Hey guys. I have recently looked at some 20-25 ton excavators on machinery trader most are in shanghai. You can get a cat 320 with 4000 hours for 25k or a hitachi ex200 for 15k. The reason there so cheap is because china had huge economic growth and it has recently slowed down from what I've read. Of course than you have to ship it to the U.S. So that's my question how much would it cost to ship a 20 ton excavator from china to the U.S. Any ideas. If the shipping cost aren't to bad you could save a ton of money, otherwise maybe it wouldn't be worth it. For a young guy like me who plans on starting a business it would be good to save wherever you can lol.
DD where do I start? First of all do you due diligence on the machine up front. Some of these machines may or may not actually be for sale, might be for sale but the person posting isn't the one who owns it or any other possibility.:cool2 I've never imported equipment from another country but I have been to China twice and understand a little of the business culture. Personally I wouldn't attempt it but if you did, I would suggest hiring an import/export firm to help get through the maze of buying it there and getting it here and that would also involve a trip to inspect the machine in person. China is a different business culture on a lot of different levels.
x2 on what CM said, also, make sure its even a Cat, and not a look alike painted right, I've seen a few of those on machinerytrader.
My father is an "economist" and has been to china so he knows quite a bit, I would inspect the machine before buying it that's obviously a must
There is a difference between something being low cost and saving money it takes time and a lot of money for that to sink in
I've never bought machines from China, but I have from Japan, and I buy a fair amount of equipment parts from China, mostly made to order for me. First off, if it can't go in a container, the ocean freight is going to be very expensive. You would be amazed at how they put excavators in containers, one piece at a time. Each machine will require special cleaning to pass inspection at the US port, USDA inspects every machine for dirt, plant life, and especially insects. Clearance on each invoiced shipment will run roughly $600. There may be duty, depends on the exact machine type. The BIG elephant in the room is EPA. If the engine in the machine does not meet the emissions specs for the year of manufacture, or does not have the engine manufacturer's EPA sticker on the valve cover, ain't NO way to get that into the US. Half a million ******** no problem, one non-certified engine, it's thousands of dollars in fines, maybe a couple years in jail and you get to send the machine back to it's port of loading, on your nickel. Coming out of Japan we always shipped machinery on the car haulers, RORO (Roll On, Roll Off) if it wouldn't fit in a container, Shanghai I don't think has RORO but I could be wrong.
another thing is it a grey market machine and what about parts? and what i have seen of the way they treat equipment i think it would be a money pit. I would buy local and pay a little more so you could see and drive it some and have oil samples done to check for Problems... Just my 2 cents
There will be importers bringing those machines in, they either travel there to look them over or have an agent they trust over there to look them over, and they know all the hurdles to getting them in and how to get around or over them. You will find lots of them at Ritchie auctions, lol. Dealers dump their lemons at Ritchie.
There were pickers all over Japan when the exchange rate was good. You established a relationship with one or two and they took care of all the foreign country stuff till the machine got loaded on the ship. Most of the curb stoners I worked with had people at the port that would take care of the cleaning and trucking out. I did the majority of the check out and repairs to make the machines marketable and the dealers set up the attachments like thumbs and buckets with other vendors. Some had a vendor for painting. The EPA regs started to take a hold of the market hard around 98, the manufacturers slowed production, the exchange rates evened out and the gray market just dried up. I've heard the pitch several times that the Chinese are going to jump in with excess iron but what they produce is no where near the quality that we were getting out of Japan. The prices you see are likely what they are worth over here.
