I know it is legal to run red diesel in heavy equipment but how do you get it? Here in Texas the only places I have found that sell it cater to farmers and they won’t sell it to you unless you show them an Ag/timber card.
I’m in the UK and we stopped using red diesal in construction equipment April 2022. It’s ok to use in farming providing the machinery doesn’t go on the public highway at all (I don’t know any farmers that don’t have to use public highway at some point). I have forklift trucks in my yard,but it’s not worth buying red diesal for them due to not wanting to waste time going to a fuel depot to collect it.
I always bulk delivery order mine for my use. I have a 100gallon transfer tank and a 275 gallon tank that I use. Usually just leave them sit where the truck can get to them. I prefer paying by a credit card so its hassle free.
Thats the law.
In Ohio I think you just need to claim it's for off-road use. I have a few neighbors that get it either delivered or there's a spot down the road to get cans filled. I haven't used it except when filling from a neighbors tank, occasionally. I don't know how much less expensive it is and I've never heard of anyone getting popped for using it on road, but I haven't been around these farming parts for too long.
In Kansas you just go to the dyed diesel pump. I've mistakenly got dyed a couple times over the years like that.
There aren't as many pumps as there used to be, but there are still some, just not as close. Anybody will deliver red fuel, it's the same as heating oil, on here some say it's the same as ULSD clear and the dye is added when they dispense. It's almost $.55 cheaper, that's the tax, but it's not all passed along. Never heard of the timber card, must be a TX thing? You can also burn road fuel and claim the taxes back on your taxes, same as gasoline.
Red fuel is in a pump next to the road fuel. Unless you have a charge card issued by the station, they charge sales tax on the red fuel, so its only a dime cheaper than road fuel. With the charge card they rebate the sales tax on the monthly billing. The station went to red fuel at the pump so the school district could get rid of their own fuel tank.
I haven't seen it at stations in Arizona. We order from a distributor and have it delivered to our 1500-gallon tank, then transfer it up to the mine as needed.
A farmer buddy of mine says the price difference between dyed and clear isn't much anymore.
It is easy to buy red diesel in Texas, if you can find places that sell it. I bought red diesel there for the past 25 years for my diesel mowing, landscaping, and land clearing equipment. Just get on the internet and search for the " Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts". You can even find a phone number if you want to call them. There is a form online you can download, form # AP-197-3. Fill it out and mail or fax it to them. They will issue you an account number. Carry this signed document and the account number with you at all times. Some sales locations may ask you for this proof, some may not. Most fuel and oil distributors have red diesel, as well as many rural gas stations. The form simply asks you how you are going to use this offroad diesel in your business. Jeff
Terrible mistake
My town has a red diesel pump right next to the regular diesel pump. But that store is always the highest price in town and I can usually buy on road diesel cheaper at another station.
In FL they have it at pumps at many locations. You can also have it delivered. I think it is about $0.50 cheaper than on road, the tax. Here in FL, the DOT guys like to pull over trucks and dip tanks for dyed fuel, especially leaving horse shows. They try to exact LARGE fines if caught.
Not really
I read that with sarcasm cfherrman... Don't know if it was.
In Minnesota you can buy it at the pump or have it delivered road tax is $.53 so yeah burn 60,000 gallons a summer and that adds up if your using it for mining exclusively you should have a sales tax exemption for production so its a little less there too Also in Minnesota home heating fuel has no bio in it as is not the same as dyed diesel Any time trucks are pulled over tanks are dipped we are always clear so don't know the exact consequences but they can be huge Uncle Sam doesn't like you messing with his income
I hear it's the IRS (no messing around) and first offense is $10k
Ive always heard the dye will last forever, don't ever use it, etc. When I put in my transfer tank the dye was gone after the next tank, if you put it in there on accident I seriously doubt you will ever get caught.
You know that red die cat sells for oil. If there's someone giving you problems......
I have no problem getting the red fuel, its paying for it thats problematic.
The card lock here has about a 10 cent difference between clear and red its bull but it should be about 54cents difference
Can run off road in refer, but most truck stops don't offer off road for a reason. Here it's just ULSD dyed in many cases. Heating oil here is the same only treated.
