I've been asked to give a quote on re-doing a camp road approximately 600 700 ft. it's very hill-ly/steep 50 too 60 degrees or so. Sub-grade is solid granite. Whats on it now is rotten granite and it's washing away/ruts 5-8inch deep. I was thinking whatever is put on it would have to have a steep center to edge grade maybe 2" to every 1' over an 8' drive. Whats the best material? Thank you David
Grade it out with crusher run and pour 4-6" of concrete depending on what type of traffic uses the road. That would be a lasting solution.
He live's in Maine cm....lol.... water gets cold there, and slippery.... would have to put some radical grooves in it for braking,,, and then the snowplow would hook them. I guess rap (recycled asphalt) would be my material of choice... but still 60 degrees would take its toll for sure.
Hmm, note to self - see location of member before posting.:tong Question - What would be the difference in a rough broom finish concrete and RAP in a slippery, frozen type situation? Seems to me it wouldn't make that much of a difference but I have no experience with the conditions you guys up north deal with.
Well if its real thick ice on it CM (like the kind that coated willie's ford last winter, ha ha) it wouldn't make much difference. But just normal winter when you put the brakes on you can pull up some rocks from the rap to slow you, but then with today's anti skid brakes your in for a ride that make your southern rectal muscle pucker....ef.ef..ha ha.
Yeah had one of those one time but it was on very slick wet clay. It was a temp. road on a project the loggers were using to carry out loads. It was the middle of summer, everything was dry as a bone and an afternoon T-storm came up and dumped 1/2". I take off down the road, clay slicker than owl snot and well...that is why I have a Ranch Hand front bumper - cheaper than a factory replacement and tough as nails.:cool2
If the subgrade is solid rock,why just not remove all of the ''base'' material there now as long as you can get a decent plane on her.Anytime you have ledge rock as a subgrade,nothing granular will hold up in a gullywasher except blacktop or concrete,especially on a steep hil
Wouldn't 22a be good enough? Maybe compacted?
Wow, are you sure about this?....that's somewhere between 110% and 133%. Are you sure it's not 50 to 60%? Not that it really matters here, but I've never seen a grade like that and I'm curious.
Alco you may be right, I'm not that familiar with grades. The sub grade is rotten granite with granite boulders embedded, so you either cover them or blast them. Hot top and cement are too expensive for options. The only thing I can think of is a very stony 2" minus with a lot of binder, somthing that would pack like cement and maybe grade twice a yr. No plowing to worry about (summer camp). David
What about lean mix topping something like a 5 newton concrete ?
Interesting note Stock. Soil cement, do you mix that in a pug mill?
There are a couple of ways of which a plug mill is one, a draw back might be contamination of biodegradable material. mostly here when we did it we used tippers hauling from a batching plant. I was laid with a paver on motorway projects 12" deep on top of compacted 3/4 down crushed road base. I have also laid it on smaller projects with similar criteria to this one but domestic usage, and of course we don't get the extremes of weather that Maine has a a norm. It can be laid with a grader or excavator,compacted with a roller but must be left for a week to reach full load bearing strength. O' don't forget the crack inducers or expansion cuts every 6m or 20'.............
Do you know the percentage of cement that is used in the mix?
If blacktop is cost prohibitive there dsgsr,you can always go with blacktop millings if there's a plant by you that offers it. Tell that camp's owner to dig a little deeper into their cookie jar because it's going to be that old scenario o it cheaply,it will look good for awhile[read that until the next gullywasher comes],then redo,again and again---OR--do it once,invest WISELY,and put down some type of hard[blacktop,concrete,millings] surface that rain won't scour and undermine.I would also put down a HEAVY crown and have 1.5'' crushed stone on each side for drainage.
http://www.pavingexpert.com/calcall.htm#focus10 great little resource here Granpa.................
Wow, that's a neat tool Stock. :yup
I don't know how well this will work on top of solid rock, but the only way I have ever had consistently good results on dirt is to place a layer of large clean quarry rock (we have 4" to 8" quarry spalls available here) then spread a thin layer of smaller rock on top (3/4" minus or small crushed concrete). I usually spread the top layer 2" to 4" thick. After the mixture rolls around a bit the small crushed rock drops down into the voids and locks everything together. I like it when after it is all settled and packed down you can just see the tops of the quarry spalls poking through. It is not the best looking road (homeowners always want to add more 3/4" minus on top to make it look better, but this just screws it up), yet it has always worked for me. Good luck.
