I was going to say cheap but thats rather an oxymoron. In another thread I was asking questions about a 1980 Cat 920 wheel loader. That purchase fell through, so onward the search. I've have 40 acres with possibly as many as 1000 very large trees down, most pushed over leaving huge rootballs. Mostly red oak ranging from 2 feet, with some over 4 feet in diameter with the bigger ones leaving 10 to 12 foot root balls. The state will pick the root balls up if I get them to the right of way, but I have a steep 1,000 foot driveway. Dozer, track hoe, wheel loader? I can't barely buy one old machine much less three, so I'm thinking a decent wheel loader is the best choice. So the question is, what's a good old cheap machine under $10k. There's some old Houge H50s. Old Volvos, AC's, JDs, Cats. Guess what I'm asking is opinions on ones to avoid, ones to look for. Ones I can still find parts for
Add a dump truck minimize trips. Loader breaks are usually first major repairs needed juice or air will be expensive. Find a loader test the breaks hill is a bad place to find out only have 1 working
That is a bad working day! Been there done that lost a few of my cat lives that day.
Yeah i absolutely need brakes. Driveways 1000 feet. 14% grade, dirt down to the last 300 feet, then 24% concrete.
A friend "Stored" a CAT 910 at my place to keep it from his wife's view.... I used it a few times on the farm, moving mafia blocks, etc. What we found out in trying to use it in tree cutting, it's not set up for "off roading" nor is it guarded like a dozer or log skidder with belly pans for in the woods.
In a perfect world id have a track hoe, a wheel loader, a dozer, a big dump truck..... I can only afford one machine, and I think overall a wheel loader is the best option. Dozers all seem to be huge money pits. A hoe would work, but it would be slow running up and down the driveway 100s of times. And it would take a good sized hoe to carry 10k pound root balls. One thing I wondered, do these wheel loaders have engine braking, or you gotta use brakes all the way down?
No Jake 2nd brake is the bucket.10k be hard find a safe decent machine loaders are not mountain goats . Old rolloff box or drag box pull it down
No they don't have engine braking and if you ride the brakes all the way down they will burn up in short order. Judicious use of the transmission is the order of the day. Wheel loaders are notoriously bad off-roaders, as in they have little or no traction on anything other than 100% rock/dirt or pavement. Get a bit of grass involved (of which I suspect you have plenty) and a wheel loader is likely to take off faster'n a greased pig....... As menioned above by @digger doug have you considered a forestry skidder.? Does this material you speak of have to be carried or can it be dragged.?
Skidder. While you are clearing you will be a lot safer and more productive. Selll the skidder after you finish clearing and are ready for phase 2 and then choose your next weapon. Track Loader ? Be prepared to spend at least double your 10k no matter which way you go. How do you get the state to pick up the root balls ? Do they use them for river bank erosion control ?
This isnt a easy deal to give advice on but i spent some time working at a Quarry and several years at a place that sold old equipment. Like has been said wheel loaders are not good in mud . I dont remember any with great brakes and i ran several with very little or no brakes . Buying a old piece of equipment and not having a major money pit is a gamble .
Don't over think this. Most of your stumps are going to be 2,000 pounds or much less. If they are super heavy, they have too much dirt in the roots still and need to be shaken out. It takes just a minute or two to dig at the dirt and bust it free from the root ball to shed the excess weight. Your 10-12ft root balls will finish closer in size to the butt end of the log. Also, most any 10,000 pound or heavier machine can break a root ball down to a smaller, more manageable piece and dig out the excess dirt. 20,000 pound or bigger machines do this work faster, but then you cross into more expensive machines. If I had a large project like this, I'd search for a cheap 50,000+ pound excavator. Then stack the debris and burn it. I use a 13,000 pound, 310A Deere Backhoe. Not a power house, but still capable and affordable. If I can't lift the stump, I use the hoe end to pick the excess dirt out and bust off pieces as possible to make a manageable load.
I've got a bunch like this. I also would like to keep and stack as long of logs as possible. The county/state is picking up debris, including rootballs. Idk what they do with the balls and don't care as long as I can get them gone.
If. And time is starting to slip away. The driveway is about 1000 feet down to the highway. Its 14% grade on dirt except the last 250 some feet at the bottom which is concrete. The concrete section is 24% grade. The state is contracting to pick up storm debris (trees) from the ditches i just need to get it down there. I have 40 acres. It was heavy forest and now its not. Almost every tree is pushed over or snapped off. And many of them are big red oaks. Big being 30 inches and larger, some over 50 inches. Many of the rootballs are over 8 feet.
