told if you got it on the rings they would never seat. I rebuilt a 350 Chevy for my pickup several years ago . Its setting in the shop i turn it over every so often . I have a dummy distributor to turn the oil pump with a drill to prime it if i ever get time to install the engine.
I have one of those dummy distributor shafts as well for a SBC. I built a small block 400 for my Dad's Camero years ago. That dummy shaft worked slick to prime everything before first fire.
I had one each GM, Ford and Crysler/odd balls as IH or AMC used many years. Sold to a kid getting in the business, he never panned out and left wrenching never saw adaptors again.
Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Triumph, MG, Datsun/Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Saab, Volvo, VW, All Fords, Chevy's & Chrysler/Dodge, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Cadillac, Buick, Porsche, International, Perkins, Mack, Cummins, Cat, Detroit, John Deere & last but not least Wisconsin, and a few I forgot.
Liked Wisconsins. Simple engines. Buick straight 8 in a small service tow boat was a challenge. Had to have running in three weeks from pull out and would NOT here of replacing with anything else. Dad always told us the straight 8s back two holes always ran hot, river boat work the engine purred like a kitten and actually ran cold.
You can have those Wisconsin engine I'm not sure any onlf them ever ran correctly or efficiently. I wasn't around for there hay day but the few I was around I hated with a passion
Tended to be quirky, distributors were touchy yet if bushings good and cam not worn too badly were strong firing engines. Did not ever want to run one hot, gall a piston and were a royal PITA.
Also on the old Wisconsin's, with the V-4's you had to be careful with the distributors. Some of them were what I would call even firing and others were not. Not sure how to put it in words but where most four cylinder distributer cams were more or less square in some of the Wisconsin's the distributor cams were more of a trapezoid, if that makes sense!
The V4D's V65D's had tapered roller bearings on the mains of the crank, IIRC.
"You can have those Wisconsin engine I'm not sure any of them ever ran correctly or efficiently. I wasn't around for there hay day but the few I was around I hated with a passion" I agree. they were a pain in my butt.
I rebuilt many for bailers.
A kubota diesel is much better or about anything
The Wisconsin is about the same as a detroit two stroke--both a pile.
I think I'll take a whole fleet of Detroit over one Wisconsin
Glad to hear all the good news! I just bought a swather with a Wisconsin, V65D I think. Runs good but I'm sure I'll learn all about it in time. Hopefully it'll take awhile, only gonna need it for a half day a year. If worse comes to worse, I'll cut it off behind the tires, weld a tongue on the side with a power shaft and make it a pull type.
Could always repower with a detroit
Idk those old two strokes I hear are very valuable, might be pricey
One of the V-4 Wisconsins we had was on a Marlow water pump. That one was a crank only engine, no electric start. That one got both my dad and myself with the crank handle between the eyes! I know not suppose to keep cranking only pull up through compression on one cylinder at a time. Last one I worked on was on a wood chipper I borrowed from the brother-in-law of a guy I worked with to chip up the small branches from a tree that fell in my yard. Of course I spent ten times as long fixing things to get it to run as I did using it. But at least he paid for all the parts!
V65 is a overhead valve, the V4D is a flathead. * Young people usually rave over or hate things they've never really dealt with. It's the part of {Old School} they just don't get and never will.
Now that I think about it the first V-4 Wisconsin I worked on was in a very early Bobcat skid-steer. That was one of the Bobcats that were not hydro-static drive. Engine had an hydraulically adjustable pulley on it and a wide V-belt that transferred power to the steering clutches. Those four clutches were engaged by a cam system in each drive box on the sides. I think that big pulley put too much side load on the crank as the one were had managed to snap the crank I believe just inboard of the rear taper roller bearing. To fix it we went to some farm near where the working group leader lived and pulled an engine off an old hay bailer that had been abandoned years before. Took crank out of that engine and the broken off end of the original engine to the local machine shop and they machined the end of the "new" crank to match the broken one! Not sure how long it lasted but it ran when we shipped it back to the plant that it came from.
When I worked automotive machine we would see at least seven every winter from swathers & bailers. The V4D because a flathead if left out would get moisture and stick the valves. The head bolts normally would snap, because of that issue I would just go through with a air gun and twist them off. Set the cylinders up in the Quickway and drill & helicoil them all put back together with anti-seize. The rods on those were poured babbit, so rods were converted to insert bearings. The distributors we set up in a Snap On distributor machine/tester, we could completely tune the distributor before installation, rebuilt the carbs. They would fire instantly & run smooth. Most every shop back in those years had a distributor machine, every distributor when I worked foreign car was pulled and set using that machine--tune ups were a snap. You knew just how much curve at any rpm, some would turn enough rpm to actually see points float which told you whether you installed a good brand. We used allot of Standard ignition parts back then & had the best luck.
Must have been a 610 or smaller for the sidewise engine. The M700 we've had for years has the VG4D motor in it.
610 does sound familiar!
Agree on the stuck valves in the flatheads, seen that more than once with the water pump engine we had for a few years. Not recalling any snapped head bolts, maybe just lucky. As for the distributer machine never lucky to have access to one of those, but then 95% of what we worked on was diesel so other than a couple odd-ball gas starting IH diesels not much call for distributer work other than company pick-up trucks.
In this case I feel quite alright with that
The top row near exhaust manifold were the bolts to give trouble. * You need to work on a fix it again tony X19.
I still run a VG4D in a portable compressor. The engine was originally off an old Hesston self-propelled swather— one of the first models built in the mid fifties. I was lucky to score an original service manual/parts book. To help with the sticky valves, i occasionally dump some 2-stroke oil in the gas tank. They were quite a popular engine in swathers and light industrial small machines. They have their quirks. I would rather work on them than some other engines.
Heh... If you notice, the back door on that is about 8" out from the frame. That has about 200lbs. "extra" hanging off the ***... Who ever put that motor in didn't remove the bell house or flywheel. Who needs bolt on external weights????
Flywheel is what delivers torque on these.
Forget what it was on but did see something just this afternoon parked in a lot with one of those VG4D or similar engines on it. Think it was some kind of construction machinery. I was busy watching traffic on the way home with the "new to me" 72 inch Woods mower deck for my Farmall. With any luck I should have that mounted tomorrow and get cutting some grass.
Concrete saws use Wisconsin V4's. I always thought Wisconsins were regarded as long life heavy duty engines.
Between ag pumps and concrete sawa was where I saw the ones I worked. Always amazing as nearly buried alive in Saw dust these engines would survive. Schuman Paving had four saws, i nearly had one saw engine in state of overhaul every month in summer as they had a fifth as a spare, Emerald View Sod had seven pumps. Pumps would nearly always have first start issues as dried down over winter. Gas was drained but carb gaskets would shrink oil drained off old rings, valves hang and mud dobbers heaven. Still dependable as any abused engine I ever had to throw back together
Agree, that water pump engine that smacked me and dad while at times hard to start would run for hours unattended pumping water out of quarry pit. It was set up with an old round saddle tank probably 40 gallons or more. Run all night unattended and check oil when refilling the tank.
I have one that the crankshaft is cut off and one cylinder on each side pumps air and the others power it. It was handy till it blowed a sealing ring in the head of one of the air compressor cylinders. Its been seating for 25 + year. When i get it dug out if its stuck i will scrap it.
Looks like a Wisconsin powers this Austern Western roller.
Darn auto correct. Should say Austin Western.
We always used Marvel Mystery Oil in any of the air cooled engines. Made a real difference with the Wisconsin engines. I still use it in my mowers and the welder.
In place of motor oil or add some with motor oil?
Mixed with the gas. Ratio on the can or bottle says 4oz to ten gallons. I don’t think much of it burns in the cylinder, but it does lube the valve guides and stems, an I’m surehelps rusting valve sticking in storage. Old practice; probably not necessary with modern engines but it has worked for me for years. The suggestion to use two stroke oil is a good one, and I imagine would work just as well.
Here's about a 1930 100 HP Wisconsin in a Cletrac 100 crawler. Largest of the day.
Is there any use or value to a small cam cummins?
I'm very curious as well. Cheap Stationary power in very least! (671's are very good for this)
marginal.
Around here there are still a number of old Versatile tractors still running with 855 small-cams
What's bad about it? Low power, not reliable, low flow cooling system? I'd actually like to use some for stationary power if I'm ever not broke
The small cam engines had a few issues a lot were fixed as the engine evolved into the big cam. Adding a second pair of oil pump gears to feed unfiltered oil to the piston cooling nozzles, a piece of debris would find its way into a piston cooling nozzle and cause a piston failure. The full flow oil cooling system fixed that. A big key in the taper nose crank that would crack at the end of the key-way and the end of the crank and the damper would fall off. The straight nose crank with the six bolt flange fixed that. The NTA 400 small cam had injector lobe wear problems and cold starting issues even on a warm day. The big cam went from a 2" diameter to 2 1/2" diameter journal this allowed for a longer ramp on the injector lobe and greatly increased life. Crowned cam follower rollers were a big help too. The later model small cam engines 350 HP or less were quite reliable and gave good service life for the time.
So very minimal demand for one then?
Small cams were fine if left alone-stock. The biggest issue for any of the small cams & early big cams was liner leaking issues. The lower press fit liner introduced in the small bolt blocks {NT88's} stopped that. All blocks from then on were lower press fit. Yes taper nosed cranks could break, yes the cam in the small cams would/could erode the ramps--but allot of that was caused by over fueling stressing the cams. Over fuel a big cam too far without flowed injectors and the same will happen. * CPL 495 was the small cam 400, timed at 56. It wasn't a successful endeavor for cummins.
When buying a new truck back then, could you spec what CPL you wanted or just the horsepower and took what they wanted to give you?
You could spec horse power--the CPL was tied to the updated engines as per year. BC-I's ran from 76 up to 79, with many updates. BCII was late 79 to late 82, BCIII 82 to late 85, BCVI late 85 up. Just as Cat, Cummins was what was available at that time. But Cummins had several engine model choices. This last Monday I was in Spokane at the machine shop where I have work done. They had two very expensive dinosaurs in for work- a E9 Mack with very major block work $$$$. The other a KTA 600, all six heads were junk {major cracking and had already been surfaced too many times. $3,800 each was the price, cam followers $3,000 each--but the block needed major attention, so best guesstimate was $67,000.
