Hi deutz folks, after learning from knowledge stored in this forum, would like to contribute some, and hopefully be usefull to others as well. Now, two years ago i got BC 863 with infamous deutz engine, where camshaft which also powers diesel injections pumps, is driven by a belt, and in my case the belt has lost 5 teeth due to age. With help of Bobcatmechanic, Tallrick and others i was able to install new belt and fire her up. I measured the hole where camshaft pin should go in, thread is in block, and camshaft has a hole where pin ends up: on the block marked with circle and hole where crank pin goes in, also circled (located on the back of the engine: and came ap with a rough homemade pins: What i did not realize until i opened up the engine is that the pin leght is equally important, not just thread and diameter, because i assumed that it locks crank just the same as cam - wrong! it sits against flat section on crank throw, so if pin is too short or too long, timing will be off: My measurements are following, thread is M10x1; thread lenght 15mm, the pin end is 7.5mm and total lenght indicated with square frame is 52mm, though would be glad if someone could confirm it. Also, its not entirely correct that these Deutz BF4M1011 engines do not have any timing marks at all, however, those are not visible when engine is sitting in the skider, two holes on crank-end, where hidro-drive pulley/starter teeth gear bolts on the crank, aligns with block machined surface: Valves are intact, just 4 bent pushrods. I locked cam and put in the pin for the crank, then placed the belt on pulleys, but imediatelly realized it is off a bit. Slightly tensioned it, and removed pins and turned endine over a few times so that belt is seated correctly. then locked cam again, slightly loosened the bolt on the cam pulley, just enough that it stays straight, but allows the pulley to turn over, placed pin for the crank, and carefully turned crank slightly until crank stopped at the pin. tighttened cam pulley bolt, tensioned belt, and voila job done. So if you can source a cheap belt and tension pulley (i bought from the dealer - ~$200 ) then its really not a big problem nor is too expensive to change timing belt. Tallrick could you chime in what was Iveco/Magirus part number to keep it all in one place? Also would need belt tension gauge but that you can borrow from some machine shop or rent from a dealer. It is rather tough to do it with the engine in the skidder, as i could find no other way as to creep in from cab side, and look for a moment to thread in the pin, while my brother slowly turned crank, the process politely described by Atco Thanks all for the input on this :drinkup
Very nice job Andy, and excellent pics.
The magirus belt I used was a Dayco 091 RHDN 254 H part number 94525. The kit of belt and idler was around 70.00 a price I could live with. It is absolutely best to install the belt with the engine out of the Bobcat. As for the tensioner I admit to not using the real tool but doing it "by feel" wih the aid of a dial gage.. So far there has been no failure of the belt so I will keep my fingers crossed.
I did all the services on my gehl 4840 deutz, but it has 9xx hours on it now. The belt has a small tear in it and I can hear it as it goes around. Thank god the dealer has great service and parts guys and is located only 2 miles away. I am going to let them replace the belt and idler themselves before it breaks. Preventative maintenance is obviously the way to tackle this issue and I commend you for doing this yourself. I wish I knew about about the belt before I bought the machine, but I can't complain too bad. I figure it's good for it to go into the dealer every 1,000 hrs just to let them check over anything I missed.
Absolutely, but i have to say that i got my 863 just because it WAS serviced at official BC service, where nobody cared to change the belt, and when it broke, quoted obscene amount of money for a repair, besides they knew nothing how to install the belt, as they removed injector to try to guess the TDC etc, on another occasion they quoted something like $3k for suppposedly cracked controlbox, thou on a hoe, later on it turned out to be a rubbed hose, lots of bad experience with them, but unfortunately they are the only one nearby... so the owner decided that its beyond the point where its reasonable to go ahead for their services and sold it cheap. my luck, thou, a belt, pushrods, a few filters, some hydro hoses and , info from HEF and off it goes though now, during the winter time i teared engine apart as oil pan was leaking badly, and we had the most snowy winter so far, talk about bad timing
A smart business owner knows when it is time to write off a machine and let it go. My 863 also came from a business who sold it cheap because it had too many problems. The best place for a machine like that to go is in the hands of a handy homeowner. Once you fix it expect more problems. Some Bobcat dealers are incompetent and even the good ones are expensive for service. Do it yourself and get years of work from someone elses' problem machine. I know several companies that tried to rebuild a basket case and lost thousands of dollars in the process.
