What tips can you provide me for someone who is 20 years old with skidsteer, farm tractor/front end loader/3 point hitch, etc. experience looking to get trained & hired on one of these monsters? I've wanted a job operating a hydraulic excavator since I was just a little guy (literally, little), and I grew up in new subdivisions all my life watching them work all around. I thoroughly enjoy operating everything I've operated so far, and at one point I had an old bobcat loader business but the loader was old and tired and it wasnt reliable (learned my lesson; never get a cheapy one) so I got out of bobcat work, anyway, if you can give me some tips and a heads up of what I can expect for A career in excavating that would be great. Thanks, Mike
A hoe is the best machine there is just sit there relax and go around and around all day. Your best bet is to look at a company the does underground utilities try and they would probably put you on a backfill crew to start out. Its best to learn on a backhoe, once you get one of those POS down everything else is easy.
Ill only receive training on the excavator, but thanks for the info
Some tips I've always been told try to always dig over the front idlers always know where your tail (swing) is be aware of any overhead obstacles ...and anything underground too when you bench load, the optimal height is to have your boom hinge just above the sideboards of the truck never load over a cab understand that different material in different mositure can become heavier (been there, done that:bouncegri ) an excavator is always most stable over the front/back try to dig on level/solid terrian (not typically going to get one of both of those, but it's a good idea to try to make your base and stable as you can safety for you and those around you is paramount, know where everyone and everything is all excavators are not created equal, but from an 8 ton to a 45 ton machine the concept remains the same and after a while they feel about the same that's most of what I can think of, none of them are necassarily going to hold true in the field, and some of them aren't as important. Get seat time and after a while you'll get more comfortable with it. hope that helps.
I'll put in a couple 1. Try to walk the machine in a straight line as much as possible. Faster and easier on the ground. 2. If you have any auxiliary guarding, like a cab guard, do realize that your bucket could make contact with it. 3. Remember that if you're doing "surgery" around utilities that your teeth are about 6-8 inches deeper than what you can physically see. 4. Jump turn the machine whenever possible, this gets back to #1 on my list as well. 5. Don't go into the learning process trying to hotshot run the machine, you'll get better over time. Think smooth. 6. Don't hit the guy in the trench. 7. Learn how to connect all auxiliary hydraulic lines and buckets/attachments. 8. Don't run on asphalt after noon in the summer 9. Clean the undercarriage out as needed 10. Learn to use a grade beam 11. Be aware of the dimensions of the machine at all times, common sense, but I've seen guys just run stuff over when it's not that complicated to just pay attention. 12. Learn to use the heel of your bucket and use it well. 13. Get good at walking the machine with your feet, I know a ton of guys that can't figure out how to run the front end while walking the machine at the same time. It's not hard, just takes practice. Once you can do that, you can walk beside a trench and backfill, or grade a slope while slowly walking the machine. You'll look like a real badass. Learning to use your feet also helps with jump turns, crossing wide trenches, or stumping yourself down a steep slope (or getting back out).
Play Powershovel using the joysticks on a Playstation controller so that the control pattern becomes second nature. You don't want to have to think about what each control does when your working around others.
thank you very much for the tips! they help alot.
powershovel? a game?
http://ostg.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=446929/ I'm not endorsing this website for purchasing the game, it just shows the game and has a small description. There are jobs and mini-games to do that are fun, but help you learn the control pattern at the same time. The good part is that you don't break anything expensive while learning.
Lots of good advice above! One thing that I've said before, and it applies across the board, not just to excavators, is something that was pointed out to me when I was first learning the trade. You should strive for "no wasted motion". Without going into any great detail, that simply means you should learn to use the machine, any machine, to its maximum efficiency.
Well, nobody is going to hire you and throw you on a excavator. First things first, you will need to earn your PhD.
"Doctor of Dirtology"....
Along the same lines, my best advice is the same thing that race car drivers strive to perfect: "In order to go fast, you need to slow down." You want to be smooth and steady on the controls. The best operators are the guys that can get get a full bucket out of the bottom of the trench (while hitting the grade), swing it around, and get it into the truck without dropping it all over the ground and shaking the fillings out of the driver in the truck (you're losing time if you're waiting for the driver to get in and out of the truck). Do this a couple of hundred times a day, and you've got it all figured out...:thumbsup What usually happens is the faster you try to go, the bigger the mess you start to make. Also, an excavator is just a tool. Although it takes years to become proficient on how to use the tool, you also want tro make sure you have a good understanding of the basic concepts of the job you're trying to perform. Do you understand how to read a set of drawings, calculate and check a grade, compute volumes of material, etc. If you know all that stuff, and you're a proficient operator, then you really have something...:notworthy. I suspect that there might be a few guys on this site that fall into that category (certainly not me), so it would be wise to listen to them... Good luck... Joe
...what?....
why wouldn't they hire me on the excavator if i've received a full blown excavator training course?
