So many of y'all make posts about your equipment and your work. Alas, I'm just a lowly mechanic nowdays. :tong But it takes mechanics/fitters to keep things digging, pushing, rolling, lifting...you name it. Last week I had a one of my customers bring me his Bobcat T190 and he was in a bit of a pinch, seems he'd ripped out the rear loader arm pivot on the left side. Bobcat had told him a new loader arm would be around 5 G's. He's a small, self employed business and that's a chunk for him. He wanted to know if I could fix it. I said I think we can do it for a bit less than that. Hmmm, I think we have a problem also, he tweaked the loader arms a bit. Look at how much higher the arm on the right is. burn the paint off with a rosebud and get out the gouger.
there, that's better, knocked those damaged plates out of the way. I put the hammer I used in pic for OCR and AtlasRob. :lmao now to do something with that tweaked frame...off to the frame shop! oh yeah, that's better.
Just remember to use a rod that is compatible with the hardened steel that Bobcat uses .
now let's fit some fine new plates on here. there we go, all welded up.
Well done ATCOEQUIP,thats how I would do it.The customer saved some money and I bet the repair job is stronger than the factory loader.May as well do both sides while its handy.Good pictures.
spray some primer and some Bobcat white. Oh yeah, that looks better. Ready to re-install loader arms. got everything fitted in it proper place and she's ready to hit the dirt again.
Iron Horse, I had my welding supplier come in when we set up the new 600 amp Miller MIG welder to make sure he understood the type of wire we need for the welding process's that we do. And I'm confident, after seeing the way Bobcat fabricated and welded the arm pivot pin boss, that I've got more structural weld in that area than Bobcat originally did. I'm pretty picky about welds. 25c, it wasn't a bad job at all and the total bill came to around 2K. Customer is happy as a hardwood tree.
That is one good looking repair job. If I ever bend my backhoe I'm looking you up. I really like your " frame Machine".
I have to admit that "frame shop" was a lot of fun! Having a 200 series and 300 series excavator squash a T190 loader arm frame was a real hoot!
Well, got a phone call Thursday. You guessed it...it was Matt. "Hey, you remember my T190?"..."Yeah, what about it?"..."Oh, the side you repaired is fine...it broke the opposite side!" Grrrrrrrrr :Banghead :Banghead :Banghead Now I have to do this again! And yes, it tweaked the loader arms...again...the opposite way! Still have the Cat 320 to bend frame again, but EX300 is gone. But...we do have a Kobelco SK480 to work with. Oh yeah...more power! :tong I have no idea what these fellows are doing with this machine to do this. They are tree guys, maybe they are popping stumps out of the ground with it, I just don't know. When I did the left side a year ago, I did look this side over real good, didn't see any signs of stress or weld cracks. When he brought it in this time, I took a close look at the broken welds. It was obvious because of rusting that the top weld that attached arm to pin boss has failed for some time. So all the load was on the bottom weld and the side plates, and those plates just aren't thick enough to handle the tension load. The top and bottom welds have to carry the load. And when you look at these broken welds, it appear Bobcat only applies a single pass of mig weld. Now, this is the only T190 that I've personally seen do this. There are tons of those units out there, and I haven't seen evidence that this failure is necessarily common to these machines, it's probably more likely some operation method the operators are doing that is stressing the machine and breaking this pin boss attachment. With that said, I think it would be prudent for guys that own Bobcats in general and T190 in particular to pay close attention to this joint and frequently inspect it. When it breaks, it's a mess
Nice work ATCO :notworthy:drinkup I think this guy is taking a knive to a gun fight as they say. That is a lot of damage sadly. I have no clue how people wreck machines like this.
Well done there Atco didn't know you had attended the stock school of engineering
Nice work ATCO. From 20 years of running and owning Bobcat equipment I have found that you really have to check the welds on Bobcats. A few weak spots I have dealt with - the pin boss on the boom for the stick on the mini-ex's, Bobtach mounting plate where the pin boss connects to the mounting plate on the older skids and the pin boss on the boom for the tilt cylinder on the older single cylinder machines. Might need to drag the 334D up to Tenn. and have you fix my pin boss.