The KTA’s were expensive even before prices got stupid
Really 3K for followers each?
No call for them--That's cummins price-might find {I say might} for half that. Complete rebuilt aftermarket for a BC 855 are running $500. Just roller kits with pins are expensive. Not too many KT's running around--too heavy for one and like the fuel.
Latest one on the for sale block--Very complete with Premco pump & injectors set @ 12% over fuel match flowed. Roughly 440 hp. *
Very nice and exceptional paint job! Looks better than new.
You need to open a small school.
Why?
Because you're the Professor when it comes to trucks and engines! A lot of people could learn a lot from you.
It’s too late. I think he retired! Somewhat. For awhile. Maybe…..
just never wanted to, and don't want to at this age, a mission/life goal for someone else. * professor---not. * Had someone contact me today about rebuilding a long block 4MG-B model. Maybe/maybe not, all depends on how I feel at the time. That last engine is definitely going to be a high miler. It was stored inside for 18 years, a very low mile Cummins recon. The truck caught fire with only 90K on the block. The deck & counter bores were perfect, already cut for lower press fit with shims. New piston/liner kits, 6 rebuilt rods, 3 completely rebuilt heads, new head bolts, new oil pump, new water pump, new Delco starter, rebuilt compressor and accessory drive, perfect Std crank, perfect Cummins camshaft, 6 new injector rollers, pump & injectors rebuilt and flow matched-very snappy throttle response, new turbo, model 400 jakes, high velocity aftercooler-cleaned and tested, oil cooler cleaned & tested, machined 15" flywheel, new vibration damper, new piston coolers, timed @ 71 thousands injector travel on all three 1,3,5. liner protrusion @ .006. Test ran-oil psi cold @ idle 47 psi, jakes energized/tested. Block is a Big Cam 2 with large 1" main bolts, I had lots of BCIII parts so built it into a 3, should make 440 hp, cummins built a few rated at that with same basic parts-nice engine.
I didn't mean Truck Shop should necessarily be teaching. He deserves professor status for his 2nd to none knowledge and experience with trucks and engines. He's also a world class artist to boot. His drawings are on par or better than what Chip Foose and Dave Kindig do for custom cars and pick up trucks. He could have a gallery and people would pay good money for his artwork. Professor isn't a bad title to have.
Just saw it on Facebook Marketplace. Best looking quality item on that website. I just don't get how other people won't even clean the trash out of cars and trucks before taking a photo and posting them forsale there, oh and washing the moss of some old junker trucks as well.
Fact is--this a instant gratification world--people have a cell phone that takes all the perfect pictures they want instantly, no waiting. I have people wanting art work of their personal vehicles--as soon as I say it's $150.00 bucks the conversation stops. No, society wants those types of items for nothing along with everything else. It's all about {I want it and I want it now plus it better be cheap}. No reason for me to bother with generating anything from the mind-----between photoshop & artificial intelligence there is no reason for me to try. * humans are a miserable bunch to deal with.
I think there's some (maybe a lot of) people that would gladly pay $150 or more for your artwork. It's only the really cheap ba$tards that wouldn't. I think it could work if it was possibly at a truck or automotive show. Like if the buyer of your Mack put a show on with you there as the builder with your artwork and you offered to do custom artwork from pics. When I scrolling the internet last week a couple times I saw some guy advertising his automotive artwork and had a website. Pretty much every car was drawn the same way with the same background. They were colored but looked really cheap compared to your drawings. It didn't list the prices but really looked some guy trying to pass off his mediocre drawings as artwork. Maybe he had help from a computer. Have at least a little bit of variety in how the cars are positioned and the backgrounds. Yours are far superior.
Thanks Dave. * 99% sure this one is SOLD-picking up next week going to Burns Ore. Sold in 38 hours. I have one more to build into a long block and think that one is already sold.-------------------------------------- Then a 435/500 hp N14. *
Cleaning takes energy---the object for americans is to gain weight not loose it. * And the biggest issue--pricing. 90% of items for sale in privet market are way over priced. Wanting every stinking penny they can get their grubby greedy mitts on---good thing is they usually end up setting on it for months on end. Want to sell--then price it to sell, otherwise plan on setting on it. The old BS of start high you can always drop the price--- items like that loose the publics interest real fast, Marketplace is full of stuff that has been moved up 5 or 6 times over a 8 month period.
I saw a 2007 single axle Ford dump truck listed for $41,000 a couple days ago. I think you could you could buy a nice tandem for less money.
Yes prices are out there, vehicles are bad investments, but the idea these days that it's worth more than original price is betting that a idiot can be found to buy it. Yes there are plenty of suckers around, it all depends on whether a certain sucker needs it and can be lassoed. * Below is a perfect example--1980 aluminum frame--with a really messed up broken left frame rail right at the back of cab. It's only saving grace is the BCIII under the hood. rto12513 not worth squat, center point steer axle not worth squat, SQHD rears on Kenworth four spring suspension-not worth squat. Listed for 9K IIRC. It needs 5K worth of steel rails plus labor just to fix the main issue. Nuts. *
Truck Shop are you a fan of aluminum frames or prefer steel?
steel.
I kind of figured so.
Just something really nice about the above statement--it bugs people because it's fact. {people like being the f@ker not the f@kee, right up until the table is turned--.
Funny--I've had several say {not much call for these engines now}. If I had two more I could have sold those today too.
Here there's next to none left other then beat farm trucks any thing pre 2000 is pretty much rusted to the melting pot by now. Unfortunately.
That's one of the luxuries of living in the land of rust.
An oversimplified phrase, if it were only that simple. {strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men create hard times. Way over used, rather strong people. But most ideas like this about society are oversimplified and under thought. Mostly what takes place is the perpetual sowing of seeds of societal destruction by society as a whole, everyone has a hand in it, the so called strong are a part of it as well. * and back to Cummins.
With the talk in the Wyoming road thread of grade, an area the Cummins out shined them all was the engine brake power. An 855 had way better jakes than Cat or Detroit. All due to better engine brake timing--all because of fixed injection timing using the injector rocker-- creating better exhaust valve opening closest to TDC. The 346 jakes on a B model Cat were poor at best & two stroke Detroit's weren't any better. There was the 349 jake for Cat 3406 B but not many sold, extra valving {oil control} made it a stronger engine brake. But it also had wear issues and parts for the 349 are just about non existent. The Jacobs model 425 has auto-lash adjusting screws which stopped the push tube bending issues with the 855 at high rpm.
Good deal, nice retirement supplement. Wish I still had my old connections. Only bad deal is its still like dealing with the public, especiallly when the new owner could do something to mess it up, then???
Here is a funny one I think. On facebook marketplace search ,(D8K Engine), what a price.
One of the reasons I try to sell complete engines. I don't want them inside it and I want to test run. If I think it's a experienced person {mechanically} I will sell a long block, as the next will be. Pumps are sealed and I used paint marking on some bolts, anything is changed on engine warranty of 90 days is void. But I don't fret over these engines---fretting is for those who have zero faith in their workmanship/ability and where they bought parts. I just make sure every item is right the first time.
This is almost too funny or too much--The next engine, just extended long block form is already spoken for, plus I believe I have a guy bringing me one to rebuild. And the guy is on his way at this moment to pickup the one I just finished.
Nice Other than the nice job you do. The other main selling point is the warranty you offer. Not many folks selling such things do that.
I would imagine Truck Shop gives very good info on installation and break in procedures and is always available if the buyer has other questions or concerns. Some sellers fall off the planet after they take your money. I think it's great he can work on engines at his own pace and make some money to boot. Wish I had something like that. I'm just battling insane amounts of water from all the rain and certainly not making any money at it.
Correct---A buyer has my phone number--I will answer what ever questions they have or take care any issues that fall within warranty time frame. But I'm picky about the people I'm selling to---if for any reason I get the drift by there talk that they are a abuser of equipment----------- no sale. I don't need to sell to that person--I hold the right to refuse service. The people I just finished dealing with father & son cattle farming business, straight up clean cut not trying to impress anyone---just wants a engine that will run hauling their livestock & hay. * If it takes a few months to sell a engine-that's ok. * First clue of a bad person to sell to----They start telling me what they know, if they know so much why aren't they building their own engine---because they are full of ****.
Yup, you don't have to sell to anyone you don't want to especially someone that sounds like they have frequent break downs due to their own abuse and/or neglect. Or someone expecting a lifetime warranty.
Wilder still is I have a C15 block sitting in my shop. Still considering what to do with that.
Sell it and buy a Cummins
When you bought that 2020--IIRC, there was a shortage and the prices hiked by the big boys. The prices haven't dropped so it's still worth what you gave for it. With the younger crowd doing their {tuning}----it helps the sales of parts---like heads & blocks. * Post it on FB Marketplace.
And to elaborate on that statement, I had to take the tow truck to La Grande dealer for warranty on injectors-two failed, taken care of. While I was there to pick it up this morning I visited with the service manager, known him for a long time. The discussion turned to parts sales & warranty. He said
Well I must say I have every bit of power out of the c12 that I can get. One of these days it will
The triggering factor in the assessment was certain OR numbers kept reoccurring, which were related to----you take a guess at the prefix.
If I was a betting kind of fellow id say nothing different the 6NZ!
Well you should be riding around on steam boats--correct.
I really hate black smoke
About how much do you pay for the cores? And what is most desirable or sell-able?
It seems anymore guys try to build any c15 to 6nz specs and not elog the serial. I suppose that's all fine if the engine is done up correctly. But how many out there really can do it.
I did. BXS block could care less what the Elog s/n is. Per Cat here, they connect to Data Link, SN shows what they are to work on, from there they could give a crap. Nearly all their reman engines are as 'Frankenmotor' as this one, that from the Shop Foreman. There is NO Stamped number on a Cat Block, ANYWHERE. The data numbering is on a Tape Tag that may or may not make the trip over time so they fall back to DATA Link and Processor number..
