Was wondering if there is a way to calculate bolt torque in mild steel plate? I'm using grade 5 1in.-8 unc bolts. I was thinking somewhere in between grade 2 and grade 5 nuts. Also wondering how medium strength Loctite will work on 1in. bolts when it specifies it's only recommended up to 3/4in. fasteners? I don't want to use high strength that requires heat to remove.
A lot of repair manuals have a torque rating chart somewhere in the front. If that's what you're looking for? I'd use either locktite, I'm not afraid of heating a nut up a few hundred degrees.
I’ve never had trouble removing fasteners that have red loc-tite on them. Maybe I’m just extremely strong.
Hopefully they won't be coming off for a long time. Loctite has a blue tape that apparently is good for fasteners up to 2 inch. Would just be nice to buy 1 larger bottle of Loctite to use on all the bolts instead of a couple different ones. 263 is nice because it can tolerate some oil. I'll look in some manuals and see if it shows what is recommended for torque on 1" bolts.
They now have an orange high strength loctite that isn't so aggressive. If red loctite is easy to remove then the threads had oil and or it was not prepped right, or very little was used. It is a huge no no on small diameter fasteners. You will snap the bolt or stud before you release the loctite, with no heat. What ever Nissan uses on there cars during assembly is very close to some sort of red or orange loctite, just nasty tight stuff, but once free easy to turn. 150 ftlb or more loosening torque and that is an 8mm bolt diameter.
640 ft lbs dry , 480 oiled for grade 5. Grade 2 is exactly half of those.
As long as you have 1 diameter of thread length, mild steel will hold the recommended torque for a grade 5 fastener. The nut (or tapped hole) can be the next lower grade than the male threaded portion. The reason is the shear area of the female threads is much larger as it is on the outer diameter.
Those on here have already spoken more knowledgeable words, but my recommendation was going to be, try out the standard grade 5 torque, and if it pulls any threads or feels like it might, install heli-coils. I would not want to leave it at only grade 2 torque.
I prefer Blue Loctite on anything I want to get apart later.
I have had good results with blue Loctite that is a paste and it is in a small tube.
The place doing the holes has a sister company with a guy who is an expert on fasteners and torque. The plates are 3/4" and the bolts are 1" which is why I thought a little less than grade 5 torque. A 1" nut is less than 1" high and with the chamfered threads isn't a lot more than 3/4" of actual holding threads so will see what he recommends. A little lower torque is also why I was thinking if Loctite. Most blue Loctite, except the tape, recommends up to 3/4" bolts. I don't know how it would work on 1" bolts? I would think it would be better than nothing.
On materials that are less strength then the hardware we try and shoot for 1x the diameter of the bolts for thickness usually if they need to be torqued into a threaded hole and at least 75% depth of thread or more. I use the orange loctite all the time too, probably more then blue now, especially on larger stuff.
I'll look into the orange Loctite but still curious if blue would suffice on 1 inch bolts just for a safety factor.
Blue would probably be fine. What's the application, not too many things with 1" bolts are too delicate that you can't just use red or black loctite and hit em with at least a MAPP torch later if it has to come apart.
I'm making some wheel adapters to mount telehandler wheels on the hubs of a Champion grader. The holes on the wheels are 26mm which is slightly larger than 1 inch. 1 inch bolts are readily available and I suspect less expensive than metric bolts. Being it's for wheels is why I was thinking of using Loctite. I'm mounting the wheels with bolts rather than using skirt nuts or flange nuts like they would normally use and need them to stay tight.
I don't believe I've ever seen a wheel bolt or stud with coarse threads. What is the distance between the head of the bolt and the first thread of the nut? When this distance is less than the diameter of the bolt, maintaining torque on a live joint becomes near impossible. When the distance is 1-2 diameters maintaining torque is difficult. Locktite will not help this situation. Spacers under the head of the bolt to increase the length of the bolt will help if room allows. Are you using some type of taper seat to keep the wheel from turning on the pilot?
I am of same thoughts here, going to need some form of chamfer to the wheel or will either work loose or work and ruin the wheels.