Well, I graduated college with full blown business management degree, but no one would hire me to manage their business straight out of school. :wink2 Mike, you didn't mention that you were going to be attending a operator course. I think that what was meant is you may have a hard time getting a job by showing up and asking to be trained on excavators and only excavators. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, that's just how I'm reading the thread. If you are planning on attending a operators training course, then maybe... But, I'd bet that you will still have to "pay your dues" running skid steers and maybe even a "hand op excavator" some. If the boss sees that you are reliable, a good operator, safe and don't tear up the equipment they will move you up to excavators... Eventually... That's what I would expect in a career in excavating. Best of luck
PhD = Pine handle degree
I sure as hell wouldn't throw someone in the seat fresh out of a "training course". I would let them play around a bit, but they wouldn't be in there full time. I wouldn't want a newbie digging around a gas line or trusting him with pipe layers in a box 20 ft deep. Sorry, you need to walk before you can run. Start in the trenches and work your way up.
Ahhh... Now I get it.
Can you clarify this for us, Mike? Are you suggesting that you're going to a school to learn excavator operation, and only excavators--nothing else? I can't claim to know that much about the schools, even though the question seems to come up here fairly regularly, but will they teach you only one type of equipment, to the exclusion of all the others? Or is there some other type of "excavator training course" you're looking at? Either way, I think you'll find that you're limiting your employability by knowing how to operate only one type. Most employers have a varied fleet and expect their operators to be able to jump from one machine to another as needed. and, in line with what the others are saying, there's no substitute for the experience you'll get working with the equipment, as a laborer. If nothing else, it's a necessary part of earning the respect and trust of the guys who'll be working alongside the machine you're operating.
your best bet is to hire on as a laborer,OR if your lucky to get on ANY gear get on a roller or rock truck thats how my uncle starts them if they look decent he'll put them on a loader.dozers and excavators are more for the older guys with experience. its a respect thing,those in the equipment earned their keep there by busting their butts for years on shovels if you show promise your formen will notice you.i agree with rino,too many things can go wrong in percise digging with men in the hole its the perfect way to get someone killed. by the way if your on a machine and hurt someone and they prove your inexperienced,i'd have a good lawyer handy cuz your getting sued.
basically i would be attending a ceritified school where i would receive a certificate explaining that I have met the criteria for operating the hydraulic excavator, the course is i believe 8 weeks being on the machine, and some in class so really its not just learning about them. Your required to learn & complete Grading, trenching (with live individuals on the hole), surveying, etc. etc. I believe with the course I will go directly to an excavator's position as opposed to someone starting from the round head shovel with NO experience. I've already had plenty of experience on a variety of machines but not neccessarely dozers, graders, etc. i know a guy my age who's done this and he started in the quary making 30/hr. to start on a big CAT excavator loading gravel haulers. i don't see why I would be such a risk if I've spend weeks in the seat with a certified trainer....
i think the course is a great tool but its really based for people say for example labourers to have the small foot in the door not so much "here's yer 450 excavator go dig near the gas main" kinda deal. i'm puzzled the course only has excavator? i don't know if a firm would hire you with just knowledge of an excavator they look for the jack of all trades kinda operator who can run anything since most companys will throw u on say a dozer if your not busy and since you have no knowledge of it they may look past you.
you can get training for each individual piece of equipment. the problem with taking a course on each machine is 1. the cost, and 2. the time it would take to give the proper training for each machine.
i think the idea is for the new operator to have the oppertunity to start on the equipment but not neccessarely high skill jobs such as gas lines, hydro lines, etc. more so starting out on basic jobs such as backfilling, loading dumpers, or trenching. the course gives the future operator on-site work like digging a trench yay deep, and yay wide, digging around objects, movements, all types of grading... loading on lowboys, unloading, maintenance, fill calculations, using site drawings, estimating meterial, volume and weights, etc. any additional tips and info appreciated. Mike,
Thanks for the clarification. I think you'll find the consensus of opinion here, and out in the real world too, is that to expect to get a hired as an operator without anything but a training course in your resume, is a little optimistic. You'll notice that I said hired as an operator . I'm sure that the training will give you an advantage over another applicant, all other things being equal, but you may still have to prove you're worth a chance in the seat the old fashioned way. I'll reiterate what I said above too--there's no substitute for the experience you get looking up at the excavator, rather than down from it. On the other hand though, hiring-wise you could find yourself in the right place at the right time. I wish you luck!
Is this a private school, or some union apprenticeship program? If it's a private school, do they offer any placement assistance? Joe
I have to agree with this...There simply is nothing better than being down in the hole with the hoe swinging over YOUR head before your swinging it over others.:yup Also just a tip, being a foreman myself, if you are willing to jump in and do the dirty work (i.e. grab the shovel etc) even when you don't have too, it means a lot to your boss or forman and is in my mind a necessity to be a good operator. Good luck!:thumbsup Happy J
Good luck with it, but I didn't get hired on as an operator with a large firm out here because I only had 3 years experience. You can read a book and play on a closed course but when it really gets down to it, it's seat time that makes the difference. I don't claim to be an expert, nor will I ever be, I still have a lot of learning left to do, but I'm above the guys with zero experience applying for an operators position and I still didn't get a spot.
i agree with the rest on here, the school may give you a slight edge over the next guy, if you are applying for a laborer/pipe layer position, but as an operator you probably wont have a whole lot of luck. Hire on as a laborer, bust you ass and let your boss know you want to run equipment and you will be there in no time.
