Hi Everyone, Just joined the forum today. This is my first piece of heavy equipment so please b kind! I bought this 1983 1450 loader about 6 mos ago. The seller told me that after it warms up a while it takes a second or two to go into gear. I got a great deal, so I bought it. it's worth just as much scrap! So basically what happens is after about an hour or so I will have to start tapping the gas to get it into gear. You can hear it squeal a little when going into gear. All of the temperature gauges are operating and normal. The converter temp is not even a quarter of the way in the green. Someone suggested that it could be something as simple as a clogged screen? Would this be the suction filter or charging pump? Do I need to drop the belly pan to get to this? I checked the fluid levels both in the hydraulic tank (operator cab) and in the big breather dipstick on the passenger side under the floorboard access door. Both have fresh fluids and are both at the full line. I love this old power shift and want to get it to the way it should be running. It's a beast of a machine and don't want to run it when I could fix a small problem that could inadvertently lead to a bigger problem. I would love to hear thoughts/suggestions as I am not heavy equipment savvy yet and would love to learn from some of the professionals on here! Thanks everyone
Welcome to the forum, and I not a case guy but my thought could be a clogged filter or more likely the trans needs resealed. Parts expand with heat and oil thins. My first task when getting any new, used equipment is change all the fluids and filters. This gives me a starting point to rule out possibilities later. While changing filters you may see something which will give you the clue of what the real issues is. Good luck
Thanks AllDodge. That is great advice. When I bought the loader the owner serviced the loader himself changing fluids and visible filters that I could see without taking off any guards. He said replaced them with wix filters. I didn't know this guy from Adam, but I took his word for it. I checked the engine oil dipstick and the oil was black as night. Seemed odd that it was and I asked him about it and he got offended saying I called him a liar! Man, I didn't mean anything by it I swear, It seems with my tractor its the same as well. Just asking was all. But I don't know if he actually went to the extra trouble to change any of the other filters. I saw two new pretty white filters and the glass bowl/strainer for the fuel was changed. I just ordered 3 filters from wix even though I don't know if they have been changed or not. He was up front about the slipping into gear though. Wix 51097 (Transmission Filter) Wix 51092 (Tank) Wix 51513 (Reservoir) Dumb question - What is the difference between a tank and a reservoir?
In my opinion it's all about perspective, a fuel tank gets filled and then the contents gest used up and refilled. A reservior hold it's contents and gets reused again and again, like the hydraulic reservior, but I call them all tanks. Only thing I think of as a reservior is what I usually go boating, but then again also call it a lake. As for someone taking offence at you calling out the black oil and also mentioning the slippage. I see the slippage issue is something you would find on your own so he wants to look like someone not hiding anything. As for the black oil offence, that would make me think he is hiding something and doesn't want you to ask to many questions and look to hard. I bought my track loader from a farmer which told me he just finished digging a big hole with it. Not knowing anything about heavy equipment yet I bought it untried. When trying to load it on the truck the first time we couldn't get it to go in reverse. Managed to get it in with a crow bar, and found other issues after I got it home. Buying equipment I now treat like a car sales men, if there lips are moving their lying until proven otherwise.
Sounds like me! I usually trust everyone until they give me a reason not to. But in the future purchases that require a loan! I will have to be a bit more cautious. I absolutley love the power of this machine though. I gave it about two hours tonight until she started to slip and then called it quits. Found a bunch of gravel on a hillside next to my pond and have been digging bank run. The part that really sucks is I'm working with my buddy that has a dump truck and when the "vdo" doesnt get enough fluid or something it's like it goes out of gear. I have to pump the gas pedal to get it gear and when your two inches away dumping a load into the truck it makes my arse pucker! Worried it will engage and launch into his truck. I do have the manuals for this thing that he gave me and took the floor boards out today to locate the filters. I found the transmission filter on the drivers side and it looks like I have to drop the belly pan to get to the suction screen. As soon as my filters come in I'll give her a shot. The other thing it could be it seems is the charging pump or the converter. All temps stay in the cool zone and never overheats. My bet is either the clogged filter or the charging pump. When I pump the gas pedal at higher rpm's, the VDO engages. Could that be due to more fluid getting pumped or "forced" to the converter? I really wish I had the knowledge and equipment to test the flow rate and pressure.
Welcome to HEF! Does sound like a classic symptom of either a tired pump or convertor...... Do any of the pressure gauges work on the machine? Does the machine drive engage straight away when cold? Is the hesitation when hot happen in REV & FWD? It will be a good idea to check the suction screen & clean it out. Check to see if there are any oil leaks in the suction lines between the charge pump, the suction screen & the transmission - these can cause hesitation also. Not much more you can do more than this without testing equipment......You will need to check some pressures, at least to try to sort this.