BC Cummins--max is $500 bucks, normally I won't give more than $300. People have the idea there worth $1,000 to $1,500---Not even. 50% of BC cylinder heads are either cracked or have already been rebuilt several times and are too thin to deck. New height of head is 4.375 most are at 4.345, minimum is 4.340. The other is the block may already have the worthless Cummins counter bore repair sleaves, if so it's junk. Really the issue is 6NZ wasn't the only good engine, for some reason everyone got a boner over those numbers. Same with building a BCIII with 625 CPL---there are ten or so CPL's that are timed the same & use all the same parts, only difference is the pump & injector settings, and the pump is nothing more than which torque spring it uses, flow rates are pretty close to same. Turbos depended on which jakes were used. * As far as B model Cats go----Really it's not the prefix--it's the performance specification {Perf Spec} listed below AR#. For a B model the best perf spec was one for a 4MG-425 hp. Which I will look up and post here. * What's funny about this the 4MG @425 hp---it was the boner maker years ago now its just limp-- Soooo Last Year.
OT7879, Arr. # 9Y2448
It's the performance spec that goes with the 4MG. Because there were low & high rpm 4's.
The numbers I provided are from a 2328 bare engine high idle, 2100 full load, 18 degrees BTC fuel timing. The 0T7879 # is the performance spec.
That's correct OT7879 for perf with a torque of 1450, What I'm referring to is the OT9250 with a torque of 1550 and the only real difference is the torque spring in the pump, the rest is basically the same, pistons, turbo, nozzles, advance spring and so on--the 9250 would pull real well.
And back to Cummins. * Cummins built allot of stuff out of the same parts with allot of ODD CPL's. One that I really like is the CPL 1193--odd ball, NTA855P with a engine serial of 11792720. Cummins built the 444 with low flow cooling which is a STC Step Time Control. The oddity of the 1193 is it was built in 1995 era and is a STC engine with Full Flow Cooling and a special high flow aftercooler that would have been found on a MTV 475 hp twin turbo. The 1193 was rated at 450 hp. Cummins would throw their underwear at the wall to see if it would stick, I swear.
Two sales on one marketplace posting--already have a buyer for the last BC III 400 I will build. Machine shop called and block I took to them will end up with 6 counter bore repair sleaves, decked & crank housings line honed. Three new heads, 6 new con rods, Premco is rebuilding the pump & injectors match flowed to 12% over fuel, fuel lines to both ends, rebuilt accessory drive, NOS Haldex SS 296 compressor, with cleaned/tested oil cooler, new vibration damper, flywheel housing, new injector & rocker push tubes, rockers installed and overhead adjusted. An extended long block. Guy buying it has a BC I that keeps pushing coolant past the head gaskets. Just wants a engine he can operate without changing head gaskets every few months. * I have two choices for other engines I can build--Cat B model or a N14 afterwards. The Cat B model I have the luck of having a friend that was a EX Cat mechanic { notice I said mechanic--not tech} that has all the know how and tooling to rebuild the injector pump and advance for next to nothing---because I drive wheat harvest for him, I have him over a barrel.
That’s a handy guy to know. Only one or two guys left around here that really know what they’re doing with the B models. One goes back to the 1693 days.
Which is better, mechanic or technician?
On this thread, Mechanic. Technicians need not apply . . .
I've known him for about 28 years, He worked Cat Spokane, Pasco, Pendleton & here when Cat had a store here. I've had him rebuild a number of pumps for me through the years. He left Cat and taught at the Pen for a short time, then a farm came up for grabs near his dads farm--and went back to farming. Dwight below on a 6 he repowered, belongs to his dad. Dad won't let it go. Had to add a counter weight in front it likes to climb up on it's heels. *
I've got a set of 349 jakes for a B--biggest issue is finding parts.
I have matrix sheets for all the Cat B model performance numbers, were buried under a bunch of other useless papers. One of these days I'll get off my butt and post it on here after I get them downloaded.
What's really funny is when Dwight starts talking about all the screw ups that he saw take place when he worked for Cat---some were rather costly.
They all screw up. Heck even I do. Thankfully it’s the occasional fluke kind of deal. I have seen some serious cranium stuck in colon moves though from our local Cat and Cummins dealers. Also some deliberate misleading outright lies from Cat.
It's just a revolving door, just the crap I've seen through the years would fill a book. Problem is I forgot some of the best.
What makes a good mechanic and/or dealership is admitting to your mistakes instead of trying to cover them up or blaming it on the customer. I think of the most infamous dozer thread ever.
Well like my brother the doc always says---a doctor is the best at burying their mistakes.
Seems like most places are like that. Not all that long ago the local cat house laid off a bunch of their experienced guys. A few months later they were advertising and hiring anybody that had a tool kit and the ability to fog a mirror. Some of the old hands came back, a lot didn’t.
The problem with trying to hold a Dr. responsible is that they stick together better than glue to defend the wrongs of their colleagues. Perhaps if I had been properly diagnosed (or diagnosed at all) instead of being told, "Don't worry most back pain gets better" I might not have needed to use a catheter for likely the rest of my life. I certainly can't afford to hire lawyers to hold the Dr. accountable.
What's interesting is every time some one throws a spear at me--seeing all the ones who want to----hit the like button---worse than high schoolers. * Now when it comes to back issues--I don't think it matters which country your living in. The insurance combined with the medical field is going to give a patient the run around. I know I dealt with the same thing with mine.
No reason to, they owe cat nothing they did their job.
Techs---here's a great short story. My old boss called over to the shop to ask about some wiring a couple weeks ago. I walked over to the office he was outside by this Cascadia that had a bunch of shinny chrome brackets and led's all over it with custom flap light bars {junk}. Wanting to know what to do with the ones that didn't work. Seems a driver spent $2,300 of his own money and bought all the crap after he was told NO, no extra lights. Then he tried to install them, and found out he didn't have enough brain cells to complete the job. So without asking he goes to the first Freightliner dealer and they started the job, truck had to load so job never finished. Then he goes to another Freightliner dealer and they say the first one made a mess of it and removed that wiring and wired only so far because all the lights below cab kept blowing fuses, saying it needed resistors and extra relays and so on--never finished the job--charged A hair over $4,000 for their part which didn't include the first FL shop at $1,400. Neither dealer bothered to call to check/get a ok to perform the work. * Then he asked if I would finish it-----One hour later it was done, wired with separate circuit off a accessory fuse in distribution box on a spare factory rocker switch. * Driver----he got axed for it---sent him packing back to texas. * Technicians.
Best way to inform ones self about old happenings---bust open some books and read about it, don't set on your *** expecting someone to tell you. Want to find out what happened and why do it yourself. Snot my job to teach you, but if someone asks I will lend what I've learned, want to be in the drivers seat then act like it. Old people owe no one, they paid their dues.
Dr's. are paid regardless in Canada. The Dr., and I use the term loosely, thought I was just a junkie looking for a cheap high. He had some student come and access me by having me stand up and then feel my back. He came in, said "What do you want us to do for you, you're on strong meds". He gave me a prescription for morphine the day before. Didn't even bother looking at my chart on the computer right in front of him. Talked to me for 2 minutes and sent me on my way. I came in an ambulance and 2 paramedics had to help into a wheelchair. I was getting Torodal pills and morphine shots several times while on route to the hospital ER. Even to get me off the stretcher they gave another Torodal and waited about 20 minutes before moving me. They knew I was in excruciating pain. The ride in the ambulance was brutal! Even the ride home in my partners car, I swear I felt every single tiny crack in the pavement. That Dr. was beyond lazy. He was an egotistical a-hole with an attitude. Shouldn't be allowed to put a bandaid on a paper cut!
Been a Mechanic all my Adult Life, spent part time as a Nuke Plant Operator(Now termed Techs) and will always hold was a Operator and a Mechanic. Have little desire to go beyond where currently at, body all busted up, patches are wearing thin, keep fixing my own old junk keeping me busy.
I always give Dwight some crap about Cat attire--{Hey Dwight, how come your not wearing your hickory shirt, cut off logger pants complete with wood chips and fringe at the bottom, suspenders, and Whites boots while working on that Cat?} Dwight would normally answer {That's a dress up for Cat good o'l boys--wannabe's, I worked around enough of those types}.
I wear work boots any time doing work that requires them, same old lace up Carolinas always wear. Carpenter style jeans as extra pockets and Pocket T shirts, pretty well as dress to Drive truck or work tractor or work heavy stuff in shop. WILL Swap to tennies after done, as feet sweat like on fire and need a breather. Met a Cat 'Tech' after hours, wearing his Cat hat, Cat Boots and Name Tag Cat shirt. Asked why not clean up and go incognito, deer in headlights look!!!
hands on the wheel and foot on the throttle-WFO--normally and quite often that approach leads to a wreck. but what the heck I paid for a ticket to watch the carnage, hope it's a good show, talent is at a low level these days though.
When you drive a rig that's out of gear at 44 mph, wide open ain't so bad
History always repeats it's self, running at little late this time normally in jan, feb, mar. It's the floater that fights the whirlpool, you can even tarp it and still it's hands and feet are kicking under the tarp.
Dwight stopped by yesterday talking about upcoming harvest. Conversation strayed to the fact he being a ex cat mechanic that all of his trucks are Cummins powered. A farmer in his area brought him a B model to rebuild the pump, advance & replace nozzles. The individual pumps are now $2,500 for all six, a complete rebuilt pump $5,000. By the time he's done 7 to 8 K in this job, he noted he could buy three heads, piston/liner kit & rebuilt pump/ injectors for a cummins and have better jakes too--at the cost of one complete fuel system job on a b-model cat. Thought I would never hear him say it--where is the advantage of the old b.
And you already noted the Coming Cummins problems, heads becoming thin, pump rebuilders also thinning especially Cummins here as they contract out PT rebuilds. Cheap only goes so far on the old stuff until runs out. My Ford pickup project, bought used doors as new were NLA, paid $600/pr, are now at $1500/pr. The old Eaton/Fullers, over ten years old as with Spud, also thinning herds. At some poi t become the next Model of Hupmobile for parts availability.
Truck I regularly drive has a DD13, fuel system bleeds down overnight, worse over long periods, have to take a hand pump at test port and prime system at times to get it to start. Shop near here replaced Injectors on one of last DDs that had done this, $13750 once bill was done. None are really cheap.