Thanks guys! Speedpup, it wasn't a really hard job, but on the other hand, wasn't really expecting to do it all over again in just about a year. :tong stock, lol, I attended the G. G. Willis school of engineering. Worked with some form of iron near all my life, spent several years fabricating and erecting structural iron, you learn a lot doing that. CM, um, did I say I hate working on Bobcats? Bah ha ha ha ha
G.G. Willis School Of Engineering A great school,and ATCO graduated sum-ma *** lau-de.Top of the class The bobcat repair looks great:thumbsup
LoL, 25c...dad was the Dean of his little school, he made sure I got it right or I got backside chewed promplty.
I bloody knew you were there.... and here's the one for your final year.....:tong:tong
:lmao:lmao:lmao:bouncegri
OMG! That's hillarious! Bah ha ha ha ha. :lmao
Before noticing the 2nd page(yeah, I know I've done that before:Banghead:beatsme) I googled G.G. Willis. The best result was "G.G. Willis Insurance Co. and Funeral Home", New Orleans La. So did that experience come from fixing wrecks to save on claims or the mortuary dept.? seriously nice work
LoL, no, he was my father. Taught me and brothers so much that we know today. Mainly, do it right...or you got :cussing
I cannot imagine what they would want in NY to do that repair Walked into the boat yard yesterday and labor rate was 125 per hour. ointhead
Dang Speedpup did ya remind them that ya just an owner of a little boat...not a cruise ship! :Banghead :tong
I am thinking someone played with the relief on that bobcat to tear it up like that. That and operator abuse can do a lot of damage. Great looking repair/engineering.
Always knew boats were holes in water that swallowed money......
..
Hi bill, I did check the relief setting when the first failure occured. Haven't checked it yet since it came back for failure on opposite side. I really don't know what they're doing to have this happen. Only know when it breaks, it breaks ugly. :yup
Man, I'm really glad I clicked on this. As an engineering student, let me say outright that this is far more impressive than the stuff I'm likely to end up doing as an engineer... hopefully we get the chance to meet sometime. I'm nearly amazed that you were able to make it look so easy! I wish I had the experience to look at a weldment and know where its weak spots were, let know devise a strategy for how to fix it.
Well thanks Tigerotor77W. In all honesty though, when you've pretty much worked with steel in some form or craft all your life, experience teaches you a great deal about it. Likewise, you learn how to work with it. Generally, when a failure of steel occurs, it typically leaves clues as to what happened and why. But wood? That's a different animal. Ain't really worth a hoot with it. I can build with wood, but prefer to work with steel.
Yea there Atco I concur with that;too dam hard to get a rod to weld timber....
This is an interesting point. Maybe I'll try to seek out a steel guy after hours or over the weekends and try to learn. More to add to the to-do list...
Aye, it tis it tis. And ya can't heat it and bend it. And if ya take a torch to it...all you accomplish is set the darn stuff on fire! Can't do nothin with it I tell ya. :tong
Hi Tigerotor, I actually took a few pics of the failed metal to show you a few clues of what happened, but for some reason, me Gmail account didn't recieve the email I sent. Oh well, will try again tomorrow.
Yep, pretty much posted pics just like this a year ago, just figured I'd post opposite side to remind everybody to frequently inspect this pin connection at the rear of loader arms. When they break...it's ugly. I priced a new loader arm assy a year ago and it was around $5,000, don't know what they are today. Yep, they're bent.
A mon afftarr ma ooun hart............
I see the Kobelco "straighter" in the background
Aye, guud mon yoorself! LoL, yep, but that was the little'n. SK200. The big'n, SK480, is stage left of pic, awaiting it's opportunity to squash little loader arms. :tong
I'd slap a freshman if he came out with a statement like that especially in front of a customer or in public.. They will be used to apply a gently metered force to realign the misaligned lifting structure from the awd skid steer.....to with in an appreciable tolerance to assure realignment of all the pivot points.this structure will then be checked for additional work, stress fractures etc prior to you; the customer making a lubain of it again.. ................might need to review them certificates and Diplomas............................................ maybe it time for a refresher ....