I've only seen it at one gas station in 3 counties in my area, they call it "Off Road Diesel" and it doesn't have the highway tax on it. I have my own 500 gallon tank to fuel my machine and have it filled by fuel oil companies. Here in NY the fine for running untaxed fuel on the road is $10,000
What’s the law? I am 99% sure it is legal for me to use red diesel in my dozer and excavator. It seems like it would be illegal to buy it using an ag/timber card because doing so you are swearing the item purchased is for farm use and it’s not.
I keep a hidden tank on the rigs for at least 200 gallons to fill up, so whichever rig I am in when I'm in town I can go to any pump to get it in town. I drive more miles on my property and between my properties on private dirt/rock road in a month than I do going to town. So I surmise one can figure out what else I do with that red diesel besides machinery and heat my home. Fifty cents in difference between red and regular diesel adds up once you get over 100 gallons.
While many people run heating oil in their diesel engines.. I think there's a difference. Cetane... Diesel Engine fuel has a minimum cetane rating. Does heating oil have a minimum cetane and lubricity requirement ? I doubt it.
Farm use implies heavy machinery, it's like saying you are using it on a farm yet using it on a ranch, semantics... Nope, it's like one of those torpedo heaters rated for kerosene.
Here in Langley BC, I buy died for our tractor. As long as I buy less than 50litres at a time, no problems. If I get more than 50 l, there is a form to fill out stating what you are using it for. The price is about $.11 less per litre than road price ($.46 cdn per us gallon, guestamat). I usually fill 3 jerry cans to 15l for easier handling so I never fill out the form. At the regular station, the pump is locked and the attendant comes out to unlock it. At the cardlock, the form is on file so just fill up. Cam
No it doesn’t. Farm use has a very specific definition in the tax code. Who Qualifies for Agricultural and Timber Exemptions? If you are a farmer, rancher or timber producer engaged in one of the activities listed below, you qualify for tax exemption on the purchase of certain items used to produce your agricultural and timber products for sale. All purchasers, including non-Texas residents, must have a valid agricultural and timber registration number (ag/timber number) issued by the Comptroller to claim exemption from Texas tax. If you do not have a valid ag/timber number, you must pay tax to retailers on your purchases. Your business type must be listed below to qualify for tax exemption on certain items or for an ag/timber number. Which Activities Qualify? farming or ranching for the purpose of raising agricultural products for sale; timber production (including contract logging); feedlot operation; commercial fish farm operation; bee keeping; custom harvesting; crop dusting (as defined by 14 CFR Section 137.3); growing plants for sale in a commercial nursery; a veterinary business that makes farm or ranch calls; Future Farmers of America or 4-H; or teaching an agricultural vocational course.
Here you can buy it at certain pumps with a credit card, but not very many places. Most have it delivered. The cardlock has video cameras. If they see you pumping it into a truck, they will ask you not to come back. I was working for an excavation contractor and saw clear fuel in the genset I had apart. I asked him why and he said that he has no red diesel on the property, that way the hired help does not put red into a truck. He does the thing where you get the tax money back at the end of the year, instead.
No dyed fuel in Alaska. Don’t have enough storage to keep that many flavors on tap. This time of year, on the road system, heating oil, K1, ULSD #1, it’s all the same. Sometimes, if the price is right, Jet A will get sold as home heat. Other parts of the state, it’s a crap shoot. Some communities only get JetA. Other towns get 250ppm home heat, instead of 15ppm ULSD#1.
Here it's common for DOT to dip tanks, especially in the Columbia Basin. The other- is they look for a fuel line from nurse tank to vehicle. Fine 10 grand.
It’s 9 cents a litre here. Enough for me to justify the hassle of running it in equipment.
I've read that you can run diesel in a kerosene torpedo heater and those classic circle kerosene heaters. It sounds like you guys are suggesting similarly. I've also read some folks do a mix of kerosene and normal pump diesel. Anyone doing that? Assuming a have decent ventilation can I do it in my shop? Also, if fuel oil is basically diesel do I need decent ventilation? Sorry to change subjects...