Agree that roundheads tearing up 12V is definitely a thing, as well as a few that can't lift their fat foot on big engines, or watch a simple gauge, but I'm not buying for a second that that fact has any bearing on parts sales as a whole on class 8 engines. The facts are there are a whole bunch of us out here trying to keep these good trucks on the road because the emission trucks are an absolute no go for us out in the sticks, and we're the ones buying the parts. Your 2019 Cascadia/Pinnacle/VNL/T680 has an emissions problem?? Sure, I'll just call the wrecker an have him drag it to Fargo to the shop. $2000 wrecker bill BEFORE it gets a laptop. $3000 shop bill (hopefully) Plus, now I have to have the wife drive me to Fargo to pick the ****ing thing up when/if it ever gets fixed. Oh yeah, let's do this once or twice a year (Or more). No thanks, I'll keep running the 60 series, N14, ISX, and ISM and keep patching the truck back together.
Hence why your Big Cams are sold before you get them built.
When I want your input on my thread---I'll ask for it--There's little in your post that's relevant. Don't like what I post in my thread--don't read it, simple. * reason engines sell is because I build a superior engine.
DD injectors run a little over 6K for a full set----so there must have been a issue with the high pressure fuel pump also.
Just have to know where to look. Attention was dropped for along time about keeping older cores and scrapping the rest, about 8 years ago I made the statement on here that eaton gear boxes would get tight on useable cores, with AMT's taking over. I remember Junkyard replying {then I should grab everyone I can get my hands on}.
Left yesterday morning to go to Spokane to drop off one block for crank housing bore/line hone, and pickup the finished block. Line honed, decked, counter bores machined. This one had fine cracks in the counter bores so had repair sleaves installed in all six plus 3 head bolt inserts installed, had tiny cracks to counter bore, then machined for lower press fit liners. Perfect machine work as usual. * And as was suspected both blocks had the dreaded Cummins bow in the crank housings. The block I dropped off yesterday is already done. Dion the machinist that does a majority of the block work told me it's really rare to see a small bolt block that isn't ever so slightly bowed, and Cummins had a passing grade even on blocks that were new. He said even Cat and the rest had their issues, he had a E model in the line hone tank at the time, not only fretted but crooked as well. But line boring is a thing of the past. Simply because way more work and most equipment wasn't able to cut all 7 at once, so it could still be off with the old tooling, line hone does all 7 at the same time making for a truly straight crank way. * Gave it a clean solvent wash/blow-out and set it in the engine stand when I got back yesterday. Went to work a 4 am, installed cam bearings, galley plugs, installed and torqued the crank, installed the liners right @ .006, installed the camshaft. Got too hot by 9 so dump the pistons/rods and install heads tomorrow morning. Time it on Saturday.
Oh Great And Excellent Talented TS, I have a small question of DD13. Old beast I drive is a 2012, has started Black Stacking beyond the fuel rail bleed away overnight. Started that today, as shift and step back into it, engine will 'Hesitate' or Stumble ever so slightly, then thick Hard Black stack but keep right on pulling, No slogging, no misfires and cleans up as passes 1700rpm. No Check Engine lamps. Suspicions are a Failing Injector(s) or the cause of the Fuel Rail bleed off.
Remove the large canister {4.5"} black plastic cover that contains main fuel filter & check for very fine metal particles in it's base housing. If the high pressure pump starts making metal it will destroy the injectors and in some cases never issue a waring light or code. We've had two do that on DD15's, one I found doing a routine service. Driver never had a complaint or noticed a power issue. I think I found that just as the pump was starting to give out, it never blew any smoke though. There is also a issue with crank case breather {called a spinner/separator} that can have issues, normally those start a external leak also {on the right side just above pan rail}. I'm guessing the 13 uses the same setup. * Oh Great And Excellent Talented TS? Excuse me while I put on my rubber boots.
Thanks!!
And to explain Cummins and or others process for checking straightness of crank housing bores. With main caps installed/torqued, two collars were installed in the front & rear main cap bores. A tube the exact diameter of housing bores minus .005 was slid through first plus a rod connecting the two collars tightened to a specific amount keeping tension on collars and supporting the tube. Sounds strange--it was. Tolerance was deemed ok if outer tube would slid/turn without too much resistance, if not it a line bore was required. That included measuring the ID of housing bores. But these days any fretting and a line bore is figured necessary on any engine. And that's fretting where the main caps meet the block surface.
We did the same thing on the big Alco V12’s, On the V16’s, we used a scope and mandrel’s with crosshairs fitted in the main bores, pain in the ass to set up, but never had a main failure or rod failure in the 30 years I worked on them. The Cat 3516’s we had were a different story
Was that an Autocollimator?
Would a line bore use new caps, or cut the old caps? How much is a line bore allowed to sink the crank into the block?
Timed it today also---a nice .072 of pushrod travel on all three. I have a stack of cam follower gaskets/shims made by three different manufactures, the stack is about 2.5 inches thick. Not all manufactures made the same thickness of gaskets, for example PDI thinnest is .007, and it can vary to .008 up to .009 same with the other various thicknesses. So by having a pile of gaskets I can come up with the perfect combination to land dead on the number I'm shooting for.
Depends--some blocks-new caps, but not with a 855, or many other engines. Normally the cap and block are both milled. And there is a installed rod/piston assembly height, and that has to be considered along with amount removed from deck. I have installed height dimensions just need to find it. New deck height max is 19.007, new minimum is 19.003, max a deck can be machined to 18.994. That is figured from centerline of crankshaft. Plus it also messes with crank/cam gear lash, which the minimum is .004 with a max of .012.
Height Installed Alignment. Wear limit 16.619, New minimum 16.628, New maximum 16.632. Max out of round main & rod .002.
These parameters for wear & machining I listed above----very, very few mechanics ever investigate or bother with the particulars. Snot their problem, it's the machinist problem, they are just the installer. It's a mechanic job/responsibility to check what he is sending out & getting back for machine work. I spent six years at automotive machine------------ it's a whole other world. All the lap top skills and rats nests of electrical trouble shooting equipment isn't worth a **** if the rotating mass isn't up to snuff.
Not many mechanics with either the skills or equipment to measure a 16-19" deck height. Im sure you can do it properly, but not many with your background.
This is what makes TS products very good. I've done this too, it can be time consuming stuff, its not a rush rush deal. And very cool to have that 6 years machinist back ground.
It made a huge difference in my ability to rebuild engines that last. Then & now----Then you could walk into most any mom & pop parts store and buy damn near everything to overhaul a small block chevy----people buy crate engines now, they don't want their hands getting dirty, don't want to think about what they bought. Just instant gratification {It runs-now the money please}. Zero threats to them, not responsible, snot there problem. But They Are just The Wizard of Id with a OBDII code reader, again no responsibility the code reader told me so. * How many rebuild transmissions these days? getting fewer all the time. it's all about the fast money.
ZF trans in my F250 has subtleties that most cannot accept. Small distortions of case lugs for clutch packs and case is junk, shafts been updated nine times in first ten years then that trans discontinued for next generation iteration. Rebuilders here are sparse, Ford authorized is only one still remanning these. The 7.3 in the pickup is fast obsoleting, both Ford and IH want them To just Go Away, eerily reminiscent of the MV404 446 IH once built that lived seemingly forever. The C15 in the KW is an oddity for trucks these days as are orphans to the industry even as Cat still uses the series in Heavy Machines. Small nuances on that block are a surprisingly long list. Expensive to overhaul properly the owners that have them are looking to trade them out. Almost as Orphaned as Allis engines in the 70s/80s.
The ZF is a tunnel type gear box--the gears are heat shrink installed. Plus it's a jigged mess to set up. And I'm not too sure on Ford still offering remans for the ZF. Towing was not advised in 5 gear. The Ag company I worked for had 16 Super Duty's with the 7.3 and 5 sp. I put a trans/clutch in everyone of those most were early 90's.
Since the introduction of the 5r110 and the vgt turbo, the no longer developed manuals are a bad idea to buy unless you are towing down the interstate in a 2wd hot shot rig
I maybe a outcast after saying I I hate the 6 speed zf that was in the 2000 on super duty I hate them with a passion
Mine was the lead auto for ZF in the Ford lines. Splines were too fine on the main shaft Sheared and lost most forward gears, next gen had coarse splines but destroyed the clutch drum hubs, they kept ‘upgrading’ replacement parts until two years ago.
Replacement is a mod package to S6-650. Not hearing anything good there either Aftermarket thpes are still building 4R100s
With the advent of better Class 7 Equipment and fervent DOT Regulation, those days of Ford, Dodge, Ram or any other Ton, Ton and Half Dually without DOT numbers or CDL are nearly over.
Transmissions? Automatics much easier than a manual. This is all off topic though. Need a new thread for this.
Gayle my old partner in the shop and I would both tell people when the question would come up. {How come you guys don't own diesel pickups being diesel mechanics and running this shop}? * The standard reply {I wouldn't have a diesel pickup shoved up my worst enemy's ***, I drove the stuff and worked on it most my life--like some quiet time}. Screw those vehicles have never had a need for one, just more cost when bought and repaired, zero savings in fuel in most cases it costs more. Now people just think they can't live without them. * Saw some jack wagon from some midwestern state saying we need to go back to 1960. Fine, lets take it all the way back--that means no more things in this century. * Everyone can get use to no A/C, no power mirrors, no heated seats, no instant start fuel injection & coil pack ignition, no back up cameras on anything, no power steering on all, no crash protection, no seat belts, no air bags, Just lots of sharp things on the dash and wheel to skewer yourself and others on.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get rid of the frozen food isles in the stores, no ice cream-ice milk, no more deli stuff, Slice your own bread, meat department full of round steak this round roast that--you couldn't find a new york or ribeye steak in the case back then.--------------------------------------------------------------------- Clothes--All clothes just like 1960 vintage---no more skimpy outfits for all the women-nothing but long dresses.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Health care---take all the great modern medicine and out the window it goes, you get nothing but the best that was available in 1960. Think about it----1960 sucked,, the average construction worker was accustomed to using a shovel--all the time---no fancy mini excavators, no CTL's, puny little backhoes,---------------- But there was one real good side effect to that time---There were few FAT people. * And last but not least----you can't have computers/social media, just three channels on TV and all the books you can read, including National Geographic for all the young men needing sex education. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those days weren't so wonderful if you lived in those times, Boomers are the last generation to know what it was like before computers & social media. * * Back to engines.
Back to engines
People hate the truth. I'll go back when I'm ready.
Sorry to say Ues they do. I bought 7.3 on a need, towing and distance. Has 340,000 on it, just cab rusted away. Still services the needs it was bought for.
