My 1150E torque temps are running high into the yellow when it never has before. Trans gauge never worked so I replaced it with an numbered psi gauge instead of stock color indicated gauge.. At first start up with everything completely cool, I'm seeing 175-190 psi trans pressure at full throttle & 50-60 psi at idle... Once warmed up pressure drops to 150 psi at full throttle & 20-50 psi at idle... Not really sure where to begin. Trans pulls within 3-4 seconds of start up as normally does and operates just fine but I can tell it has a lack of power or better I say I can tell it's not pulling/spinning tracks as good... As If the torque converter is slipping more then normal... No abnormal noises of any kind. Not real sure where to start ?!... Should I just assume the charge pump is shot ?!.. Any input & advise is appreciated of course..
Wish there was a way I could tag Alrman
You rang?..... Could be any number of things going on here. A shame the pressure gauge wasn't working before, did you notice a sudden loss of performance? or did it just happen slowly & then you realised? Charge pumps don't usually suddenly lose flow/pressure. Problem could be in the transmission control valve, blown gasket or broken spring.
I feel as tho the loss of performance was over a period of time, maybe 50 hours of time... But the torque converter temps warming up didn't start untill the end of that 50 hours
One simple thing to check is the manual brake pedal to make sure it is all the way up. And check the brake levers on the brake housings also they could be half cocked, especially if the belly pan is full of dirt. Then check your pressure at the control valve where pressure line is attached. There is a modulator filter under that fitting that you need to check also. Make sure your modulator valve is going all the way back in when released. As Alrman said there are a number of things that could be the problem.
How can I rule out the charge pump... I'm going through process of elimination with everything.. So far... Pressure regulator springs are good.. Break linkage is adjusted properly... Suction hoses & clamps are tight... Suction filter does look original tho... But I want to test the charge pump some how so I can either rule it out and move on down the list or replace it if it is indeed bad... Is there a way to test charge pump ?!.. I do not have a fancy flow meter but I so have a couple 400 psi gauges.. Ready to pull my hair out over here and probably will if I have to craw under and back out from under this thing too many more times.. lol
A quick and dirty way to test your pump is to take the hose that comes out of your pumps and goes to your filter loose are the filter. On the dash of the machine is a no start switch, turn it to no start, this will allow the engine to crank without starting. Hold you thumb over end of hose from pump and crank engine over. If you can hold your thumb on end of hose without getting sprayed with oil then your pump is bad. If you get sprayed then pump is good.
So everything has checked out so far and I got to listening really closely and I can hear something going on in the charge pump... A very faint whining sound & a bearing noise of sorts... Possibly the pump gears slapping of each other... Nither are very loud and I have to stick my head down inside the floor board to hear it but it's prominent enough to hear even with everything else making a racket... Soo....I'm suspecting my charge pump is shot.. My question now is this... Can the charge pump be rebuilt ?!... Can a man get a rebuild kit for it that includes the pump gears ?! If so, from where ?... And if not.. anyone got a good used one they would sell ?!.. The whole Covid-19 crap has really screwed things up for me here and I'm now on a tight budget soo I'm trying to fix it without having to she'll out $1200 for a whole new pump.. I understand that I may not have any other choice but figured it would be worth asking about the rebuilt kit possiblity & asking about a possible used one.. Thanks for you response by the way fellas.. Wouldn't know what I'd have done over the years without you all's knowledge and expertise.. I'm 33 years old and this is my 7th case dozer and 19th piece of equipment so I have learned alot from you guys to say the least... Thank you
Not sure where you are getting your $1200 price from for the pump - I'm seeing prices of $745 - $800 for non genuine suppliers around the USA - part #R25586 Can I just say, Over the years, I've seen alot of guys throw money at new pumps - only to find they had the same problem...... It's not uncommon to here buzzing noises coming from pumps. The transmission control valve gaskets are more often the cause of what you are describing - but I'm only going by my gut feelings
Ok... Spent all evening on it again this evening... So far to date, this is what I've done, checked, inspected, cleaned & so on.. #1)Checked torque converter pressure relief valve and it looked good.. #2) Checked the modulator valve to make sure it was seating correctly, pushed all the way in on it and held it there with no change in pressure.. but I did not remove it.. #3) Checked the modulators little cone filter and it was free from debree but it did have a tare in it, so gonna order a new one and replace when it arrives.. #4) checked the transmission regulator valve and it & spring looked good.. #5) removed charge pump pressure line at filter and turned engine over with kill switch off while attempting to plug with my thumb.. A two second bump of the starter produced enough pressure that I was unable to keep the hose end plugged regardless of how hard I tried.. #6) checked for leaks on suction line going to charge pump & tightened hose clamps.. But I did not remove small sections of hose to check if internal later had collapsed, figure if inside hose layer collapsed I wouldn't be getting any pressure at all and no flow rather then partial pressure loss. #7) checked linkage going to break petals to make sure there was pre travel before spool valve is depressed so to be sure they weren't partially open.. #8) newer suction side charge pump filter not to long ago so it should be good.. #9) I checked a few other things as well but just can't think of everything right now... Soo... Am I too assume charge pump is good beings I couldn't plug high pressure line while bumping the starter ?!.. Should I assume that the only place left the problem could be is in either the transmission or transmission control valve body ?!.... Is there anyway to test the trans control valve body or the transmission itself for the loss of pressure/leak ?!... Boy what I'd give for a flow/pressure meter like illustrated in the service manual... Thanks again
Have you removed the rear cap on the trans housing? The one with the PTO looking shaft coming out of it., yours may have a cover on it, the seal rings could be damaged keeping pressure from building in the hi-lo trans circuit. If it doesn't have pressure the system will not work. Also check your cap for grooves when you pull it off. Mind the shim gaskets when you remove the cap DON'T tear them.