you mention the prices there would be the same here but I don't think that's true, I see many cat 320 or 330 with 3000-8000 hours for 25-35k over here in the us a 25 ton cat trackhoe would easily run 50k with 5000 hours on it
Most companies change there oil every 250-350 hours I think the chinese do the same, They make alot of the parts you buy off ebay. I fully understand chinese people are sometime crooked but there serious people
China is tricky... About a year ago I finally got curious enough about the Machinery Trader ads that I took me and two of my partners there and spent a week. We hired a translator and literally lined up meetings with 15 of these "dealers" in Shanghai. Man, was that an experience! haha First off, most of the machines that are listed by someone on Machinery Trader are not owned by that person or dealer. Most of the Shanghai machines (especially CAT and Komatsu) are owned by either 1) chop-shops that piece together frankenstein machines and use dealers to peddle them, or 2)large investment groups that buy tons of used machines, put them on a common yard, then let these dealers all list them with hopes of commissions. That is why sometimes you see the same machine in different ads by different people. 10-3 years ago China was building like CRAZY. They still use more steel per year then all of North and South America combined, and construction is going on EVERYWHERE over there. Well, up till a few years ago when they were building massively fast, large companies from all over the world were moving their machines in there, and many of them dumped them there and they ended up in these large investor's lots. These are good machines. some are USA made, some are Japan made, and some are Chinese made. The true Chinese CAT machines are good, I have been to the main excavator factory in Xuzhou. Unbelievable massive operation.... You can not import these Japanese and Chinese machines into the USA due to EPA, but they sell well in Mexico, South America, Dubai, Africa, ETC. If you know what you are doing, you can get a good machine. I use CAT ET and (I have subscription) and confirm with ECU checks on the machines we have bought. I have also been to several places that advertise these great deals, and they are actually old SANY machines with CAT sheetmetal! Or older 320D machines with Mitsubishi motors, Hyundai controls, and Doosan drives and undercarriages. From 50 feet away they look perfect! There are also a few dealers that have shown good machines, then even after they are loaded in container and watched by the buyer leave the yard to port, the dealer somehow swaps containers and the customer ends up with a different CRAP machine 2 months later.... So yes, as people have said, there is some junk. There is also the in-between, such as SEM 919 graders BRAND NEW dressed up as CAT 140K machines. SEM is owned by CAT as a subsidiary. These are actually pretty good machines, you can get a new one for around 100k! And as long as you know it is an SEM and not CAT. We have a few running in Kenya right now as I type this. Very simple machines, no electronic controls, manual engines, no DPF or emissions crap. Really just like the older 140h machines.... Search SEM, see the history and ownership by CAT. I have a new business partner in Shanghai and just incorporated a business in Hong Kong for the purpose of Chinese purchasing and export. My main business is parts, and we get a lot out of China. By travelling there frequently and having a partner there, I have control over quality, shipping, etc. And by having business in Hong Kong that we run money through, we have control over funds and not getting into trouble by transferring money through a Chinese-owned bank... Shoot me a message or an email if you have any questions and I can maybe give you some more info/advice or help you out. I have spent a year and a bunch of money to set up to do business in China, and it is a good thing I did! Lots of killer deals, good quality parts and machinery, and generally good profit to be made. But would not even CONSIDER it without the education, experience, and partners in China that I now have..... We own a business in Kenya that we send most of these machines to, and most of the parts we buy and import into the USA. Lastly, to answer your original question, a 40' high cube container from Shanghai to USA should run you around $6,000, much less if you do volume and have customs bond in place and such. Most of my containers go Shanghai to Huntsville, AL for around $5,000 to final destination and includes import costs. Shanghai definitely has RORO options to East coast, and Houston, usually transships in Jebel Ali. Like I said, hit me up with any questions or advice, I have no problem sharing from my "education" and experience.
thanks for the advice, If i have any other questions I'l email you. I woulder if those ex200 hitachi's are fake. The cat 320 looked a little older that the advertised year hmmm.
Good, high quality excavators are the most plentiful type of machine there for good deals. I have looked at several Hitachi machines that were legit, but the exceptional deals on Machinery Trader are probably fake. I have bought a few 320D machines form there that were excellent deals. They made the 320D in China, Japan, and somewhere in Eastern Europe (can't remember exact location) well after they discontinued them here for newer models. The majority of the deals I have seen are Cat, Komatsu, Hitachi, and Volvo.
your spot on, those ex200s go anywhere from 15k-30k in china with 3000-5000 hours, here in the us an older ex200 will easily go for 25k. So even with $5000 in shipping cost you still saving money and getting a low hour machine.
Just my opinion, but saving $5k just to have the hassle of shipping a machine from CHINA?!?! I'd rather have a good relationship with my local Cat dealer then jump through all of those hoops!
Nice to read something informative about this topic Thanks for your post with real info backed by real experience. Seems like so much of what you can dig up about grey market machines is second hand info or prognosticating. I have a farm in VT, have had a CAT 120 for 10 years, it's time to upgrade. I've imported farm equipment from Europe and Canada and lots of new equipment from China directly from manufactuers so I'm relatively experienced with the world of importing equipment, and I'm also experienced with the challenges of communicating with the Chinese. I've been in communication with several dealers in Shanghai about 20 ton excavators. I'm not fussy on brand, just looking for a good value on a machine that is in good shape. I've found a Komatsu PC 220 from Uexca Equipment. It's a 2011 with 3500 hours for 23k. They can ship it to Boston for $3500 and I figure another $1500 in broker fees, etc. This machine has an engine serial number label with an EPA number on it. I've shown the label to the EPA and they say it looks fishy because one number indicates the machine is a 2011 and another seems to indicate it's a 2004. I'm not sure if the EPA is right or not, I'm going to look into it more on Monday. Anyway I'd really like to buy an EPA importable machine from over there for about 1/2 the money of what they go for over here. If anyone has any advice on dealers to work with in Shanghai who can actually deliver an EPA machine I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
Hey do you have an email that I can use to ask you some more questions about this? Pete
I am looking at several used CAT 330s in Shanghai. My partner is an ex-cat trained mechanic and we hope to visit / inspect the machine before paying for it. The destination is Ghana. Your post mentioned 'not getting into trouble by transferring money through a Chinese-owned bank...'. Can you tell me more about that? Is it safe to use ICBC London Branch to pay in Shanghai? Also do you know any good import / export companies to use in Shanghai?
