This is the M-Series replacement for the T190. T180 is being replaced with the T-580. Release date is still about a year from now. It's running around the Bobcat proving grounds right now. That's all I've heard.
It's about time they replaced the T190, I hope they scrapped the old design and came up with something from scratch. The T190 was the biggest pig of a Bobcat I have ever owned.:Banghead
Just out of curiosity ??? ... what do you mean by "biggest pig of a machine" ??? ........... up here I always heard that the T-190 was good but the radius lift 180 was a POS .... just wondering cause a buddy of mine was looking at those units ........
Kraft, I bought a new T190 in '02, first track machine I ever owned. Three things I absolutely hated about it - very underpowered, very loud and it had this funky quirk where the hydraulics would stall - for lack of a better word, the engine wouldn't bog - sometimes when lifting a load. It's hard to explain it. The Bobcat dealer could never find the problem. It was a cab w/ A/C and it was loud. Constant whining from the hyd's. That machine almost turned me away from rubber track loaders - until I demo'd a T250.
I love my T190, great machine.
Our T190's are good machines. Agree with the loud factor though completely. They do have one major in my opinion and that is the lack of under body access points to remove mud and debris everything just stays in there until you tip it all the way back and spray everything out the rear across the motor. But all in all an average machine with a decent lift ability. Our Cats though are by far superior. 299C Ya!
I guess its all somewhat subjective. I have never owned a T-190 but I demoed three of them over the years from early to mid 2000 model year machines all new dealer machines. My opinion of it is the sooner they put a knife through the heart of that machine the better off everyone will be. It is loud the hyd noise was way excessive, the machine continually goes over relief simply by looking at pile of dirt, way underpowered, excessive feedback in the controls (AHC). Bobcat has sold a lot of them but in my world it was pathetic. Not looking for a fight over it, just giving my view of the machine. I am not a BC hater, just a T-190 hater.
I might have come across a little harsh and I apologize for that. Just speaking of my experiences with that particular machine. I'm a Bobcat guy and I didn't like that machine.
i have no confidence the 590 will meet my standard for skid steers these days. im sure it will be just another m series...
This is all very surprising to me, as the T190 is a very popular machine in my area. While I completely understand the fact that everyone has their own opinions, it is hard to imagine the lack of love for the T190 on here when I see so many of them in my territory. Who'd-a-thunk it?
i think the t190 was designed to be just a regular skid steer that can go places a skid steer cant. i dont think when they were designing it they looked much at dozing power and bucket breakout and such. u gotta remember the t190 (773 basically) was designed back when in cab noise was not really a factor; every machine was loud back then. im not familiar with machines where just using the hydraulics for boom and bucket will bog the engine. obviously a 299c would be comparing apples and oranges. if you wanna talk about noise levels, any of the new ones are unacceptable with the exception on jcb of course
No that was not the issue with the T190 I had. At the time I also had an 863 with cab A/C and it was much quieter. The hyd system whine was darn near unbearable. It probably did have something to do with Bobcat "making fit" an existing wheel machine into a track machine. Through history there have always been machines that weren't quite up to snuff and IMO the early '00 T190's fit that group. I haven't run a newer model so no opinion on those. Like KSSS said, the hyd relief would would engage with a bucket of dirt ( better description than I gave ). It wouldn't bog the engine, it just wouldn't lift the arms.:beatsme
We've had several T190's, and their drive system is far more noisy than a 773G wheel machine. And it seems to me that the T190 is a rough ride, near unbearable when they get wear on inside of rubber tracks at contact point with bottom rollers. We had one with terribly worn tracks, machine shook so much we nicknamed it "the vibratory loader".
I look at my T190 like I look at an old willies Jeep, it's not the most comfortable little thing, it's pretty noisy and I guess you could call it unrefined but it helps me win battles on every jobsite it goes. It's a little warrior, that's why there's practically a million of 'em out there. Mine's at 6400 hours and counting. The T590 has some big shoes to fill.
2 cents from a chicken farmer Well I thought I would add my 2 cent for what it is worth. I absolutely love my 06 T-190 w/ 1720 hrs, only BC I ever owned, even though I had and have a few issues with it (thats what brought me to this site). My ol man and grandfather both have 1840's that I have been running since I was 12-13 and it will out perform them 5 times over. I use mine to clean out my chicken houses. I bought the T-190 b/c it was the largest cab-a/c tracked BC that would still fit under the equipment lines without destroying everything. Still have to be careful though, I have broken 1 feed pan, 2 fogger lines, and 3-4 ceiling straps over the past yr and a half loading inside with my 96" quick dump bucket (dont even think about it unless you are extremely confident or really stupid). And yes I know its not rated for it, and yes it is absolutely all the lil 56 hp wants. I really bought the ginormous bucket to push the material from the far end to the front door (500') which it does fairly well. When I bought it in early '11 with 14??hrs at an auction, all the filters were engraved that they were changed in '08 @ 13?? hrs, and thought I really got a pretty good buy on it. Got it home and realized it had a remaned engine (tag was on pump side of engine), which kinda concerned me a lil. All seemed fine until I used it long enough to get the operating temp up then the oil press light came on. Wholly f-in **** what kind of POS have i bought! Long story short, installed a gauge, bout 22 psi @ idle, like 40 psi @ speed, new oil sending unit, all was good to go! Moral of the story is check the actual oil press before letting some moron mechanic convince you to spend $???k on a reman only to have same prob then let it set for 3 yrs and finally decide to auction it! First time I ever lucked out on something like that, did I mention EVER! Found this site to adjust creep. After reading Willies