I ran diesel in a regular kerosene heater, worked fine but smoked a lot, perhaps with a Dan might burn hotter and smoke less, might smoke too much and build up too much doit.
I forget but Red has 2 different prices in KY. There is off road which anyone can buy at the pump for about .20 less. If you have a Ag number it is about .50 less. I have it delivered in bulk and is about .30 less and don't have a Ag number. Some pull up and put Red in their truck and like anything else its all legal so long as you don't get caught
I used clear road diesel in a couple of Tiki torches. After the evening, the wicks were choked by fluffy soot. The soot wiped away but kero or torch fuel doesn't build up soot.
I've been guilty of running red a few times in my truck.
We have 2000 gallons of off road diesel storage at our farm, and 500 gallons of road diesel for our trucks. Never fails, there is always that one new guy that pulls up to fuel his truck for the day and uses the off road diesel. To be honest, we've never pumped it out when it happens, and we've never had our tanks dipped the couple times we've been stopped by DOT either. It doesn't happen daily, but a couple times a year, someone does it.
Nowhere in that does it say anything about fuel. I don't see DOT showing up at your job site dipping tanks on excavators. I run diesel all the time in my torpedo heater, never had kerosene in them, they can be adjusted if the mixture is off since not everyone lives at the factory settings altitude.
Once used down to negligible in a truck tank red dye does dissipate to next to not detectable, HOWEVER, it is when a Commercial shop does maintenance and fuel filters have red dyed fabric or paper they are "Supposed" to report, good luck to the State officials in that.
I used to run diesel in a torpedo but it did not like it very well. Strange burning and the spark plug built up a stalactite over time. I added a cup or two of gasoline to the mix and it burned very clean after that. I always did it in the closed shop but it was drafty and doors always up and down. Not sure I would run one it a tight shop, too stinky.
In Missouri you can buy red fuel but they only remove the federal part of the tax and you have to apply for a refund for the state (or vice versa). So you save about 24 cents a gallon I think. They have it pumps at the stations no questions asked.
I am not saying you can’t use red in heavy equipment I know you can what I am saying is when you buy it I don’t think you can say it is farm use or use your AG number to buy it if it clearly isn’t used for the listed qualified AG purposes. Some people farm and buy thousands of gallons of red diesel for their tractors and I am sure they fill up their heavy equipment with it from time to time as well and that is probably ok. What I am saying is if a person isn’t a farmer or rancher at all and does nothing ag related and just owns and operates heavy equipment I don’t think they want to be filling out the paperwork claiming they are a farmer and the fuel is for ag purposes. There has to be some other legal way to get it without fraudulently claiming to be a farmer.
Interesting Birken, thanks. Maybe I'll try diesel with some gas (literally a cup or two?). I'm definitely worried about fumes and soot, but I also have some drafts and I have a pretty nice little exhaust fan waiting for me to put somewhere for this very experiment, I've just been hesitant to cut any holes in the side of my house. I may be able to jam the fan in a window temporarily.
Download AP-197 form from https://comptroller.texas.gov and turn that in.
From what I read all that says farms are not required to pay sales tax on anything . So you can buy and use red diesel and pay sales tax, but I would make a phone call to be sure. Bad Bob.
I suppose the federal tax is what you can claim back if you burn taxed fuel for farm use. State tax would be separate, and the state sets the laws, so farm might be exempt, and off road construction might pay state tax.
You're probably burning a couple thousand litres a month, it'd definitely add up.
Stealing that! Thanks!
A truck that has farm use on the side could have a dead hooker strapped to the hood drive straight through town hitting every parked car and flip off the sheriff on the way out, everyone would just wave.