I'd second the skidder idea. Get an old grapple skidder and if you don't want to drag the root balls on the concrete you will be able to find some way to pick them up. That's the type of work a skidder was built for
I've looked at that, but they won't haul or grade dirt. I'm going to have 100s of holes to fill. And I've got the wife looking at me. I need something that can dig, push, carry these trees, grade. Maybe something thats not so great at any one thing, but good enough to do most things. I've got an old case backhoe I can dig out any remaining stumps. But its too small to pick up most of this stuff. I even looked at a larger one, like a 580c. But 5000 pounds is all they're rated for lifting. Id need something much larger.
I understand what you're dealing with. Those giant root balls look daunting, but a lot of that is dirt stuck to the stabilizing roots. Roll them, pick them up, shake them off and they get smaller and lighter very quickly. A skidder, large CTL, wheel loader, etc will all get the job done. A skidder, while highly capable, is harder to sell off as they appeal to a smaller, niche group of buyers later. Get a 90cc chainsaw as well. You will need it to run a 36" bar to save those logs. If you want the job done fast, you need a large machine, 20,000 pounds or more. Your $10,000 budget is going to limit what you can purchase more than anything. If that's your budget, then renting a larger, newer machine would be the apt way forward. I would highly consider renting a large excavator and scheduling with a dump truck operator to work onsite doing the shuttle work. Prep for a day, then have him come the next to haul away what you staged. Prep another day, have him come the following day and haul away again. That way you don't pay him to sit idle.
I'm talking to a guy with an older Cat 920. Its around a 1974 but says it runs and drives and stops good. Been out baking in the sun paints all cooked, but he says if I come down I can drive it around and work it to see how it runs. Other stuff I see that I can afford is older or has no brakes. Too small, or too big. Like, I found a Michigan 275c, but dang, I dont need anything that large. Or an old Hough H50. I think the Cats a better choice?
Alternatively, rent a large dozer, push up a wind row of debris and light it off. Use your case to tend the fire, pushing it in as it burns down. At least here in Michigan, when we do tree clearing, I can burn the slash. Pile it up, call in for a burn permit, and make it dissappear. You'd be amazed at how fast you can get rid of entire trees, stumps included, in a good fire.
Hough and Michigan are orphans and difficult to get parts. The cat is old, but might still have some support by Cat. I dunno though. The 275c would make short work of this entire project. If the price is right, and it runs well, it might be a consideration.
Lol. I had an 044 Stihl I rebuilt. Sold it 8 years ago thinking I'd never use it much. And honestly I havnt needed it. But now I do. I've rented stuff before and always felt like I threw money away. I rented an ex some years back, they turned the pressure down where it could barely dig anything. I bought a tiny bobcat 322, that lil bugger would outdig that rental like no tomorrow. On these rootballs. The dirt here is rocky clay. Its like concrete. Guys are trying to knock the dirt off but still ending up with huge balls. Theres one tree, a red oak near the house, its four large trunks coming out of a single trunk. At the base its nearly 5 feet across. The roots are almost 15 feet across. Even if I knock it down a ways its still going to be a heavy son of a gun. And its got friends as far as I can see in every direction
Then you should have complained, and told them to take it back, or fix it.
I did.
I have burned quite a few rootballs like the one in your photo, and bigger. Like Colton said, get as much dirt off them as you can. I put them on the burn pile with the roots up. A day later I use my backhoe to get the exposed dirt that is exposed from the burn separated from what is left of the sump. I had good results with oak trees 4 feet in diameter. Some of them were so heavy I had burn them in the hole they made when toppled the tree over.
Yeah that may end up being what we do. But I still need to be able to pick them up, roll them around, move dirt, grade, haul and stack logs, and likely tear the house down. That's still up in the air.
So keep trying until you get a rental place that does what you want.
Track loader with a 4way bucket is the way I'd go. Even without the 4way, you can do alot of what your wanting
Fiat Allis 12g loader....there are no pix. ripped up huge stumps in one go. Radiators being in the back helped too.
A track loader with a winch would be even better........
I don't think anyone could talk me into buying anything with tracks lol.
IMHO you're approaching this challenge with a closed mind. People are suggesting options that in the real world will most likely work but you can't see past what you think you need. My 2c YMMV.