I have a BC 863 and an oil leak. The oil leaks out whether Its running or not. Cant see to find out where the oil is coming from. Just pour oil in and comes right out. Not as fast as I pour it in but can not run the machine.
If it has the Deutz it could be a radiator hose or radiator leaking. Need to know what motor is in it to help with your trouble.
Just bought a bf4 1011 motor, factory rebuilt with exchange. 13 grand! Take care of those little expensive buggers. This motor was a power unit that got tipped over and ran out of oil.
oil pan jake dyson oil pan i repeat again. pull the engine then the fuel tank out clean below the fuel tank. also check all the mounting bolts brackets and hardware. they are known for bolts ratteling out and then the engine drops and rubs on the fuel tank. the plastic wins in that battle between steel and plastic. more than likely the bolt on the hydrostate on the gear pump end came out also have seen the belt side bolt come out and the bolts on the hydrostat break off
you will have to get a new pan and the old pans are glued on with deutz glue. The glue is like concrete you will have to take a chizel and a hammer and be careful. tap it in and break the bond then peal off the pan
Crank Timing Pin I have noticed that there has been no response to AndyGrevis' request to confirm the length of the Crankshaft Timing Pin for the 1011 engine. I have poked around for a few weeks on various forums (fora?) and have seen 57mm, 55mm, etc. for length. Could anyone possessing the actual pin measure the dang thing? Also, is there any reason that the pin need be turned down in diameter? One contributer used a 50 mm bolt with no alteration. Would the full diameter bolt interfere with the setup? Thanks for any input. --Matt Russell Washington State, 863
It should work just fine on crank, but not on the cam. As for the pin lenght, well, i assumed that engine must be at TDC, and that gave me 52mm pin, but i will go to Deutz dealer in a few oncoming days, for a set of glow plugs, and inquire about the pins as well. Had i knew our local Deutz rep is so great, would not mess with dang bc crowd. oh well shoulda woulda coulda PS no offense to anyone, just that local bc rep blows donkeys
Well, as a donkey & on behalf of all donkeys, I must tell you we are offended
inj. pump timing 1011 do I have to time the injector pump on a duetz 1011 when replacing the timing belt? if so how is that done?
Welcome to the forum centan. :usa As long as the belt hasn't jumped time, you can replace it without going through timing procedure. Just have to be very careful when removing old belt and installing new one that the cam or the crankshaft does not turn. It's best to put some marks on the crank and cam pullies so you can tell if either has turned. You will need a torx plus bit to remove one of the belt cover screws, don't remember what size it is.
I bought the863 after someone replaced the timing belt[wrong] smokes and one bent pusnrod. I have new belt,tensioner.and timing pins but dont know how to time the inj pump
Injection pumps are timed with a camshaft lock pin, as the same cam drives pumps. So you do not have to do anything with individual pumps as long as you do not remove them, or if you do then DON'T mix up gaskets, as gaskets (of various thickness) are actually used for timing them.
I thought I'd post up in here as I'm building a Bobcat engine at the moment. I bought the timing pins and they are indeed 52 mm long from under the head to the tip. As far as using a bolt in there I think you could, but looks to me like you'd need to turn the end down to match these pins as the flat spot on the crank doesn't have a lot of extra room.
