Thought you might enjoy this video. You sure wouldn't want any measurements to be off. The 820 tonne splitter was the largest of 6 vessels installed at the site. No sound on the video. I'm curious how many tonnes of weld is in the vessel. Some more info on twitter page says the crane came in 237 truck loads and took 28 days to assemble. https://www.jwnenergy.com/article/2...ts-record-setting-petrochemical-vessel-place/ https://twitter.com/hashtag/heartlandcomplex
Thanks for posting that Dave. The guy who had the hard job was the crane tailing that. The ringer just lifted straight up, the tail crane has more weight than the lift crane, and he had to pick and carry it to the top one. Granted, he didn't have near as much boom in, and I'm sure they had all kinds of spotters and radio chatter. Neat lift.
I think one of the links I saw mentioned that the tail crane was near its limit. Not sure what that would be but I'd guess they only lifted it as high as necessary. The video was obviously sped up but they made it look easy. I'm not sure if a couple guys pushing on it is enough to turn close to 2 million pounds to line the bolts up. When they're getting ready to set it down gives a better idea of the size. The lifting mounts for the tail crane look to be about 3" thick or more if I had to guess.
The tail and lift cranes start out with equal weight (maybe a little more on the head crane to start because of the pick point/ center of gravity), and as that vessel goes up, the tail crane will gain more and more weight. Tail crane ends up with 60-70% of the lift when it gets close to straight up, in the uprighting work that I've done.
That kind of makes sense that the main crane is keeping it from tipping over but the tail crane is holding it up. With walkways, piping and other components added before lifting it weighed 975 tonnes! The tail crane was a Leihberr LR1750 rated at 750 ton. I found the article I mentioned above. It says the crane was at 97% capacity so I'm wondering if that is the ring crane or the tail crane? Weight after final assembly was 24,000,000 lbs. Needed 3 smaller but still big cranes to assemble the ring crane. Any idea how many millions a lift like this would cost? https://www.craneandhoistcanada.com/transportation-ring-crane-hoists-record-highway-deliveries-1618/
Two things amazed me: They set it down so precisely that they didn't even bang up any of the threads on the anchor bolts. That tail crane is a 750 ton, that's way bigger than I've ever worked with, and it looked little in the video.
There's some indication of the size of the vessel but there's another video someone took while waiting at an intersection for it to go by that really shows how long it is. They said there were a couple icy hills on route moving it and they had use 10 trucks to get it up the hills. 725 tonne and 638 tonne vessels also hauled to the site barely got noticed. The 750 ton crane looks like a toy compared to the 1600 ton ring crane. Pretty precision job putting it in place.
Let’s give kudos to the guy that set the anchor bolts
You can see yellow straps and a ratchet chain fall just before they set it on the studs. Looks like yellow caution tape.
I wonder how many lifts a 1600 ton crane makes in a year and how many there would be in North America.
Reading about this lift they had some issues with components for the ring crane being too heavy for transport on roads so had to use special trailers to get it here from Texas. Apparently they are usually moved by sea.
I don't often post however this needs to be corrected to prevent some young operator from making what could be a fatal mistake. I have operated cranes from 2300 Manitowics, 50 tn P&H's through 4600's to 11320's yes I spent the last years of working career as a PM, but cranes have always been my passion and I have been involved in numerous tandem lifts. The only time the tailing crane could have more weight than the lift crane is if it lifts higher than the lift crane. I will leave it at that and show the illustrations of a tailing crane from the IPT Mobil Crane and Rigging Training Manual although this information is consistent through out NCCCO and other training manuals as well. If you need information on calculating weights you can find that in those publications as well.
That gives some clarification. I think on the vessel in question the lifting point further down from the top would put more weight on the ring crane once it transitions from horizontal to vertical?
Placement of the lifting lugs is determined by the location of the Center of Gravity, which is determined by the engineers (yea I know that is a scary thought) that designed the vessel. Be that as it may each crane will have X (ideally 50% each) amount of the load when it is horizontal, once the lift crane begins to rise the load from vertical to horizontal it will be accepting more and more of the load until at vertical it will have accepted 100% of the load while the tail crane will be at 0%.