No they do not. How many diesel pickups around the country that haven't towed, hauled a sh!tten thing but a starbucks coffee, taking up parking, making noise, blowing smoke all because it swells the owners ego---because it's a Me Too deal--I want one too- me too society. Horse Manure.
I meant that against People Hate the Truth. All too many of these were Grocery Getters, Soccer Mom Cabs. Bought mine for Function where used to run big Gassers, would only get five to seven years on those, believe got my Moneys worth.
Utility is one thing----three in the neighborhood starting at 4 am rattling in 15* weather. all to drive to the pen for next shift change.
Well got some major stuff done this morning--started at 4 am, nice and cool with a small breeze blowing through the shop. Best time to work, real early, no phones no people. Installed front cover, accessory drive and pulley, installed compressor-one that I got a real good deal on-SS296 Haldex reman for $$250.00. Installed new oil pump, Premco rebuilt injector pump & match flowed injectors at 12% over. Plus a set of injector lines I built to feed from front and rear of heads, good thing was I had a factory front line. Full set of new injector & valve push tubes for this one, ran out of good used. Guy buying it has a HT60 non waste gate N14 turbo to install. Finish the top end and run overheads tomorrow.
A diesel pickup will keep it's resell value while a gas pickup you can buy an whole engine for the price of the high pressure fuel pump from a diesel. Well that what I tell people when they are arguing one way or another
One thing about dealing with Premco in Lampasas Tx. is the quality of work plus the turn around time. Three days there, one day to build and three days back. That's faster by a whole week over anyone in the northwest. Prime and start up is quick and smooth with very quick throttle response. Plus no issue sending a pump that has a different CPL pump code, they will convert it to what ever CPL you want plus install a new pump code tag that matches CPL.
The deciding factor is rust--rust dictates the value or no value diesel or gas, It's the same with class eights. Engine might have miles left on it but if it's a Flintstone cab, the value drops like a rock right along with the zero interest, if the cab is that bad everything else is just as crusty.
Rich response from someone rebuilding 50 year old engines that were obsolete 40 years ago.
Diesel in a pickup for most is stupid, especially now, with DPF and all that crap. And no reason to use any pickup as a go to the store vehicle, I sure wouldn't. They are tops for theft as well. 4 am? Thats bed time for a graveyard shifter.
I found some helpers for TS, this is when we get to sore and old to do the work. And got to like the title of this movie.
Junkyard and I have discussed this premise. These guys are Undauntable, reuse nearly everything and get engines back to work or rebuild old trucks On The Cheap!!! Could rectify all the Super High Costs endured by the general Lil Debbie Cakes and Energy Drink swilling Super Truckers that need more cash for their necessities!!!
Not at all--it's what I did, rebuilding engines new & old----But like I've told others--you don't like what I write on my thread-don't read it. I want your input----I'll ask for it. And I believe you entertained the idea of having me rebuild your 40 year old obsolete B model Cat with obsolete retarder---IIRC.
If a big cam is obsolete, what does that make a two stroke? Still lots being used and making food money.
So I need to ask your permission to post on a public forum? Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Is that what happened to Heavy Truck Forum - you wouldn't give permission for anybody else to post anymore? I rebuilt the B model with the retarder myself, but I wasn't the one saying how everything is so much better now. I have 3 4MGs, all with retarders. For our use and purpose they work well.
Oxbow--I don't read your posts, I don't follow you around or anyone else. I don't make the accusations you just posted about another member. I don't follow but maybe 4 threads on HEF. I don't follow any thing related to yellow iron or construction, I don't care about it, I don't care about you. You are way over the line. I don't even get the HTF comment, that has nothing to do with anything. Go troll some where else.
Thread is done--No point. Anyone who replies after this post can't help themselves.
They sure know those "Komatsu engines".
Ah-hate to do it but---it didn't take long for a couple common house flies to try to ruin my thread, both just can't help hitting the like button when someone try's to land a jab. And yes things are better now, isn't it nice to have all the joystick controls in the excavator while the A/C is keeping it cool-with the gps keeping track. 1960--everyone needs a 1960 vintage excavator. Sometimes it's just fun to set and watch the list online, viewing content, looking at this thread or that thread, engaged in conversation. Secret--sush--when something juicy pops in a thread all of a sudden it's one after another viewing the same juicy thread, then the engaged in conversation takes over, like old hen chickens in the yard, one eyes something the rest run to see. *Good o'l boys leaning on the sides of a pickup rewriting history.
Something I should have noted but forgot about it. The Big Cam IV's, 444 or NT88's with low flow cooling and use the mono block single bolt water manifold can be converted using this front stat housing and a BCIII oil cooler and water pump. John Deere used this front piece on the 6810-6910 855's. You use the rest of the stat housing from a BCIII and two water tubes to water pump and oil cooler. You remove the restrictor o-rings under manifolds to head and install the standard square style open o-ring used on earlier BC's. This will make it full flow. Part # 3056548. * The other item is the oil line to STC control box. If it is still plumbed to the oil rifle/galley on left side of block, remove that line and fitting, install 1/8 npt plug in block and reinstall oil line directly to testing port on oil pump. Keeping the line at oil rifle can cause cam bearing failure because crank is also fed from cam bearing rifle. Plus it gives a more constant flow/psi to STC controller. This was/is a Cummins fix. *
Loaded this one and it left this morning--but with injector pump, injectors, oil cooler. Minus the intake. Have a machined block left plus crank, rods, heads & new cam to build one more. It will have ceramic coated pistons, HT60 turbo, 14% over injector pump. *
Will you do a n14 rebuild?
Truck Shop, You have so much intimate knowledge of the 855 platform. History, updates, nuance, tips & tricks. You could take all the bits of wisdom that you have gave out freely, over the years, that you could write a book. The “Ultimate guide and last word to the 855”. Self-publish it. You could fill it with your humor, tales of glory and prose. I would buy tree copies. Seriously, just start jotting stuff down. Don’t write a novel. I’ll ghost write it for you.
If I could find a reasonable core. * As far as BC's go I have this next one and the possibility of a Complete BCIII 400 used running for rebuildable engines. But Cores are getting tough to find, and what there is people want or think it's worth way more than it is. There is hardly a block out there that doesn't need $2,200 in machine work {Same with B model Cat}. So really can't invest in a narrow scope of profit with as much machine work involved. Max cash outlay for a complete core--I won't pay more than $500.
There's a bunch I've forgot too-happens over time. For me it's always been the idea that the 855 BC's from 1976 through the end of N14 in 2002 was one of the most laterally designed engine in any diesel platform. From 1961 with the 335 all the way to the end 2002---41 years of a 6 cylinder that was the backbone of the trucking industry. The amount of applications covered and ranges of horse power/torque achieved is remarkable from a 14L pushrod engine. The sad part was the day the last great engine the N14 rolled off the line, the 525 N14 was truly a great reliable power plant. I know of two that ran 1.3 million and only bearings rolled in. Cummins and there crazy ideas--who else in 1979 stacked twin turbos and MVT timing in a 6 banger to build 475 on highway horse power, Cummins was the only at that time. * My own which I had to replace two cams from Too Much rail pressure-stock was 158, with the big cup/orifice injectors a KT450 Pump with 1" gear and a HT4B {444} turbo combined with a twin turbo high velocity aftercooler--290 psi rail & 34 lbs boost. I have no idea what hp was with it---but it ran good and had the distinct sound of allot of marbles rolling around on hard throttle. * The last of the mohican's--last N14.
Think about---Detroit with the Series 60 and Cat with the 5EK, both went to overhead cams. Cummins stayed with the 855 pushrod concept for another 10 years after both of the other leading two went OHC. The N14 still had the power and the fuel mileage of the others with a simple gear train, less leaks with miles of longevity. Then came the twin cam ISX with a less than steller repair record. Sometimes manufactures don't know when they had it so good.
TS, while you're here........I had an NHRS 320 several years ago, sold it. Where a s/n was supposed to be,on the machined area to the rear of the compression release handle, Was just the letters J A C. (see pic) Ever seen this before? Any idea why letters instead of a #?
Just Another Cummins? Likely a Mechanic initials from the final overhaul. Used to mark mine on the block flats
Cummins normally stamped the block at upper rear left side. Stamped that straight--- it was done by Cummins. Not knowing history on your 320, Cummins sometimes only stamped letters on a replacement block.
Where I work they locked up a 800,000 mile n14, they haven't made a decision on it yet but I was just curious on rebuild options. I think they said crank is bad
Well if it seized there is about a 95% chance the crank/block & rods are done. For the amount of machine work-mainly hourly pricing in many cases it's best to just find another runner. There have been several used in the price range of $11,000, which in todays economy isn't too bad.
I can't remember what they said when they dropped the oil pan, something like rod and main on #5 was bad. Id bet the piston/liner is done too.
A note----If for some reason anyone is replacing head bolts on a 855 BC or N14 and you happen to order 3013623 part number for bolts {which is oem number} and receive a set with a part #MCBN14HBK---those are Torque Yield style-the head of bolt will have a {90} stamped in it. That number is Interstate McBee. * First torque 100 ft lbs, second torque 220 ft lbs, then turn an additional 90 degrees. In the end--it will hover at 300 ft lbs torque.
So there is tty and regular head bolts
Look them up--I post the info to make it easy.
PAI #040001 is for the standard oem bolt.
Had a good day assembling that last BC III I will build. Started at 7 am, installed crank, hung rods on pistons & installed rings and loaded in bores. Installed heads, fuel cross overs and camshaft. Got the stuff out to time it in the morning. Installed a PAI high performance kit with ceramic coated pistons & coated bearings. Run cooler with those and a N14 turbo with about 32 lbs boost. Pump & injectors set at 14% over 200 rail psi. about 470 hp. *
Sweet engine
Timed it in less than 1 hour, two .015 gaskets in each follower set it right at .071 pushrod travel. Assembled the front cover, accessory drive and ran overheads. * This engine assembly consists of. Fully machined block, decked, counter bores, line honed, machined crank std rods .010 mains std thrust. 6 rebuilt con rods, 3 new cylinder heads, new camshaft, perfect inspected followers, new injector push rods & valve push rods. Rebuilt accessory drive, rebuilt Bendix Two Flo 550 compressor, new oil pump, new water pump, Premco rebuilt PT pump & injectors, PAI high performance ceramic coated piston/liner kit with coated bearings, new cam bearings. Model 30E stamped with {H} prefix Jakes with self adjusting lash screws. New 3537074 HT60 turbo. New 9 gal steel oil pan, disassembled & tested oil cooler & high velocity aftercooler. Latest 444 pulse exhaust manifold, and a 444 water manifold fitted for high flow. And a new vibration damper. Painted N14 semi gloss black with red valve covers. --photo of it when done.