excellent thread (many thx my good sir), it looks like RH arm is loose on pump shaft. Im bout to find out for sure after i type this. And the LH drive started leaking hyd oil behind the sprocket a couple months ago and is steadily getting worse, not horrible but a bucket of oil is $50! Leaks bout a gal or so every 2-3 hrs. So that will be my 2nd post. How to change the drive mtr seal??? And today I noticed the RH rear idler is starting to wear grooves on the perimeter from the track??? All other idlers look good, RH & LH. Is the track a little too tight? Prob loosen it up a bit in a min just to try it. Is it loud? Yes, windows rattle and some hyd wine, dont really bother me with headphones on. Does it ride rough? On hard ground, concrete, bare CH floor, yes it will vibrate your eyeballs at 1/2-3/4 speeds! Tends to smooth out some at full speed. Noise levels triple. I try to just take it easy, but I wish it was a spring ride. (anyone know if it can it be retrofitted?) On soft ground like sand, mud, and on top of litter it is smooth as glass and nowhere near as loud. Even on fields / grass it is not unbearable. I suppose it is a lil under powered, lifts a full 60" dirt bucket with no prob at all. Pushes the 96" QD through 6-8" dry in-house chicken poo with lil issues, but it does work the pizz out of it. Does ok loading dry material (not for novices, especially inside!) x6 heaping buckets fills spreader truck in no time flat. Not real wise to use the 96" to load old wet piles that have been sitting in the weather for a couple months. Work it just right and it might lift it, but tipsy doesn't describe it. Can you say "faceplant", I haven't yet but it has tipped over into the truck bed a couple times, definitely not for faint of heart. Just too much for it, I normally use the dirt bucket on the wet stuff. Windrows litter with a Preifert 7' blade just about as fast as you wanna run. I even use the blade on my loading pad / driveways, but it will not cut hard earth at all, but hey its not a D5 cat. All in all, love it! BC's are the only machines I know of with rounded cab edges so it doesn't hang stuff in the chicken house. Actually there is not really any protrusions on the machine (huge issue in a CH). I have yet to find another machine out there that would work any better for what I use my T-190 for.
The T190 was the first ground up track machine bobcat designed. 864/T200 are modified 863. I will admit T190s are getting long in the tooth, but are still tough strong machines. I would have to say there are more T190 then any other bobcat track machines. A T190 is actually underrated, they will lift closer to 2400 lbs, but where rated at 1900 to not show up T200 that where still in production at the time. Yeah they are loud, espesically when the tracks get wear. For those saying they are under powered, you simply need a bigger machine, T190 are 66 hp MID frame machines. I would expect T590 to be simply smaller versions of a T650.
If the t590 performs as well as my t190 with out the problems and rough ride I will be happy to buy one and the fact that I can only run bobcat controls has me stuck on bobcats
I believe that the T-190 started out life at 56 hp. Only the more recent machines have the power upgrade. The T-190 will lift no issues there. Maybe its our alt. but I found them miserably underpowered.
Your post made me wonder so I had to look it up quick, yes the earlier ones where 56hp. The engine has changed I think three times, mostly to meet different tier levels. I'm pretty sure all K series are 66 hp.
I respectfully disagree. A machine should be able to handle the bucket that is rated for it. The T190 I had would struggle with it's bucket, from cutting to pushing to loading. When I bought that machine new in '03, I had the Bobcat salesman and mechanics out to check the machine only to be told their was nothing wrong. Hindsight being 20/20, I should have sent it back. When I traded the T190 for my current S250 in '07, the dealer wasn't excited about getting another used one since they already had so many.:cool2 Mine was very underpowered at 500 FT, I don't think it's your alt.
I'm not saleman so I'm not trying to "sell" the T190. Around me, it is one of the all time most popular machines. Personally I don't know if I have ever heard people complain about their power. From my experince, a T190 will put a 74hp T200 to shame. No one machine will make everybody happy.
I can't comment on that because I have never ran a T200, however a T250 is twice the machine a T190 is.:cool2 I agree.
Willie 59 sir i do have a bobcat 753 F series no 515819161... the problem is as soon as the machine is started ie ignition switch is on bucket cylinder moves down & tries to lift the bobcat off the ground which is quite unsafe ..wat could be the reason The control valve has been dismantled ..there are relief valves , check valve etc ..solenoids 3 in nos are dere though it is pedal operated wat is the function of solenoids ...wat is to be checked please please help.............
My '06 is a 56hp kubota and as stated earlier regularly gets pushed to its max. A newer 66hp would be nice and lil easier on the machine. Anyone know specifics on the differences? Curious if it was whole engine, turbo, etc. Can the pump be tweeked for more power, I dont know enough to try. My luck is bad enough already.
I pretty sure the power gain came when the engines where upgraded for tier 3 emissions, totally different engine.
around our area, a lot of guys bought the t190 because of the kubota engine, and the cost difference between the 190 and a larger machine. the early 864/t200 did have some issues with head gaskets. overall the t190 has had far fewer problems in the pumps/ drive motors than the larger frame machines did. customers that needed a smaller tracked machine, for limited access were happy with them, the ones that wanted a cheaper alternative to a large frame machine weren't. :drinkup
That's why I bought that T190, I wanted a smaller tracked machine for limited access. At the time I also had an 863 and a 420D BHL so I had plenty of grunt, I needed a machine that would climb slopes in tight quarters in a town home project. I was not happy with that machine, as I have posted above.:cool2
early 2000 model t190's were only 46 hp...they left alot to be desired(I'm being nice with that comment). Then they went to 56hp, and around '09 went to 66hp with small improvements in other areas throughout those yrs. I've ran all major brands that offer that class size ctl/mtl....The newer BC T190 is a better all around machine to the others imo. With that said, I'm very anxious to see/operate the new mid frame M series machines.