Thanks alrman! Yes the pressure gauges work and temp gauges. When it's cold it goes into forward and reverse in high and low ranges almost immediately. As time goes on and it warms up I put it in gear and the vdo gauge looks dead. I hit the gas a couple times and it will squeal for a quick second and start moving. After a longer period of time the vdo gauge will drop to nothing unless I get the rpms back up and will squeal and start moving. I was looking at the book and it said I have to drop the belly pan to get to the suction screen and drain the transmission fluid. I hate to drain all that fluid until my new filters come in but I don't want to mess the machine up further. Thank you for your advise. I looked up the charging pump and converter. Pump is $1000 and converter is $4500! Ouch! Thanks again I'll keep this thread updated as soon as I dive into it. Thanks so far for you guys help
Trans suction screen You should pull it up on some rail road timbers, The trans holds around 15 gallons so have (4) 5 gal buckets with the lids off and ready to catch some oil. I would drop the 2nd and 3rd pans from the rear to gain access. The screen is a wash out screen, you need to catch the contents in a different pan so you can see what is in it. You should install a new o ring on the filter housing, check the hoses that are between tubing sections of the trans sump, filter base, and tube that goes to the charge pump. Hose should be inspected inside and out, for softness and separation, hose clamp should be tight and not striped, o rings under the nut and washer connections should be checked/replaced and tight when system is put back together. You did not say if the pressure gauge on the dash showed a drop and increase in pressure when shifting from F to R when it acts up, or if the gauge stayed in the no pressure until you rev it up and gauge pressure came back, if you are using the brakes to turn the machine or doing a power turn or counter rotation. Are you running the machine in low range or high range, low range is 1st and 3rd, high is 2nd and 4th. You will need to pick up at least a 500psi gauge, and a six foot hose with one end 1/8 pipe thread, the other end 1/4" and a double female 1/4 to hook your gauge up to get some pressure checks. The one issue other that charge pump pressure and flow is the modulator valve, there is a linkage that runs from the valve that trips the oil supply to allow a soft shift, if that mod valve is sticking it could be causing some of your issues along with worn linkage pins and clevises not allowing full detent of the spools in the control valve. The first mod valves had to be shimmed with a special service tool to get the correct setting, the later had a adjusting nut. The control valve is located under the battery box, You would have to remove the center panel at the rear between the fuel and hyd tank, remove the batteries, then remove the plate the batteries sit on. In the top of the valve (Center) you will see a fitting with a hose that runs to the pressure gauge on the dash, there is a small taper screen that can also get trash in it causing some issues, on the side facing the front there is a small fitting that screws into the valve, it has a hole in it no bigger than a ball in the end of a ball point pen that can get a little sliver of trash in it and stop you dead in your tracks. Most of these machines have had the gaskets replaced several times in the control valve if not upgraded to a new valve. In order to test the trans like shown in your service manual with the flow rater, three shut off valves and pipes, fittings and hoses, your parking brake (must work) and you must follow the steps, the machine can take off, cause property damage, and get you hurt. It is the only true way to test the system. You may need to remove the rear counter weight down the road, I would find two 1" bolts around 14" long grade 8 and cut the hex head off them for dowels when removing and installing the weight, easy job with a 6000# crane on a service truck, or forklift, just a heads up incase you get to that point down the road.
If the pressure is dropping off that much with temp, it's not good. This squealing you are hearing, can you isolate where it is coming from, up high in the transmission, - control valve maybe?
Thanks sheepsfoot! Wow, it's amazing how helpful you guys have been to someone you don't even know. I want to thank you in advance for all you help in diagnosing this problem. You guys are truly top notch and have a wealth of knowledge. When shifting from forward to reverse the vdo gauge drops to nothing for a second and then engages. When it's cold it's pretty much right away. After about 2hrs depending on how hard I'm pushing it sometimes It will not engage at all until I give it some throttle. I think the first approach will be the cheapest. Filters should be here Tuesday. I bought the trans filter, tank filter and reservoir. I will inspect all the lines when I have the belly pans off and replace if necessary. If something is leaking the pans do a great job holding the fluid cause its dry underneath. Also wanted to add after it warms up and it's slipping, if I'm sitting still with no rpms the vdo pressure drops to nothing. i will try and grab a pic or two today. it will disengage and I will have to pump the accelerator pedal again. Really sucks trying to load a dump truck on a hill!