^^^I should have gone that route, learned some trench work for someone else, but I didn't get a real good opportunity to do so. Now I going to have to learn this business the difficult way....hard knocks.
the school is run in conjunction with the government, and there is immediate job placement upon completion. I'm going to ask the school what their take is on this. The demand for operators specifically around here is high. I'm at a big disadvantage as a manual laborer due to my extensive back injuries. I can't lift much due to this. I'm going to keep my head aimed at directly becoming an operator like the guy I met that started on an excavator at the quarry, and hopefully with any luck I will end up in the seat. I've earned my way up in the landscaping company I work for now, so going back to a full-time manual laborer for me would be a step down. I think I just need to find the right oppertunity, and with the older operators all retiring I'm at an advantage. Funny thing is when I pass a job site there's usually very young guys operating them. *Shrug*. Thanks for the clarifying, though. I want to be sure that a $20,000 course is even worth my time, when a guy with zero experience can do just as much as me by getting the oppertunity and not paying for a high cost course. I believe the certified-operator should have the higher hand over the guy who learned while buddy was on lunch. Mike,
$20,000? I'd pass, that's ridiculous. Sure they'll teach you everything you need to know, but as mentioned, nobody hires anyone right outta training. Just like the guys at my Cat dealership, they don't have the noobs working on my 312 if it goes in for work, the veterens are the only ones actually turning wrenches on those pieces. You could be straight out of diesel mechanic school, doesn't matter, you run the broom for a while until you are called upon. Becoming an operator is much in the same, you start in the trench, and when you're needed to run a piece you get called upon. Honestly man, 20 grand is a little silly for operating school, especially when you're probably only REALLY going to make about $20 an hour once you actually become an operator, that's not a real good return on your investment IMO. A buddy of mine is going to Universal Technical Institute (UTI). Not sure if you're aware, they are a automotive/diesel/industrial mechanics school and they say the same thing: "We guarantee job placement for every graduate". Sure they can give you a job, but more than likely it's one you'd probably never want to take, leaving you absolutely crushed that you blew a wad of time and money on something that didn't really get you anywhere. Unless you graduated in the top 5-10% in your class, you'll be working at Jiffy Lube right after sloshing down $30K worth of school. I'm not here to tell you what to do, but as a young guy currently going to college and looking at other education options for myself down the road those tech schools want you to believe it's super easy to get a $60-70K job right out of school, no way in hell that happens for everyone who graduates. They will train you everything you need to know, but without a good paying job to back up what you've shelled out for school you'd be better off learning it yourself or starting at the bottom and working up, taking matters into your own hands. I know the mechanic analogy is a little different, but it's almost the same thing, so you'll just have to go with me on that one. Just my .02
I'm not sure heavy equipment operating is good for anyone with extensive back injuries. There's a lot of bouncing and vibration going on in the seat and guys with good backs are often sore at the end of the day.
I would upgrade to a class one drivers licence. Then take a course in pipe laying / waterworks before the excavator training. If you had that training and were willing to move to BC or Alberta there are well paying jobs available for people with some basic training. Spending 20K just for excavator training is overpriced. I have heard it cost about 6k for an 8 week excavator course. The waterworks course cost 3k for 12 weeks. And class 1 might be 3 or 4 thousand.
Fortunately the government funds this type of course (most of it, anyway) I'm just unsure now if I want to bother? It's kind of a turn off to be shut out because you don't have 10+ years experience. *Shrug*
geez mike, where are you here in ontario that they are looking that heavy for operators? Personally, spending $20K on a course sounds ludicrous. That's a down payment on your own machine, of course, there's a lot more training involved then too....business management, estimating, customer relations, and on and on.... Mark
You probably will be a RPS operator Round Pointed Shovel operator Yea or you will end up being the guy in the trench:yup I was running my buddies jcb 1550 and the two mexicans keep trying to clean up the trench soon as I pulled the bucket back. Well I chased them out of the trench with the bucket. That got them to stay back.
hey mike are you willing to travel for a course?,the one near me is $4400 plus the cost of rooming for 5 weeks,you get time on excavator,loader,dozer,backhoe and skid steer it'll save you big bucks and its not hard to save for it yourself,just a thought. i see your pondering student loans possibly? from me to you they are a farse the pay back interest rates are those equal to a loan shark and will ruin your credit like mine if you can try to pay for any course yourself.
Thanks for the input everyone. The company who dug our pool hole said the difference with a trained operator with a certificate (issued by the government) is night and day for a company. He told me basically without the training it's much much too time consuming and dangerous to train someone who's never been in one, though he's had success, he trys to avoid hiring an untrained operator (unless they have experience. He almost never does. He says just training someone to use the controls efficiently and safely take a considerable amount of time, and after that they're still at step 1 of 20. He just basically said for him to spend weeks training a guy to just operate it is not something they have time for, and the safety concerns are too high. Does this seem valid? To me, it does. i've had experience on numerous skid steer loaders/tractors/transports/etc. I can operate a skid steer loader very, very efficiently. I operate one of the largest available. CASE 90XT/ASV R50/BOBCAT 753/Belarus/David brown/ford/international/etc.