All I got to say...."WOW".
sorry bout that my fingers got ahead of my brain should read once the lift crane begins to rise the load from horizontal to vertical
Sorry, but that's not what the scales will show on a tandem lift. And its not the way it really works. Or the way gravity actually works. I've done hundreds of tandem lifts, the books can say what they want. The lower crane will gain weight as the load gets closer to vertical. My cranes have scales on them, and you can watch the weight gain on the lower crane in a tandem lift. We regularly upright tanks. And if you have a 20,000 lbs tank, the lower crane will have about 12-13,000 on it just before the upper crane gets to vertical, and then the upper crane will "lift" the rest of the load off the lower crane. You want to make a dangerous situation, tell the lower "tail" crane that they will never have more than 1/2 the load. If the tail crane is at max with 1/2 the load, he's going to be in trouble. Lets throw out all your fancy drawings, and just use a little common sense. I know that's hard if you're a "project manager" but lets put the hard hat back on for a little bit. Lets do something that everyone can understand. You're in the yard and have cut a 8' chunk of 10" maple tree off a dead tree- and its laying there. You take the tree trunk, and leave one end on the ground, and push it to close to upright. Does it get easier or harder to lift and move around when upright or when its horizontal to the ground? That's right- Its easier with it more upright- because the weight is more on the ground. Now imagine your "tail" crane is the ground. The weight on the "ground" or the "tail crane" doesn't change whether its the "ground" or a "crane". Its more on the lower end. Don't argue with me and start showing me drawings yet. I've got more: Lets take a 400lbs I-beam. I can lift my end, I'm going to assume you can lift your end. But we probably both have all we want. Now I'm going to climb a ladder with my end. Think you can handle your end? I know I'm going to get better all the way up my ladder. You're going to be in trouble before I get to the top. Now when I get close to the top of my ladder with my end, I can probably just about balance that I beam on your toe. I'm not going to have much weight at all. Of course I know that I don't have a prayer of lifting that I beam up off of your toe -and dead lifting it all by myself, because I can't lift the full 400 lbs. But I don't have to have near that much lift to just get it upright, because you've already run out of lift and set your end on your toe. Sorry about your toe, but we are "tandem" lifting - and the book says you won't ever get more than 1/2 the weight. You can tell that to your smashed toe. Ever carry a piano up a stairs? You want to be the top man or the bottom man? Lets push it to cranes. Ever stand something up with only one crane? Leaving one end on the ground. It doesn't take near as much crane once you get close to straight up and down, because a lot of the weight is on the ground. The tail crane when you are uprighting is the "ground". Doesn't matter if its hanging from a crane or setting on the ground, its still more weight on the bottom. I'm constantly amazed by people that think gravity works differently, just because they have a fancy drawing. Don't worry, you aren't the first person to make a mistake. And if you still think I'm wrong, I've got a 400 lbs I-beam at my shop and a ladder, I can show you how the real world works, rather than a drawing. Better bring your steel toe boots. Because it doesn't matter if its 400lbs or 400 tons, it still works the same way.
as I said I started in friction cranes in the 60,s and was still running cranes in the 2000,s your PM comment is about as inaccurate as the rest of your assumptions. we all know what opinions are like and everyone has one. I try to back mine up with facts, not Maple limbs and ladders. If you stop and think about pushing something up a ladder as opposed to pulling it up from above you may begin to understand the "fancy drawings" as for your cartoon at the end that also tells me something. Thankfully I never had to work under your hook. That's right I started out with 2 years oiling/rigging on a 4100 Manitowoc, damn thing didn't even have a computer!!!!! I dont mean to **** anyone off I will have my thoughts and you are welcome to yours. On that note have a good day One of my smaller tandum lifts.
Got any more pictures of that Mack? Looks like a m45. I assume it was a float truck
SX 45 16v71 Allison yes bed tandum about 115,000 empty they are a horse had 4 of them and 2 prime movers Ill postsome photos when I get back to house
Awesome Thanks
Never thought I'd spark a debate about a heavy lift. I have helped carry stuff up steps and the bottom side definitely seems heavier. The vessel in question was close to 2,000,000lbs. with extra stuff added before the lift. It's over 300 feet long so I think the lifting lugs could be down 100 feet and it would still lift it vertical. They aren't down that far but are down a way's from the top which I would think might put more weight on the ring crane. One of the articles said the crane was at 97% so couldn't boom out which I thought was the ring crane but it didn't specify. When going from horizontal to vertical could the tail crane lower slightly while the ring is lifting to lessen the weight on it slightly? Mammoet are pretty much the experts on big lifts but doubt they'll join the conversation. Could the placement of the lifting lugs be engineered for the cranes being used to lift the vessel? This was a project with years of planning.
This is from the article I posted earlier. It looks to support the theory that the tail crane is at 97% which would be 727.5 tonnes. The ring crane would have to be at 1552 tonnes to be at 97% and the vessel "only" weighs about 1000 tonnes. I'm not a lift engineer and I don't want to take sides but real world experience can outweigh what a book says and Crane Op has posted enough pics. there's no doubt to his experience. The last pic. from the book where it shows the part tilted and weight goes up on the higher side seems odd. I would think the load would still be about equal. “We had to make sure it was precisely located so there wouldn’t be any interference for tailing the vessel,” Tremblay said. “Because the vessel was so heavy, the crane during the lift was at 97 per cent, so there was limited room for the operator to actually boom out further from the crane. We had to ensure the placement of the vessel, when it came on-site, was as-per the engineered lift study because we were playing with inches.”
some crane some trucking 4600 loading out 2 SX45 Macks 1 with married 150tn lowboys the other with single 250 tn lowboy with sea lift mods 100+ tn derrick tandem lift Z pad loading the 4600 full CW and 150 ft of boom Mack 1803 and double 250 tn lowboys Mack bed truck and sow each w/ 100tn of CW moving the entire pipe shed and related components
Wow great pictures. I love those big Mack’s. That in Canada?