Still waiting on filters.. hopefully they will be here today. I did notice another thing on the loader. When I opened up the access panel door on the floor, I shined a light down and noticed a collar or bushing looks like its worn on the driveshaft.
Hey Guys, Started taking the belly pans off yesterday. I've been tied up running the dozer rebuilding our driveway. My buddy brought his 315 trackhoe over and making short work of digging up some bank run. We ran 38 trucks yesterday and 23 trucks the day before. Hopefully I'll be able to get to the loader this week. Suppose to be like 100 degrees today. Fun, fun
ok heres the update. I decided yesterday that I had time to tackle this job. Well, after taking the rest of the pans off yesterday. I had (4) 5 gallon buckets underneath and unscrewed the suction filter housing. out came the fluid. To my surprise there was nothing inside the housing. WTH! The person before me took the filter out and left it out. I took the housing over to a separate bucket and emptied it. There was some crud in it but felt like it was almost a mute point to even check! So while that was draining, I said what the hell and took the 10 or so bolts out of the hydro tank up top to replace those filters inside as well. I felt around inside and found a t-bar that unscrewed one of the filters. When I pulled that up from the hydro lagoon, the filter looked like a package of crescent rolls when you twist them and they pop. The whole side was blown out. Next, I took the panel off to access the main drain plug, since I figured I would just drain the whole tank, cause theres probably an opossum skeleton or something crazy in there. Well, the 3/4" plug was fun to get to. I rigged up a big funnel with a 1" aquarium hose to it thinking I would funnel it down to a 5 gallon bucket. WRONG! It was like someone rigged up some c-4 on the hoover damn. Out she came all over the place, my cell phone, my coke and tools. Oozing it's way to my little garden I planted, I hopped on my tractor with the little backhoe and trenched a drain away from my poor tomato plants. Uh... What a fun day. So now I have to order a $100+ filter, but my question is: If this "tool" before me didn't put a filter in there, I feel like there would be trash in the pump. how would I flush the charging pump? Or when I pulled the filter housing off, would it drain from the pump as well as the transmission? kind of semi-flushing it? Also I purchased the "Shield" Multi-Trac Tractor Hydraulic Fluid the the main reservoir, can I use the same stuff for the transmission when I fill it? I read in the book, and of course they say to use the CASE fluid.
Live & learn Kevin! Sounds like you are not having any fun at all....... If the screen has been left out - & who knows for how long? ...... any trash / metal the transmission has made has gone through the the charge pump. I would be removing it & doing an autopsy on it while the oil is out. I wouldn't expect it to look too healthy. Hope it's not too late....
No fun at all Alrman! I don't think there's anything I can do if I take the pump off except replace the whole pump. If you look on casece the gears inside the charging pump can't b sold seperate of course. I can get a pump for around $900 but would hate to spend that kind of loot if it wasn't the pump. I just can't believe people. Why would someone do that! Maybe the problem started happening and they thought it was lack of flow to the converter and thought by taking the filter out it would help? Who knows. My buddy said he's got a pressure gage and I can try to test. I cleaned the undercarriage out today and wiped down hoses etc. when I get the new filter I'm gonna leave belly pans off and just ride around and see if I can pinpoint t exactly where it is
Should I take the pump apart and try to clean? I'm still wet behind the ears on this stuff. I'm definitely open to suggestions. I guess I need some information on testing the pump. If I can get my hands on a pressure gauge, where do I hook up to? and how do I test?. I don't recall this in the books that I have but I could be wrong. I wish someone had a pump I could try somewhere. I can't afford a $900 assumption right now. I'm open to all suggestions.....
Hey Sheepfoot, If I can't get my buddy's pressure gauge, do you have a pic of one that is built so I can mimic the same build? What brand gauges? Something like this?
Problem with most gear positive displacement pumps is as they starve for fluid they cook themselves for lack of lube. Easy to add .004-.010" clearances and not move enough oil after. I had to replace the steering supply pump on my Allis, $1300 and change , will fit inside a standard coffee can with the lid on and room for more stuff, NOT rebuildable. Previous owner had failed to keep the filters and strainers clean, ate itself after a few days operation. Just pulled a transmission swap from a dead donor tractor for mine, both units the trans hydraulic supply pump had a cracked mounting ear(same position on both probably a weak point), $350 for small pieces and back in business.
Well I drained the last of the fluids from the transmission drain plug and then slid on down to the torq converter. I saw what looked like the drain plug and unscrewed the plug. Yeah two stout springs popped out along with the fluid. It took every ounce of strength to screw that thing back in. Live and learn. So reading the book I came across section 6013 for the transmission and it refers to section 6012. To my surprise there was no 6012. I guess the previous owner took it out when he was probably diagnosing this same problem. I believe 6012 is the section on how to test the charge pump. Does anyone have a copy of this section?