855 red top
855 red top celect!
Get it right now, it's a Plus since T.S. built it.
Your some what correct, It takes allot of careful selecting of parts to make a {hybrid sort of} out of a BC. It will make roughly 460 to 470 hp & 1550 torque, not a monster but not a mutt either. You can't really push it much more than that and expect any sort of reliable life span. But it will run about 15* cooler oil temp with those pistons because the ceramic deflects heat from the piston crown which makes the bottom side of crown near con rod cooler which helps with oil temp. The other is the turbo, HT60 spools faster and runs a little more boost, stock is about 25/26 this will max at 32 possibly, but the effect is lower EGT's even with extra fuel.
Your knowledge of these Cummins engines is second to none! I'd bet you could charge more just for your expertise. Curious if you've rebuilt/custom built many Cat or series 60 Detroits? Also wondering what your opinion is of Paccar engines?
3406 A,B and C15 I guess- 45, Series 60- 14----Series 60 runs till the truck drops dead.
I edited my post to ask about Paccar but on the Series 60, are they a good long life engine or just too expensive to rebuild?
Very good.
Unless they are a 14L DDEC 5 egr engine. I had one and my old N14 had it beat hands down. When the detroit was running good it was ok but it seemed to have a low power issue compared to the N14 and i didn’t want to spend any more money on it having a shop try to diagnose it.
Yes those 5's were a problem, we had 15 of those, 2006's. But the non egr DDEC III 14L was a killer engine at a max of 575 on highway, we had 26 2011/2014 gliders that were 550--there were no yellow engines passing them on Cabbage, two were 575 of the lot. * Quite familiar with the EGR 60's--The real issue was too much boost, couldn't hold a head gasket. Wasn't uncommon to see 48 psi, blew hump boots all the time. We shot through radiators from pressurizing system.
Funny one today--engine nearly complete turned on engine stand with pan rail up, installing pan. I finished that rolled it back to heads up position and noticed engine oil running out of the water/coolant port at back of block for after cooler {***}. So rolled it back over pan up-investigate. I poured about a 1/4 cup of oil in pickup port of oil pump about 4 hours earlier. The block was tilted outward slightly on it's stand mount, oil vary slowly moved through pump gears and down main gally to oil cooler port, where in rail up position it dripped into the large coolant port for oil cooler. I marked the ports on this old photo-imagine the block flipped the other way. The circled port is coolant, the one right below is oil port, flip block and those are then in opposite positions. * Haha, haha,haha,haha,
Oh yeah--in that photo is some of those wonderful truck nerf bars--there's $7,000 dollars worth of bent up stainless crap leaning against the compressor shack. Both bent from driving into stuff in parking lots--mafia blocks and parking curbs mainly. Never even hit a animal.
Rabbit bumpers. The tow truck drivers on Highway through Hell hate them because they can't use the proper tow hooks or the tow hook mounts were used to mount the bumpers.
Correct--When a needing to use tow hooks--it's remove the nerf, if the nuts had anti-seize put on it might come apart, other wise it's burn it off. Removal on a tow situation is up to $500.00 now. The real issue is vibration gets to the hinges and latches which shakes them apart. We had a driver that was doing his pre-trip, tilted bumper in a slick parking lot at a truck stop. Went down with large ass aluminum bumper--cracked his hip. Screw those friggin things--nothing but false sense of security in most cases and adds weight to steer axle---like there isn't enough already. * ----But it loooks so cooool dude, covered in tattoooos and ear studs and a scroungy beard, oh left out the high viz.
The bumpers we put on t800 or w900 trucks seem to pay for themselves but they all have a central tow point built into them that is securely mounted to the original tow points. we've pulled loaded super bs from them with no issues. I hit an elk once at 60 mph with a good bumper and kept on driving instead of waiting 4 hours for a tow truck like I'm pretty sure I would have needed to without it. But I can imagine that those bumpers don't really fit on aerodynamic trucks and ya they suck for opening the hood to check oil
I cleaned up a wreck near Indian John I-90, 4300 International pasted 7 elk in fog. One ended up in the sleeper, driver had just enough time to duck, ripped the steer axle and fuel tanks off. I-90 was covered in fuel, blood, guts and lots of bones and hide. You know if he had a aluminum cow pusher--why he probably would have driven right on down the road. Nothing more than overkill--no pun intended.
If the truck has a strong anchor point for towing is OK but a lot of the big fancy looking bumpers are just for show and use the mounts for tow hooks so if you need a tow it's a big PIA. Watching the show, there were a few instances where the driver was told the tow company isn't responseable for damage to the rabbit bumper. The bumpers were ripped right off a couple times too. I can see it being a big fuster cluck when a major roadway is blocked and the tow truck driver has to scramble trying to figure out where to hook too.
Depending--on front spring hanger/bumper mounts, a good direct hit can or normally crack the aluminum mounting bracket at bumper mounting bolt holes. * Just so much horse manure is what it is, like buying Leaf Filters for your gutters on the house.
I think aluminum would crack easier
On a Pete say a 379 model, the spring hanger/frame horn is aluminum. The area for bumper mounting is only 5/8" thick flanges. I've seen those completely cracked out/fractured, so any major impact can break those out. It's not much to hang a bumper on, most are that way.
The arrow points to the mounting flanges/bolt holes--those can completely break out. Pete 379. *
Cast aluminum is known to crack. Some Cummins oil pans were prone to cracking. I knew a specialty shop that repaired them. If the right welding procedures weren't followed, they'd just crack again. I recall the aluminum was a bit dirty so it was common to have to weld up a crack to bring the dirt out and then grind the weld out and re-weld it. Sometimes it took 2 or 3 times to get all the dirt out. The shop also welded up cracked holes for the valve stem in aluminum wheels. That had to be done a specific way too. The shop never had any issues welding valve stem holes but the practice may be illegal now. I think the shop had seen wheels fail that were improperly welded by someone else. Preheat and interpass temperature were critical and I think slow cooling as well. Aluminum transmission cases are also known for cracking.
The cummins aluminum 855 oil pan would crack--but what would really get them is when the pan was bolted to the bell housing. You never want to install those bolts from oil pan ears to bell housing ears. *
Did Cummins have some small finned oil pans as well?
Sort of----The rare one, I've only seen one. Front sump {T Pan} fit 855, held 11 gals.
Was not long after the Front Sumps became a Standard rather than novelty that Tin Pans showed up.
Kenworth T600 started the change in 1985.
Break like this?
yup.
SNAP!!
This was after effects of nailing a deer at 68 mph damn thing exploded all front of my truck
I have seen plenty of deer hits, it happens. The bigger the critter the worst it is. * And I still have no use for nerf bars.
I normally hit three to four a year as I normally run nights bent bumper is usually the worst of the damage that they just pull out with a chain and send it never had a nerf bar
Do you have Hobie alarms on your truck that are supposed to make a high pitched squeal to warn animals? Seems they should be a no brainer if you're hitting multiple dear in a year. I know a lot of motorcycle riders use them but don't know if they're 100% effective.
You're kidding, right? I thought those things went away 20 years ago. Never worked, most guys say they made the deer run into the road.
I never really looked into them. Some people claim they have helped to turn deer away so maybe they work sometimes??
Been seeing more ‘Roo Guards’ on US highways, Bull Bars here. Massive aluminum structure in front of hood always appear impressive. Saw one in a shop, pivots are relatively tiny in comparison, lock pins no stronger than Nerf bar sets, not going to stop much of anything before entangled in grill and hood and damages suspension mounts.
As to Deer whistles, buddy put them on all three of his cars, several weeks later I see him in work parking lot with front damage to his old Square Body GM, whistles are snapped off. Day after installing he hit deer that ran straight at him running down road, his wife hit one very next day. His take, they work like dog whistles and call the deer not chase them.
The problem with the whistles--those are not proven, either way. A call or deterrent. The whistles were first sold through J.C. Wack-O-Vitch all the way back in late 60's. I personally have never hit a deer or elk or moose or any farm critters or small wild animals--my share of small birds & one Great Horned owl in the refer engine doors. * I credit that to being very aware of the area I'm driving in. I've seen allot of deer along side road though, I always hit the horn. Two years ago on a tow to La Grande Ore. I was in the curves along the river below Starkey about eight miles north of LG. It's 60 mph through there lots of curves following the river. Early morning around 4 am, I always cut my speed through that stretch just because of wild life. I had two semi's on my ass both decided to pass, I let off a little. As the second made it past me I could see a outline of a bull elk on the shoulder just ahead of the first truck. It took both of them out. I sailed past at about 35 I guess, just missing parts and pieces in the lanes. both had nerf, bull, moose bars. What got both of them was speed and pushing too hard in a stretch of road that's know for wild life crossings. * And to top it off---I've never blown a tire. * Knock on wood, when my currant medical card runs out that's when I will let my chauffeur's license expire, at least that's the plan. I want to stop driving with a clean slate and not to be told you need to stop driving, do it on my accord.
We put guards on the front of the main 2 trucks at work . I dont know if they have really helped or not. Like most stuff its hard to get a good answer to some questions like Do the guards help??? Its hard to think they wouldnt help and the drivers like having them on the trucks so why not ? Thirty some years ago i wish i would have had a guard i missed a Deer and rolled my pickup . If i would have had a guard maybe i would have ran it over and stayed upright.
Dad always preached to not swerve for a animal. Tho if its a moose i probably will (never seen a moose in my travels)
If I were in my car, I would likely swerve for a large animal like a cow or moose. My wife had a teacher friend that was killed when she hit a moose and her car went underneath, and the moose crushed the roof down on her. I have hit deer several times and totaled two cars. One did a lot of front end damage and the other one I lost control and rolled over I now pay a lot of attention and slow down when I see the deer crossing signs. I hit a deer one night when I worked a second job hauling oil out of the port of Albany. The doe fell just before I hit and ran over her. No real damage to the truck except foe one Perlux fog light missing but I had to wash the whole rig because of blood and guts strung the whole length of the rig.