I think the training is a good idea, but not for $20,000. You could go out, rent a machine a whole bunch of times, work for some friends and learn to run the machine yourself. Then, get a job running a shovel in a trench, and when asked if you've operated before, you can say you have, but that you don't have a whole lot of real world experience, which most companies expect out of training school graduates anyway. The thing is, even with the training, graduates still have to run a shovel for a little while, I'm sure it's less time than that of someone who has zero experience whatsoever, but if you expect to be put on a machine right after training is a little overoptimistic, unless of course the company is really hurting and they want to take a chance on you. There's always different circumstances, but it's really hard to say what kind of guarantees you get out of spending $20K on a training course.
but what if your hired by a firm with more than just an excavator? (which is basically everyone) you won't know how to run his other equipment and that might cost you a job for the 20,000 you spent which is still over priced. if i own my own company and you come to me looking for a job to run an excavator what do i think of you?,you only have 8 weeks experience seat time (is there class time by the way?or 2 people per machine? then you have 4 weeks experience) i can train my own labourer to do it the way i want.
Excavator Training--On the job or formal school? Hey, Did you go to one of those schools, or is all your training on the job training on the excavator? I am debating this issue for some of my family members who want to become real good on the excavator fast, in order to get into some heavy demo work. What do you think is best?
There is an old saying among seasoned operators....first you get good, then you get fast. This all takes time, no matter how you get started:yup
I would like to "respectfully" disagree, Stay away from utilities when starting out! #1 They are dangerous #2 Their are always people around your bucket #3 You had better be able to run and grade with hand signals, you move that bucket the wrong way and someone will get hurt. The list goes on. Best to earn your wings where no-one can get hurt. Learn to run every machine you can, you would be surprised how much they have in common. With experience you will gravitate to excavators as your skill increases.
you know what. i'm not picky about how new the equipment is, what kind it is, what jobs i'll be doing, or how much i'll make (as long as it's reasonable). I'll run a piece of **** if I have to. As long as I'm getting experience Within the machine. That's key. Some company's won't give you the time of day on the machines without any experience no matter how long you work and how hard you work at it, I met guy's that stress how important the training is. They all say the same thing. "I wish I woulda' got trained back when I started out, I woulda' been alot better off, don't make the same mistake I did." So here I am with experience on skidsteers, and other machinery, looking to run an ex. I'll dig whatever, as long as I'm getting paid, and I'm getting experience. I never expected to be digging trenches with 5 guy's in the hole and hydro wires everywhere, and gas lines, and what ever else starting out. I want experience in the machine, not experience watching it being run. I'm not a visual learner, I'm a hands on learner. I learn by doing as opposed to being shown . And I feel I'm going to do well. I was put on the equipment at CPS within 2 weeks of working there. I now am a primary operator. Some of them have been there 9 years. First ever person in the company to progress that fast.
watch out for slopes they r a killer and good luck with your adventure
didnt you mention farm experience?? :Cowboy farm boys are naturals.. dont get e wrong you should heed all the advice given so far.. if you can afford take the schooling. really wish i had went the union route where i had some sort of formal training. BUT NOTHING BEATS TIME IN THE SEAT!! it sounds like you are enthusiastic and want to learn. wish we had a few like you here.
Just my $.02 because everyone else has given some. I own my own company, have over 250k invested in equipment. I do commercial and residential work every day and even with guys working for me I still do a lot of hand or manual work everyday. My back hurts everyday. I get dirty and dusty everyday. I realize that I am small company but one of my friends that own a very large company still do the same. And if he is still doing some manual work than all of his 50 employees all do manual labor and can run all his machines. Even his truck drivers run machines from time to time. Very few firms maybe the largest of the large have one guy for just one machine. I would bet that those companys would only have the most seasoned operators runing just one machine and no manual labor. That person would be someone that has worked for the company for years and climbed the ladder, or owner's son. Construction work of any kind is just hard manual work no matter how you slice it. Even loading the equipment on to the trailer can be hard work. binders, chains, ramps etc. Now a farmer is perfect for this because they know how to work!:bouncegri :notworthy
You're darn right! I was born and raised on the farm, best schoolin' I ever got. Them city slickers don't know spit! :bouncegri
Into the wind right??? I think farming gave me a large advantage too, and it didn't hurt we had a dozer.
10-4!!!!! twenty years after leaving farming i apply the basics of running equipment that i learned on a farm. not to mention the work ethic that was instilled in me.... thanks Bill(R.I.P.) and Randy Lanford.
I just have to add this...I took a couple weeks vacation and went out to Calgary, Alberta and operated a grader for a small paving company. I was just amazed on how hard the boss/owner worked along side his crew. He raked, operated the spreader and shoveled as well. This was for 13 to 14 hours per day! This gave me a lot of respect for those that own these small companies. My hat is off to you guys:notworthy
I would not even bother trying to get hired on as a laborer. You think youll be able to keep up with the Mexicans? Youll burn out before you even get started. 20 grand, out of your own pocket? Lets see Old beat dump truck - $10000 old beat up loader backhoe - $10000 20000 grand and teach yourself and start a business.
forgot the trailer, insurance, advertising, hand tools, and whole lot more.