Yeah DMiller. That little pump is a costly one! It amazes me that you can't get aftermarket gears etc for rebuilding the pump. I guess there's not enough demand
Well, I went up to Ashland, VA to Lawrence Equipment. I love that place. The service is top notch, even though I didn't leave without spending $546!!! That TCH fluid is crazy expensive! Anyway, the service tech talked with me and went over a couple things I should try. one of them was to replace the o-rings on the suction filter housing. (One on each line) and I guess the intake of the charging pump. I got the suction filter housing and lines off last night and after finally getting the nut backed off and taking the lines(pipe) off, the o-rings were almost gone they were so dry-rotted. I got them replaced and moved on to the charging pump.....No taco getting that line off the pump. I had to unbolt the pump from the converter and then disconnect the transmission filter line going to the convert just to get it down. Had to put that beast in a vise to get the o-ring out of that pipe, but she was definitely gone too. Got them all replaced and called it a night. I'm wondering if I need to use teflon tape on the pipe threads? Any suggestions cause once I tighten the pipe up, she ain't goin nowhere when I bolt it back up. Theres no room to get a damn wrench on that fitting. I need a set of slim wrenches. Also took the pieces of huge hose about 4 inches long and 6 inches long off and they look pretty rough. I wonder if NAPA sells that hose. I'll try and take some pics. I did look at the charging pump and it doesn't have any play in the gear and spins smoothly..... Now just to get the gear lined back up...lol
Oh yeah the other things to look at were some valve on top of the tranny. "Modulator valve" maybe... that goes up to the dash. and the orifice tube next to it on the tranny. Looks like I will have to take the seat out...
My 1155 has had problems like yours.There was a broken spring on range orifice in back of control valve.Another time air entering suction line to pump which you have already talked about.The noise you are hearing are most likely clutches.Also had trash in hole in modulator orifice one time that caused that same problem.
Hey Wolfe, thanks for the reply. After about an hour or so the vdo starts to lose pressure. When you put in gear you can feel the tranny engage just no pressure until you pump the accelerator. I went to Lawrence equipment and bought all the filters. Transmission, suction line, and both hydraulic filters for the tank. I drained and changed all oil in transmission, converter, and tank. I replaced the o rings for the suction filter and the one on the torq converter pump. I unscrewed the modulator valve on the valve body to check the little filter and it was torn so i wouldn't think there would be a restriction there. I also took the orifice out of the valve body and cleaned. I also changed the two big hoses. One on the suction line going to the tranny and the other on the suction side of the torq pump. When it started acting up tonight I noticed the drive shaft didn't engage right away it seems like to me it would be something with charging pump, converter or valve body but this is my first piece of equipment so I'm still wet behind the ears! You can hear it screech when it try's to build up pressure on the vdo gauge. Does it in all ranges hi low for and rev. I posts several threads on the net with no solid suggestions. I hope it's not the converter. Also When i took the orifice out I couldn't find the piece that goes in the back. O-ring-->plug-->spring-->roll pin-->piece missing or couldn't get out.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdQjHcekCn8
Kevin - what area is this "screech" coming from? I asked this earlier....... up high in transmission? Valve maybe?
It's hard to tell cause if you watch the video it's not screeching at all just sometimes. Only when I have to give it throttle when there is no pressure will it screech. I'll try and listen closer
The control valves sometime blow gaskets & I have heard them "buzz" before, but never "screech". The sound was made by oil pressure being lost through the blown area...... Just like when you blow through a leaf or a piece of paper between your thumbs ....... maybe that's an Aussie thing ........ :beatsme :drinkup
ha! Yeah Aussie and southern! I use to pick big blades of grass and play a tune or two! When I unbolted the "death spring" that holds the triangular plate that holds the orifice in, I did notice the gasket around that was torn so I put some permTex on it. I also notice there should be a stud on the left back corner of the housing. It's not there an empty bolt hole! How hard is it to replace all the gaskets I. The.control valve? Is there a way to test. Kind of like on an intake you can spray some carb cleaner in it to find an air leak.
Not terribly hard to replace the gaskets - they are a genuine Case purchase. There are alot of hoses that will need to removed & they will need to go back exactly right or you will have more drive issues.
Kevin,Sounds like the range orifice spool you could not get out.I used a long bolt with magnet to pull it out.Also when you said the screen was torn /modulator filter,there is a small hole in valve body to modulator orifice that could be stopped up since screen was torn.Are you sure the pump is not sucking air from any where? I have had that problem before also.