Rings & cap good... Im at a complete loss on it and don't know what to do with it. Outside of tearing transmission control valve body apart and a transmission itself apart I don't know what's left that could be the problem. I've lost a crap ton of money by it being down this long and if this goes on for too much longer it's not going to be good.
Regasket your transmission control valve. Those are famous for blowing chunks of gasket out when they get old.
A few months ago and shortly before this low trans pressure issue started, I was having another issue with my foot brakes not disengaging power to the tracks consistently... you could push in on one of the brake pedals and some times it would disengage power to that track like it's saposed too and sometimes it wouldn't disengage the power to that track... It would always apply the brake disks and try to brake but it just wouldn't disengage power Everytime when the pedal was pressed... It still does this here and there when using foot pedals too steer.... Could this have something to do with my low transmission pressure ?!... Or should I assume they are just two separate issues ?!...
The pressure is low no matter what gear or range I'm in... So doesn't this rule out a clutch pack leak ?... I'f it was a clutch pack leak, would it only be low in that gear or that range ?!... Beings its pressure is low in all gear & range positions, what does this rule out and what does this price that it's not ?!...
Read post 13
..... also #3 & #9 ..... It's not a big expense & an odds on bet - just do it!
Ok... You guys have my Attention, lol. I'm on bored..... I'm gonna install a new Trans Control Valve gasket.. Is the gasket the one that mates the entire control valve to the transmission ?!... Or are we taking about a gasket within the control valve ?
....... There are two gaskets inside the main body of the control valve - upper & lower - either one could be gone - it's more often the lower one - replace both. Sometimes when you pull the valve off the machine & turn it upside down, you can actually see a piece of the blown out gasket in the square return/tank ports. There are quite a few hoses to remove to do this job - pictures & hose/fitting marking is very important - that is to get everything working right when you put it back together
I've always used colored zip ties for hoses and it's worked good soo I'll go that route again as well as snap some pics before removal.. Gonna order both gaskets in the morning and then start in on it just as soon as I get them. Will snap pics to post and keep you guys updated as well... Maybe the pics will help someone else some day
I hope you got your parts ordered and they didn't break the bank to bad. Case used to have a overhaul kit for the trans control valve IDK if they still do.
Finally got around to pulling the trans control tower on my 1150E and I found that the second lower gasket indeed was blown out... Is there a way to tag alrman ??... Wanna show him these pics and see if he agrees that this is for sure my issue .. ( I'm 96% sure it is)...
It is
@Timberking You're on to it! WOW! 4 years is a long time to get around to fixing this!!! **TIPS - When you put it back together, use some non hardening Permatex aviation gasket glue just around the area that blew out. Use a tension wrench. Be very careful when cleaning the main valve body, it's alloy, so avoid using those cleaning discs on a die grinder, as they will remove the metal & distort the sealing surfaces. Carefully scrape the old gasket & polish with fine wet & dry sandpaper (400)
Don't tell me it took you 4 years to pull that valve. Thats like the equivalent of 1 bolt a month
Vetech63 Ive Been in the shop working on it this whole time.....I'm glad to have it out so I can finally go in to eat & get some rest. Nah, I had another dozer and just didn't make it priority till now, but I now need my 1150E back up and pushing so I dove into it last night and got it out this morning... Alrman... As always, I appreciate pointing me in the right direction... Was happy to find the gasket blown out so the search is atleast over..
Beings my trans pressure gage never worked prior to the trans pressure drop and me only realizing there was an issue because of the torque Temps rising, should I be concerned about damage to my clutch packs ?... I'm assuming the issue was going on for a bit prior to me actually noticing so I'm now wondering if the low trans pressure could have allowed my clutch packs to slip....I guess my question is the higher torque Temps caused by the torque converter slipping more or the friction created by clutch packs slipping ?.. I was always under the assumption that a minimum safe pressure had to be reached before the trans would engage at all
It is possible there has been some extra wear that has occurred, but I wouldn't worry about it unless the transmission performance has been affected. Put it back together & see how it goes, it will probably push like a train
Be sure to check out your modulator valve while you have the control valve off, make sure the piston isn't stuck causing low pressure.
In regards to applying this Avation Gasket sealant, should I apply it to 100% of both sides of each gasket ?... Coy Lancaster, Now you got me nervous again as I thought this gasket being blown out was for sure the cause of my low pressure issue.. Which one is the modulator valve ?... I'm putting everything back together tonight, My gaskets came in this morning and I'm stopping to pick them up at 4 o'clock
The modulation valve is the small link in the center of the valve body.
The modulation valve is the small link in the center of the valve body.
This is the parts breakdown of modulation valve
The blown gasket IS your cause for low pressure. A small amount of sealant around the area that blew out, not the entire surface. Did you buy a complete reseal kit? Or just the gaskets? Coy probably has mentioned the modulator as another thing to check while the valve is apart. If you have the complete seal kit there is a small lip seal to install on the spool of the modulator.
Alrman, I only bought the 2 gaskets... ($410 for the both at my local parts dealer).. He didn't see a kit available, only the option to buy all individually. I am reusing the 3rd bottom gasket as it's in good shape and it doesn't have pressure against it, it's a seal only gasket but I may put a lite film of Rtv on it.. ( they wanted an additional $206 for the 3rd most bottom gasket, the one that sits against trans housing). I felt that price is way to high for just a regular old gasket, I can understand the price for gasket #1 & #2 beings they have specific gallied passageways cutouts but the bottom 3rd shouldn't be $200 in my opinion. Also, does anyone happen to know the torque specs for the bolts on top and bottom plates on the trans valve assembly ?!... (the bolts that wedge the gaskets)
She's done and back to 310 psi at idle... I appreciate all the help fellas !! Thank you...
Good to go