Yep, there's a lot more to it than that. Plus the fact that having a backhoe doesn't provide instant business or make you an instant expert about the business either. But there's nothing wrong with learning through hard knocks, I'm still young and that's how I did most of my learning, but I started out landscaping first and then moved into excavation. There's just no way we could have jumped into excavation without our previous landscaping and light excavation experience, would have been impossible. Having zero experience and trying to start an excavation business will put you in a world of hurt real fast.
:usa mike hey man no one is picking on you but i work is this field as well as just about eveyone here ask anyone youve got to pay your dues..heres a question for you do you know how to grease an excavator?clean and/or change air filters?clean the under carriage? you as simple as that seems alot of newbies dont know that stuff..and the school is an ok idea but you cant replace experience with anything im an operator in the ooil feilds and i dig around very high pressure water and gas lines up to bout 35 to 45 hundred psi!!!! with the hole crew within 25 or 35 ft. if i mess up everone dies no mistakes thats the kinda of stuff we are all talking about sure its fun but its also very dangerous..so man noone is pickin on ya just listen to the guys like us that have been doin it for a while believe any good operator likes to pass down ideas and tricks to the younger generation we only want to help...so to answer your Q find an excavting or utility contractor around your area and be honest with them tell them hey im green but i want to learn im willing to put in the time and pay my dues and i promise you it will work out for ya man k (lifes a garden DIG IT) later man
Some guys are going to scream to go fast, but fast doesnt mean safe. And most utility companies are screamers. I've hired operators who came from other companies and they were surprised we didn't scream all day. Go slow when digging around utilities, always watch the laborers they seem to get in the way a lot.
With you 100% on that one.
Hi there, I'm new to the forum but have been lurking for a couple weeks. I was just going to send a short note to Grader4me but decided to share my thoughts with everyone. His post about the old saying "you got to get good then fast" prompted me to join the site yesterday. About 26 years ago when I started full time on heavy equipment someone and I can't remember the person, once came to me as i was learning on a tractor hoe and said those words. I'm in Southern Ontario and he is in New Brunswick. Isn't it odd how sayings like that get around and stick with people all their lives? There is a few points of wisdom a few people have said to me throughout my career and they stuck with me, I have in turn trained many operators and used those pieces of info to help them. How about "if those tracks are spinning your not working"? As for training schools I assume there is a lot of differences in them and it has been about 12 years since i worked with students that were trained in heavy equipment schools. I had 2 heavy equipment trained "operators" work with me in my carrier and they knew... nothing ! They were both told upon graduation that there were "operators" and we practically guaranteed a job where ever they went.....wrong.One guy did stick it out and work in the trenches and eventually got to move up the ladder. He is now a seasoned operator, the other guy as far as i know drives truck. You can learn all you want in a school but if you don't have the field experience your not an asset, you need to have been the man in the trench or the pipe layer to know what they do and what they are thinking to be able to work with a crew and be productive. With that being said it's a big world and yes you might go to school and get lucky and get a job like the one someone mentioned about a guy working in a pit loading trucks.....but those chances are few and far between. I'm not a betting man. You need field experience and time in the seat to be worth having around. Not 10 minutes here and there but days and weeks to get proficient. Work with a crew doing what ever job you have to and find the good operators and watch their every move. Learn what moves they make and why and how to handle the machines in different circumstances. When you think your good find someone better and keep learning!.......hey wait was that one of those sayings ? I once thought i was good....I stepped back from the hoe for a supervisors position and found out what good was when the new hoe operator started...he was a 40 year veteran. I watched his every move and learned every day. We parted company 3 years ago and i miss working with him everyday. With all that being said if i had to leave my current position, my passion is heavy equipment training. Well enough rambling Dave
Welcome to HEF IndySKS! :drinkup
Welcome to the forum IndySKS! Sounds like we have a few things in common. Great bunch of people here. Look forward to your posts!
As I was, and still am learning(the day you quit learning is the day you quit) about running excavators I had a few very good teachers and one thing the one guy always told me was the only way you are going to learn how to do things is to sit your ass down in the seat and just do it. You will learn both what to do and what not to do.
I would never spend a cent for heavy equip operator school. I would instead buy a machine and learn it, unless you can find someone to hire you, or train you with out you getting paid. In a union you can get free training. As far as operating an excavator, it is just like in my post in Dozers, about the 3 things needed to operate. The easy part is making the machine move, the other 2 things are more difficult, knowing how to make the machine work, and then knowing what to do with the machine while working it. By working the machine I mean how to load it, and dump it,etc. manipulation of the GET and not wasting time doing it. And knowing the job is the most difficult. That is the machine just arrived on the truck, and you did too. Now what? Thats knowing the job. I think the best place to learn operating excavators and dozers is in land clearing. Also it is the best place to get killed if your not careful. I think clearing guys are the best operators, ah the ones that really know how to do it anyway.
Sounds like you need to take the course and hire on with a pit that has a mechanic. Because of your back! It still will not replace experience but it will help you get some basics.