BF4M 1011 timing belt hi everyone,a guy called me on friday nite sayin he couldn't get fuel to the injectors on his 1011, he said it ran out of fuel........ ok, so i got down there today n found that the belt was broken, he said there was a blast of white smoke then it just stopped, He's been winding and winding for god knows how long trying to get fuel up to injectors!!!!!!!!! so was wondering if there would be any bent conrods or valves or would it be wise to set up timing put a new belt on and try starting it and check it for compression?????? i think there will be more damage but just wondered if anyone else has came across the same thing thanks:Banghead
Yup,,, you better order up a sack of pushrods along with the belt. If it doesn't have bent pushrods he's the luckest man in the world and better go buy a lottery ticket.
Stripped engine this morning and pulled out 8 S shaped push rods!!! Have been told there should be no other damage because of the way the pistons and cylinder head are signed, can afnyone else tell me different.........hopefully not thanks
Lol... your not any luckier than grandpa...... you should be good to go from my experience's.... sorry about the pushrods just the same.
Designed, that is meant to say not signed
No problem smeatdog,,, like OCR say's about my post's...."I read thru it"....... lol
Gentlemen (and Donkeys), I have a Bobcat 864 track machine. It is a burn victim. It has a Duetz diesel that is cooled with the circulating hydraulic oil. Although only 3,400 hours on the engine (per the markings on the oil filter) - it needs to be rebuilt due to the fire. If I am starting from square #1, would any of you switch the power plant from Duetz to Kubota? Or Izuzu? Or ??? Anything that could burn in the engine compartment - did. So, if I need to do some "creative" plumbing to run a different engine (per recommendations here) - I will. I had an old 741 Bobcat that had an air cooled 2 cylinder Duetz. That engine was great. Obviously we are talking about a completely different beast with the 1011. AND.............since I know nothing about it - any pearls of wisdom would be most appreciated.
all the duetz engine i've pulled apart,after a broken belt, ive never seen any bent valves or damaged pistons. the pencil thin pushrods take all the damage. i believe bobcat recomends a 3000hr service on the timing belt. i've seen them run much longer, and seen others break at 1000hrs :beatsme :drinkup
you'll spend more time and money trying to swap in a watercooled engine in place of the oil cooled duetz. you'll have to change intake and exhaust systems, cooling system, motor mounts, correct size flywheel, and engine electrical system for starters. if it was mine, i'd rig up a temporary fuel supply, power up the fuel shutoff solinoid, stick an oil pressure guage in it, and see if it will run. :drinkup
The spec is 3000 hr and from what I have seen, the penicl pusher who came up with the spec was pretty close. I start recommanding at 2500 and normally it isn't a hard sell. I've seen a few break early, but rarly go much pass. Never seen a vavle issue, the push rods always give. I don't know why guys want to do pull the engine to do the belt, it is a pretty easy three hours in the machine.
Some folks really dig the "change to something else" concept. Not me, too much work, hassle, and money. Folks have asked me "could you put X in this?" Reply...no. "Well joe six pack said it could be done". Reply...you didn't ask if it could be done, you asked if I could do it, the answer is no.
i'm with you willie59 :Banghead my answer to these kinda situations is, "if it's so easy, then why dont you do it?" :drinkup
yep, 3-4 hrs depending on how filthy the machine is. :drinkup
I have changed the belt on the side of the road for a guy who didn't want to haul it an hour one way to the shop.
Willie, You've always had good advice. I will follow you and rest of team's recommendation and stick with the Duetz.
Wishing you best of luck with your project machine tttahoe1.
The injector pumps(one per cylinder) are run off the camshaft therefore setting the cam timing is setting the injector pump timing as long as this was a running engine that you are doing a timing belt service on.
Good Evening folks, I’m working on a Deutz BF4M1011F and I lost the timing on the cam and crankshaft, I bought the pins to look the but the only one that has a hole is the Camshaft. How do I set the timing on the Crankshaft?
It's a plug on the opposite corner of the engine of the cam timing plug. Cam timing hole is on right rear of block, crank timing hole opposite on left front of block.