This is very helpful info. I'm trying to do this as economically as possible. The 15 outer rim clamp studs are coarse thread. I wanted to use coarse thread for the wheel bolts because it's more common and less than half the cost of fine thread. Even at grade 2 torque a 1" bolt has 20,000lbs. clamping force. Grade 5 has 50,000lbs. plus clamping force. I thought with 10 bolts there would be more than enough clamping force. I'm not an engineer so don't know how to figure out how much clamping force is required. If clamping force alone is not enough, I seem to recall seeing wheels that had a couple of locating pins to hold them in the exact position. I have no problem drilling 2-4 smaller holes in the wheels for locating pins. Another option is to have the adapters cut so the middle hole is smaller than the hole in the wheel and putting some good tack welds on the wheels. It's far enough away from the tires they wouldn't feel any heat at all. Tack welds would be easy to grind out if required. Looking at my GMC Topkick, the wheels fit over tabs on the center hub and use flange nuts to hold them on. I don't know if the locating tabs are tapered slightly so they grip the wheel when all the nuts are tightened? Looking at other trucks I've seen 4 to 6 locating tabs on the inner hub. I thought they were just to align the wheels but maybe they all have a slight taper? The hubs on the grader are cast steel so putting a few tack welds on them is not completely out of the question. They'd just need a little preheat since they are about 1 1/2" thick. No tires would be anywhere nearby. Even high strength red Loctite could loosen on 10 1 inch bolts holding a wheel on? I have seen some coarse thread studs for wheels but they are not as common as fine thread. Open to suggestions on the best/most economical way of mounting the wheels to the existing hubs.
Old style Dayton hubs used coarse threads 3/4”.
Cat graders use hub pilot wheels with 10 7/8 coarse thread bolt with flat hardened washers Why go though all this instead of swapping the wheels ?
It would cost almost as much to swap the wheels and 1 existing rim has some damage. Good to know Cat uses coarse thread bolts and hardened washers. That's why I was planning on doing. It looks like maybe I should go with red Loctite so everything stays tight. Loctite is supposed to be the best for stopping loosening due to vibration and dynamic loading. Now I'm wondering if hub piloted wheels have a taper the bolts pull the wheel onto?
no taper at all a tight fitting center is what those kind of wheels use if the center doesnt fit tight it will work loose
Eh for my own machine I'd probably try it, use some good hard flats like L9 stuff and red loctite and see what happens after a few hours run.
You haven't shown us any pictures of your set-up or intentions. A VERY big, important fact is the radius of your bolts. If your bolts are at the outside of the hub, like Daytons, the forces on the bolts will be far less than if the bolts are on a 10 inch bolt circle. I would do an initial run without locktite, and verify torque at different intervals. Once you use the locktite you can't check torque. For a dynamic load like a wheel, I think of things like fretting between the mating surfaces. With your short clamp length, very little fretting will allow the parts to move sufficiently all your bolt stretch relaxes. Once you verify your bolt torque will hold in active service you can remove the bolts and apply locktite. Remember if applying locktite to a blind hole, the locktite must be applied to the hole, not the bolt. Otherwise, the locktite will air lock and the best you can hope for is about 1 thread of locktite.
The 10 holes for the wheels are on a 13.19" bolt circle. I was going to use 5 or 6 round bar pins as the middle pilots to center the wheels or I could have a ring machined as the pilot. I'm guessing I only want 2 or 3 thousandths clearance as some further reading said the pilots don't support the wheel, just center it. I also read somewhere that wheels can have a max. run out of .020" and I want to be .004" or less. I've seen 4 to 6 pilot pins on other wheels and I've also seen a raised ring to fit the inside hole of the wheel. I have the same set up as below. I'm hoping to replace the studs with bolts on the outside but studs could still work if they're too hard to remove. I'll use Loctite on the outer bolts as a safety precaution because I won't be able to get to them once the wheels are on. The 15 outer studs/bolts are 5/8" coarse thread. I could put a couple stops on the adapters to go against the hubs at the opening for the valve stem to stop the adapters from turning on the hub but don't think they'd turn though if properly torqued. 15 5/8" bolts torqued to grade 5 spec. should have more than enough holding torque. They are on a 20.5" bolt circle. I like the idea of using the wheel bolts without Loctite and checking torque before applying the Loctite. It would be easy to apply Loctite after confirming the bolts stay tight. As I said before, worst case scenario is I put a couple good tack welds on the wheels and/or adapters. I really don't think I'd need to tack the wheels on though if the bolts were properly torqued and Loctited. brake2.jpg (1200×803) (vannattabros.com)
I will be able to use fine thread bolts after all. The shop cutting the adapters must buy a lot of bolts because they called for a price on fine thread 1" bolts and they are available in grade 8 for $1.89/each. I should be able to get a better price on all the fasteners I'll need, he said to say it's for a project his shop is doing. Gotta like that, I was quoted $2/ea. for coarse thread grade 5 bolts. He also thought 10 properly tightened 1" bolts are going to have an awful lot of shear force and the wheels will stay put. I'm going to use 6 pilot pins to center the wheels. I should be able to adjust them so they only have a few thou. clearance for the middle hole on the wheel. The adapters will be cut out of plate that meets a 50W standard which is a little stronger than A36/44W and will result in stronger threads. Should be able to get close to grade 5 torque with the fine thread bolts.