North Slope Alaska yea it was fun
here’s a 1/50 model I have in the hallamore version
Now we must see the crane behind the Mack. Thanks
Sorry hank....ain’t no crane there. Something even better!
Well I'm a ***. And I don't know what I'm talking about. And owe Big Iron a BIG apology. So here it is- "I"m sorry, and evidently don't know what I'm talking about". I set up two cranes in the yard, and picked up my big spreader bar, with tensionmeters on each end- and put both screens in one cab. Stood the bar up and down so I could actually watch what was happening on each scale as I made a tandem lift. And I worked it all around in a couple different configurations, and it was a great learning experience. With the bar and both cranes free swinging, weight stays pretty even until about 30 degrees, then it starts climbing on the upper crane and constantly climbs on the upper crane until it pulls it off of the tail crane. The only time it raises the weight on the tail crane, is if the rigging jumps a little as it is rolling in a shackle, and "shock" loads the lower crane. I think you could push a little onto the lower crane also if someone was on a swing brake or off center a little, but I didn't really try that out with the bar. But it doesn't load up the tail crane more if they are both freely suspended. Interestingly enough, it is different if you remove the tail crane, and stand the bar just like you would stand a tank or tower with only one crane. Then you can actually loose pressure on the head crane as it "balances" itself - when it is breaking over center so to speak. Then the weight drops off of the head crane considerably as it stands at the end. Which I have trouble wrapping my head around how its actually different if the bottom is suspended from another crane vs. standing on the ground, but its different. With the lmi idiot lights in the cranes, the raise in weight on the tail cranes that we see, must be rigging moving, causing shock loads to the tail crane. . Most of the things we stand up and lay down- don't have lugs on each end for raising and lowering. We are just steel chokering steel legs, or nylon roundups choked on the flat bottomed tanks we stand. So when the load approaches vertical, its not unusual to see chokers slide or rigging reseat itself. That's the only explanation I have for the rise we see in the tail crane standing and laying down tanks. Its the momentary shock load as it goes vertical, and its rigging moving that blips the christmas tree lights. NOT the weight transfer of breaking over center. If the raise or lower is smooth- the weight transfer stays even. So all in all- Big Iron and the books are right, and I learned something. Too bad I just can't take someones word for it. And again, I'm sorry for being a jerk about it.
I admire you for making this post. I guess you could say my hat's off to you!
Kudo's to Crane Operator for doing a test lift and posting his results. I think sometimes on a job things can go different than what they're supposed to as well. Now I am confused if it was the tail crane or ring crane that was at 97% for part of the lift of the big vessel. It seems hard to believe the 1600 ton ring crane would be at 97% capacity (1552 tons) on a 1000 ton lift. I wonder if the speed of the tail crane driving in while the ring crane is lifting isn't timed perfectly to the speed the vessel is lifted could put more weight on the tail crane? If the cable was pulled ahead of the speed of the tail crane seems like it could put more weight on the tail crane? Also could it depend on how the vessel was constructed, ie/ the bottom section is a lot heavier than the top section? This is all interesting stuff.
Thank you C/O however you are correct in saying that that book is not always correct. Unfortunately for those of us pulling levers we are not always in the perfect world that the book assumes and you are right to question it with the experience you have gained through your career. No apologies needed I am glad that my experience could be helpful to you and others. By the way that post you made tells me a lot about your character, I made an assumption earlier about that about your character was completely wrong and for that I apologist. To welder dave I think they were referring to the tail crane. In the photos i saw it looks like he had a lot more boon than just basic (but and tip) which is how the crane is rated for max load (750 tn) with the boom he had in he was considerable less than than rating (not having a load chart for that machine I don't know what the deductions would be) hope this helps
Thanks for that. I thought the tail crane too. They had to have it far enough away from the house when it went to vertical. Like Mammoet said they were working in inches. Still impressive how precise the lift was. It would be interesting to know how much the vessel cost and how much to move and set it upright. Had to be 10's of millions. What would they have done if the job was suspended because of Covid 19?
I wasn’t sure who was right, so I remained silent
Crane Operator, in your examples the person doing the lifting for the upper end is exerting much more sideways force than vertical force. You would never allow your crane to exert horizontal forces (cable not vertical). If you would try the log experiment with the ground tailing the log on an icy surface you would get a different result. The ice would prevent any substantial horizontal forces, just allowing vertical forces. The only difference between theory and reality, is, in theory, there is none.