:usa hey man wuts up? you know really honestly the only way to learn is to practice and practice and practice some more all the skoolin in the world will not replace experience and as far as land clearing having the best EO's i would go that far think about your guys that set grade or work around utilities i would say land clearing is the easiest by far not to much to mess up there besides killin the wrong tree lol later
Not much to mess up? Well not much to mess up cutting a grade, just add more and compact it. I know footings are a different story. Utilities yeah but its just digging or grading. Clearing: If you consider the dozer or excavator as not much to mess up, or going hundreds of feet outa the clearing boundrys as not much to mess up, then I guess you are correct. I would say clearing someones land that didn't want it cleared can be as or more expensive than hitting a utility, but then again in clearing you can hit utilities as well. Like hidden hydrants on site, and then a case I remember, the home owner trying to save a buck and felling some trees, one hit some major distribution lines, with utility lines below. Lots of homes with trashed electronics, and one house on fire. So clearing shares that with the normal old dirt work stuff. In clearing you learn to operate in situations you will never encounter doing anyother kinda work. The machine and your life depends on you staying sharp and alert. And if you don't think it is more difficult doing clearing then you most likely don't really know how to do it, especially with a large dozer and rake. Its not like the old days you can't push up a pile of dirt to toss in a grinder. Its a whole different world chasing sticks around, than it is pushing dirt, that is sticks and not touching the dirt. So I'd say its much more fine control than grading.
I never realised it was that hard to stay within the flagged areas. If you can't figure out how to stay on the correct side of the flag, then Yes....I guess it would be more difficult. I don't think anybody can say that pushing dirt is easier than clearing land or vice versa. Both have their challenging or easy qualities, which ever the case may be. I think it would be incorrect to say one was easier than the other when there are so many different environments that we work in.
so your tellin me that pushing up some brush is more dangerous than diggin around a 3500 pound water line or gas line come on man lot more dangerous what is there to mess up with a root rake?? or a tree falls on your iron yes that would suck but not life threatening not really...and as far as it being more expensive to fix a mess up clearing brush what replace a few trees maybe as opposed to cutting a fiber optic line or phone that costs thousands of dollars every hour or so that is cut so i would say land clearing is prettttty simple .
I think it's sort of an apples and oranges comparison. Good, precise control of your machine is necessary to cut grades, or dig around live utilities. Certainly there's more danger, to both yourself and the public, if you screw up the latter. On the other hand, taking down and handling trees has its own set of risks. There's a lot of weight there, and when they're standing up, you need to pay close attention to where that weight is going to fall. Once they're laying down, and you start pushing and pulling on them, you put a lot of energy into them. Make a wrong move, and they can spring back at you and do some real damage. Personally, if we're talking about trees, I think clearing takes more concentration and skill than a lot of the simple digging tasks operators do. Pushing brush with a root rake? That would be pretty basic, I guess, just as bailing dirt out of a foundation is pretty basic. Either of those would probably be good for getting practice, practice, practice, but as in the examples I gave above, you get past the "basic" and pretty soon you really do need to know what you're doing...
Nope, wrong-o. Crossing utilities, working VERY close to houses and other structures, as well as fine grading easily top clearing. I like clearing and the reason is, after spending weeks and weeks crossing utilities and existing structures, clearing is a nice relaxing change. Ever felt like you have aged 2 years in 2 hours while digging around gas lines, water and sewer lines, telephone and fiberoptics, electrical conduets (sp?) and more of the such???
Yep..... :dizzy Thats why we get paid the big bucks It seams like thats the only kind of digging I ever do. That and production loading. Open cut/brain dead trenching in virgin ground is very rare for me. I don't know why :beatsme As for aging? All the time...in fact I age one year older this Sunday :drinkup :cool2
It must be the way I say stuff, because no one ever gets it. One guy says pushing brush isn't hard. No it isn't, neather is pushin dirt. Some say working around utils and houses are the most difficult. Not if you are an experienced operator. All those utill and house jobs are is headache jobs. And besides we were originallly talking about learning. In clearing you do all the same as far as working near houses, and utilities. And in my state it isn't just pushing brush and weeds. Its removing large fir trees, and stumps of all sizes, old growth firs can be up to maybe 12 plus feet diameter, and yes even some very wet area's. How do you get out of a flagged clearing limit? Well now they do a better job of flagging, but back in the 80's and early 90's, it wasn't that great at times. I worked one job where they just flagged center line of a pipeline right a way. The other companys operator, got lost and cleared 500 feet off the limits, so don't ask me how or why, I followed the ribbons just fine, matter of fact it was the best flagging job I had ever had at the time. And I had seen it happen many times after that. So it does happen. And like I said if you don't think clearing is a very difficult job then you don't know how to do it correctly. There is so much more to it than just dropping the blade an going, like in the photos of the Alcan hiway movies. Yeah that may have been the way to go when you could just burry the trash. Here we couldn't ever do that. It was either chipped or burned. In most areas it is chipped, that means no rocks or dirt in the debris. A nice test here, you have a 30 degree slope full of 2nd or 3rd growth fir trees spaced maybe averaging 3 to 6 feet apart with lots of other scrub with it like some vine maple etc. Whats the way to go about it? You have one machine on site a nice old D8H and lucky you its logged so all ya got to do is remove 2 to 3 foot diameter stumps and deal with some old maples standing the loggers didn't want. You got say 5 flat acres above and below the sloped area. Explain how you would do it. Oh and the debris is gona be chipped. The tractor has a clearing rake ( not a light brush rake) and a ripper with a splitter no side screens just the rear, no engine enclosers. Now if you were digging a sewer line for a new house, or a house pad in a new developement wouldn't that be pretty easy? The pad, you need it at what ever elevation that those corner stakes say. Sorry the dirt work/fine grading is less demanding, safer and much easier.