Hey Wolfe, So the Range orifice spool could possibly be sticking or something?....I had a pick in there and didn't feel anything. When I took the triangular plate off, should the orifice had been under pressure enough to push everything out? Is there a way to check if the pump for sucking air? Also Is it ok to blow air into the valve modulator orifice? I don't want to damage anything.
Kevin,The orifice spool is not under pressure,the spring & roll pin should come out first.Blowing air will not get it out, I tried!!!The way I got it out was with a magnet attached to a bolt.Other than removing control valve.Have you checked seal rings on transmission shafts.Also it should have that filter screen in place.I had to take my control valve off and apart to remove a piece of o-ring from that hole in the valve body one time.Is there any leakage any where around control valve?Was there much trash in trans. pressure filter? Also if seal rings are cracked it can send fluid to two gears at once.
forgot something I think your on to something Wolfe! When I took the Nut and adapter off the valve to service the little filter. There wasn't much left of the o-ring. It was dry rotted to almost nothing. So it looks like a tear down is in order?? I'm a little nervous! I guess I'll throw some different color paint on the hoses and their respected fittings so I'll know where they go. Also I did notice some iffy looking hoses that the rubber is cracked going to the Control valve. We are almost done with the driveway, so as soon as that is finished I plan on removing the Control valve and taking apart completely. Is there any surprises when unbolting this thing from the tranny? Disconnect the valves from their linkages, disconnect the hoses, unbolt from tranny? Thanks again! Thank you for all your help. I really think your onto something with the dry rotted oring. I really don't think it's the converter or the pump. I would think the converter would just go out and the pump looked good when I looked at it but hard to tell. I think the issue is definitely coming from the control valve. Forgot to answer your other questions.... Leakage around the control valve..... I didn't see any recent wetness, but the thing was Dirty as hell. Didn't see much trash in the filters...No metal.... Couple globs of goo thats it...
Kevin,If you decide to remove weight to check seal rings.I block up the weight then use bottle jack under hitch on weight,then pull the loader away from it.Then install in reverse order,be very careful doing it that way!!!Sometimes the caps over the shafts have a deep groove from the seal rings.I had mine bored and rebuilt by a shop up north.They looked new.Pressure wash valve so no dirt goes in trans.That hole in valve body is very small.Might as well put new shaft seals while you have it off.Its heaver than it looks.The pump wear shows up more on front and back plates.The converter has nothing to do with clutches not going in gear.Also make sure that lock nut on pump o-ring is tight;I have used a punch,not good nut.Hope you get if fixed,Its a pleasure to run when its right.I have a lot of parts connections.
Sounds good. I m gonna try to rebuild the control valve first. The guy I bought it from told me he rebuilt the tranny and told me if I take the weight off the back to use something stout to support it or I will snap something off when it drops. A shaft or something... Anyways, I looked at the overhaul kit from case of course they want $300 for gaskets and o-rings and a couple other parts. Man if they aren't making a killin! I wish I could find an aftermarket kit or something. Oh well bite the bullet I guess. I'll probably take the control valve off next after the 4th and such. I've got 5 kids and they keep me busy! I'll probably have 6 if I do t keep workin on the loader have a safe 4th and god bless you!
Quick update So I got underneath again and noticed a hose was wet. It's about a 1" hydraulic hose that goes from the left side of the converter to the transmission. It's not the charging pump side but the pressure side I suppose. Just a small sweat leak. Also the pressure regulator that has a valve going into the converter has a very light sweat leak. If you saw the video you notice it always seems to go in reverse just fine but still seems slow compared to other powershifts I've driven. Should I stay the course of the control valve? Or should I replace this small piece of hose that is leaking? The charge pump side looks dry where o-rings are. Looks like a good seal. If I replace this hose I'm sure I'll take another hydraulic bath
I think that hose is converter drain to transmission.Mine has hose clamps on that hose.if hole in control is clogged it would not go in any gear very well.I would check seal rings before I took off control valve.They are not very costly.Sounds like you are losing fluid going to clutches.But the modulator does control fluid when you go from forward to reverse.I don't know if I'm helping you or not!!!!!!
No! You are helping me big time. I just worry about taking that counter weight off. I don't know how much it weighs but I don't think I have anything that will hold its weight. I have a new holland tc55da with a backhoe but I think that counter weight is more than it can handle. So these seals are right behind the counterweight. Why couldn't it have been a dirty filter lol!
