Hello, I'm looking to buy a old Carco model F winch for My cat D6c, i have no experiance of winches. Does anywone have used that kind of winch and is it a good model?? Where can i get a hold of specs or pictures off the winch inside?
Carco builds a good winch. Need to match a winch that is either for direct drive or powershift transmission.
yes to what OM said. Carco F50ps for a powershift D6C or a F50sg for a direct drive D6C. You want one that came off a D6. Most F50s were standard fitment on a Allis Chalmers HD11 or a International TD15B/C. Only very late ones were fitted to caterpillars. The stud pattern and pto shaft are different for all 3 tractors. Amazingly though the spigot size for the pto shaft hole is the same size for all 3. They can be adapted to fit, but is a lot of work redrilling stud holes. You also need a winch pump and oil lines for a powershift winch.
Ok, i think the winch i'm looking at is mounted on a direct drive d6 and My dozer is with powershift, is there no way i can use that winch? Thanks for all the help
The powershift version has an internal hydraulic operated clutch in order to disconnect the constant running pto shaft so that it can be shifted. Don't even think about running a direct drive winch on a powershift unit by stop/starting the engine to shift. That is a death wish in the making.
Ok, so there is no "easy" way to convert a direct driven one to a powershift ?
Never say never. If you have enough time and money and access to all the parts to gut and replace what is in the housing along with remote mounted hydraulic pump and controls it could be done. In other words "forget it".
OK, that's probably the best, do You knew what kind of winches that Will fit direct on My dozer? Thanks for the help
Other main option is the Hyster model D6C, D, or E in power control version.
sometimes people do fit powershift winchs on direct drive tractors. Has the winch your looking at got a single short control lever or 2 big long levers, ?? 2 long levers is a sliding gear winch, ones a fwd/rev other the manuel brake. pic will soon tell me; or whats the model no on the brass s/n tag. Other winchs, again it has to be a powershift winch, not sliding gear. Both variants were made by Carco and Hyster. Cat only made p/s versions. Cat model is a 56; but NOT a 56H that's for a D6H. Carco F50 or 60. Hyster were by far the more common winch. D6D, D6E, W6E and W6F. last one is the one is the best as it has a internal hyd pump, all you have to do is bolt winch on and fit hand control lever.
Thank's Will look for These other winches
Here is the W6E/D6E if you want to take a look. http://www.alliedsystems.com/pdf/Winch/Manuals/599189W.pdf
pic of W6E on my D6D. The D series winchs were cast steel frame. W series is fabricated weldment frame. Internally both the same
d6 Marv, Cat does build a #55/56 winch for direct drive. model 35U1-up is power shift (standard speed). 36U1-up is direct drive (standard speed). 37U1-up is low speed in either power shift or direct drive version.
yes your correct OM with the 3 serial numbers; but they are all a powershift winchs. Only difference between the 3 is the gear ratios. Cat never made a sliding gear winch
Internally they are not as solid as a hyster or carco winch. The 37U low speed model is known for taking out gear teeth. Mind you this is usually due to people running rope bigger than 1 inch on them too. End of the day something has to break, and if its a rope its easier to fix !! A pulley block can save a lot of problems on winch jobs at times 37U winch on this D6D other dozers a HD6ep
OK, agreed, they are all hydraulic clutch type units, whether mounted direct drive or power shift.
I know of someone who has a power shift D7E with a direct drive hyster D7D winch. I have never personally seen it in action although i can only imagine how much of a pain it must be to use. To engage the winch the engine nearly needs to be shut down and grind the winch into gear. To disengage, back off engine and release load on the gears like when you are clutchless shifting otherwise it will not come out of gear.
Yes, it can be done, but you need to be very smart and alert. It can be bloody dangerous. I know I have a sliding gear winch on my powershift HD6. I just put the powershift lever into gear to stall the converter and output shaft. Engage winch, release brake and take tractor out of gear. winch will wind in or out. Problem is; if you have any load on the winch whatsoever when you want to stop winching, it won,t come out of gear. this is where people get into trouble. You can,t go logging, its ok for abit of salvage work where your only using it very occasionally. OM was very right in his warning about not using it. Have now got a powershift winch for that crawler and I intend to change it when time permits.
i believe you about this configeration being dangerous and needing to be an experienced operator to operate. I am grapple skidder driver but i still drive the D60 when needed and it has a hyster W6F power controled so it is easy to operate. I could not think of anything worse for logging but old john used to snig a few logs for his brothers sawmill whenever needed on his property. John is really tight with his coin and picked the winch up for nothing and likes to do things the hard way. His brother peter was riding his motorbike to work and was hit by a hippie and killed about 12 years ago. The property was sold and bought by a local timber company who have established a hardwood plantation. The tractor has not run for 7-8 years, maybe longer and i dont understand why he has not looked at the problem. There is a problem with the transmission being locked in fwd and rev and will not move.
I just wanted to necro this thread for a note about what I found about this winch model when looking for a winch for our D6D. The Carco F50PS winches require a external hydraulic pump to operate the hydraulic clutch - most installs run a gear pump off the fan belt. The newer generation of winch, the Carco 60s, have an internal hydraulic pump instead.
yes totally correct. Same with Hyster winchs. W6F has internal hyydraulics; W6E and all D6C/D/E winchs need an external pump and plumbing for winch
Merv, Have you ever seen a sliding gear carco on an AC machine with a powershift and modulating clutch? That is what I am planning to do to one of my 16s, I think it will work great because what you have is just a clutch between the engine and torque converter. My father hd11ep has the carco F7 winch on it and we use it just like you said.
I'm going to install a 34K Tulsa, or 30K Braden winch on the rear of my 11B and drive it with a hydraulic motor and soft start solenoid valve. I have everything acquired already except cable, and a fairlead. It may look like an abomination when installed, but should be functional mostly for self extraction, skidding felled trees, etc.
Yes have seen Carco G80SG on a HD16DP, and a J10 on a HD21P. Sliding gear winch works on them because there is no drive thru the converter until the PTO slot on gear shift lever is engaged to allow drive thru modulating clutch to the converter.