The problem here is that people are making broad generalizations about digging vs clearing. You can't do that. There's easy digging, and difficult digging, just as there's easy clearing and difficult clearing. Digging around live utilities calls for an experienced operator, with a steady hand, just as taking down big trees on uneven ground does. And both can be very hazardous if they're done wrong.
Just so I get this straight - how did all the really close houses and utilities get around the 3 foot diameter stumps up the 30* slope (uphill both ways I assume) and are these houses in the 5 acres? CB and Digger have already said that there are harder and easier jobs in both fine work and clearing work. You're trying to compare things that don't compare. I think that you are just trying to stir the pot :stirthepot and see if you can get the fine grading folks worked up, :IMO it seems to be a sport for you. I don't want to see this forum dragged into a rant filled, flame fest that so many others turn into. :my2c
Going to start from somewhere and that is most likely on yer feet with a shovel or checking grade. That's the way it is. PHD? Piled higher and deeper. I'll let you guys figure out what is piled. :cool2
If your ever going to load on a trailer... don't hesitate when lifting the machine with the bucket to get the blocks under. Might be a little shakey but she isn't going anywhere. Good luck!
Well, here it is right about 4:30 in the morning and I'm still reading this site. Like a good book... can't put it down. The advice I've read on the last six or so pages, to me, shows the level of commitment and competence... and experience and ethics, that makes me rather proud to belong to this site... And we do own an excavator... little Cat 312 BL. Keep up the good work people, your combined knowledge is invaluable. Puzzled about one thing though, and maybe, I missed it? Here on the ranch we always thought PhD meant... Post Hole Digger...
Well whatever happened with Mike? did he go to school? is he "operating" an excavator? My situation is similar to his but i dont plan on going to school for it. I learned how to operate a backhoe when i was 14 digging out stumps and grading my backyard. since then ive run a few other backhoes, mini excavators, skid steers, loaders, and tractors. I currently work for a landscaper installing paver patios. ive had seat time since i started working for them but i want to move on. Two days ago i spoke to the owner of an excavation company and hes supposed to call me to come in for an interview. so i guess we'll see how it goes. BTW im working on getting a class A cdl too. Frank
if you keep on asking around for a start someone will give you a chance and if you prove to be keen and interested you wont look back... probably how most of us started out anyway!
Nice thread. I can add this article that i found yesterday: How to become an excavator*operator . Maybe it will be usefull for sb.
I had some former Marines who chose to get out and try their luck with heavy equipment. One actually went to the School in Arizona for heavy equipment. He came to find out (later told me in email) that the courses were not worth it. Class sizes of like 10-12 people with only 3 or 4 operational peices of gear at a time. LOTS of down time on that pretty big chunk of 20k. And just like previous posts stated, UTI and/or other vocational schools will "gaurentee employment upon graduation". Well, when my Marine graduated said school, off of the hire sheet he was given, 5 no responses, 3 offered less then 11 a hour and 2 required 2 or more YEARS of EXPERIENCE. Sounds like a load to me....just saying. As with the other posts previously mentioned, good luck with just going to school and hiring on as a excavator operator. I would say that respectfully of course, but time in the trenches or checking grades, is warranted and most likely will be where you end up. But with closing this post, I will post the two-liner I have used the past 8 years while teaching new operators a new type of equipment or new machine: Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Time tested, worksite approved. Regards, YID
im 32, watched alot of old boys... and il say this... all equipment is the same.. its alearn as you go, watch guys dig, ... an listen. not to people. and ,id hate to give a secret away..some hear think there opereators. ive worked with some great guys... and ive worked with........all construction equipment. you wana get somewere.... if you farmed.your on the rite track to start.. theres more to being an operator than folowing grade and chewing your cigar
I work with a company that has thirty to fifty excavators operating at any one time. We have been continually disappointed with grads of equipment operating schools. We prefer to hire experienced operartors or when time permits, train an employee who has worked with the company as a labourer, truck driver or some other position.
I have a poclain TCB 90 I need pictures of similar excavators
Yep, Post Hole Digger… the only business where you start at the top and work your way down.
My excavator training was buy one then learn how to operate it. Got to admit when I saw it sitting on the trailer 3 1/2 feet up in the air, it made me nervous. Mostly knowing my only experience was I had tracked an excavator was about five feet two weeks before when i bought it. My first two jobs with were tearing down houses, and loading everything to be hauled away. Nothing like having a bunch of side walk superintendants, watching while you learn to operate an excavator. The biggest mistake I made was not buying one years ago, what an enjoyable way to make money. Hope I can keep it a little busier this year, but can't complain about last year.
So how many houses have you demo'ed with it now? Which model did you buy? Got any pics? Loved your comments about the "sidewalk superintendents."
I knocked down and hauled away three house last year. Have two to do this spring and two other buildings. One basement to dig, and some concrete to remove and place on a ditch bank. So I am happy to have that much lined up, for spring. It is a Case 2004 CX 130 with 1800 hours, with a hydraulic thumb and back fill blade. If I ever figure out how to post pictures I do have some, of demolishing and setting some steel grain pits for a farmer. Having side walk superintendents seems to come along with doing much work in a small town.