There are two in front 1st & 2nd for each track.Three in rear hi range/lo range under center cover,forward & reverse for each track under other two covers.I block the weight very good then drive loader away from it.You can call me 336-3763038 after 8:00
I only just saw your video Kevin. I don't think you problem is the gaskets in the control valve. Wolfe's suggestion of the seal rings on the fwd/rev shafts is probably the first place to look. Does your machine have a linkage between the modulator & brake pedal? If it does, try running it with linkage disconnected from the modulator.
Thanks a bunch guys. So the theory is when the fluid warms up inside the tranny it's leaking past the seals. Forward seal more so than reverse. And it's all internal so I'm not seeing what's happening. I told my buddy with a cat 307 mini he said he would bring it over if I needed. I like the idea of blocking it up just worried it might fall or kids playing around it. I'll read up some more in the book so I know what I'm looking at. Thanks again. I will not give up!!
So are you referring to the two clutches in the back shown in this picture? I'm guessing these are what you are talking about. And there are internal seals inside this housing that go around a shaft or valve of some sort. I'm still looking at the book trying to locate these so I can see a breakdown and what to expect. Thanks again. Sorry if the picture is too big. I hope I didn't break any rules.
There are two seal rings under each cover,three under center cover,fluid goes through hole in shaft in between seal rings,comes out in between seal rings in clutch housing to engage clutches.Center cover is hi range/lo range.Also two more in front of trans.1st.& 2nd. for each track.These rings are steel.When you take off cover they will stay on shaft unless they are broken in to.They are broke sometimes where they snap together to lock in groove on shaft.
Ok. Yeah, I found the chapter and diagrams I was looking for. I was looking last night and I saw the exploded view of the clutches and how to rebuild them. They have a wavy ring, teflon seals, etc. I also saw the two seals you are referring to. Good to know your just talking about the seals in the front. From looking at the diagrams, I saw they used a press with a piston ring compressor to press down while they took the snap ring off. I guess the bearings are also in plain view when I take the caps off so I can inspect them too. Would it also be a good idea to blow compressed air through the hole in the shaft to clean out? I'll take plenty of pics when I am able to get another person to help me with the counterweight. Looks like it's 3000# I don't suppose you have a picture of the weight blocked up? I also have to go and buy a decent bottle jack. Thanks for all of your help!
Hey Wolfe, Looks like part #2 are the ones you are talking about..... Have a safe 4th!
Kevin.You have a safe 4th. too.We will be working our Weekend job.We have a winery/Wolfe Wines.And yes those are the rings.Hope that is your problem.If the caps have a deep groove I will find the name of the place that rebuilt mine.The caps a very costly.You could check the ones in front first The ones in rear have shims try not to tear them!!! As for the weight mine only weighs 2900#Ha! Ha! I got it off and on one with my 850 and chain but it was not easy to get it close cause of canopy.As for blocking its easy to take off but you have to be very careful going back need help to guide you.If you are on concrete slab its safer.I still would not want anyone hanging it!!I use 6 by 6 wood blocks and steel shims on each side as close as I can to front,then a 20 ton bottle jack under hitch with blocking back up!!Make everything good and tight loosen all bolts a little bit first to make sure it don't move.Mine has always sat there very well.A forklift would be safer!Let me know if I can help .
One last question Wolfe before I tackle this. Would it be better to take the hitch off so I would have full access to the bottom of the weight, and would probably be easier to block up. Is that what you did when you did yours? I bet the winery was packed this past weekend!:usa
Kevin,I did not take off hitch,that is where I put my jack right near the pin hole.The weight of the weight is towards the back so the hitch provides leverage.I will try to make a drawing and send it.The weight is the worst part of the job.You could unhook one of the lines at control valve that goes to the cover then put it in gear to send fluid to the other line on that cover and see if there is any fluid going past seal rings to unhooked line, with tracks blocked of course.If you have a Case parts book it tells what lines are what.Like take off left forward line at control valve, then put machine in left reverse.
Well good news! My buddy showed up yesterday with his Mini and looks like were all set for taking it off today. Just going to run a cable through the center hole and unbolt from there. Should be straight forward. I feel more comfortable having something that will hold the weight of it now. Looks like I need another piece of equipment! I'll let you know the results. I plan on taking all the caps off and checking everything while I have the weight off just to button up everything that could be wrong. I'll take some pics of the caps too and let you know if they are grooved or not. Thanks bud.
Counter weight off, pressure washed tear down tomorrow
I took the caps off the left and right caps and the metal seals were fine. I didn't take the center one off yet. Do you think I need to check the center seals and the ones on the front too?