Kerosene tends to burn cleaner in a torpedo heater than #2 diesel yes they can be tuned and adjusted and you really should make sure its running the best it can if its running inside for any amount of time it seems maybe the ulsd diesel doesn't smell as bad as the old days either way it pumps a lot of fumes and will kill you Where you really need kerosene is when you pull the torpedo heater out of the service truck at -35f and hope that it will light
Prefer K1 to Diesel in fuel heaters, much cleaner. Kind of like Dual Fuel Coleman lanterns, will make light on Gasoline, work abundantly better on White Gas Coleman fuel, or VN Era M35 Deuce and Halfs with that multifuel burn anything so long as blended to the cheat sheets, would ALMOST get out of its own way on mix of Gear Oil, Hyd or Trans Oil with a minimal amount of Diesel and Gas. All were basic same design, Continental, Hercules or White engines.
Aaaaannnddd this is why I didn't put any diesel in there yet... A million different responses! I love it and trust them all but unfortunately for my wallet tend to lean towards the not suffocating side of things. Thanks, as always, guys.
Say it ain't so.
To heck with the gas prices, nice old Kenworth though.
And gad under a quarter!
I would just put kero in it if you can, the only reason I put diesel in it was because that is what I had at the time. But with the gas mixed in and shop closed up I did not notice any abnormal fumes and I am still around to talk about it.
Yep, and give me Ethyl if she's workin'.
What was Ethyl? Another name for higher octane?
Now Colson, ain’t that young!! Ethyl for Tetraethyl Lead premium gas.
Ethyl is the flash back to my younger days
Knew a rather frisky gal named Ethel once, she was married to someone else, but a willing soul for some odd reason for Others too!!
Can still remember buying Av Gas at 110 Octane for Race weekends!!! Engines ran Cooler!!
$7.62 for 100LL today at Lake Hood. Seriously, that sounds like a bargain, considering current RUG and ULSD prices.
A Pacific Pride main office here had LL100 at the card lock, you just had to ask and they would turn the pump on.
That's the kind of Ethyl I thought of immediately, didn't know of the other fuel type of Ethyl...
That's probably the law governing the merchants too. But here they are allowed and WILL deliver to your stead whatever quantity of (red) heating-oil which like road diesel at 'the pumps' changes in level-of-refinement with current temperature while remaining exactly the same product except for the red dye. The dye BTW fades out if you leave the stuff in transparent containers in the sun, ESPECIALLY in Texas I would suspect
Delivery is simple, Same Truck, Same load of ULSD is pumped to tanks, driver adds red dye after filling Your Tank into Your Tank, they do not haul Red Fuel in trucks here, just add dye to your tank load after filling.
Interesting on the dye there. I was led to believe the refinery at McPherson adds the dye before the fuel goes into the pipeline.
They at least add it before the fuel truck
Can’t, would infiltrate every other product, indiscriminate as to migration. Kind of like adding odorant to LP at the pipeline drop stations as also ship Anhydrous in those lines.
Driver carries the dye, no other way it would not line every tank, hose or fitting and contaminate any other load.
I certainly do not know, but I do know that it won't contaminate from my opps experiences.
Ethanol is another problem child, cannot ship by pipeline, use water slugs to separate products, alcohol is water soluble and would migrate away from gasoline, Truck Tanker or Tank Rail car loads or shipboard only.
Trucks here have Red already in the truck, but these trucks don't deliver to stations. They are straight trucks
Red fuel delivered to AK by boat I can see as transported that way, here by Trailer or bulk truck the only difference is after the driver adds the dye to the delivered load and the bill removes the Fed tax.
I haven’t seen dyed fuel oil in Alaska since the prudhoe bay crude distillery unit closed, a long time ago. Anyone recall when that was? It wasn’t red, either. It was the brightest, neon pink, koolaid you ever laid eyes on. Plus, the API was abnormally high, as I recall. Ranging from 48-50.
I’ve never seen or heard of drivers tasked with additizing loads with dye. I guess anything is possible. B20, ULSD, heating oil, off-road, RUG, Ethanol-free. Multiple products have sure changed tank design. Look how popular new five and six compartment tank trucks are.
I remember reading about “fuel washing” in Northern Ireland in the 2015 time frame. Found it very interesting the process they used to remove dye.
That’s how it is here when I had a tank at my yard, one fill had virtually no dye at all.