Like everyone else said- most old loaders don't have great brakes. Which makes the driveway a bad deal. And there's a pretty good chance, with a $10k loader, that you spend more time working on the loader than moving trees. Wheel loaders are great in a quarry or moving snow on paved streets, pushing downed trees in a 40 acre timber? Not so much. Especially if it gets wet. Dozer or track loader and push it all into piles and burn 'em up. Just think of it this way- what do you see the companies that clear tracts of land, using before they build houses? That's the equipment you want. Those companies do this work everyday, and make money at it. They certainly don't go out there with a wheel loader, because you're going to get it stuck and/ or tear it up. I think if I only had $10,000 to get it cleaned up, I'd rent something, or pay someone else to do it.
The state is going to be spending a ton of money it sounds like.
24% concrete drive is no joke. It eliminated all options with steel tracks right there. Done. Honestly, those trees can stay up there or get dealt with in pieces. Nobody needs to literally die on this hill. OP, there is no magic bullet to deal with this, within your budget constraints.
Fiat Allis 605 or 645 would another breed to look at. Back in the day they were were a better machine than cat. Apart from the purchase price of machines the most economical way to do your job with the least destruction would have to be excavator and dump truck(not wiggle wagon). Both could be easy sellable items on completion of your job if you buy good at the start.
No, no magic. As far as tracked machines, I've looked at them a lot. Everyone I've ever known who owned one put three or four times what they bought it for fixing it. I've read threads on this forum saying the same things, they just seem more often to cost small fortunes unless you buy a newer decent one. Around these parts, the power companies use wheeled machines. They have these big 4 wheel balloon tired machines with a boom saw. I havnt seen anywhere they won't go. And a 24% grade on concrete with steel tracks, that just sounds wrong but, idk. But it would probably destroy what's left of it i imagine. I've been reading, a lot really. And the brakes on a wheel loader, especially the disc brakes on something like a Cat 920 don't look real complicated. If my dad taught me anything you gotta have brakes. Yes, I'm sure a tree skidder would work up here with the trees, but thats about all its good for. I think if there's a traction problem with a wheel loader some tire chains would help. But its all hard rocky clay, traction has never been much problem.
Could one drag the big stumps down the hill in an area next to the driveway using the stump as the brakes? With a rented dozer, like a 650JD? Assuming they won’t roll.
Is your water table high? I see water in the stump hole. That could be trouble for tires.
The powerline rigs don't weigh anything. The booms are fiberglass and its just a frame and engine. Night and day to a wheel loader. As far as not seeing anywhere the powerline rigs won't go, there's a reason they have winches on the front and rear....
It rained over 15 inches after the tornado left. But that was two months ago. When it rains, its usually hard and fast. But most of the time its dry.
You should forget about that 920 loader right now. A 966 would have it's hands completely full with those stumps. You need a 30 ton or bigger anything to handle those root balls. I have a 36 ton excavator, and any of those would be a challenge to get going the right direction. A rubber tire backhoe, CTL, track loader, forget about all of these. Unless you are looking for something to dig the dirt off the root ball, because that's the extent of what any of those machines are going to be capable of.
Well sir, I do appreciate your opinion. But also, I'm probably overstating things. The biggest trees aren't exactly the norm, most are in the 24 inch range with 4 and 5 inch root balls. I'm also concerned about the concrete at the bottom, busting it all to heck. As I've stated, that part is 24% grade. Pretty steep. I don't believe a tracked machine would like it. And I don't thing running a tracked machine a 1/2 mile round trip up and down it is practical. But 30 ton wheel loader? I've got 40 acres to turn it around up here but I think it would end that concrete part in fast order. Then I have another mess to deal with. I'm not afraid to go down with a load. The drive has the hillside to plow into. I can drag the bucket to control speed, at least until I hit that concrete. Just yall realize I am listening and considering all yalls comments. But sometimes you just gotta make a decision and live with it. I'm not a rookie, I been around some. I can figure stuff out. I've ran some equipment. Ive turned a lot of wrenches. And probably know enough to be dangerous lol, but I ain't dumb. Well not yet haha. I think there's a couple of these rootballs that will tax a 20k pound machine. Give it a lil workout. But outside of those few the rest shouldn't be a big challenge. My biggest issue, why I started this post, is buying some orphan I can buy parts for and nobody knows anything about.
...and they are only trimming, not removing root balls 4' dia.
Back in the day at the Cat dealer we had a 910 as a yard machine. It was a small nimble little unit that was quite useful. If memory serves me it was made in Japan by Mitsubishi. To kill it one would pull up the fuel pedal. Had a two post canopy.
Its been pretty frustrating. I've tried contacting almost two dozen ads over the last several weeks, three have actually messaged back. Two of those sold, the third idk, he stopped responding. Today I stumbled into a case 580c CK loader backhoe not far from home (23 miles), can probably drive it home. I would like to thank all of you who commented. It didn't go the direction I intended but, whatever does?