Here it is with the counter weight off and pressure washed
Seals Kevin, I would pull them since the weight is off, you need to pull the front two caps and check. The gasket is preset for those caps, when you remove the rear caps upper and before installing you should bump the shaft to the front, then install the cap and tighten to spec with out the shim pack, use a feeler gauge to check the clearance and adjust shims as needed. I always use red locktite on the shims and gaskets, use new copper washers. The H/L range end cap when removed needs to also be shimmed, you need to set the end play on the shaft with a dial gauge for correct clearance while setting it up, once set up remove and apply red locktite to the shims and new copper washers tighten down to spec and recheck end play on the shaft. I still think your mod valve has issues, did you ever unhook the mod rod and try shifting to see if the pressure stayed up. A pic of your control valve looking down at the mod valve would help, is it the old style mod or new. Haven't had much time lately to be on line much, but your vid of you shifting looks like the mod valve is having some issues.
Hey Sheepfoot, thank you for the response. I just came inside from working on it. It was every bit of 98 degrees with 90% humidity. I didn't see this post before I put the caps back on. I'm glad you told me. Do you know what section or page the reference for the clearance for the shims are? I will look again. The book is rather large and intimidating lol! Also, how in the world do you get to the front caps? I just took the seat off hoping there would be right there....nope. I got underneath and was looking up and can see them but is going to be hell to get to. I also can't get the front caps as clean as I did the rear. When I took the center cap off the rear the metal seals were fine. I'm guessing the grooves in the seals where there is a gap don't have to be off centered like piston rings do but I did anyway. So when I take the caps off the rear again, push the shaft to it's forward most position and torq to spec without the shims and use a feeler gauge to check the clearance between the cap and the housing. replace with new copper washers. Check... When you said use locktite on the shims, I'm assuming you mean like the permatex gasket sealer but the locktite brand... I keep thinking locktite as in for bolts.. ha! I can take a few pics looking down at the control valve no problem. I just have to take the batteries out and the tray again, which I should to replace all the hoses anyway. I could unhook the modulator detent or rod but I would have to run the loader until it starts acting up. I wish it acted up right away. Every time I need to test a fix I have to go dig dirt for an hour or so, but I even noticed that when I first start it and put in gear it does take a few seconds for the pressure to build up, maybe 5 seconds.... and then it's fine until an hour or so. I would have thought last week when it has hot as hades it would have acted up sooner, cause the fluid would get hotter faster but it was the same as any other day..... It must be strictly a pressure thing or the modulator valve timing.... Thanks again. I appreciate everyone's suggestions and guidance. Really helps me learn about this machine and can pass along the knowledge to my kids when they inherit this old beast!
Ok, I found what you were talking about in the book with checking the feeler gauge and the torq specs. One question I have is when you check end play with the dial indicator at the end of the shaft the shaft movement inward and outward is suppose to be .016 - .020. I'm assuming that's what that means.Looks like the torque specs are 35 - 42ftlbs for the end caps.
I'll take a pic tomorrow, but searching the web, I found this pic from a distance it looks like the same one as this 1455b. Don't know if this helps or not, if the old style is similar to the new style or not...
trans H/L shaft end play Yes, Kevin with a indicator on the end of shaft pull it out then in to get the correct free movement. Add or subtract shims as needed. The shim pack that is on there should be close, we would check the reading before removing the H/L housing to see how close it is to start with. saves some time. You have to have that clearance. Getting back to the delay, the thing is it's both tracks, the common issue is the mod unseats to make the soft shift but the plunger does not return to seat and allow pressure to build back so it will move. It seems like it's either sticking and the rev throws just a little more pressure at it to force it to seat. Did you ever hook a gauge in at the inlet to the control valve fitting and have a pressure reading in the cab with you, it would be good to know if your loosing your in flow from the pump when this happens. The issue with the pic is the type of mod you have, adjustable external nut or none external adjustment that has to be shimmed with a weight block ?.
Hey Sheepfoot, I didn't have a chance to take the battery tray off. It was pouring rain yesterday and I didn't have time, but today I went out to check the shims out to make sure they are close. So I unbolted the caps, took the shims out and put cap back on and torqued to 5ft lbs, loosened bolts, and reapplied 2.5ft lbs to each. It called for inch lbs but I don't have a torq wrench for inch lbs. I have an antique craftsman.. lol. Anywho, I came up with about .026 on the feeler gauge. The book says to add .016-.020. So at most I would be .046 with shims... Both the upper left and right caps were the same assuming the torque was the same on all bolts... here are the pics of the left and right shims... one is .046 and the other is .073. Pictures might be upside down. I also attached an image of one of the caps and front of control valve. I can get you the valve from the top tomorrow. Seems like there is a big difference in the two sides of shims, but was probably ok to begin with...