Oh well---roo, moose, elk, squirrels, rats & ant's---------------------------------------------And what was that stupid tune years ago,, cat's and rat's and elephant's and sure as your born don't forget my f@cking unicorn. * back to engines.
A pickup I had had those whistles…didn’t work at all for me. The route I drive up north has a LOT of deer…guaranteed to see some on road in early morning/evening this time of year (especially hwy 24 Little Fort, low volume 2 lane). My policy is 80km/h or less…can then apply brakes and usually avoid hit. I also find quick pull on air horn will make them move back into bush. Dim lights also if time…
In most cases people get back what they drive like, drive like a ass, probably end up looking like one.
Finis. *
I know appearance doesnt affect performance, but it sure looks sharp.
A sharp engine is a happy engine.
Colors of the black widow. Ready to kill any challengers.
Conservative side 450/455 a loose guess 460/465.
Truck Shop makes me wish I bought a dump truck needing an engine. His attention to detail is outstanding! It makes sense though after seeing how detailed his drawings are. He is just a true craftsman in everything he does and is in a pretty elite class of individuals.
I'm not elite or unique just another skeleton walking around. * Dave--main reason for the extra work--it helps sell the item. People see slop they think slop under the valve covers. But even when I did inframes I painted the pieces before installation. Paint on wiring, hoses/hose clamps just looks of slop. Some buyers care some don't some just want it to make smoke and don't care what it looks like or how it runs, their drive is greed and only greed.
The difference is your painting is as meticulous as the rest of the rebuild. It's not done trying to hide flaws or missed steps. It's not a Dupont overhaul. A buyer can be assured everything is top notch and you stand behind it.
well I try--I can have failures just like everyone else. But I spend a stupid amount of time trying to make it the best I can.
Sad days, Sand Plant here had a Engine(855) out of one of their boats Overhauled by Cummins Columbia MO, Uncertain of CPL. Sat the engine in the hull last Friday, completed the connect ups and closing the roof, fired it up Monday, made TWO MINUTES knocked REALLY Loud, Locked tighter than Dick's hatband. Cummins DID NOT DYNO or even start this engine prior to shipping. Cummins [Tech] arrived to survey damages, Dropped Two Pushrods, Cam is in pieces, one cam box exploded and unsure if block is not destroyed. Oil and coolant was running out of every gap. Thoughts by Svc rep, NEWBIE(20 y.o.) that overhauled this most likely missed the Cam Follower rod seats and instead had the pushrods sitting just off the followers, managed to get a Overhead set somehow and moved on closing things up.
Well since I posted this one I've two calls--with roughly the same issue. Both were rebuilt in Illinois, both major cam & cam follower issues. One cost 27k for it's initial rebuild. Two very unhappy people. Both wanting to know if I would ship that far. I'm local pickup only. Problem is--any of these old pushrod engines take old school know how, whether it's a Cat or a Cummins, Dave you know as well as I do the service managers are in the dark as much as the mechanic they threw at the job.
And yes---I test fired this one as usual. 48 lbs oil pressure at idle cold, energized the jakes, had a helper lock the turbo up on initial start up till had steady oil pressure for at least 15 seconds. And he took a video of it while I ran it. She smoked like a freight train with all the oil soaked pistons/cylinders which is normal then started to clear some and shut it down.
Just curious. Are there manufacturers service books that are reliable resource when rebuilding and assembling these engines?
Sure, there are books but in most cases those are getting hard to find. And internet info is so full of bogus info creating havoc. On Facebook--855 Enthusiast page there is so much backyard crap said, any of the few that know on there--many times throw their hands up. I don't add hardly anything at all on those, morons asking how to get 600hp out of a BC 855 is a everyday mess.
Little aspects as Using a Flashlight to make CERTAIN the Pushrods are in the Followers is a Mechanic's Personal Knowledge, some call them Trade Secrets, they are just experience. Just as tapping a Pushrod on a solid surface to 'Hear' if Oil filled(BAD JuJu). Used to reuse Cummins Head Bolts regularly, just visibly inspected for any distortions or pitting, still did not stop busted head bolts. ANY marking on a old series head bolt and I tossed them, got to a point gave up and just replaced them all when overhauled one.
Like 'What Button can I get for more fuel' or how can I get more speed out of this engine(turning 2150 Hi Idle already). 'Needs a fuel Filter, as Gots no power', meaning someone had better gearing and passed him/her.
A friend with a shop mentioned something about me and doing an engine in a Volvo road truck. I said if and only if I had someone with the right experience. I have only slapped a couple gas v8’s together many years ago. Did use plastic gauge and gapped rings at least. I realize that there is just a little more to it. Assisted my son on a Deere with three cylinder diesel. He got an import short block. Transfer parts and install. Some assistance from a contributor here and local friend. Injection pump mistake. Got it fired up and 1.5 psi oil pressure. The learning continues and that is good.
Even if one is a pro, it never ends on old or new. The day one gets out of bed and thinks he knows it all--that is his/hers biggest mistake for the rest of their life, until they stop and take a long look in the mirror.
That's a happy day, the test run. First time I heard of having a helper lock the turbo. I learned something new today. What about pre-oiling the galleys with an external source, is that ever done? My dad wanted to build a pre-oiler accumulator system and found out it had been patented long ago. It required a check valve so the oil was not lost back through the pump to the pan.
I don't think it matters what kind of engine it is, you can only add so much power if you want it to be reliable and last.
That's it! One should never get so complacent that they don't bother to give everything a final check over before calling it finished. All it takes is a telephone call or somebody shows up when you're in the middle of something for an important step to be missed. I need to remember to do this when I am finished fixing something. Not that it isn't fixed but to do a walk around to make sure I picked up all the tools... or put the battery cover back on the grader after I picked up the tools. I put the tools in my truck to drive up to the shop and forgot about the battery cover. Used a stabilizer on the backhoe to get reasonably straight. Then I welded handles on it that work really good. It's a tight fit and I used to have to pry it off. The handles make it easy to slam in place.
Kind of funny, then again not. I did the Cat overhaul in the KW and been told by a myriad of ‘experts’ I did it all wrong. Will leak terribly, will not hold a head gasket, will run hot, surprised even started, HAVE to deck the block every time, HAVE to send the crank and cam out to a machine shop Every Time. Align bored blocks are crap. Manufacturers shops are the Only place to get a overhaul done. List goes on and on. With this Cummins Failure at least the ‘expert’ mechanic at this yard stopped barking BS at me.
This is so true!! When ever some acts like they know it all, I know they're' full of shXX . Also anyone that claims they're normal is usually a nutjob.
I've seen them on generations to help oil the turbo in startup
Well you know everyone's a expert don't believe it just ask them. But Dave the biggest thing you did wrong on the C-15 was you weren't properly dressed to work on it. This is one area I love being SARCASTIC about, {The true/real **** cutter CAT mechanic dress code}. * He was born one morning when the sun didn't shine. Got to have the half-*** logger/diesel mechanic look going Dave. You just got's to wear a Hickory Shirt. The pants need to be cut short at the cuffs with a little washing machine fringe {that's very important} along with a real set of bachelor buttons for the GUY WIRES. And a pair of logging boots {preferably a pair of high dollar WHITES SMOKE JUMPERS}. Need to have your Hickory unzipped a little to expose a little gray chest hair--very important. All topped off with the absolute mandatory CAT HAT. For lounging you must have a pair of ROMEO's for the proper look while swigging a LASSY BEER. * Oh I left out the proper CAT BULL SH!TTERS stance--Thumb in pocket on one hand the other holding a beer can one foot/boot placed just in front of the other with one hip in kind of a locked up position with butt cheeks pushed out----proper Cat stance for proper bullsh!tting especially when it comes to climate change.
I've always locked a new turbo up on start up, Yes I have a pre-oiler, but I always prime the pump with assembly lube and pre-fill the oil filters. * Many a turbo has had premature failure because of not locking till it has been pressurized with oil after installing.
Actually it does--you want to be nice to everything except a 2 stroke--those you can stand back and spray mass amounts of propane and ether into at full throttle.
I always pre filled the oil filters if they were spin on. I pre-lubed the turbos upside-down through the drain port then from the top when installed. I always cranked a rebuilt engine until it had oil pressure before it got any fuel to start. When installing push rods I always lubed the lower end of the push rod and lowered it into place in the follower then lifted the follower with the push rod, you can feel the weight, you can tell its in place.
Plus give the pushrod a spin.
I was talking about engines in general as in big trucks, cars, motorcycles and everything in between. A lot of people think they need more power or more accurately like to boast about having more power but can't use it. I see it with dirt bikes all the time. In most cases having more power or too big of a bike doesn't help the rider. It actually makes them slower because they can't use the extra power.
In most cases a 475 hp diesel powered semi will take a few minutes longer to cover the same mountain passes that a 550 hp covers. On the flat there is zero difference, amount of fuel usage is roughly the same. Where the issue lays is how long a driver stays after it, covering the distance is about seat time allowed in hours on duty. The higher the horsepower has no effect on engine braking. Constantly reading the traffic flow ahead and behind makes the difference in time and fuel consumption. If a driver can't get it down the road with 475---550 isn't going to make any difference.
Theres very few riders who can use all a modern 250/450 can lay down. Me im certainly not one of them. But I spurce up everyone I ever had
Bike power band with different HPs and big diesel HP's are very different
Big Diesels deliver Produced and maintained Torque, Two Strokers or even the modern four stroke Dirt Bikes Live ON the Pipe, they love High End RPM to maintain the Pull. Big Diesels get down and throb at Torque Band, Maintaining Moving Mass. KW has all of 500hp by Profile Cat established in the Processor, I not one time ever challenged that, likely not ever budged off 200-300 and at around half capable torque. Kind of Sad but Available.
Both the C and the 7.3 had a Pressure oiler attached to the Oil Feed side of Turbo, Knock on wood neither have any issues.
Sold. *
You have a pretty good side business going rebuilding engines. It's good you have a nice shop to work in and can work at your own pace. I'm too dependent on the weather and seem to be always fixing something.
That was the last one--no more. Junkyard wants the engine stand, I have some parts & pieces to build another stand if I want. Problem is it's a liability. * Tired of trying to find cores plus the profit margin is thin. The area to sell/move it is in the $19,000 dollar range. Sure a person could price higher---then set on it because the seller has a greed factor. I'm ok with what I get out of one but the buyer crowd is thin too. Setting on something like this trying to glean every *****-in dollar isn't profitable.