LoL...Stock, once again, your skills as a wordsmith is a pleasure to read. :notworthy Tigerotor, I took a few pics (actually, quite a few) of the area of failure, I'll try to post the ones that give the best views of how the failure progressed. This first pic shows the way to pin boss would have been oriented. The side plates have been cut away and what remains is the top and bottom web members. Now, keep in mind, the side plates are an important part of the assembly, but they can't hold the pulling load that is on the assembly because they're only 3/16" thick steel. The critical part that bears the pulling load between pin boss and loader arms is the welds that attach the pin boss to the top and bottom web members, they are 2" wide / 1/2" thick steel. The top web member weld is where the original crack developed. Once the weld cracked entirely, now the pulling load was transferred to the side plates as they encircle the pin boss. The right plate cracked next, then all that was left holding was the left plate. There's no way the left plate could hold the load by itself, so it would have rapidly pulled apart. Once the entire top frame members failed, it would have simply peeled away from the top breaking the bottom web member weld and tearing the bottom circle of the side plates. Pretty much done then. This pic shows what it would have done once the top attachment failed. It pulled away and bent the bottom web member downward. Then the pin boss would have rolled backwards and tore off the lower circle of the side plates. If you look closely at the side plate that is still attached to the pin boss, down at the bottom of pin boss, you can see the steel of the side plate is bent downward from the pin boss rolling counterclockwise then tearing the steel of the side plate. This is the obvious clue that the top failed first and left the bottom to hold the load. This is the top weld. Notice the rust on the weld that attached the pin boss to the top web member. Rust indicates that a fracture has been there for a period of time. Notice also, there is no rust where the side plate broke on the left, but there is rust on the right side plate. This indicates the weld was cracked, and that it extended to the right side plate. But notice at the very bottom of the right plate, there is a (seemingly) tiny portion of the right side plate that is rust free. This means the left plate and that tiny piece of right plate was all that was holding the pulling load. Once that little piece of right plate let go, the left plate wouldn't have lasted long, and it all came unwound. Another thing that is noteworthy of the top weld is the right side of the weld, it was only about a 1/4" thick. This in an area of attachment to a 1/2" thick plate. It appears in production, Bobcat only gives this joint a single pass of weld. And this one didn't even cover the full 1/2" of the web member. Here's looking at the top web member. Sure didn't get a full weld in there did they.
Now here's an interesting site, the bottom web member weld. Once the top let go, this wouldn't have held long, and understanably so. Look closely at the weld on the web member, it's a full 1/2" of weld. But look at it's matching location on the pin boss. You can see fractured weld along the bottom, extending upward about a 1/4". Above that, up to that black burn stain line is no evidence of fracture, meaning, the weld didn't penetrate and bond with the pin boss in that area. There was only about 1/4" of confident weld on the lower web member attachment to pin boss. Here's how the pin boss would have be oriented on the lower weld. You can actually see the gap between the weld on the web member and the pin boss where the weld didn't pentrate the pin boss and bond with it. It's easy to see the events that led to the destruction of this side. Problem is, the welds would have looked fine from the outside, but outside inspecting wouldn't have revealed the problems that were underneath the welds. The only thing that could have yeilded a different outcome would be if the owner had frequently inspected it and noticed the initial crack and addressed it promptly. But here's the part that concerns me, and yes, I will cover this with the owner. This is the side I repaired a year ago. When the opposite side busted, it put a great deal of stress on this side. Notice the little lines in the paint, and the paint splotch areas. This is paint spalling from the metal being distorted. Doesn't necessarily mean this area in now comprimised, but it does mean the structural integrety has been somewhat weakened. The top and bottom welds look ok with no signs of cracks, but given the obvious stress that has happened on this side, I did grind away some of the top and bottom welds and applied more welds. We'll see how it goes. Hey Stock...do I get my diplomas reinstated now?
That was a damn fine explanation there Mr. Atco! The lack of penetration on the lower weld is also a fine example of what can happen when somebody who isn't overly experienced is running a wire feeder on a structural weld. Personally, I prefer to use a stick to do my root pass simply to get in a bit deeper.
Hep we have referred it to the board but as it's timber and hasn't done a feckin thing is the last year I would not hold my breath....
:lmao :cussing :falldownlaugh If I ask pretty please... wood that speed up the process?
Atco,Looks to me like you need to sneak up on these guys and take a vid of how they are using it,thats not normal. Also ,great job on the repair. Most shops here would have ordered the assm. and never looked back .