Glad to hear you are so busy, which is remarkable given the state of the economy. How old are the houses you are demo'ing? Are any of them real old, and do you save any good antique stuff out of them, or is it all pretty much trashed? Sounds like you are doing great with that Case track hoe. Nice going, dirty.
The economy here has been great, it is a small town farming community. For two years I worked everyday but the holidays with only a couple days off. I have been turning down work as I was to far behind. On some weekend I help the local electrician as he is so far behind, just for a change of pace. He finally hired another full time guy, so only helped five or six weekends last year. This year I am planning on picking the jobs I want even more, and trying to take it easier, by running the excavator more, and less carpenter work. One of the house's I tore down had logs for the rafters, with the tops hand hewn. It had been lived in till I tore it down, the outside walls were still pretty straight. The interior floors had dropped down due to a lack of support. One of the other palce's I tore down was for a church, and I tried to salvage what ever I could for them to scrap out. They were thrilled with how much they got for all the scrap, yes it cost me time, but sure made a happy customer. All of the jobs were bid so they didn't care that I spent time pulling out the newer copper and the cast iron. I really enjoy running the excavator, wish I had bought one years ago. Still have a backhoe for some jobs, but it sits more as I would rather do a job with excavator.
I waited many years to fulfill my dream of being an excavator operator. Encouragingly, there are many operators, and they all got there somehow, its amazingly fun and if wanted, you should pursue it no matter how long it takes (ask them how they got there). If you can't afford to rent or buy your own, then you probably need to find employment that will lead to equipment operation (contractor, municipal or utility, or maybe military enlistment), or befriend someone who owns equipment. I rented my first experience with a backhoe. Operating it was not a thing of beauty, and I did smash a tree I would rather have not damaged, but it was on my own property. After that, in my position as an electrical contractor, I found some opportunities to run backhoes for friends and clients who (perhaps foolishly) trusted me. Instead of joy sticks, the backhoes had individual controls, which I estimate takes at least 300 operating hours to start getting the hang of. I once heard that if you want to learn to operate, spend a few hours at the controls, then spend all the time you can afford watching professional operators. That advice has served me well. At about 55 y.o. I sold my city house, bought 60 acres in rural Idaho, and a bunch of used "yellow iron" from the "Nickel's Worth" classifieds (Excavator, Backhoe, Dozer, MotorGrader, Dump Truck, trailer). My objective was to become proficient on multiple units. Even being reasonably proficient on the backhoe, switching to the joy stick controls of the excavator took about 2 weeks of continual use before I stopped smashing my spine every time I accidentally lifted the tracks and too quickly dropped them back down. You might compare it to switching from being a proficient typist on a standard "qwerty" computer keyboard to one with some other arrangement. It probably took a year of operation before I could put the bucket where I wanted it, lift a load, and load a truck, by just "willing" it to happen, as you would when you picked up a glass of water with your hand, rather than having to "think out" each move. Learning reflex operation is part of your every day life when you are 2 years old but can be rather frustrating during your mid-life crisis. Passion and patience make it happen. All that said, if someone wanted to use my equipment for learning, the most I would let them do is either dig a hole in a large open space, or fill a truck from a pile of dirt. However you can't learn more sophisticated activities unless you can control the machine's basics. Eventually you have to master multiple movements of the arm and bucket, like when digging the bottom of a level trench. I practiced by moving the bucket in and out while keeping it level just above the ground, eventually advancing to motions like smoothly moving the bucket from ground to top of truck. On my own property I learned to dig holes and load a truck, dig stumps, carve (pioneer) a road along a hillside, load logs and "throw rocks" using the "thumb," use the hoe to unstick myself, remount a track that fell off, replace hydraulic hoses, pull down trees, level and grade using the boom and bucket for finish grading or carving a level pad for further safe operation of the machine (instead of a 6-way dozer which is often the better choice). I can envision using a computer simulation program to coordinate visual input of a boom and bucket with hand operation of joy sticks, yet you eventually have to include your body's feel of the machine. Another point is that the individual cylinders operate with different rates and forces which change as you combine the boom, dipper and bucket in different ratios. After all that, to operate independently, you need to understand the physics and dynamics of all the sites and situations where you might work. I've applied my understanding of "vector math," meaning that every force not only has magnitude but direction as well, to predict the results of my application of the bucket to any task. I agree with many of the other previous suggestions of the things needed to learn. But if you have the passion, its all fun and worth the investment of time. If you have some equipment experience and construction savvy, your money might be better spent renting equipment for seat time rather than taking a course, however this also requires some "place" to operate. A relatively cheap mini-excavator rental (the size they will use at a school) will serve just as well to learn the reflex operation of the controls (and uses less fuel). I've often thought a quarry might be amenable to learning time, although everyone is wary of legal liability. My last advice is to remember that hydraulic hoses can leak slowly or burst (I've had both happen), trapping or crushing you - NEVER allow yourself to work under something held up only by hydraulics, from car jacks to excavator booms. At 66, I now solicit tractor work and can't foresee when I will quit. It was definitely worth the wait, and I only wish I would have pursued equipment operation at a much younger age.