Hey Sheepfoot, Heres a pic of the control valve and the modulator. I think your question was can I disconnect it and It looks like I can. Just a cotter pin and the rod. I need to run up to northern tool and get a pressure gauge and get a hose built so I can check some pressures. I buttoned up all three caps tonight with gasket sealer and torqued all bolts back down. I still need to check the front caps if you think I should.
Hey Sheepfoot, Should I just unhook the control valve rod and go ride around and see if it does the same thing? Since I am new to this. The modulator valve just regulates the oil to go into gear. With it disconnected will it move at all? Sorry for the really dumb questions, I just don't have any experience with this. Thanks for hangin in there and being a trooper! I'm still going to make a gauge, but they got us on some stupid pay scale and seems like I don't get paid very often..Funds low if ya know what I mean. I'm sure I'm getting the same look as I give my kids when they say something that disregarded the entire thought process! LOL!
Yes, unhook the rod at the mod valve, may have to do both ends so it does not jam on something. I was looking at your picks and you have the newer mod valve that you can adjust without the weight to shim it. Was waiting to see if you had a gauge made up to check some pressures while running. I know it's a pain in the butt with the seat/batteries/plate to keep moving. We had a tube frame seat made up along with a frame to hold the batteries that could be mounted on the rear with two 1/0 cables about 6' long to leave hooked up to the main battery posts so you could test and not have to do all that take out and put back on stuff. We had tried to get you to unhook the rod early and test for the mod sticking and not allowing it to build the pressure back, that little extra surge of rpms or oil will sometimes make that spool and spring tension pop that spool back and allow the pressure to build back. With it unhooked run the machine, be careful and don't do any hard F/R shifting at high rpms, let it come to a stop then shift. You will more than likely need to remove the mod on the front side and plunger to inspect, later if the pressure stays up. we will give you some more info later, but try it with the rod unhooked first. Really need some gauge sets to be able to watch pressures at different areas. Once again the flow rater is the best way to check it out, then if not avalible some different gauge setups so pressures can be watched. I am sure several are wanting to help you but some of these checks have to be done to know where we are at. We would like to say change the pump, rebuild the control valve and on and on but that mod valve does a lot and can drive you nuts along with a little piece of trash.
No Problem Sheepfoot. I completely understand to follow your instructions to a T, this is all new to me and would not disagree or challenge anything you or anyone else has said. I am trying to follow all recommendations that everybody tells me, but some are easy than others. Removing the counterweight was a big step for me believe it or not. I am fully capable of doing everything, just never give myself credit and worry that I will mess something up more than it already is and nothing is cheap to fix. I removed the caps on the back side and checked everything you told me and retorqd according to the book. I've been looking at gauges and so forth and looks like the one at northerntool should do the trick. Just need to get the correct fittings, etc... that you have already explained and build one. I'll post back when I get the gauge made. The ones on the internet are ridiculous! I like your idea about the cables! Those batteries are freakin heavy! Every time I have to check something or look at something then test, I have had to remove the plate and the batteries by myself. I have been pulling my tractor over and sliding both batteries out into the bucket. What a PITA! I REALLY APPRECIATE all your help! Everyone's help! God Bless!
fellow 1450B owner Kevin, My name is John, I am new to this forum and new to owning a Case 1450B, since you own the exact same machine I thought we could discuss, and maybe I could get somepointers from you. I assume there is a way to IM you put I don't think I have enough privilidges yet, if you get a chance, please email me at [email protected] with contact info. Thanks, John
I'm back everyone. Ok. Me and my buddy over Thanksgiving break ran the loader until it started acting up again,moved it to the shop, took out the batteries while it was running and unhooked the modulator valve. Unhooking the modulator valve did absolutely nothing....At all. He stood in the back and was looking/holding the rod of the valve and the rod we disconnected it from and neither of them moved while shifting into any combinations of hi/low/rev/for etc... Made no difference. Sounds very strange.... ok now I'm really lost. Where is the rod connected to the modulator valve go? I sat there and went through all the ranges of high/low/etc... brakes, etc.. and that rod did not move whatsoever.. Sorry guys I'm lost. I was thinking everytime I went into some gear/range this rod would bump causing there to be a "cushion" to the transmission to sooth the transition to the desired gear. Can someone help?
1450b case crawler tractor. Is the transmission the same as the 1450? Our 1450b does the exact same thing. Is the tranny the same in a 1450? We know where there is a good one as a pipe layer and we could part it out
hey tractortodd yeah i still have the same problem with it. My gmail is [email protected] . I still have my counterweight off and there is a serial number on the transmission I can get you. I thing the converter is the same too