I agree Tiny, not the norm to see arms break like this on Bobcats, there are tons of them out there. As for the repair, this fellow is a small business tree service, budget is tight for guys like him, he's just trying to earn a living like most. New arms would be a stretch for him, and I can repair it for about half what new arms are and get him working again. Although, and I will discuss this with him, he has to consider these arms are no longer as structurally sound as new arms would be, they can't possibly be as much as they have been twisted about. He must consider this in continuing operating this machine and treat it with care. It ain't a 992 Cat. :yup
Ive never ran a bobcat brand skid loader but on my JD 8875 they recommend that heavy grubbing be done with the loader all the way down so it's resting on the frame of the skid loader at the front and use the bucket to twist out stumps rocks etc.I noticed on pic#3 on post #6 it looks like the bobcat loader also rests on the frame when it's it the down position.That may be your customers trouble, heavy grubbing with the loader up.Just a thought.
Awesome explanation, ATCO! Makes sense to me. Here's a question: are welds also stronger in compression? I think I know how it happened (armchair engineering, of course).
Well, to be honest, never thought much about the compressive strength of welds. I suppose there may be a test for the compressive strength of welds, but I think, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but most weld processes are tested/rated by their tensile strength, what it would take to pull it apart. Interesting question Tigerotor.
I was going to post pics about finishing up the repairs on the right side of loader arms when forum went down, so here's a couple more. One thing I failed to mention in the repairs on the left side was how to determine the exact location of the pin boss when fitting new plates. I figured a complex system of geometric measuring would be difficult at best and easily lead to error in location. To make the task easy, simple, and relatively accurate, I placed the pins removed from the lift arm components in the pin boss's on the opposite side, the side not broken. Fit a sturdy piece of steel on the end of the pins and tack weld the pins to the steel angle. Then you simply remove the "pin template" and transfer it to the side being repaired. Slip the two pins in the lower pin boss's on that side, then fit the pin boss to be located and welded. Here's the pin template holding pin boss in it's proper location with no side plates, then a pic with the side plates clamped in place. But even using this method isn't dead on precise, so I fitted the loader arms on the machine, loosen clamps and make slight adjustments in the fitting of the plates so that pivot pins went in properly on both sides. It would be a bad day if one was to weld up the side plates and pin boss, then try to fit it to the machine, only to find the pin boss is off by 3/16" and not be able to fit the pin that attaches it to the machine. Very bad day indeed.
Got it all welded, cleaned it up, and applied some primer and Bobcat white paint. And I'm confident there is way more weld here than what it origianlly had. Ok Matt, ready for you to, err, hopefully not break something else. :tong
You did a good job!
So lets have there of the story.......you know you want to... excellent work though...............................
Ahh, as in "don't ask me how I know". :tong Well, my friend, in this case, no, it was experience in working/fitting iron that told me "you better not just trust the jig...ya better make sure it fits before you weld..." Sure enough, on left side repair as well as right side, had to make very slight adjustments to the side plates holding the position of the pin boss so that the pivot pin would drive home at attachment to rear arm of the machine. Now I'll grant you this; maybe it's my past errors of fitting/welding during the apprenticeship days of my youth that prompted the voice in my head to say "ya better check it". Yes, experience gained from age can be a wonderful thing. Alas, age bears it's price on the eyes though...it's a real struggle to see good enough to weld nowdays. Just can't see the bead as well as I used to in my youth. :Banghead
I love this thread, it's great to see someone who really knows what they're doing at work. So, with all the work you have put into it, is it still a Bobcat, or is it now a BobcATCO?
:lmao :duh :cussing :falldownlaugh LoL...naw, it's a Bobcat, that's all it will ever be. :tong
If Atco had made it then it would never have broken in the first place...
would you want to do another one????? i need both sides done.... email me your info so i can call you and get some time frame for repair and cost.
[email protected]
Welcome to the forum amgsmith. :usa Our business has evolved into doing a considerable amount of equipment rentals, and that rental fleet keeps me covered up in work to the point that it's difficult for me to fit current customer machines in for repairs, there's just no way I can take on any more work. Did your loader arms fail in the same location, at the rear loader arm pin bosses? If so, any good welding/fabrication shop in your area should be able to perform the repairs. It's not a terribly difficult job, just a bit time consuming.
ya same left side and the right side has cracks so ready to break as well....How much should i expect to pay for this type of work????? or do you know of any place i could just get a set of used arms? mine are so warped i also broke last year the front cross member so the arms are out of a line.
i am a tree guy and i feel we tree guys tear these machines up fast because of carrying to long of material so the twisting back and forth really shortens the life.