Spoke to the guys that deliver here, MIDWEST Fuels, MFA, Wallis Oil, all carry a partial one gal jug of Red Solvent Dye in the trucks, takes only a ounce or two per farm tank(250-400 gal) to dye the fuel. Drivers Hate the stuff, gets on or into every piece of cloth they have and have to wear off skin if hole a glove. Midwest delivered to the yard I recently worked at, Wallis delivers to many of the local stations, same truck load of fuel they will split out to several tanks including "Off Road" station tanks, just add dye quantity to gallonage delivered. Is not any Diesel delivered less than ULSD anymore, even the Nuke that required a Premium diesel for the aged Colt Pielstick generators can only get ULSD they get additive Paraffin by the supplier to add lubricity.
Off road around here is delivered dyed, when I worked for farmers co-op all off road was already dyed at the tank farm terminal on the Snake River Pasco. And expensive with the extra piping/manifolds then bottom loaders and metering for farm. And a pita to work on.
Used to put dyed diesel in the rigs I worked on and it was always high sulfur diesel. They stopped allowing dyed in rigs around 08ish and I don't know when dyed became ultra low sulfur as I didn't notice until this year as I don't buy dyed.
I think all the dyed was ulsd by 2011, as the tier 3 engines for off road were only 1 year behind tier 3 on road.
I think all ULSD in US & Canada, on road/ off road, heating oil is less than than 15ppm. Except, in Alaska, there is a Federal exemption that allows 250 ppm heating oil. Which is common in the SE part of the state. That fuel is likely to be sourced globally, unlike the Anchorage rack Petro/Marathon/Tesoro, which is mostly from the PNW.
Ruh-Roh, OMG! The diesel is drippin’ & the terminal manager is trippin’. But, it’s not the red flavor. Knowwhatimsayin? Like 15 bucks a gallon!. Lol. Not really. It’s on the road system. MPC’s finest ULSD#1 from Anacortes. Time to pack up my game and head out west. I’ll fix that leaky pipe, the way I know best.
Victaulic coupler.
Sharp eye!. It’s a cheap, cast, Chinese facsimile of a Victaulic model 75. But, I’ll replace it with a genuine Vic model 77 loaded with a “T” gasket. Down south, almost everyone runs viton gaskets because of Bio fuel. But, Viton starts leaking at -20F. Buna N stays good to minus whatever, it’s too cold to deliver fuel, temperature. So, only genuine Victaulic “T” gaskets for me.
Lol I always thought it was victraulic
My little biz in the Valley is the only one in the entire state that sells genuine Vic grooved pipe clamps with fuel compatible gaskets. Sprinkler clamps are easily available and too often, fuel companies use them and wonder why the gaskets leak. Lol.
Replaced a number of Victaulic seals over the years, mainly because the cheapskate I hauled fuel for bought the cheaper incorrect seals thinking would get by!! He found his at a Fire Sprinkler supplier, what a dork.
Victraulics are for makin' music.
Everyone can relax. T58 is back on the road delivering non-dyed, off-road to the good folks living in the shadow of Mt. Denali. Worked a late one and pump tested her with 500 gallons this morning. No leaks. Cargo Tanks big or small, NTS LLC fixes them all.
That all most looks like a Boston tank.
Why yes it does. Boston is a Tremcar product and Tremcar purchases ALMAC tanks from those French speaking Canadians. The truck in the picture is built by Oilman’s in SC with an ALMAC tank.
Kinda cool it went all the way from here to there
Spartan. Great folks in SC. Southern hospitality all the way around. Thicc lasses with that accent. OMG. But, you have some crazy bugs. Like this spawn of satan living on my turbocharger actuator, when I visited over the summer.
My father visited every state in the union, and many of the countries in the world and he always swore that the greatest proportion of good looking women were here and in southern California. I do hate dirt daubers, you can take a mechanism apart on Saturday, and when you come back to it on Monday, every hole will be packed with clay, hardened to the consistency of concrete. The leaf cutter bees are almost as bad, park a trailer, they will pack the gladhands with shredded leaves. When a driver hooks up and pressurizes the lines, it pushes them into the air valves.
Boston is a good product, nice clean fabrication. Company I worked for had two of them.