Im also looking for Machines to export to Ghana. Have you had any luck with exporting from Shanghai ?
I have several questions for you as I;m planning a trip to Shanghai to inspect a Excavator. Whats the best way to get in contact with you ?
40' HQ from Miami to Taiwan is $2k, I wonder why its $6k from Shanghai to US?
Depends on what you're shipping and to which port, but I just checked a rate with my broker/forwarders for giggles and Shanghai to Long Beach was about $1,500 for the fabricated metal, undercarriage, and final drives I usually import. That's ocean freight charges only.
Welcome to the Forums Van Diesel! I would guess it's because there are a lot of empty ships heading from Miami to Taiwan, so it's a backhaul. :beatsme
And I doubt there is any EPA regs in Taiwan either.
I don't know their environmental regs but Taiwan is not what I would describe as third world. Went there in the middle 2000's, Taipei 101 and all. The building is impressive with the fastest elevators I've ever ridden in. The massive "counterweight" suspended at the top of the tower to compensate for wind sway is massive. Now that has nothing to do with the topic but it was an interesting experience.
Ocean freight charges is a mystery. It $3k for 20' from Miami to Jamaica (3 days sailing), $2k for 40' to Taiwan (35 days sailing). It should be the opposite, at least in this case (motor oils products and such).
It's all about volume and competition.
And where in Kenya are you based? Contacts? We will be much obliged
Hi there im new here ive been talking to a company in china about buying a pc 200-200-8 the quoted me a good price ive never done anything like this before they say they can handle shipping for me all at a good price i think im just not sure about sending money over there i would appreciate in help you could give thanks
Ralph,go on Machinery Trader and check out all the Cat and Komatsu branded machines you can.Scroll through them and make your own decision on wether you’d like to purchase a quality branded machine in China and then ship it home. I’m not really an excavator kind of chap,but I’m not bad on Cat dozers. In my case,I would not buy one from China
Bear in mind I own no equipment. I don't see it being worth the hassle. Sure you might save a few bucks but if it turns out to be a scam, paperwork not filed correctly, non-EPA compliant, gray market, machine has problems etc then you've just flushed that money down the toilet. I'd be more comfortable buying something sight unseen from Ritchie's than importing used machines from China.
Yes,I’d rather catch a smack in the mouth from RB than a kick up the ass from someone wearing a Chinese boot
It is the utter completeness of the screwing you can get going overseas. At least with RB you have the scrap value if a chunk of junk rolls off the lowboy at your location.
Okay, all this EPA talk. The solution is ship the machine in a container with NO engine. Ship the engine as parts only. Shipping etc. ? I just say or ask, I'm really not interested in what you are advertising what the machines cost is, but what it all will cost to have it delivered to my house or? Let them handle all the hassles, and say I'm willing to pay COD. You would think if these folks in china really wish to sell stuff they would have all the infrastructure to do what I just said.
Yep - Don't do it. I've been to China twice -everything was fake right down to the Coke-Cola and the Marlboros. That Kommie 200 may not even be a Kommie 200. As others have said you would have better luck bidding blindly on RB or Ironplanet. At least IP does a 1/2 ass inspection.
Run fast, and run far away, from Chinese sellers of used construction equipment that are nearly always dodgy in the extreme. The only way you could even start to do this, would be to have a trusted person on the ground in China, overseeing everything from inspection to loading and securing the shipping container. The areas for being scammed in dealing with China for used equipment are bigger than a Nigerian street market. The only importing I have done (that panned out "as described") was with DRMO, now Govt Liquidation/AllSurplus. There's plenty of good used surplus U.S. military machines and items of equipment - don't be led astray by Chinese con-artists, they can run rings around a pea-and-thimble merchant.
Hello well what i did i talked to several dealers over there in China i bought a machine payed them for it payed them 5500 for shipping, now they keep tellin me shipping has gone way up an ill just have to wait till it comes down, thrrr in shanghai its coming to houston, been waiting 4 months im thinking ill never ser that machine. Any information would be greatly appreciated thanks ralph
I think your comment “I’m thinking I’ll never see that machine” is going to be your answer. IF and that’s a big IF, by chance you do receive the machine, it will not look anything like you thought you bought. I’ve read this story more than once on these forums.
My best advice I can give to anyone buying a piece of used yellow iron is - Go see it in person and operate it prior to ANY money changing hands. This advice goes for every country around the globe. If an offer is too good to be true 99.9999 times it is. Rc you were more than likely scammed, I am sorry.
There is no machine and you got taken.
Unfortunately you seem to have disregarded the advice from this forum and now seem to be paying the price