I'm seeing a pattern here, the one I repaired was a tree guy. There may be someone out there that would have a used loader arm assy, I'm just not aware of one. And just to take a guess, I would say you're probably looking between 5 and 8 thousand dollars for a new assy from Bobcat, which is why we decided to repair this machine. After all, it's just steel, nothing a good fabricator can't work with. If you can't find a fab shop in your area that won't take the job, I may have a local shop that might take on the task. I would have to show them some pics of your loader arms and the repairs needed and let them decide. I don't have in my head how much money it took to do this repair, but I could look when I get back to work tomorrow.
Bobcat 873 I just bought this Bobcat 873, its my first Bobcat. I think I was told it was a 1999 model, it was used at a fertilizer plant, so it had a bunch of rust. I sandblasted, primed and painted, it really made a difference in the looks. question The belt that turns the fan, for the hydraulic cooler is squealing and looks bad, I want to replace it, but I noticed a tension spring, next to the tensioner pulley. Do I mess with that, or just relieve the pressure on the tensioner and slip the belt on and off. what are the knobs on the steering levers for? I will try to post the before and after pictures, OK I cant figure it out for now
The tensioner on the cooling fan belt is weak spring tension, nothing difficult to work with, but you can't slip the belt off unless you loosen the pulley bolt/nut a bit and shift that belt retainer bracket open to make a gap to remove belt. One thing that is common on that tensioner though is over time the bushing for the tensioner pivot gets worn making the pulley get out of alignment. If it gets too bad worn, the pivot bolt will wear through the bushing and wear the tensioner arm. You might want to give a close look at the tensioner and see if it needs attention. The knobs on the steering levers have switches to operate various auxilliary functions. If you have the auxilliary tubes running down the left loader arms, that's typically operated by the left/right thumb switch on the right drive lever.
Thanks for the info, Ill give it a try
well atco today ours broke dealer wants 10 grand to repair i sure hope i have some like finding someone that can do what you can thats an awesome repair job guys like you are very hard to come by these days.
Looks like a good job. Do you have any information on things to look for on a t 190, I am in the market for one.
Are these bobcats good for loading trucks. www.pksasphaltpavingatlanta.com
the best of any 190s are high lift / vertical lift machines vs radius they lift higher and lift straight up t300 lifts even higher and lifts alot more like double the weight if your liading alot of trucks id reccomend this styke of loader arm system
I hate to hear that for ya CBS. Broke in the same manner? Got any pics of the carnage?
same yep heres a pic i hope it works
Well I'll be damned. Yep...seen that before. If you have any decent welding/fab shops in your area they should be able to do the repairs. Straightening the now bent frame is the trick, I happen to have some equipment hanging around that can squash a Bobcat boom with little effort. Not sure, but I may be able to provide you with template for your fab shop to cut new wing plates.
thanks im hoping i printed off your pictures im gonna go to the shop who does all our welding and see what he says first if not ill start searching to see if i can find someone to do it
Best of luck bro. The fab shop that I used to cut out the wing plates likely has the pattern on file, let me know if you need it and I'll give them a call. And if you do manage to get it repaired, be sure and re-do the same pin boss welds on opposite side. The one I worked on had poor welds from Bobcat on both sides.
Thanks alot i greatly appreciate it.
I just had a set of 873 Bobcat booms delivered to me with the end bushing torn off in much the same way as the one in this thread. It's set up a little differently, and I see an opportunity to increase the strength with minimal trouble. I'll be starting in on it in a couple days, and I'll post pics of it all. It doesn't look like a bad job at all. Marv
--a friend of mine has a bobcat with the same pin boss attachments in the boom breaking in spartqanburg s.c. i want to contact willie 59 in knoxville tennessee to see if other people have had the problem, and possible help to fix this bobcat. anyone else have this problem??, solutions to fix?? contacted ingersol-rand-defect? 864-921-0610
did you ever get a hold of willie 59 to do the repairs or a quote? i have a friend with a broken t-190 just lie the one he fixed
amgsmith did you find a solution to your t 190 boom arms breaking? replace, repair, a salvage yard?
Is there anyone in Oklahoma that can square up the lift arms on a T190?
Looks like asking for trouble!!!
That particular model was bad about loader arms cracks, even to the point they snap