Grade it out the best that you can (given that you´re working around outcrops) and put down crusher run with up to 3'' aggregate on the problem areas. You´ll need to redirect the flow of water from where it is forming the gullies.
asphalt recycle.....8" deep....wet and roll in 2" lifts...come back next fall, have them chip seal....won't be able to tell it from virgin paving...maybe even better.
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Might as well give up. You ain't driving up and down a 60% grade.
I would concentrate more on getting the proper drainage whatever that entails.If you could get a culvert or two in the right place to control the runoff it would give you some options on the resurfacing. I like the millings idea but the object is to sell what you have if you can.Did you get that screening plant running? I saw a post here the other day about home built screening plants.Ron G
No chances for culverts, RonG. Think about going up to Larry Hardisons camp, Straight up and down but only 200'. Worst camp road on Molasses Pond. Got the screen up and running, makes some nice looking 1/2" loam. David
I really don't see how that you could get any material to stabilize at that grade without anchoring it to the ledge. Whoever built the camp must have had some ideas .Ron G
People from away, No Ideas and at this point don't want to throw much $$ at it. This camp and the next one up were accessed by the same road, new owners and a property disput lead to a new camp road. New owners had the new camp road blasted in but didn't want too spend the $$ to have it done right, Now the problem. David
In all my years I've lost count of "we want a job done but not for it to be too dear" or as a buddy says "I can do a good job: I can do a Fast job : or I can do a cheap job. I can't do a good fast cheap job". If they don't want to do the job properly then it will become a millstone around your neck,with you being responsible for the job. Remember if it washes out they will blame you,do up a price to do the job properly and if they want it done let them pay for it if not walk away..............cheap jobs swallow money need to be revisited time and time again and eventually done right. Just one other point if people can't make it to the camp how can the camp make money................
Yeah Stock, that reminds me of a phrase a favorite comedian of mine Bernie Mac (now since deceased ) had. (This may be attributed to someone else but I first saw it on his show). The Bernie Mac triangle of construction work - The 3 points of the triangle are: 1 - Cheap 2- Fast 3- Good You can pick two of the points of the triangle but can't have all three. Cheap and fast = not good Fast and good = not cheap Cheap and good = not fast
I think best paving material that will suit in this type of driveway will be the pavers which have rough surface so it gives some grip.
I'm thinking your correct
2" crusher run with lots of fines graded and rolled, topped with 4 to6 inches of asphalt millings (rap). Roll the **** out of it on an 80 or 90 degree day. Done. If they don't want to spend the money don't do it, as said above it will haunt you.
Are you sure its not a rock climbing drive for extreme driving, anything over 30 is very steep. What happens is the truck will not make it up the hill , and you will slide down backwards, yee haaaaa!! and your driveing your 49 GMC. Have fun.
you probably need to leave it like it is and do a little cosmetic repair from time to time. as was mentioned previously, If you get it too smooth it's going to turn into a zoom flume for your vehicles in the winter.
I looked at a similiar driveway project yesterday 500' long going down a steep grade built out of #53's (1/2"-1-1/2" stone with lime ) that has washouts down it. I've never had any luck on steep driveways with out them washing out again over time. Of course the homeowner doesn't want to spend anything or do it right. I'm curious any body tried harley rake existing rock and re-rolling getting rid of washouts. I recommended to the owner that the road needed to be crowned to shed the water off to the sides, but I know he's going to shiq over the cost of 4-5 loads of rock. I wish now I hadn't even went to look at it cause I know he won't what to spend the money to do it right, and if I do it cheap like he wants I'm the one it'll come back on. Any body tried any kind of geo materials, I'd seen this material but don't know if it works or cost of it . www.stabiligrid.com 3 likes, 0 dislikes
yep!! but very expensive.Used as part of a sustainable urban drainage system (suds). Here they are graded by load/weight bearing the higher the load then the higher the cost
I've seen driveways like that but instead of a plastic form they were made of concrete. Looked realy nice too. Had a kind of octagon pattern all linked together with grass growing in the open centers.