Good luck and keep us updated!
I've got an old Trojan loader, it's 4 wd, which means 1 front & one rear spin = I've had it stuck on not much of a grade, wet greasy snow, soft ground, etc. Just my 2 cents here, if you haven't I'd consider hiring out getting the stumps out, then a logger for saleable logs [you might make some $$$$] leaving you with a lot fewer headaches to clean up.
How do you remove the stumps and then have a logger cut the trees ?
Then reverse the order Doug - not that hard -
I thought maybe things are done differently in Connecticut.....
I appreciate all the advice. Really. I stumbled into a case 580c backhoe and it looks like it will be following me home. Out of well over a dozen wheel loaders, only three sellers contacted me. Two sold, the other guy decided to go on vacation. This machine was at a guys house I went to look at something else. Just sitting there.
I think in the price range that you are looking at you’ll get more use out of the backhoe vs a wheel loader anyways. Might have to take things in a little smaller bites but it will get the job done and is a much more versatile tool. Edit: After looking at the pics and the size of some of those trees be VERY careful. Cleaning up something like that with a backhoe doable but takes someone who is quite skilled with both a backhoe and a saw. Work slowly and study the physics of everything that will happen when you make a cut. You’ll need to pull all the dirt off the stumps you can, cut the bigger roots off, and maybe saw the stumps into halves of quarters. Go ahead and invest in a good stout new saw if you don’t have one, something like a MS462 Stihl or the like. Might need to run carbide tip chains for cutting up those stumps. Also I agree with others, burn anything you can. Its the only efficient way of getting rid of all that with limited equipment. Thats a big job you have ahead, its doable but will take a lot of time and effort. Then again the old timers did it with far less....
If he tries to saw those stumps into pieces, he better own stock in Oregon chains, he'll go through a few per stump trying to cut roots....
I've done it before and had reasonably good luck, takes some common sense like removing all the dirt possible, watching out for embedded rocks and only cutting enough to weaken the stump, then bust it in half with the machine. Also when cutting any dirty wood always cut with bar in the clean wood pulling through the dirty wood, not the other way around letting it pull dirt into the cut. Lastly the type of chain does make a big difference, the Stihl RM (round chisel) chain lasts a lot longer between sharpening vs RS (full chisel) chain. Hardly anyone runs the RM because it doesn't cut as fast in clean wood, but in dirty wood it's what you want. I personally haven't tried the carbide tipped chains, but my father has and swears by them for really bad cutting conditions.
I do have my work cut out for me, thats for sure. I used to run Oregon chain a lot on other saws, McCulloch mostly. But all I own is stihl now and I like their chains better. I had an 044 I sold over 10 years ago after rebuilding it. Didn't see a need. Now I gotta find another big saw. All I have are 026/260 pros. And my lil 192t trimmer. I love that little saw.
I just had a brain fart. What if you got them reasonable and then rented a 10K telehandler? They will climb that hill in first, slowly, but they have these things called brakes and can handle, I dunno, 10K?
No this is 10k by itself, plus I gotta fix the brakes. This has to do the job.
You did not get what I meant. Get them all pared down big roots off, then rent a 10K telehandler for a day or two to move them down all at one go. A 10K telehandler weighs 26,000 or so. It has some ass.
So, as time is fleeting... In the beginning the county claimed if we got them to the side of the highway they'd pick them up. But we live on a state highway and they're saying no. And I don't have much more time. Probably going to burn them
Good plan.
With the size of stumps it's a good thing you didn't go with a Cat 920 loader. That would have been an exercise in frustration even with good brakes. A wheel loader will also tip over a lot easier. All it takes is for one wheel to fall in a hole accidently. A track machine is the best for what you want to do. You can somewhat pick apart the stump and roots with a backhoe. A track loader could roll the stumps and pick them up once the dirt is removed. Working in bush no one recommends rubber tires except if you're using a skidder and skidder's often have super heavy duty chains on them. Any chance a logger could come in and take the good wood in exchange or partial payment for cutting it down? Then you just have the stumps to deal with. Would be worth looking into what it would cost to hire a contractor with a big excavator to take the stumps out, especially if they had a dump truck or end dump.
I bought a 580c backhoe. Well see how far I get, lol
Get another saw yet? If ya was closer I'd offer to help. One of my likes saw work.
No havnt even looked, been busy working on this 580c. Got the brake housings off, they're all frozen. Tomorrow ill go back and get the masters pulled. Not 20 anymore, and the sun and humidity is brutal.
To big too move bury'em but stay away from Indian ground don't need more headaches