So, whats next? I’ve noticed that the older i get, the less it takes to keep me busy
Yeah--kind-a like that too, I look forward to bedtime. I lay in the fart sack 10 hours, that only leaves 14 hours of day light to waste.
He’s moving down here to help me teach the next generation! Haha
Sorry but you won't find me past the continental divide. Butte Mt. is about as far as I will go.
If somebody came to you with an engine would you consider rebuilding it or help someone to rebuild their engine? I think you would be a great mentor to someone wanting to learn or even just as someone to oversee and be kind of like a quality control inspector. Your knowledge and expertise is unmatched and it would be great if you could pass it on to others wanting to learn from the best. I recall you already had someone who was thrilled to learn from you.
Ah--in most cases I doubt very much that I would want to. I would end up taking the tools from them and doing it my self---Some days I have less ambition and more frustration and less patience than other days.
Can relate to that.
I was hoping you'd last long enough till I could pay you to do an n14
Not a chance---I finally decided after 50 plus years--enough is enough.
Maybe if you set the ground rules? I totally get the less ambition and more frustration. I get so fatigued now and some days it's hard to just get out of bed. I have to push myself to get things done. Thankfully the new pain med. I'm on seems to be working better. Lifting the 60lb. group 31 battery chest high to put in the tractor took every bit of energy I had. 4 years ago would have been no problem.
Nah--I just look at all the young **** and vinegars running around and they can just get after it. They will have no problems--they have Youtube to bail them out.
Ahh, YouTube, Land of Experts. Might even have the right way buried under all the wrong way videos . . .
The internet as a whole is the land of experts for many. * Years ago when I first started in this field {as a foreign car mechanic} my nemesis was carburation. I spent many hours reading manuals for certain carbs to get it right. Because I found that 95% of other mechanics I asked were just shooting in the dark. A printed manual does wonders in understanding operation. My favorite, a Carter AFB.
Are you still going to run the tow truck?
I really can't--I just want to sit down for awhile.
The AFB/Edelbrock is hard to beat. Easy to tune, no gaskets below fuel level, pretty efficient as well. Do they make the power a Holley will? Nope but 99% of the time nobody would know the difference anyway.
Yeah----the old boss just asked me about that last Thursday. For another two years when my medical card runs out. When I stop he's putting it up for sale. It will be my only regret I like driving that truck--it handles like dream, it's really nice to drive.
No biggie, you do you
I have to remember my favorite saying to myself, never say never.
I swore I’d NEVER drive a vacuum truck. And at 72+ years I ain’t yet. I hauled one once but that don’t count.
Vac trucks is easy work, worse thing you do is haul out some hoses
I saw what they did in the oilfields! I enjoyed movin the drilling rigs……
The old boss asked at the same time if I would rebuild a 14L Series 60 in the last glider left in the fleet #444--800,000 some miles on it. That's allot of bending around my body doesn't like.
That's one of my jobs now too My only concern is use it or lose it so stay active in some way
Is that you in the video? Looking pretty good if it is.
Yeah---that's bad truck shop.
Handsome devil that truck shop.
I need taller boots . . .
Yeah something happened over the years--I think it was the 15x40 that did it. *
Sometimes you can tell people are very good at what they do just by seeing them in their environment. You really look the part of a master engine builder. I had the same feeling with the specialist who used bone cement to repair my spine. He just looked very professional and the way he talked put me at ease. On the other hand the urologist I have can't/won't give me straight answers. He has beady little eyes too close together and looks creepy. He tells me one thing and then contradicts himself saying I'm not getting it. I get it just fine, you're leading me on giving me false hope that an operation could help me to not need a catheter.
Thanks Dave---don't know about a certain look. I just don't get excited when starting a fresh engine, to me it's about like starting one two years old. I do my homework so when I turn it in and excite the starter I'm confident. Sure things can go sideways, nothing is a sure bet. It's why I test fire, with photos and this one a video to go with the sale. It makes the buyer way more confident in his purchase. This is the 5th, not a issue with any of them. * But I do have to drain oil & drop pan and install/reseal oil pan with another gasket, it has two areas that want to seep, real slight but I don't like it and I'm selling a motor that doesn't leak. I already have all the gaskets so it's really just a little over one hour to take care of it.
I never realized you could run a big engine like that on just a stand. I was wondering if you install the engines for the buyers for an extra cost?
No--that's their job---They only have to install a few extremities-alt, fan hub, belts, hoses & wiring. They don't have to touch any adjustments. Pretty simple really. One I sold they changed over from low flow cooled Big Cam IV, so they had some radiator issues to swap out. But the son was I guess 25 or 26, seemed a real smart young man, he asked a few questions-I helped him and zero problems. It was obvious he was not intimidated about taking care of business at hand. Actually none of the buyers were, which makes it easier on me, I have had the luxury of having done business with exceptional people.
When your doing business like you are it's better to choose the better customers
I don't/didn't have to hurry--it's easy to read/navigate through the dip sh!ts.
Thinking back I sold 4 engines off one ad on Facebook market place. It was {I want the next engine you build with deposit}. * Now I have a question for the rest-----where's all the engines being built on HEF? Anything going on besides engine scanners, connections, hydraulic cylinder packing, track pins? Anyone rebuilding transmissions these days?
I rebuilt a RTOF-11908LL last month.
That's right you did--I think your the only one besides me.
Others would be humbled by your expertise.
I do a engine from time to time and transmissons but there always ag stuff nomally
We started a Cummins once 0n the floor . It was setting on the floor wood blocks under the oil pan chained to a Forklift mast. I was surprised that when the throttle was opened how steady it was . I never tried it but a lot of engines by the way they moved when the throttle was moved would have tried to flip over?
I believe to some degree you need resistance to crank rotation to flop it over.
And here is the truck this last engine is going to reside in, 1981 359. *
I did a C12 out of frame earlier this year. Never been in a big truck transmission. Have another C12 to do at some point soon.
Liner oring leak? Ours been living off bars leak for quite awhile now
The one earlier this year dropped 2 valves. I suspect it was an inframe done with a well worn head based on valve bridge wear etc.
Nice truck! Very worthy of your engine.
It will be when I finally get done with it, to finish a post I made in D. Millers Exploits. * Oil pan had two small leaks so this morning I removed pan, only to discover very fine bronze in the bottom. So checked crank, it was fine no issues. Looking straight up I could see two wrist pin bushings were moved out in top of con rods. So tomorrow morning I will pull it down, remove all six. Those had plenty of lube but I'm wondering if there was a issue installing the bushings. What ever the reason it doesn't really matter at this point----find the issue and correct. I'm glad it had a oil leak at this point, some days are like that--win some lose some.
That's why it's good you rebuilt it. It gets test run and checked over with a fine tooth comb. Much easier to fix when the engine is out and good you found an issue before more damage was done. Sometimes it doesn't matter how careful you are, something strange still happens.
Don't do no good to fret---just correct and move on.
I'd bet a lot places wouldn't have found it and let it go.
After running bare for 5 minutes???
And my answer to that is---why the hell do you care, anything that can happen to me should have put a smile & sneer on your face.
I hate to hear your having problems but its good to find out early on. I rebuilt several engines and as far as I know I had good luck besides one I did for my self. One of the ones I did for myself drank oil . It didn't smoke or leak . I think I took it apart trying to fix it but didn't . I ran it alot of miles adding oil. It ended up in a pickup I used off road for years .I think I steal have that engine in storage.
Why would we have a smile because of your bad luck? I feel bad for you.
All I can say is WOW. You really need to lose some of this bitterness. Never in any post have I ever disparaged anything you've done or repaired. Not once, go back and look. Why? Because I make it a priority NOT to say things like that about other's workmanship. That's what respectable business owners do. Now your opinions and statements about other people and what not? Absolutely, because that's my right, just like you. Have a nice day, Mike, and hopefully you can determine what happened.
Spent four hours disassembling, what I thought was the issue isn't. Can't find where the material came from. Looked everything over--clueless to reason for metal in oil. But there is way more than should be, cam bushings, crank bearings, compressor, oil pump, turbo, rocker boxes, wrist pin bushings are ok. But because I can't find the issue--I have zero faith at this point, so I'm refunding the buyers deposit. And part it out for 50 cents on the dollar of what I feel comfortable selling. end of story. * I'm not bitter--but fact is you and I don't get along, not everybody does that's just life.
About the only thing left is the accessory drive or something inside the timing cover?
Already been there.
Is anything scuffed up? Have you cut the filter, how much is in there? Seems likely the metal was flushed out of a gallery when you ran it?
The copper pins in the cam follower rollers?
Sell the whole engine for half price no warranty I'm sure there will be buyers
If nothing can be found that is wrong, I wonder if running it for maybe half an hour or longer on new oil and filter and then checking and getting an oil sample done would indicate if the problem got worse or better or oil samples show what is normal for a fresh rebuild?
On it's way back together....
You do pretty much aircraft quality work on your projects, no shop will do that quality inspection. Had to be a bronze oil pressure gage fitting, or some simple nothing deal. But then with unknown parts quality these days we have no idea what they are passing on to us.
I'm still doing around 20 engines a year, all in-frames as that's what the customers want, the out of frames are due to major failures, do a swap. Do ISX and Cat C15 mostly, do a lot of deletes if not deleted already. We did have a issue during covid with getting isx cylinder heads so were sending them out to be rebuilt at a machine shop, that proved to not be so good, pretty much every one dropped a valve seat at some point anywhere from 700 hrs to 4000 hrs, the shop went good for most of them, but still sucks to have to go back into an engine again like that. We only use oem parts now and haven't had any issues. When I worked the dealership it was non stop engine work for the 14 years I was there, nicer to be on top then underneath all the time.
I can't stand in frames. I could not physically do it now.
The in-frames that are hard on me is the Kenworth C500 big steel front ends, lots of climbing for an older guy like me (65 in a month) even after pulling the fenders off.
I need to find a turbo cross over like on the bc3 in the pic.wasnt lookin and let one get away
Still have a C Series BXS Block here, some days contemplate finding a donor for internals and build it, others I swear the pains I built off the last one will not allow to build this one.